Cloned Boy
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DISPUTES ON CARDING FORUMS.
Sergey Pavlovich talked to everyone's favorite guest in a mask about disputes or as they are commonly called "arbitrations" on shadow forums.
What is arbitration, how is it conducted, what goals does it pursue, what skills should an arbitrator have, what are the rules of conduct in arbitration, what divorce schemes exist in arbitrations, interesting arbitrations - this and much more in the issue.
Enjoy reading!
Contents:
Introduction.
Pavlovich:
Friends, hello! Multichel is back in the studio, aka Mr. Vendetta. And today we'll talk about a more specialized issue, about how arbitrations are conducted, proceedings between scammers and just some incomprehensible situations on forums, how they are resolved, whether the forum administration is involved and in whose favor they are most often made and naturally this is about dark forums, so don't switch over, it will be interesting.
About regular courts.
Multichel:
Hello. The first 2-3 minutes I will first talk about offline, that is, not about dark forums, I will say the first paradoxical thing that I did not know before. Our district courts and judges turn out to be wildly overloaded with work. Recently I needed a consultation with a judge, my friend, she is a relative and when I asked for a meeting, we agreed that we would pick her up from work.
We picked her up from work at 15-10 in the evening. According to her, the next morning, by 8 am, she had to go to work and again, according to her, she does this every day. She smelled a little, out of interest, I went to read reviews about this court and saw that people who participated in her trial repeatedly wrote in their reviews that the judge smelled a little of alcohol.
Is this a criminal judge? Yes, it was very funny, I needed to get advice, I got it, but the person who works in our court, I mean the Russian Federation, it turns out that he comes to work at 8 am and actually leaves work, I saw this with my own eyes, at 3-10 pm, and this continues for him every day, that is, our court is busy with work, I did not know this before.
What kind of preamble is this, he said quietly. How problems are solved in the shadow sector, but not in the darknet, but, say, in ordinary real life.
A story about a manual drop.
Multichel:
I saw the story I'm going to tell with my own eyes, maybe it will burn me a little bit about the city-location. The gist of the story is this. There was a white cashier, in order to do cashing, he had to issue bank cards to a bunch of young people.
He saved money, he issued them very inexpensively, he paid only 1000 rubles for each card, and the person who issued the card in his name had to be in touch so that he could go to the bank, pull out the stuck funds, get some paper. Manual drop.
Manual, absolutely, there were a lot of them, since the cashier had very good volumes, then, accordingly, between him and the drop there was a gap of two or three people, that is, to whom one command was transmitted, the cashier did not know the next one, that is, the drop itself. The drops looked very young, very cheap, but huge amounts passed through them.
One of the topics, when they used to do cashing, it was through deposits. And here's the gist of it, that the group would call him once every two weeks, every three weeks and say, listen, Ivan, you need to go to the bank and do, here's a piece of paper, do it, send money there. That is, it was a normal, familiar procedure, a friend would get a conditional thousand rubles for this, and it was nothing surprising. And then this Ivan gets another call, so and so, tomorrow you need to go to Alfa-Bank, that is, fill out the papers and send the money that you have in your deposit, there.
A young man came for him by taxi, as far as I understand, they arrived, and at the bank, to my great surprise, for some reason they didn't pay attention to the discrepancy between the amounts and the person's appearance. Well, that is, in this case, a person there under 21 in sneakers for 500 rubles, physically could not have the amount, but as far as I understand, at that time there was an amount of about 7 million in the warehouse.
In general, in short, there is also a rule in the bank that you can't be alone, that is, each person must be alone. I mean, no one should accompany Dropa, because in addition to the bank employees, there are cameras watching, and this is kind of visible, obviously, this is a generally accepted rule. Dropa gives instructions before going to the bank, and a person hangs around the bank, waiting for him when everything is over.
Here it turned out that he did what he was instructed to do, sent 7 million to the necessary details, the next morning he was woken up by bearded men of the Dagestani with the question, where did you send our money. Well, not theirs specifically, that is, it was the roof of the cashier. They grabbed him by the scruff of the neck, took him to a secluded dark place. He obviously swore, swore that he didn't touch it. It was obvious that he didn't touch it, but just in case, having intimidated him, they took a receipt from him for this amount.
Despite the fact that he didn't even have money for travel. And here, as it were, a receipt that you owe several million rubles. Here. And so he asked me for advice through his friends about this problem, what to do and how. I outlined two ways to solve it. The first way to solve it, that is, you invest it yourself, let's try to follow the path of the person who screwed you over.
That is, it is obvious that someone got involved in this chain between the cashier and these two or three drop-off operators, and knowing that there is money there, and knowing how everything happens, that is, he simply called you from a random number, you don't know this person, he took you to a taxi, he gave you those details, well, that is, they screwed you over in Nalchik. Usually, he could have been in the spotlight somewhere, for example, he ordered a taxi from his number or was sitting in a taxi near an Alfa-Bank branch, for example, was under a video camera, went out to smoke, well, that is, there are recordings from the camera, well, that is, if
invest some money there, then by tracking his route you could find him there, for example, with his SIM card, well, that is, here is the SIM card from which he called you, and next to him is a working phone. Well, that is, track the routes for money, there for 100, 200, there are thousands of rubles, for me it was all real. This is the first option. But the guy came with the fact that he had no money at all. Well, that is, no money for travel. So, I say, well, there is a second option, there are people who are trying to solve such problems, I stupidly sent him to him.
The task of these people turned out to be not what I expected, I naively thought that they would still decide to make money, help, well, so that everyone would be happy. But their task was also to cheat him out of a certain amount so that he would pay for legal services and, most importantly, so that he would write a statement to the police. At the same time, this statement did not save him, but with the help of this statement, as I understand it, they tried to influence the cashier and try to get money from him.
Well, this is my opinion, again. The mother of this drop herself eliminated herself, saying that God will help. The most interesting position turned out to be correct. So, the cops for a very long time and strenuously did not accept the statement and still did not accept it. But the information that the person goes, tries to report, he did not come to the district department, but to the police department that deals with banditry organized by criminal groups.
In general, the ending is that, in my opinion, in addition to this money, others were stolen, that is, the amount was not 7 million, but much more, and, in general, the situation resolved. - I still do not understand who stole in the end.
– I don’t know who stole it, but it was just one of the droppers, knowing how it works, that you can call a drop from a fake number, and the drop is ready to go to the bank, that is, he called, introduced himself as Vasya, you need to carry out such-and-such an assignment, that’s all, that is, the money was gone out of nowhere, the amount, I repeat, is decent, and from what I heard from rumors, it was much more than this amount, well, they found it, then he crossed paths with these guys a couple of times, well, with the Dagestani roof, well, that is, hello-hello on the street, that is, there were no problems with him, the situation resolved itself, well, it’s just exactly how it all happens in the shadow segment, I described it to you approximately, that is, he stole, bearded men come, somehow try to solve it using technical means, track it by video camera and something else, but nothing was done. This is regarding such a story offline.
What is arbitration?
Multichel:
Now I will try to tell you interestingly about arbitrations, about the darknet segment, how it all happens in the Darknet using the example of several of the most common sites, such as Rutor, Darkmoney, Duplicate, Probiv and WWH. And I want to say one thing, that if there are many arbitrations on a site, it means that the site is alive.
That is, if you go in, somehow, search and find some shady site and see that there are no arbitrations, it means that there is no action there. And once upon a time in the Darknet there was a man with the nickname Shakh-mat, he had something strange, he liked to catalog everything, and at one point he discovered that six and a half thousand different services were working in the Darknet segment at the same time.
Some draw documents, some steal money, some provide Tuscany, that is, six and a half thousand of some services. And accordingly, when there are many services, some misunderstandings or scams are sure to occur, and such situations are resolved by arbitrations. That is, each forum has an arbitration section, it is at the very bottom. And from what you see in arbitration, in principle, you can immediately understand what kind of forum it is.
For what reasons do they open arbitration on shadow forums.
Multichel:
That is, if on Rutor they mainly deal with a find, a failure to deliver a large batch of drugs, or the fact that an exchanger that specializes in drugs, in these cases, did not transfer something there, is there a Duplicate of everything, is there dark money, there, for example, mainly, of course, financial claims that either the drop was carried out, or the cashing service did not pay, is there WWH, where there are most arbitrations, there is everything, the most interesting, by the way, is the WWH section, if you look at it like that.
If you just quickly run through the arbitrations, well, with a quick glance, you, for example, can understand the pricing policy for different goods.
Pavlovich:
But this is already clear from the ad, for example, this seller.
Multichel:
Well, for example, the current one, evasion of military service. They are trying to decide how, they make an HIV certificate, but so that it is recorded on state services. The cost of this service fluctuates around 150 thousand rubles. It's just that one of the arbitrations that is currently going on Darkman is connected precisely with this topic, that theoretically everything has been done, the certificate is there.
And in the conditional place where he received it, it is checked, but on state services it is not checked, and the person cannot show it, present it at his military registration and enlistment office.
Pavlovich:
Well, it turns out that he did not receive the service, if it was initially agreed that it should be checked on state services. Right?
Multichel:
In his case, he initially agreed on this, but the essence of probably 30-50% of arbitrations is that the details are not discussed. But in his case, he will most likely win, because the service was provided, there is obviously not completely, it is just that a fairly authoritative service is against him, it is unlikely that the forum administration will somehow put pressure on it, most likely they will say "return the money".
Having glanced, that is, at some arbitrations it becomes clear where what, how much it costs, how relevant some prices are, that is, this is such a market. If we take the popular resource dark money, a significant number of arbitrations are not arbitration, but are an application for receiving money from the guarantor, that is, two people conduct some kind of transaction, the seller sold, the buyer received but does not write to the guarantor that everything is completed, everyone is happy and, accordingly, the money is hanging, the guarantee and the seller writes, that is, he is trying to get this money, it differs from other forums where everything is somehow more automated, that is, 2-3 days have passed since the transaction, there, from the date of the guarantor, the money is automatically paid, that is, Darkmoney is not very convenient in this regard.
What goals do people pursue when opening arbitration.
Multichel:
What goals and sanctions do people usually pursue in arbitration?
First. Ban the offender. Well, that is, you were screwed, deceived, and out of resentment or in order to prevent further screwing, out of a sense of revenge, a person writes an arbitration and in 99% of cases even without any special evidence, because the defendant does not show up. That is, the ban occurs simply due to the defendant's failure to appear, that is, a person writes, explains the situation, the defendant does not show up, 2-3 days pass, he is banned.
The second option, does the defendant have any deposit on this forum, for example, a deposit of 100 thousand rubles. If you were deceived by this user, you write an arbitration, it is considered and if it is proven that you are right, you claim to split the deposit, but in the sense that usually you are not the only one who is deceived and with a deposit of, say, 100 thousand, there are 3, 4 or 5 claimants to it and often the amount of claims is much higher, well, for example, a million, half a million, and the deposit is 100 thousand.
That is, the second goal is to saw off the deposit, I also want to say that the ban of a scammer on some forum is not automatically transferred to other forums, absolutely not transferred, but to remain unnoticed on large forums, if you are banned on a large forum, to continue working on others in general will not work. Well, that is, you may have a day, two, three, that is, someone will definitely write.
Arbitration on one of the guests of our channel.
Multichel:
At the same time, forums have mutual respect, but still there are situations, like for example, you had a user Vasily 80 at an interview, forgery of documents, he had a situation with the forum prov, as I understand it because of some trifling amount, in my opinion 20 thousand rubles plus or minus, that is, clearly not his level, he is much higher, but on this forum, accordingly, he is banned, he has a wild reputation there, and they automatically think that he should be banned everywhere, as a scammer, but on other forums they do not think so.
Accordingly, if something ever happens on another forum and they try to duplicate this status on Probiva, they also understand that we did not recognize it there, they may not recognize it here either, but all the same, the information spreads.
Arbitration scams.
Multichel:
Now I will tell you, as it seems to me, funny stories that are happening now.
My evaluative judgment, evaluative, evaluative, that this is a 60 to 40 production. But the point is this, on the DarkMoney forum there is a seller who sold all the cards in the world that he could get his hands on, debit cards.
He posted in 2020, he has a deposit, that is, the amount that he put as collateral on the forum 500 thousand rubles and now suddenly quite a lot of arbitrations went to him, but for such amounts there are 500 dollars, 1200 dollars, there 200 thousand rubles and here is one of the arbitrations for the amount of 3 million. And as I already said at the beginning of the issue, when the deposit is divided, it is divided among all the victims who proved that they are victims, precisely in proportions.
Accordingly, here it turns out that if this person is recognized as a scammer, then the one who lost 500 dollars will receive, well, I say conditionally, 5 dollars in damages, but the one who has now filed a lawsuit for 3 million will most likely receive 1450-1470 from the deposit. Therefore, I assume that in this situation, the service that shows damages of 3 million is the same scammer.
That is, he filed a lawsuit against himself. If this is so, when the service is recognized as a scammer for 500 thousand, since he scammed everyone, and they will saw off the deposit, then accordingly this lion's share of 470 thousand will go to the one who showed that the damage was 3 million.
Pavlovich:
That is, get your own money back, take it from the forum.
Multichel:
Of course. There he had three options for action. The first is the stupidest, that is, to show this damage and show it just for the hell of it, it is possible. The second option is that he, for example, for a week or five days pretended to be doing something, that is, he fabricated correspondence and really sent money to the details that everyone knows, this five-hundred-thousand-ruble scammer, and it is easy to prove.
Well, that is, it is simply easy to prove. This is the option, I would not fall for it, but if he is initially a thoughtful guy and he really started fabricating correspondence in private messages three months ago, some of these payments, well, to prepare a discount for the forum administration, there will be nothing left to do but fall for this operation of this then competent and thoughtful person, and it turns out that he scammed people with impunity and, accordingly, did not lose the deposit.
How they will fight such a scheme in the future, I do not know. But here again it depends on the thoughtfulness of the person, that is, if in advance, several months in advance, understanding how he will act, he will show some movement between them and it will become clear that the connection between them is commercial for large sums, and he does not lose anything, not a ruble, by transferring between them. Let's say, from Sberbank to T-Bank he drives 100 thousand allegedly for payment of goods and accordingly conducts such correspondence that I bought five T-Bank cards from you there.
Around arbitration, in addition to real victims, swindlers and others, there is also a quasi-swindler market. And it is also quite funny, and what I will say now, perhaps, will keep some of our viewers, headlong, to climb into this market, well, as some kind of participant. For example, it means someone wants to engage in cashing out something.
Well, that is, to be that very casher who withdraws money from an ATM. This is his job. That is, every day, for example, 1 million rubles are poured into his bank cards, which are personal or he bought somewhere. He gets, for example, 10 percent from this, there are 100 thousand. But since this continues every day, then, accordingly, he has a very large income.
In order for him to be able to work like this, he must make a deposit. That is, he writes off to the person who will pour, let's call him a watering can, a pourer, a watering can, it doesn't matter, and writes off to the guarantor of the forum. After that, the money, the deposit, this 100, 200 or 300 thousand, it does not hang in his personal account, that is, it does not apply to all his activities, but he goes only to work
with this pourer, that is, he goes to the guarantor of this forum, for example, 300 thousand rubles were put into the guarantor of this forum, only part-time work with this person, with the pourer, this same pourer, this same pourer is usually a know-it-all, that is, this is a person there with one or two messages, he does not have any deposit because they do not need it, that is, he just stupidly registered the same account, so this pourer cannot pour from some normal merch, but pours from where the block will be automatic, fast enough.
Accordingly, he knows this and in the working conditions he prescribes that the withdrawal of money should be, for example, within half an hour. An hour. And accordingly, it turns out like, he really stole money from somewhere on the Nalchik River, who made a deposit. They stood on the rivers, and he knows it, but he does not say Nalchik, he simply demands payment.
That stood he cannot pay and this person, the filler, quite reasonably creates arbitration and writes to the guarantor asking to pay the deposit of this person, that is, such hunters of easy money, well, I can not say fools, but let's say illiterate people are quite many, that is, from the fact that you found the deposit.
Pavlovich:
You can be thrown so if he manages to withdraw quickly then everything is his.
Multichel:
It is impossible to catch this scheme there is practically an autoblock, well, in short, at the time of the flood there it lives for 5 minutes on 7, but that is, they initially pour from where it will be a block and the flooder knows this, he can do it, but he understands that it will not work to have money, but to find the number of fools who carry the deposit, quite. There is also a very interesting way of throwing in arbitrations. A person hunts for a telegram account of some kind of cashing service.
Any cashing service in order to work on the site must make a deposit. For example, 1 million rubles, 2 million rubles, sometimes there are 5 million rubles. A person makes a deposit, it is visible to everyone. The person who wants to screw him over, he tries to restore his Telegram account, or he tries to restore his abandoned Telegram account, that is, the one he used, for example,
three months ago, six months ago, and then deleted it for security purposes, and he has a new one on the first page, but he forgot the old one somewhere, that is, he forgot it somewhere on the second page of his advertisement, on the third, but it is somewhere in the details, so they restore the Telegram account in such a way that they register Instagram there, register VKontakte, some other social networks that Telegram accepts, and
they write from these networks and say, you know, I lost access to Telegram, but look, I have such and such an promoted Instagram, not from scratch, but they are literally preparing it, and, accordingly, if they manage to convince Telegram that this is their account, and they see that it is really abandoned, unused, then this is the situation. The scammer restores this Telegram, after that he fabricates correspondence with himself, that is, he pretends to be a cashing service, and he pretends to be a money-loser, and he really writes to him that I am sending you this and that for such and such an amount.
From this Telegram he confirms, moreover, sometimes he really writes to the cashing service on the forum, confirms in some personal messages, but there are no details there, and this correspondence in the telegram and the correspondence in the personal messages can be generally connected.
A situation arises when everyone understands everything, the cashing service is perplexed, it simply did not delete this old contact from contacts at the time, but in fact it turns out that look, here is your page, I wrote off the cart that is indicated to you on the page, I verified in private messages, I sent you 5 million rubles,
you did not pay me, here is all the evidence, all the screenshots, claiming your deposit on the forum of 5 million.
Pavlovich:
But the most interesting thing here is that you can’t get through to Telegram, I haven’t been able to get through to them for years, they just don’t read. It’s not your profession. There’s no support service there, figuratively speaking, there are some volunteers there who don’t read what you write to them at all.
Multichel:
I haven’t contacted Telegram, I assume that if they have such a profession as doing this, getting through, I understand that they can do it, I didn’t cheat in every case, but in one out of ten.
There are quite a lot of wealthy people on the forums who make deposits in order to show that they are serious. I repeat, deposits can be different – 100,000, 300,000, 500,000, 1,000,000, 5,000,000. – It depends on the service that you usually provide. – Yes. But the nuance is that the activity is criminal, and people periodically disappear from the forum. Here he is today, and tomorrow he is closed, he is on the run, he has no access to technology, but he can fly out of forum life for decades, for six months, for a year - no one knows.
Was the person? No. And it happens that there is an unfulfilled obligation, for example, he has a deposit of a million, and obligations for 50 thousand. The person feels sorry for these 50 thousand, he writes arbitration, accordingly, the user is banned for a million, 50 thousand are paid there, and there are hunters for such accounts.
If you somehow managed to find out the email to which your account is linked, restore this email, and, accordingly, log into this account, you begin to try with all your might to prove that it is you, somehow restoring the correspondence. Yes, it is difficult, but if you succeed, you become the owner of this million, you withdraw it there in a month.
There are more amusing schemes, but from the same opera. There was such a user on the forum, the most famous user was Am Ti, the story was about 3 or 4 years ago. He was a very quarrelsome guy, but he was honest up to a certain point, quarrelsome, honest, boorish, and then an arbitration for 700 thousand rubles appears on him, and he does not pay it. Accordingly, he gets banned, and suddenly two years later from the plaintiff's account, who gave him this money 700 thousand.
Suddenly the plaintiff writes, like I've already settled everything with him, I ask you to unban the account. The forum administration gathered, discussed the situation and saw the obvious, that the person came to this site from the white segment, but it turned out that way, that is, he did not
come from the gift theme, he came in, it turned out that way, gave money to the person through the forum, and when he was screwed, he simply left, the account was abandoned, but apparently in the white activity he had some traces left, and the one who screwed him, somehow contacting him in the white activity, was able to clarify what mail he uses, something else, and was able, having restored the mail two years later, going into his account, to write.
There is no long one, I ask you to unban this, and the point was that the Amti account, by my standards, is worth more than one million rubles, well, that is, this was the point of unbanning the account, whether to start working again, that is, receive many orders, or throw someone, I do not know, but this is just a very tricky, such a twisted section of arbitration, where you always need to keep your ears open if you work for large sums of money.
If you work for 5000-1000, then what I said does not particularly apply.
Rules of conduct in arbitration and why they are interesting.
Multichel:
On most forums, if arbitration was opened against you, a note appears in your personal account saying that arbitration has been opened against this user, well, something like "Be careful."
There are generally accepted rules of conduct in arbitration, they sound like this, which means any third parties and any of their statements are prohibited, that is, this is a ban. It's small, for a day, two, three, but if you're really into it and you really want to speak out about the situation, you have two options. The first is to write, I apologize, but I worked with such and such, I consider these circumstances important, I'm posting them.
And the second option. Most sites definitely have something like a flood room or a discussion of claims. If the site is a duplicate, the discussion of claims is dead, then if you take the DarkMoney site, the discussion of claims is alive and very interesting. There you can simply look at the entire history of the forum there for 10 years. Everything is there. That is, if you flip through these several thousand pages of discussions, you can see how the shadow market moved in general, what the trends were, what services there were.
That is, a person who wants to write some kind of dissertation, well, something about the Darknet, then it is quite enough for him to just through, right now you can go to Darkman without a VPN and read the discussions and claims section, there will simply be everything that
is happening in the Darknet. If you are into it and you write something in arbitration, you fly away to the ban for a day. If you did not understand, theoretically you can be banned forever. At the same time, it rarely happens somewhere when people speak correctly, when people do not swear. Well, that is, there is continuous swearing. Rat, wool, swearing, etc., etc.
Well, that is, in short, like two March cats grabbed and these swear words fly.
Interesting arbitration.
Multichel:
Now for our audience I will tell about the arbitration that was about a year ago, interesting, live participants, I know about several years ago, I bought a card for scans, the card was bought in 2018, now it is 22, it is still alive.
So, the card was sold to me by a person with the nickname Anarchist, he appeared on the forums in 2016 or 2017, his nickname was Black Mark, he didn’t understand anything at all, he didn’t understand anything at all, well, in that sense, he was hiding, poking around, asking stupid questions, but little by little he found his topic, so, simply if he started with forums with hacks in VKontakte, and I contacted him.
I may have told this story that I contacted him in 2016, gave him 20 accounts in VKontakte to hack my female acquaintances, hacked 2, he had such a conversion of 1 to 10. Then later he began to sell, he found bank employees who issue Noskan cards, and he had such a good price list, probably from 5, sometimes 10 different banks, and he sold them on forums.
He was quite an authoritative person, he changed his nickname with a black mark to an anarchist, and about a year ago arbitration appeared. I'll just analyze it in detail now, what is indicative about it. The most authoritative user of the forum writes that, so and so, money began to leave the cards for scans that were bought from this person. That is, they are blocked, and money leaves from there, or they just hang in the block and wait for me to spit on the situation so that I can withdraw it later.
How to withdraw? By order. Or the bank employee himself will withdraw. It was not said. At the very beginning, there was a week or two, everything was hanging out on the forum in the open. The name of the bank, the city, well, I looked at this city, there are two branches, and even the name of the employee flashed, in general. In short, I figured her out for myself, that is, all this was in the open, absolutely accessible.
The person he screwed had a deposit of 500 thousand at the time, I think, and now he has 5 million, that is, a wealthy person, and he said that it would be more accurate to say that the money would not leave the hands of aunties. The anarchist quite legally answered that I have been working with her for 2 or 3 years, I work with different banks, people will confirm that I did not screw. Specifically for this employee, I can say that I have worked with her many times, pulled out money, and in general I trust her more, call, find out.
This one threatened with all sorts of punishments, and at the same time, I personally did not understand coming from Moscow to this city, just go to a bank branch, look into their eyes, put a piece of paper, like I know who you are, the problem is, well, the price of the issue is nothing, a round-trip ticket is 20-30 thousand rubles, everything together, go there with the person, in general, what is the ending, anarchists ban, the money is hanging, no one pulls it out.
In short, this girl worked there and still works there. That is, neither the bank noticed this situation. But what is discussed in the Darknet almost openly. The anarchist was banned. He tried to prove his innocence and did it in a very original way. He threw the money out the window. I am speaking figuratively.
That is, he showed up from another account, says, yes, I am a banned anarchist, I want to appeal the decision about my ban, and now you say that if you post a deposit for the appeal, he posted a deposit, I don’t remember, either 160 thousand rubles or 180 thousand rubles, that is, he posted a deposit, he was banned from this account, this money, accordingly, to hell, I couldn’t do that, well, that is, to nowhere, the situation is obvious, and I thought about what his next steps could be.
His path is closed on the forums, everyone knows that the cards are scanned and only 3-4 users sell in such volumes. That is, there is no way for a new one to appear with the same assortment as him. Probably, the only thing left was to work with the one he worked with. I have not yet seen a new person who has appeared. I gave an example of a rather interesting arbitration, there the amount of damage, in my opinion, fluctuated from three to five million.
I repeat, in the end the employee actually earned, the person who bought, despite his solvency, threats and the ability to carry out threats, in my opinion, everything ended in nothing. That is, he just stupidly continued working. Probably, this shows the level of his income. Probably,
I would have acted differently in this situation, but this is my point of view from the outside.
Pavlovich:
So who ended up getting the money?
Multichel:
To the bank employee. Several people immediately wrote, again according to the first one, that the money was also leaving the cards, but we kept quiet there. Often, for some reason, people do not write, arbitrations keep quiet. According to my estimates, in total this young lady pasted from 5 to 10 million, well, in the end there from everyone.
Pavlovich:
So it would be possible to decide on the drops that he, for example, and here the cards are scanned, does not know about it, accordingly, the one who made them.
"The forums lack services for calling with a female voice."
Multichel:
Here, of course, everything is solved by calling. I think that these services, forums, lack services for calling with a female voice. There are many situations when the voice should be female, that is, there is simply not enough person to whom you can contact on a permanent basis, to whom you can give full information, that you need to make a call and just clarify how much money, what the last infantry operation was, what the expenditure operation is, that is, this same person does not call a bank employee in this body, he calls the call center, that is, there they tell everything as it is, and accordingly there is not much you can hide there, that is, you just trust this person with everything, that is, you say the code word,
Pavlovich:
And the last name ... If there is no money anymore, then what difference does it make?
Multichel:
Don't say that, if you open such a service, you must have authority, because as soon as the victim forgets the situation, you can pull it all out with an order. Well, the code word can be changed, let's say. Yeah, you can't change it, in most banks it can only be changed by coming to the bank, plus if they give you full details for calling, last name, first name, patronymic, date of birth.
Pavlovich:
Well, address, passport.
Multichel:
Even if they didn't give it to you, you can get it yourself for pennies. Well, that is, accordingly, we are talking about trust here.
Pavlovich:
Yes, he took it in the eye of God and got it, especially even addresses. Now when the Yandex database leaked, that is, you can get addresses in the eye without any problems. People themselves sometimes even, well, there is information over a long period of time, he says, oh, I haven't lived for three years, and Yandex has everything.
About private arbitrations.
Multichel:
Albert Matveyevich, the Internet remembers everything, that's obvious. What surprised me in this arbitration was that it was not immediately taken to private. And most forums have such a service - private arbitration, when names, bank addresses, some links flash by....
Pavlovich:
Like a closed court hearing, right?
Multichel:
It costs about 100 bucks to take it to private. Accordingly, you often see that there is a forum feed, where something is happening on the forum, you see arbitration of such and such to such and such, you poke there, and there you do not have access, that is, this key is not there, that is, the administrative group of the forum sees it, and what about, the essence, something else, it is not there, it is inexpensive.
I want to say that approximately the same rules apply on all forums, if the transaction is carried out through the guarantor of the forum, then arbitration is free, well, that is, if you use the guarantor, allow the forum to earn, any transaction in arbitration for you becomes free.
Pavlovich:
So with the guarantor, there will be much less arbitrations, because the money is with him, only if after the fact something emerges, they made you a figurative certificate, as on public services it is beaten, and in a week it stopped beating, the guarantor has already released the money or something else.
Multichel:
But it is considered that the guarantor will have to write for a long time, until she gives the details, until you send the details, until she confirms that she sent it, until she writes off to the seller, and the person is itching, burning, and he, looking at the authority, at how they communicate with him, bypasses without a guarantor, and accordingly, if you made a deal without a guarantor, but you have all the proofs of what and how it was, accordingly, you, the arbitration, go out, and there is an arbitration fee everywhere.
For what reasons is the fee required? Well, for example, it is 50-70 dollars. The minimum fee, as far as I know, on WWH is 6 dollars and 10 percent of the amount of the claim, but the more the amount to be sought grows, there it generally reaches only 2% in the end. That is, if you are suing, for example, for 5000 rubles, you pay 6 bucks and 500 rubles there in the end. If you win, you give it to the victim, if there is something to take from him.
If there is nothing to take, then you lose this money, but he is banned there. I participated in orbitrages on both sides, well, probably once, well, several dozen times. It was often funny.
Pavlovich:
Well, of course, because you constantly rub your skin on Darkmoney your whole life.
The story of the hunter of scammers.
Multichel:
Well, I was both a victim and a non-victim, so I have some kind of opinion about how it all works. I remember the time when there was such a local activist, I briefly talked about him, well, in one of the previous issues, that this was a young guy, I think, from Bashkiria, almost from 16 or 18 years old, who began to hang around on these forums, and suddenly he took on the function, he scammed the search, and he
scammed the search according to the principle of the eyes of God, that is, if someone scammed, he began to rummage through his account, they gave him his mail, the forum administration gave him some basic information, it turned out that the person registered an account there on a duplicate on Darkman somewhere else for one more mail, this is somewhere further beat in Yandex, there it is some "Mamba", where he also registered himself on this mail, somewhere indicated a young lady's phone number, and in general, by analyzing open sources, he often exposed people, well, that's it, and showed.
- Into clean water. — Yes, but the point was that most forums have rules, that is, that this is an inside job, that is, if it turns out that Ivan Ivanov from a certain city was the scammer, it cannot be published. Well, that is, it may harm not just this Ivan Ivanov, he could have worked with someone else, in short, when the police arrive, it will affect other Darknet participants.
Well, that is, in short, there is a ban on de-anonymization even of scammers. That is, there is such a ban. That is, inside the scammer, in short, it is just some nickname, it is an electronic record, it is not some conventional person.
"Scammer databases are non-working"
Multichel:
Yes, some forums are trying to introduce a scammer database.
Pavlovich:
They are even trying to do it in Telegram.
Multichel:
It is not working. Nobody catalogues it, there are no interested people there who would earn money on it, that is, they sent you something, you catalogue it, and they send you a request, you immediately say that such and such a young lady, she issues cards there for this, for this, because users such and such reported. There is no such thing. There are such threads on forums, they are not visited, and often, I have already encountered a situation when a person writes, such and such, such and such, he has a funny name, Violetta, stole money.
And he writes, he threw it into this database, and he writes third out of five pages. That is, if he looked at the first page, there is Violetta with a rare name, on the third one. I got interested, checked it out, Tambov, I think, region, lives, I don't remember, Moscow or St. Petersburg, has these debts to the FSSP, and she changed one letter, I don't remember, honestly I don't remember, either in the name or in the surname, that is, she fights with the bailiff service, and how is it, and how is it, well, that is, she changed it in order to issue a card, to cheat, but in general, according to the photo, based on her photo, she fights as, well, a prostitute in Moscow, an individual, that is, the introduction of some databases that someone cheated, does not work, also, if a person of the forum, feeds, but here we get the following situation, if he sat down on some good topic, he does not cheat, and if he, well, in principle cheated in life, he is banned, again, again, again, again search for game.
Now my opinion is that there is a lot of movement on the forums, this is also shown by the number of arbitrations. If we mention the five sites that I have already mentioned today. For example, on the most arbitration site, by the way, I really like the way their system is arranged, it is VVH, they have about 17 arbitrations for these few days of October.
I mean 17 arbitrations that are still being analyzed. They have a very good system that as soon as a person writes an arbitration, the bot forum immediately writes off, and in the sense that communication is only through a personal message, no money can be transferred to anyone and generally gives a breakdown of what to do next.
How can you harm with the help of arbitration.
Multichel:
If the arbitration fee is not paid within one or two days, then, accordingly, the arbitration goes into the trash due to the lack of interest of the plaintiff.
This has one definite advantage, for example, you have some service on the Darkforum, I want to harm you, on the same Darkman I can write that you are a bad person, you screwed me. And the difference between Dark Money and WWH is that in the arbitration section, if not anarchy, then everything is very, very slow.
Accordingly, having written in your work thread that you cheated, and having written separately the arbitration that you cheated.
Pavlovich:
From a new account... - You can suspend the service for a week or two.
Multichel:
It will rather look like, in a day or two or three your arbitration will be assigned to one of the arbitrators, and he is there, "esthete, waiting for the logs." Naturally, I will write, I will send it soon, a day or two passes, the defendant is already fidgeting, he has business as a problem there, and in general it is unpleasant, what is arbitration, he begins to rush the arbitrator, the arbitrator again, naturally, where are you, you begin to say there, damn flies I'm on my way, I can't, but I will send everything now, well, send me this, this one, the details for the arbitration fee, 7-8 days have passed there, the arbitration is hanging, in this way you can make 10 arbitrations, That is the peculiarity of Darkmania - a very cumbersome arbitration system, in other forums everything is much simpler.
That is, a day, two, three - it immediately appears that there is arbitration against you, debtor-defaulter, and fuck it, and then they have a separate section, the fate of these arbitrations, that is, decided, not decided in the sense that its fate is kind of clear. At the same time, there are many more arbitrators on Darkman than on other forums.
"Only a competent person can be an arbitrator."
Multichel:
Probably, this is due to the specifics, a person who has a scan service cannot sort out, he cannot sort out any kind of scam on floods. Only an experienced person should sort out such situations there, and all these experienced people, although they have the status of an arbitrator, they are all busy people. They are really busy people. So he was loaded with this arbitration, he appears there once or twice or three days, They throw him logs here, where, mixed with swearing at each other, you need to understand whether the logs are drawn or not, well, in principle, understand the whole point.
The professionalism of the arbitrators, the professionalism of the arbitrators themselves is normal, but there is no direct interest even for these 50 dollars for arbitration.
By the way, I don’t know whether this money goes to the fund-forum or directly to the arbitrator.
Pavlovich:
Rather to the fund-forum.
Multichel:
I don’t have an answer. There are about twenty arbitrations hanging on Darkman now, well, just ten to one seller, who is now, roughly speaking, in a situation with three million arbitrations. There are several arbitrations on Probiv. The duplicate has this feature, it deals with everything in a row on the forum, they really don’t like unsorted arbitrations. Well, that is, as soon as something is completed, they put it out of sight here, they, apparently, for some reason believe that the presence of arbitration is evidence of the presence of scammers on the forum.
Well, that is, they now have only two or three arbitrations. At the same time, I know that this movement on the forum is very decent. That is, everything is sorted out instantly. But subjectively, the arbitration system on VVH is good. And what if I became a victim somewhere on Darkman? Well, that's how it happened.
I would go and sit on WWH, I would get there, perhaps, a fair decision, I would present it on Darkman, and it would be executed.
Pavlovich:
And you could have been sent far away, because your defendant there, he didn’t scam you on WWH, but on….
“Funny group arbitration”.
Multichel:
WWH is a respected forum. Respect and authority are of great importance on the Internet. I’ll tell you about funny group arbitration now. There is one of the key players known in the Darknet segment, in the exchanger segment, his name is Audi A6. He is the main arbitrator on many forums, he has large deposits on many forums, almost 70 thousand dollars.
This person knows everything in this segment, has known for more than 10 years, he is a wildly busy person. And given that he has a cool exchanger, how can you prove in life that you have something cool. If I’m sitting in front of you, I can somehow do it verbally, visually, somehow, I don’t know, present some evidence, try to get a wad of money, bring an expensive dog, come there with an umbrella for several thousand, well, somehow.
And if you have an exchanger, like all exchangers, accordingly you need to somehow show that you are good, somehow prove to people. And one of the ways to promote yourself on the Internet, for example, I have an account, and I am very sociable. I communicate, communicate, communicate, and accordingly, I have a thousand messages on my account. That is, I am in a thread where scans are discussed, there is a thread about debit cards, there is a thread about arbitrations, that is, I flicker.
And there is an account where the silent one, where one or two messages, he may be a billionaire, but he is silent. Well, people who are very sociable, they can sell a signature under their account with advertising from any on dark money, some ask for 100 dollars for this promoted services, but in fact it costs from 2000 rubles there and here is this Audi A6 for the promotion of his exchanger on one of the forums bought from many users these signatures where it was necessary to have an advertising line in the account about his exchanger about the mixer about some advantages, that is, it was necessary to make three or four lines, and moreover, Audi is a wealthy person, he immediately paid for six months in advance. After some time, being a busy person, he cannot control every little thing, but the support had to somehow control all this once a month, and then one day she says that there is no participation of the user of the signature.
And so he filed a class action lawsuit, like, I'm a normal person, I see that you have 3,000 messages there, I signed a contract with you, transferred you 12 thousand in six months, and you just forgot, in a month and a half or two there's nothing left. So I don't understand how this is possible. In general, I have money, it's not a question of money, I want to return it. And so he wheedled almost 500 rubles out of each, I repeat, he is a very literate, wealthy person.
An interesting story about an exchanger and the morning of February 24.
Multichel:
By the way, my calm on the morning of February 24th is connected with his exchanger. It so happened that I was in Siberia on the 23rd, accordingly, when you fly to Siberia, you have acclimatization, you have a four-hour difference, that is, whether you like it or not, you get up, maybe, that is, it so happened that I got up at 5 in the morning, absolutely not thinking about anything, got on the telegram channel base and suddenly saw what was happening in many cities of Ukraine, put my hands in my pockets, they are empty,
everything is on bitcoin in my head the thought is always war is poverty cold hunger that is, you need to buy food and have cash the state will block everything well that is, in short, you urgently need to buy peace of mind to hustle and bustle I start there at 7 in the morning I began to make an exchange I wrote his exchanger audio 6 but surprise I received the money 7 minutes after that the amount was small there
about 140 thousand with something I ran with the same legs to the 24-hour store where there was an ATM tenkov withdrew money and by 8 in the morning I exhaled all that is, chance I can go somewhere but in case any blockages I have some on that's exactly that's live that is there not on bitcoin somewhere else not in dollars that is in that case 24 those 2-3 hours I just stupidly bought
peace of mind but that is when from 5 in the morning I saw what was happening in the world but I saw well naturally.
Pavlovich:
When I woke up there at about 10 o'clock probably at 11 in the morning plus or minus I don't even remember what I did that day but I remember well what we did before that's my 22nd birthday we watched on the night from 22 to 23 or from 23 to 23 we watched a series about us went one step that hackers filmed Russian hackers the beginning if you haven't watched look we really liked it in principle everyone who saw
me including that and now a day has passed and now it has begun.
"The State Arbitration Court of the Russian Federation is the most honest institution of all the courts in Russia."
Multichel:
I want to summarize what I have repeatedly heard that offline arbitration, that is, the state arbitration court, the state of the Russian Federation, is the most honest institution of all courts, that is, the consideration of cases is carried out correctly, that is, if you are right, then you will most likely win. I have repeatedly heard about this, I myself was in arbitration on white cases ten times, I do not know, I did not notice any jambs.
As for the shadow segment, without it the Darknet market could not exist, because it was a complete rip-off. With the correct understanding of how to conduct business, or rather where and not to sue, where there is a long time, where what, probably 90 percent of cases are real, not where he was scammed, ran away when there is simply no case, when he was banned there and banned, but real cases, probably 85-90 percent are still resolved fairly.
This shadow market does exist, there is also such an unusual situation, there are many forums, darknet topics. Well, for example, 100. Large ones, well, for example, from five to ten. On some forum, for example, a person sells, again, scans, some other crap, well, that is, there he is an authoritative seller, well, he is such and such
a nobody, but then he starts his own forum or just actively participates in the administration of some small forum, there he becomes an arbitrator, and there, finally, some kind of arbitration happens, I have never seen a scrupulous person, how a person likes to be a judge, an arbitrator, that is, when it is in the crowd, it is for fun, they don’t need it, but here, well, that is,
a person asks literally every letter of the law, how he formulates everything, I have observed this more than once, well, because this is a rarity, and he directly, I even think that he tells his wife at home, But I repeat, on forums where arbitrators sit, they don’t need it, they are forced to sort it out, on forums where there is still an individual who, it turns out, should
be a know-it-all, on WWH, on a duplicate, they dismantle it faster there in 2-3 days, and, most likely, they still get money from it.
How do arbitrators work when something cannot be proven.
Pavlovich:
And there is also an element of subjectivity, like on drug forums, on sites that sell, say, drugs, there they have arbitrations all connected with non-finding, and non-findings really do happen, there can be some kind of left-wing product, for example, stale in a stash, old for six months, let's say, and if you imagine yourself in the place of someone who
has to get into such arbitration, in fact it is difficult to understand whether there was a stash there, the person may have just been on the lookout, did not stick his hand deeper, rummaged a little or mixed up at night, if in the forest, etc.
How can you understand whether there really was a stash or not. I can't imagine myself in the place of such arbitrators, these forums, I would probably do something like that, that is, the SHOP has an excellent reputation, there are few such situations, so okay, we will randomly satisfy out of 100, we will satisfy 2-3, and we will simply say no to the rest. That is, how to analyze such arbitration, if it concerns some drug forum.
Well, let's take Rutorkh as an example, well, look. - Rutorsha was always an ordinary forum, and recently it turned into a drug platform. - Listen, there was always... - Literally six months ago,
Multichel:
Probably, yes. - Now it is just a drug platform, but before it was precisely drug-oriented, it was. That is, there is personnel selection, personnel training, anyway, there were always a couple of dozen stores there. That is precisely where the answer is. Look, if we take a financial forum again, the same Dark Money, cashing out services, there are 10 or 20 of them, and the stores that are currently represented on Rutor, there are several hundred of them.
Buyers, small wholesalers and others, there are also a huge number of them. Accordingly, if there is a non-find, I do not know how they can make this decision, except for one, just look at the history of both the seller and the buyer. That is, as I understand it, a large seller will definitely be forgiven one or two days per move, and if this turns into a system, accordingly, they will first recognize him, force him to pay, and then, most likely, they will try to remove him from the forum.
A very huge number of stores, they all have the same problems. The average arbitration check, I looked, 200, 300, 500 thousand, but it is rather in the goods, if on the same Dark Money duplicate it is in money, if on VVX it is even somewhere mainly
tied to dollars, in dollar money, then here it is still some half a kilogram of this muck, 100 grams of this muck, a kilogram of this muck, not per move, I can not say.
Pavlovich:
Well, that is, sometimes even such large wholesale hoards fail to make it, right? I just don't get into it, I don't know, you're just saying 300-500 thousand now.
Multichel:
The so-called master hoard, well, it's a master hoard, well, that's it. In short, most likely, they have some closed statistics, but the essence of the statistics is that if the number of failures is more than a certain percentage, it means the store is being shady. Unfortunately, this is a market where there is a lot of deception.
This is included in the expenses, or something, part, I think that every drug addict faced a no-show, this is, as you know, before Yandex.Taxi appeared, before Yandex.Taxi appeared, for example, such networks, there, Vezet, in Moscow I don’t know, in other cities there were I know for sure the statistics on Vizet every 12th passenger did not come out to the car, that is, there was no ordering an application, money is debited, but there was a person who ordered and Vizet what were the conditions before, a person arrived, so he checked in that he was standing in the entrance and
he had to wait 12 or 15 minutes for the person to come out or not. If the person does not come out, he has no right to leave, they will simply take him off the line, he first calls the dispatcher, if he calls earlier in these 12-15 minutes, then the dispatcher says - where are you in a hurry? You are wasting your time! After 12-15 minutes have passed, the person calls the dispatcher, the dispatcher gets through to the client or doesn't get through, if the client doesn't pick up and says - I'll be on my way now, he says - wait a little longer, if
he doesn't pick up. 2-3 calls. Medvedev calls the driver back and says - yes, he doesn't pick up, wait 2 minutes and you can leave. That's why I say that the person wasted half an hour getting to the client, standing at the entrance and then going to the next order. That is, if a person has a rented car and, for example, doesn't have a 12-hour workday, but wants to work like a person for 8 hours, then it turns out that on average he loses 40-45 minutes of these 8 hours on those who didn't come out.
That is, there were statistics on taxis, every 12th passenger, when you just call and then don't pick up the phone. For example, you called Saturn, someone else is driving, who arrived there first and got in. And since you are a bad person in life, then you don't inform those drivers, they stand and stupidly wait and don't earn money. As I understand it, in the drug business, most likely, the same crap works, that as soon as the percentage of no-shows somewhere goes off the scale, it means the store is acting up.
If the buyer, who writes sensibly, words. Well, and as if he was not noticed for several years, did not find. Usually, after all, as I understand it, they give recommendations to the store to make another stash, well, that is, it is clear that the person is interacting adequately.
Pavlovich:
Well, he has a normal history of relationships, purchases, we also, by the way, in the cashback service, I have a secret discounter look at it that way. Well, for various reasons, subjective and objective, sometimes one or two percent of cashback is lost on the service as a whole. Because there is tracking by cookie file, well, something interrupts the cookie, ad blocker, everything is turned on. Or even for me, everything is tracked well with Google Chrome, with Yandex all purchases are lost, well, with Safari it's 50/50.
And so, it seems like I did everything correctly according to the instructions of the cashback service, but my purchase was not counted. And they write to us like, as if I don't consider it a purchase, for example, if there is a shop, figuratively a restaurant, we write them not a claim but a request that find, here the person provided all the screenshots and there was an order, order number such and such
and some amount and they find it and say this is your AliExpress, for example, it doesn't search for us, 60-70 percent of purchases, like any other cashback service in the CIS, are AliExpress and accordingly we pay, if we pay, from our own funds, and we look at what, for example, if a person has been with us for several years, naturally, we pay. And if this is a newbie, and he has a large cashback amount, well, how large, even 500 rubles, but he is a newbie, that is, we do not always pay.
Sometimes we pay, sometimes we don't, but in any case, the final most significant evidence is the history of relations with us.
Arbitration as advertising.
Multichel:
Some creative people also use arbitration in order to get clients. The victim, the alleged victim, writes to some service to make a claim, like, so, I didn't do it, this and that, this and that. The latter communicates with him very politely, somehow explains the situation, does it, and the victim says, damn, everything is fine, everything is wonderful, no complaints, it's like advertising.
Sometimes in some sections, to be placed, you need to make a deposit of 300-500 thousand and pay for some advertising. And then a person appeared in arbitration, supposedly doing something, or maybe really doing something, this one has claims, settled the claim, and people who read the arbitration write to this one, to that one, depending on who provides what services.
That is, as a promotion, arbitration is also for creative people, in general, for those who have a working head, it also has a place to be, you can enter the market this way.
Result.
Pavlovich:
Guys, here is such an interview, write what situations you encountered on dark forums, arbitration and not so much, because for example, I lost one of the arbitrations on a dark forum, despite the fact that I was absolutely right, but the reason was most likely only in the fact that this scammer who provided the service, opinions were provided there, he was apparently just the second, third account of the forum administration.
That's why I lost and I basically didn't have a chance even when I submitted this, and what stories did you have, write in the comments, hugs, bye.
Sergey Pavlovich talked to everyone's favorite guest in a mask about disputes or as they are commonly called "arbitrations" on shadow forums.
What is arbitration, how is it conducted, what goals does it pursue, what skills should an arbitrator have, what are the rules of conduct in arbitration, what divorce schemes exist in arbitrations, interesting arbitrations - this and much more in the issue.
Enjoy reading!
Contents:
- Introduction
- About ordinary courts
- The story of manual drop
- What is arbitration?
- For what reasons do they open arbitration on shadow forums
- What are the goals of people who open arbitration?
- Arbitration for one of our channel guests
- Divorce schemes in arbitration
- Rules of conduct in arbitration and why they are interesting
- Interesting arbitrage
- "There are not enough call services with a female voice on the forums"
- About private arbitrations
- The story of the scammer hunter
- "The scammers' bases are not working"
- How can you do harm with arbitration?
- "Only a competent person can be an arbitrator"
- "Funny Group Arbitration"
- An interesting story about the exchange office and the morning of February 24
- "The State Arbitration Court of the Russian Federation is the most honest institution of all the courts in Russia"
- How do arbitrators work when something can't be proven?
- Arbitration as advertising
- Summary
Introduction.
Pavlovich:
Friends, hello! Multichel is back in the studio, aka Mr. Vendetta. And today we'll talk about a more specialized issue, about how arbitrations are conducted, proceedings between scammers and just some incomprehensible situations on forums, how they are resolved, whether the forum administration is involved and in whose favor they are most often made and naturally this is about dark forums, so don't switch over, it will be interesting.
About regular courts.
Multichel:
Hello. The first 2-3 minutes I will first talk about offline, that is, not about dark forums, I will say the first paradoxical thing that I did not know before. Our district courts and judges turn out to be wildly overloaded with work. Recently I needed a consultation with a judge, my friend, she is a relative and when I asked for a meeting, we agreed that we would pick her up from work.
We picked her up from work at 15-10 in the evening. According to her, the next morning, by 8 am, she had to go to work and again, according to her, she does this every day. She smelled a little, out of interest, I went to read reviews about this court and saw that people who participated in her trial repeatedly wrote in their reviews that the judge smelled a little of alcohol.
Is this a criminal judge? Yes, it was very funny, I needed to get advice, I got it, but the person who works in our court, I mean the Russian Federation, it turns out that he comes to work at 8 am and actually leaves work, I saw this with my own eyes, at 3-10 pm, and this continues for him every day, that is, our court is busy with work, I did not know this before.
What kind of preamble is this, he said quietly. How problems are solved in the shadow sector, but not in the darknet, but, say, in ordinary real life.
A story about a manual drop.
Multichel:
I saw the story I'm going to tell with my own eyes, maybe it will burn me a little bit about the city-location. The gist of the story is this. There was a white cashier, in order to do cashing, he had to issue bank cards to a bunch of young people.
He saved money, he issued them very inexpensively, he paid only 1000 rubles for each card, and the person who issued the card in his name had to be in touch so that he could go to the bank, pull out the stuck funds, get some paper. Manual drop.
Manual, absolutely, there were a lot of them, since the cashier had very good volumes, then, accordingly, between him and the drop there was a gap of two or three people, that is, to whom one command was transmitted, the cashier did not know the next one, that is, the drop itself. The drops looked very young, very cheap, but huge amounts passed through them.
One of the topics, when they used to do cashing, it was through deposits. And here's the gist of it, that the group would call him once every two weeks, every three weeks and say, listen, Ivan, you need to go to the bank and do, here's a piece of paper, do it, send money there. That is, it was a normal, familiar procedure, a friend would get a conditional thousand rubles for this, and it was nothing surprising. And then this Ivan gets another call, so and so, tomorrow you need to go to Alfa-Bank, that is, fill out the papers and send the money that you have in your deposit, there.
A young man came for him by taxi, as far as I understand, they arrived, and at the bank, to my great surprise, for some reason they didn't pay attention to the discrepancy between the amounts and the person's appearance. Well, that is, in this case, a person there under 21 in sneakers for 500 rubles, physically could not have the amount, but as far as I understand, at that time there was an amount of about 7 million in the warehouse.
In general, in short, there is also a rule in the bank that you can't be alone, that is, each person must be alone. I mean, no one should accompany Dropa, because in addition to the bank employees, there are cameras watching, and this is kind of visible, obviously, this is a generally accepted rule. Dropa gives instructions before going to the bank, and a person hangs around the bank, waiting for him when everything is over.
Here it turned out that he did what he was instructed to do, sent 7 million to the necessary details, the next morning he was woken up by bearded men of the Dagestani with the question, where did you send our money. Well, not theirs specifically, that is, it was the roof of the cashier. They grabbed him by the scruff of the neck, took him to a secluded dark place. He obviously swore, swore that he didn't touch it. It was obvious that he didn't touch it, but just in case, having intimidated him, they took a receipt from him for this amount.
Despite the fact that he didn't even have money for travel. And here, as it were, a receipt that you owe several million rubles. Here. And so he asked me for advice through his friends about this problem, what to do and how. I outlined two ways to solve it. The first way to solve it, that is, you invest it yourself, let's try to follow the path of the person who screwed you over.
That is, it is obvious that someone got involved in this chain between the cashier and these two or three drop-off operators, and knowing that there is money there, and knowing how everything happens, that is, he simply called you from a random number, you don't know this person, he took you to a taxi, he gave you those details, well, that is, they screwed you over in Nalchik. Usually, he could have been in the spotlight somewhere, for example, he ordered a taxi from his number or was sitting in a taxi near an Alfa-Bank branch, for example, was under a video camera, went out to smoke, well, that is, there are recordings from the camera, well, that is, if
invest some money there, then by tracking his route you could find him there, for example, with his SIM card, well, that is, here is the SIM card from which he called you, and next to him is a working phone. Well, that is, track the routes for money, there for 100, 200, there are thousands of rubles, for me it was all real. This is the first option. But the guy came with the fact that he had no money at all. Well, that is, no money for travel. So, I say, well, there is a second option, there are people who are trying to solve such problems, I stupidly sent him to him.
The task of these people turned out to be not what I expected, I naively thought that they would still decide to make money, help, well, so that everyone would be happy. But their task was also to cheat him out of a certain amount so that he would pay for legal services and, most importantly, so that he would write a statement to the police. At the same time, this statement did not save him, but with the help of this statement, as I understand it, they tried to influence the cashier and try to get money from him.
Well, this is my opinion, again. The mother of this drop herself eliminated herself, saying that God will help. The most interesting position turned out to be correct. So, the cops for a very long time and strenuously did not accept the statement and still did not accept it. But the information that the person goes, tries to report, he did not come to the district department, but to the police department that deals with banditry organized by criminal groups.
In general, the ending is that, in my opinion, in addition to this money, others were stolen, that is, the amount was not 7 million, but much more, and, in general, the situation resolved. - I still do not understand who stole in the end.
– I don’t know who stole it, but it was just one of the droppers, knowing how it works, that you can call a drop from a fake number, and the drop is ready to go to the bank, that is, he called, introduced himself as Vasya, you need to carry out such-and-such an assignment, that’s all, that is, the money was gone out of nowhere, the amount, I repeat, is decent, and from what I heard from rumors, it was much more than this amount, well, they found it, then he crossed paths with these guys a couple of times, well, with the Dagestani roof, well, that is, hello-hello on the street, that is, there were no problems with him, the situation resolved itself, well, it’s just exactly how it all happens in the shadow segment, I described it to you approximately, that is, he stole, bearded men come, somehow try to solve it using technical means, track it by video camera and something else, but nothing was done. This is regarding such a story offline.
What is arbitration?
Multichel:
Now I will try to tell you interestingly about arbitrations, about the darknet segment, how it all happens in the Darknet using the example of several of the most common sites, such as Rutor, Darkmoney, Duplicate, Probiv and WWH. And I want to say one thing, that if there are many arbitrations on a site, it means that the site is alive.
That is, if you go in, somehow, search and find some shady site and see that there are no arbitrations, it means that there is no action there. And once upon a time in the Darknet there was a man with the nickname Shakh-mat, he had something strange, he liked to catalog everything, and at one point he discovered that six and a half thousand different services were working in the Darknet segment at the same time.
Some draw documents, some steal money, some provide Tuscany, that is, six and a half thousand of some services. And accordingly, when there are many services, some misunderstandings or scams are sure to occur, and such situations are resolved by arbitrations. That is, each forum has an arbitration section, it is at the very bottom. And from what you see in arbitration, in principle, you can immediately understand what kind of forum it is.
For what reasons do they open arbitration on shadow forums.
Multichel:
That is, if on Rutor they mainly deal with a find, a failure to deliver a large batch of drugs, or the fact that an exchanger that specializes in drugs, in these cases, did not transfer something there, is there a Duplicate of everything, is there dark money, there, for example, mainly, of course, financial claims that either the drop was carried out, or the cashing service did not pay, is there WWH, where there are most arbitrations, there is everything, the most interesting, by the way, is the WWH section, if you look at it like that.
If you just quickly run through the arbitrations, well, with a quick glance, you, for example, can understand the pricing policy for different goods.
Pavlovich:
But this is already clear from the ad, for example, this seller.
Multichel:
Well, for example, the current one, evasion of military service. They are trying to decide how, they make an HIV certificate, but so that it is recorded on state services. The cost of this service fluctuates around 150 thousand rubles. It's just that one of the arbitrations that is currently going on Darkman is connected precisely with this topic, that theoretically everything has been done, the certificate is there.
And in the conditional place where he received it, it is checked, but on state services it is not checked, and the person cannot show it, present it at his military registration and enlistment office.
Pavlovich:
Well, it turns out that he did not receive the service, if it was initially agreed that it should be checked on state services. Right?
Multichel:
In his case, he initially agreed on this, but the essence of probably 30-50% of arbitrations is that the details are not discussed. But in his case, he will most likely win, because the service was provided, there is obviously not completely, it is just that a fairly authoritative service is against him, it is unlikely that the forum administration will somehow put pressure on it, most likely they will say "return the money".
Having glanced, that is, at some arbitrations it becomes clear where what, how much it costs, how relevant some prices are, that is, this is such a market. If we take the popular resource dark money, a significant number of arbitrations are not arbitration, but are an application for receiving money from the guarantor, that is, two people conduct some kind of transaction, the seller sold, the buyer received but does not write to the guarantor that everything is completed, everyone is happy and, accordingly, the money is hanging, the guarantee and the seller writes, that is, he is trying to get this money, it differs from other forums where everything is somehow more automated, that is, 2-3 days have passed since the transaction, there, from the date of the guarantor, the money is automatically paid, that is, Darkmoney is not very convenient in this regard.
What goals do people pursue when opening arbitration.
Multichel:
What goals and sanctions do people usually pursue in arbitration?
First. Ban the offender. Well, that is, you were screwed, deceived, and out of resentment or in order to prevent further screwing, out of a sense of revenge, a person writes an arbitration and in 99% of cases even without any special evidence, because the defendant does not show up. That is, the ban occurs simply due to the defendant's failure to appear, that is, a person writes, explains the situation, the defendant does not show up, 2-3 days pass, he is banned.
The second option, does the defendant have any deposit on this forum, for example, a deposit of 100 thousand rubles. If you were deceived by this user, you write an arbitration, it is considered and if it is proven that you are right, you claim to split the deposit, but in the sense that usually you are not the only one who is deceived and with a deposit of, say, 100 thousand, there are 3, 4 or 5 claimants to it and often the amount of claims is much higher, well, for example, a million, half a million, and the deposit is 100 thousand.
That is, the second goal is to saw off the deposit, I also want to say that the ban of a scammer on some forum is not automatically transferred to other forums, absolutely not transferred, but to remain unnoticed on large forums, if you are banned on a large forum, to continue working on others in general will not work. Well, that is, you may have a day, two, three, that is, someone will definitely write.
Arbitration on one of the guests of our channel.
Multichel:
At the same time, forums have mutual respect, but still there are situations, like for example, you had a user Vasily 80 at an interview, forgery of documents, he had a situation with the forum prov, as I understand it because of some trifling amount, in my opinion 20 thousand rubles plus or minus, that is, clearly not his level, he is much higher, but on this forum, accordingly, he is banned, he has a wild reputation there, and they automatically think that he should be banned everywhere, as a scammer, but on other forums they do not think so.
Accordingly, if something ever happens on another forum and they try to duplicate this status on Probiva, they also understand that we did not recognize it there, they may not recognize it here either, but all the same, the information spreads.
Arbitration scams.
Multichel:
Now I will tell you, as it seems to me, funny stories that are happening now.
My evaluative judgment, evaluative, evaluative, that this is a 60 to 40 production. But the point is this, on the DarkMoney forum there is a seller who sold all the cards in the world that he could get his hands on, debit cards.
He posted in 2020, he has a deposit, that is, the amount that he put as collateral on the forum 500 thousand rubles and now suddenly quite a lot of arbitrations went to him, but for such amounts there are 500 dollars, 1200 dollars, there 200 thousand rubles and here is one of the arbitrations for the amount of 3 million. And as I already said at the beginning of the issue, when the deposit is divided, it is divided among all the victims who proved that they are victims, precisely in proportions.
Accordingly, here it turns out that if this person is recognized as a scammer, then the one who lost 500 dollars will receive, well, I say conditionally, 5 dollars in damages, but the one who has now filed a lawsuit for 3 million will most likely receive 1450-1470 from the deposit. Therefore, I assume that in this situation, the service that shows damages of 3 million is the same scammer.
That is, he filed a lawsuit against himself. If this is so, when the service is recognized as a scammer for 500 thousand, since he scammed everyone, and they will saw off the deposit, then accordingly this lion's share of 470 thousand will go to the one who showed that the damage was 3 million.
Pavlovich:
That is, get your own money back, take it from the forum.
Multichel:
Of course. There he had three options for action. The first is the stupidest, that is, to show this damage and show it just for the hell of it, it is possible. The second option is that he, for example, for a week or five days pretended to be doing something, that is, he fabricated correspondence and really sent money to the details that everyone knows, this five-hundred-thousand-ruble scammer, and it is easy to prove.
Well, that is, it is simply easy to prove. This is the option, I would not fall for it, but if he is initially a thoughtful guy and he really started fabricating correspondence in private messages three months ago, some of these payments, well, to prepare a discount for the forum administration, there will be nothing left to do but fall for this operation of this then competent and thoughtful person, and it turns out that he scammed people with impunity and, accordingly, did not lose the deposit.
How they will fight such a scheme in the future, I do not know. But here again it depends on the thoughtfulness of the person, that is, if in advance, several months in advance, understanding how he will act, he will show some movement between them and it will become clear that the connection between them is commercial for large sums, and he does not lose anything, not a ruble, by transferring between them. Let's say, from Sberbank to T-Bank he drives 100 thousand allegedly for payment of goods and accordingly conducts such correspondence that I bought five T-Bank cards from you there.
Around arbitration, in addition to real victims, swindlers and others, there is also a quasi-swindler market. And it is also quite funny, and what I will say now, perhaps, will keep some of our viewers, headlong, to climb into this market, well, as some kind of participant. For example, it means someone wants to engage in cashing out something.
Well, that is, to be that very casher who withdraws money from an ATM. This is his job. That is, every day, for example, 1 million rubles are poured into his bank cards, which are personal or he bought somewhere. He gets, for example, 10 percent from this, there are 100 thousand. But since this continues every day, then, accordingly, he has a very large income.
In order for him to be able to work like this, he must make a deposit. That is, he writes off to the person who will pour, let's call him a watering can, a pourer, a watering can, it doesn't matter, and writes off to the guarantor of the forum. After that, the money, the deposit, this 100, 200 or 300 thousand, it does not hang in his personal account, that is, it does not apply to all his activities, but he goes only to work
with this pourer, that is, he goes to the guarantor of this forum, for example, 300 thousand rubles were put into the guarantor of this forum, only part-time work with this person, with the pourer, this same pourer, this same pourer is usually a know-it-all, that is, this is a person there with one or two messages, he does not have any deposit because they do not need it, that is, he just stupidly registered the same account, so this pourer cannot pour from some normal merch, but pours from where the block will be automatic, fast enough.
Accordingly, he knows this and in the working conditions he prescribes that the withdrawal of money should be, for example, within half an hour. An hour. And accordingly, it turns out like, he really stole money from somewhere on the Nalchik River, who made a deposit. They stood on the rivers, and he knows it, but he does not say Nalchik, he simply demands payment.
That stood he cannot pay and this person, the filler, quite reasonably creates arbitration and writes to the guarantor asking to pay the deposit of this person, that is, such hunters of easy money, well, I can not say fools, but let's say illiterate people are quite many, that is, from the fact that you found the deposit.
Pavlovich:
You can be thrown so if he manages to withdraw quickly then everything is his.
Multichel:
It is impossible to catch this scheme there is practically an autoblock, well, in short, at the time of the flood there it lives for 5 minutes on 7, but that is, they initially pour from where it will be a block and the flooder knows this, he can do it, but he understands that it will not work to have money, but to find the number of fools who carry the deposit, quite. There is also a very interesting way of throwing in arbitrations. A person hunts for a telegram account of some kind of cashing service.
Any cashing service in order to work on the site must make a deposit. For example, 1 million rubles, 2 million rubles, sometimes there are 5 million rubles. A person makes a deposit, it is visible to everyone. The person who wants to screw him over, he tries to restore his Telegram account, or he tries to restore his abandoned Telegram account, that is, the one he used, for example,
three months ago, six months ago, and then deleted it for security purposes, and he has a new one on the first page, but he forgot the old one somewhere, that is, he forgot it somewhere on the second page of his advertisement, on the third, but it is somewhere in the details, so they restore the Telegram account in such a way that they register Instagram there, register VKontakte, some other social networks that Telegram accepts, and
they write from these networks and say, you know, I lost access to Telegram, but look, I have such and such an promoted Instagram, not from scratch, but they are literally preparing it, and, accordingly, if they manage to convince Telegram that this is their account, and they see that it is really abandoned, unused, then this is the situation. The scammer restores this Telegram, after that he fabricates correspondence with himself, that is, he pretends to be a cashing service, and he pretends to be a money-loser, and he really writes to him that I am sending you this and that for such and such an amount.
From this Telegram he confirms, moreover, sometimes he really writes to the cashing service on the forum, confirms in some personal messages, but there are no details there, and this correspondence in the telegram and the correspondence in the personal messages can be generally connected.
A situation arises when everyone understands everything, the cashing service is perplexed, it simply did not delete this old contact from contacts at the time, but in fact it turns out that look, here is your page, I wrote off the cart that is indicated to you on the page, I verified in private messages, I sent you 5 million rubles,
you did not pay me, here is all the evidence, all the screenshots, claiming your deposit on the forum of 5 million.
Pavlovich:
But the most interesting thing here is that you can’t get through to Telegram, I haven’t been able to get through to them for years, they just don’t read. It’s not your profession. There’s no support service there, figuratively speaking, there are some volunteers there who don’t read what you write to them at all.
Multichel:
I haven’t contacted Telegram, I assume that if they have such a profession as doing this, getting through, I understand that they can do it, I didn’t cheat in every case, but in one out of ten.
There are quite a lot of wealthy people on the forums who make deposits in order to show that they are serious. I repeat, deposits can be different – 100,000, 300,000, 500,000, 1,000,000, 5,000,000. – It depends on the service that you usually provide. – Yes. But the nuance is that the activity is criminal, and people periodically disappear from the forum. Here he is today, and tomorrow he is closed, he is on the run, he has no access to technology, but he can fly out of forum life for decades, for six months, for a year - no one knows.
Was the person? No. And it happens that there is an unfulfilled obligation, for example, he has a deposit of a million, and obligations for 50 thousand. The person feels sorry for these 50 thousand, he writes arbitration, accordingly, the user is banned for a million, 50 thousand are paid there, and there are hunters for such accounts.
If you somehow managed to find out the email to which your account is linked, restore this email, and, accordingly, log into this account, you begin to try with all your might to prove that it is you, somehow restoring the correspondence. Yes, it is difficult, but if you succeed, you become the owner of this million, you withdraw it there in a month.
There are more amusing schemes, but from the same opera. There was such a user on the forum, the most famous user was Am Ti, the story was about 3 or 4 years ago. He was a very quarrelsome guy, but he was honest up to a certain point, quarrelsome, honest, boorish, and then an arbitration for 700 thousand rubles appears on him, and he does not pay it. Accordingly, he gets banned, and suddenly two years later from the plaintiff's account, who gave him this money 700 thousand.
Suddenly the plaintiff writes, like I've already settled everything with him, I ask you to unban the account. The forum administration gathered, discussed the situation and saw the obvious, that the person came to this site from the white segment, but it turned out that way, that is, he did not
come from the gift theme, he came in, it turned out that way, gave money to the person through the forum, and when he was screwed, he simply left, the account was abandoned, but apparently in the white activity he had some traces left, and the one who screwed him, somehow contacting him in the white activity, was able to clarify what mail he uses, something else, and was able, having restored the mail two years later, going into his account, to write.
There is no long one, I ask you to unban this, and the point was that the Amti account, by my standards, is worth more than one million rubles, well, that is, this was the point of unbanning the account, whether to start working again, that is, receive many orders, or throw someone, I do not know, but this is just a very tricky, such a twisted section of arbitration, where you always need to keep your ears open if you work for large sums of money.
If you work for 5000-1000, then what I said does not particularly apply.
Rules of conduct in arbitration and why they are interesting.
Multichel:
On most forums, if arbitration was opened against you, a note appears in your personal account saying that arbitration has been opened against this user, well, something like "Be careful."
There are generally accepted rules of conduct in arbitration, they sound like this, which means any third parties and any of their statements are prohibited, that is, this is a ban. It's small, for a day, two, three, but if you're really into it and you really want to speak out about the situation, you have two options. The first is to write, I apologize, but I worked with such and such, I consider these circumstances important, I'm posting them.
And the second option. Most sites definitely have something like a flood room or a discussion of claims. If the site is a duplicate, the discussion of claims is dead, then if you take the DarkMoney site, the discussion of claims is alive and very interesting. There you can simply look at the entire history of the forum there for 10 years. Everything is there. That is, if you flip through these several thousand pages of discussions, you can see how the shadow market moved in general, what the trends were, what services there were.
That is, a person who wants to write some kind of dissertation, well, something about the Darknet, then it is quite enough for him to just through, right now you can go to Darkman without a VPN and read the discussions and claims section, there will simply be everything that
is happening in the Darknet. If you are into it and you write something in arbitration, you fly away to the ban for a day. If you did not understand, theoretically you can be banned forever. At the same time, it rarely happens somewhere when people speak correctly, when people do not swear. Well, that is, there is continuous swearing. Rat, wool, swearing, etc., etc.
Well, that is, in short, like two March cats grabbed and these swear words fly.
Interesting arbitration.
Multichel:
Now for our audience I will tell about the arbitration that was about a year ago, interesting, live participants, I know about several years ago, I bought a card for scans, the card was bought in 2018, now it is 22, it is still alive.
So, the card was sold to me by a person with the nickname Anarchist, he appeared on the forums in 2016 or 2017, his nickname was Black Mark, he didn’t understand anything at all, he didn’t understand anything at all, well, in that sense, he was hiding, poking around, asking stupid questions, but little by little he found his topic, so, simply if he started with forums with hacks in VKontakte, and I contacted him.
I may have told this story that I contacted him in 2016, gave him 20 accounts in VKontakte to hack my female acquaintances, hacked 2, he had such a conversion of 1 to 10. Then later he began to sell, he found bank employees who issue Noskan cards, and he had such a good price list, probably from 5, sometimes 10 different banks, and he sold them on forums.
He was quite an authoritative person, he changed his nickname with a black mark to an anarchist, and about a year ago arbitration appeared. I'll just analyze it in detail now, what is indicative about it. The most authoritative user of the forum writes that, so and so, money began to leave the cards for scans that were bought from this person. That is, they are blocked, and money leaves from there, or they just hang in the block and wait for me to spit on the situation so that I can withdraw it later.
How to withdraw? By order. Or the bank employee himself will withdraw. It was not said. At the very beginning, there was a week or two, everything was hanging out on the forum in the open. The name of the bank, the city, well, I looked at this city, there are two branches, and even the name of the employee flashed, in general. In short, I figured her out for myself, that is, all this was in the open, absolutely accessible.
The person he screwed had a deposit of 500 thousand at the time, I think, and now he has 5 million, that is, a wealthy person, and he said that it would be more accurate to say that the money would not leave the hands of aunties. The anarchist quite legally answered that I have been working with her for 2 or 3 years, I work with different banks, people will confirm that I did not screw. Specifically for this employee, I can say that I have worked with her many times, pulled out money, and in general I trust her more, call, find out.
This one threatened with all sorts of punishments, and at the same time, I personally did not understand coming from Moscow to this city, just go to a bank branch, look into their eyes, put a piece of paper, like I know who you are, the problem is, well, the price of the issue is nothing, a round-trip ticket is 20-30 thousand rubles, everything together, go there with the person, in general, what is the ending, anarchists ban, the money is hanging, no one pulls it out.
In short, this girl worked there and still works there. That is, neither the bank noticed this situation. But what is discussed in the Darknet almost openly. The anarchist was banned. He tried to prove his innocence and did it in a very original way. He threw the money out the window. I am speaking figuratively.
That is, he showed up from another account, says, yes, I am a banned anarchist, I want to appeal the decision about my ban, and now you say that if you post a deposit for the appeal, he posted a deposit, I don’t remember, either 160 thousand rubles or 180 thousand rubles, that is, he posted a deposit, he was banned from this account, this money, accordingly, to hell, I couldn’t do that, well, that is, to nowhere, the situation is obvious, and I thought about what his next steps could be.
His path is closed on the forums, everyone knows that the cards are scanned and only 3-4 users sell in such volumes. That is, there is no way for a new one to appear with the same assortment as him. Probably, the only thing left was to work with the one he worked with. I have not yet seen a new person who has appeared. I gave an example of a rather interesting arbitration, there the amount of damage, in my opinion, fluctuated from three to five million.
I repeat, in the end the employee actually earned, the person who bought, despite his solvency, threats and the ability to carry out threats, in my opinion, everything ended in nothing. That is, he just stupidly continued working. Probably, this shows the level of his income. Probably,
I would have acted differently in this situation, but this is my point of view from the outside.
Pavlovich:
So who ended up getting the money?
Multichel:
To the bank employee. Several people immediately wrote, again according to the first one, that the money was also leaving the cards, but we kept quiet there. Often, for some reason, people do not write, arbitrations keep quiet. According to my estimates, in total this young lady pasted from 5 to 10 million, well, in the end there from everyone.
Pavlovich:
So it would be possible to decide on the drops that he, for example, and here the cards are scanned, does not know about it, accordingly, the one who made them.
"The forums lack services for calling with a female voice."
Multichel:
Here, of course, everything is solved by calling. I think that these services, forums, lack services for calling with a female voice. There are many situations when the voice should be female, that is, there is simply not enough person to whom you can contact on a permanent basis, to whom you can give full information, that you need to make a call and just clarify how much money, what the last infantry operation was, what the expenditure operation is, that is, this same person does not call a bank employee in this body, he calls the call center, that is, there they tell everything as it is, and accordingly there is not much you can hide there, that is, you just trust this person with everything, that is, you say the code word,
Pavlovich:
And the last name ... If there is no money anymore, then what difference does it make?
Multichel:
Don't say that, if you open such a service, you must have authority, because as soon as the victim forgets the situation, you can pull it all out with an order. Well, the code word can be changed, let's say. Yeah, you can't change it, in most banks it can only be changed by coming to the bank, plus if they give you full details for calling, last name, first name, patronymic, date of birth.
Pavlovich:
Well, address, passport.
Multichel:
Even if they didn't give it to you, you can get it yourself for pennies. Well, that is, accordingly, we are talking about trust here.
Pavlovich:
Yes, he took it in the eye of God and got it, especially even addresses. Now when the Yandex database leaked, that is, you can get addresses in the eye without any problems. People themselves sometimes even, well, there is information over a long period of time, he says, oh, I haven't lived for three years, and Yandex has everything.
About private arbitrations.
Multichel:
Albert Matveyevich, the Internet remembers everything, that's obvious. What surprised me in this arbitration was that it was not immediately taken to private. And most forums have such a service - private arbitration, when names, bank addresses, some links flash by....
Pavlovich:
Like a closed court hearing, right?
Multichel:
It costs about 100 bucks to take it to private. Accordingly, you often see that there is a forum feed, where something is happening on the forum, you see arbitration of such and such to such and such, you poke there, and there you do not have access, that is, this key is not there, that is, the administrative group of the forum sees it, and what about, the essence, something else, it is not there, it is inexpensive.
I want to say that approximately the same rules apply on all forums, if the transaction is carried out through the guarantor of the forum, then arbitration is free, well, that is, if you use the guarantor, allow the forum to earn, any transaction in arbitration for you becomes free.
Pavlovich:
So with the guarantor, there will be much less arbitrations, because the money is with him, only if after the fact something emerges, they made you a figurative certificate, as on public services it is beaten, and in a week it stopped beating, the guarantor has already released the money or something else.
Multichel:
But it is considered that the guarantor will have to write for a long time, until she gives the details, until you send the details, until she confirms that she sent it, until she writes off to the seller, and the person is itching, burning, and he, looking at the authority, at how they communicate with him, bypasses without a guarantor, and accordingly, if you made a deal without a guarantor, but you have all the proofs of what and how it was, accordingly, you, the arbitration, go out, and there is an arbitration fee everywhere.
For what reasons is the fee required? Well, for example, it is 50-70 dollars. The minimum fee, as far as I know, on WWH is 6 dollars and 10 percent of the amount of the claim, but the more the amount to be sought grows, there it generally reaches only 2% in the end. That is, if you are suing, for example, for 5000 rubles, you pay 6 bucks and 500 rubles there in the end. If you win, you give it to the victim, if there is something to take from him.
If there is nothing to take, then you lose this money, but he is banned there. I participated in orbitrages on both sides, well, probably once, well, several dozen times. It was often funny.
Pavlovich:
Well, of course, because you constantly rub your skin on Darkmoney your whole life.
The story of the hunter of scammers.
Multichel:
Well, I was both a victim and a non-victim, so I have some kind of opinion about how it all works. I remember the time when there was such a local activist, I briefly talked about him, well, in one of the previous issues, that this was a young guy, I think, from Bashkiria, almost from 16 or 18 years old, who began to hang around on these forums, and suddenly he took on the function, he scammed the search, and he
scammed the search according to the principle of the eyes of God, that is, if someone scammed, he began to rummage through his account, they gave him his mail, the forum administration gave him some basic information, it turned out that the person registered an account there on a duplicate on Darkman somewhere else for one more mail, this is somewhere further beat in Yandex, there it is some "Mamba", where he also registered himself on this mail, somewhere indicated a young lady's phone number, and in general, by analyzing open sources, he often exposed people, well, that's it, and showed.
- Into clean water. — Yes, but the point was that most forums have rules, that is, that this is an inside job, that is, if it turns out that Ivan Ivanov from a certain city was the scammer, it cannot be published. Well, that is, it may harm not just this Ivan Ivanov, he could have worked with someone else, in short, when the police arrive, it will affect other Darknet participants.
Well, that is, in short, there is a ban on de-anonymization even of scammers. That is, there is such a ban. That is, inside the scammer, in short, it is just some nickname, it is an electronic record, it is not some conventional person.
"Scammer databases are non-working"
Multichel:
Yes, some forums are trying to introduce a scammer database.
Pavlovich:
They are even trying to do it in Telegram.
Multichel:
It is not working. Nobody catalogues it, there are no interested people there who would earn money on it, that is, they sent you something, you catalogue it, and they send you a request, you immediately say that such and such a young lady, she issues cards there for this, for this, because users such and such reported. There is no such thing. There are such threads on forums, they are not visited, and often, I have already encountered a situation when a person writes, such and such, such and such, he has a funny name, Violetta, stole money.
And he writes, he threw it into this database, and he writes third out of five pages. That is, if he looked at the first page, there is Violetta with a rare name, on the third one. I got interested, checked it out, Tambov, I think, region, lives, I don't remember, Moscow or St. Petersburg, has these debts to the FSSP, and she changed one letter, I don't remember, honestly I don't remember, either in the name or in the surname, that is, she fights with the bailiff service, and how is it, and how is it, well, that is, she changed it in order to issue a card, to cheat, but in general, according to the photo, based on her photo, she fights as, well, a prostitute in Moscow, an individual, that is, the introduction of some databases that someone cheated, does not work, also, if a person of the forum, feeds, but here we get the following situation, if he sat down on some good topic, he does not cheat, and if he, well, in principle cheated in life, he is banned, again, again, again, again search for game.
Now my opinion is that there is a lot of movement on the forums, this is also shown by the number of arbitrations. If we mention the five sites that I have already mentioned today. For example, on the most arbitration site, by the way, I really like the way their system is arranged, it is VVH, they have about 17 arbitrations for these few days of October.
I mean 17 arbitrations that are still being analyzed. They have a very good system that as soon as a person writes an arbitration, the bot forum immediately writes off, and in the sense that communication is only through a personal message, no money can be transferred to anyone and generally gives a breakdown of what to do next.
How can you harm with the help of arbitration.
Multichel:
If the arbitration fee is not paid within one or two days, then, accordingly, the arbitration goes into the trash due to the lack of interest of the plaintiff.
This has one definite advantage, for example, you have some service on the Darkforum, I want to harm you, on the same Darkman I can write that you are a bad person, you screwed me. And the difference between Dark Money and WWH is that in the arbitration section, if not anarchy, then everything is very, very slow.
Accordingly, having written in your work thread that you cheated, and having written separately the arbitration that you cheated.
Pavlovich:
From a new account... - You can suspend the service for a week or two.
Multichel:
It will rather look like, in a day or two or three your arbitration will be assigned to one of the arbitrators, and he is there, "esthete, waiting for the logs." Naturally, I will write, I will send it soon, a day or two passes, the defendant is already fidgeting, he has business as a problem there, and in general it is unpleasant, what is arbitration, he begins to rush the arbitrator, the arbitrator again, naturally, where are you, you begin to say there, damn flies I'm on my way, I can't, but I will send everything now, well, send me this, this one, the details for the arbitration fee, 7-8 days have passed there, the arbitration is hanging, in this way you can make 10 arbitrations, That is the peculiarity of Darkmania - a very cumbersome arbitration system, in other forums everything is much simpler.
That is, a day, two, three - it immediately appears that there is arbitration against you, debtor-defaulter, and fuck it, and then they have a separate section, the fate of these arbitrations, that is, decided, not decided in the sense that its fate is kind of clear. At the same time, there are many more arbitrators on Darkman than on other forums.
"Only a competent person can be an arbitrator."
Multichel:
Probably, this is due to the specifics, a person who has a scan service cannot sort out, he cannot sort out any kind of scam on floods. Only an experienced person should sort out such situations there, and all these experienced people, although they have the status of an arbitrator, they are all busy people. They are really busy people. So he was loaded with this arbitration, he appears there once or twice or three days, They throw him logs here, where, mixed with swearing at each other, you need to understand whether the logs are drawn or not, well, in principle, understand the whole point.
The professionalism of the arbitrators, the professionalism of the arbitrators themselves is normal, but there is no direct interest even for these 50 dollars for arbitration.
By the way, I don’t know whether this money goes to the fund-forum or directly to the arbitrator.
Pavlovich:
Rather to the fund-forum.
Multichel:
I don’t have an answer. There are about twenty arbitrations hanging on Darkman now, well, just ten to one seller, who is now, roughly speaking, in a situation with three million arbitrations. There are several arbitrations on Probiv. The duplicate has this feature, it deals with everything in a row on the forum, they really don’t like unsorted arbitrations. Well, that is, as soon as something is completed, they put it out of sight here, they, apparently, for some reason believe that the presence of arbitration is evidence of the presence of scammers on the forum.
Well, that is, they now have only two or three arbitrations. At the same time, I know that this movement on the forum is very decent. That is, everything is sorted out instantly. But subjectively, the arbitration system on VVH is good. And what if I became a victim somewhere on Darkman? Well, that's how it happened.
I would go and sit on WWH, I would get there, perhaps, a fair decision, I would present it on Darkman, and it would be executed.
Pavlovich:
And you could have been sent far away, because your defendant there, he didn’t scam you on WWH, but on….
“Funny group arbitration”.
Multichel:
WWH is a respected forum. Respect and authority are of great importance on the Internet. I’ll tell you about funny group arbitration now. There is one of the key players known in the Darknet segment, in the exchanger segment, his name is Audi A6. He is the main arbitrator on many forums, he has large deposits on many forums, almost 70 thousand dollars.
This person knows everything in this segment, has known for more than 10 years, he is a wildly busy person. And given that he has a cool exchanger, how can you prove in life that you have something cool. If I’m sitting in front of you, I can somehow do it verbally, visually, somehow, I don’t know, present some evidence, try to get a wad of money, bring an expensive dog, come there with an umbrella for several thousand, well, somehow.
And if you have an exchanger, like all exchangers, accordingly you need to somehow show that you are good, somehow prove to people. And one of the ways to promote yourself on the Internet, for example, I have an account, and I am very sociable. I communicate, communicate, communicate, and accordingly, I have a thousand messages on my account. That is, I am in a thread where scans are discussed, there is a thread about debit cards, there is a thread about arbitrations, that is, I flicker.
And there is an account where the silent one, where one or two messages, he may be a billionaire, but he is silent. Well, people who are very sociable, they can sell a signature under their account with advertising from any on dark money, some ask for 100 dollars for this promoted services, but in fact it costs from 2000 rubles there and here is this Audi A6 for the promotion of his exchanger on one of the forums bought from many users these signatures where it was necessary to have an advertising line in the account about his exchanger about the mixer about some advantages, that is, it was necessary to make three or four lines, and moreover, Audi is a wealthy person, he immediately paid for six months in advance. After some time, being a busy person, he cannot control every little thing, but the support had to somehow control all this once a month, and then one day she says that there is no participation of the user of the signature.
And so he filed a class action lawsuit, like, I'm a normal person, I see that you have 3,000 messages there, I signed a contract with you, transferred you 12 thousand in six months, and you just forgot, in a month and a half or two there's nothing left. So I don't understand how this is possible. In general, I have money, it's not a question of money, I want to return it. And so he wheedled almost 500 rubles out of each, I repeat, he is a very literate, wealthy person.
An interesting story about an exchanger and the morning of February 24.
Multichel:
By the way, my calm on the morning of February 24th is connected with his exchanger. It so happened that I was in Siberia on the 23rd, accordingly, when you fly to Siberia, you have acclimatization, you have a four-hour difference, that is, whether you like it or not, you get up, maybe, that is, it so happened that I got up at 5 in the morning, absolutely not thinking about anything, got on the telegram channel base and suddenly saw what was happening in many cities of Ukraine, put my hands in my pockets, they are empty,
everything is on bitcoin in my head the thought is always war is poverty cold hunger that is, you need to buy food and have cash the state will block everything well that is, in short, you urgently need to buy peace of mind to hustle and bustle I start there at 7 in the morning I began to make an exchange I wrote his exchanger audio 6 but surprise I received the money 7 minutes after that the amount was small there
about 140 thousand with something I ran with the same legs to the 24-hour store where there was an ATM tenkov withdrew money and by 8 in the morning I exhaled all that is, chance I can go somewhere but in case any blockages I have some on that's exactly that's live that is there not on bitcoin somewhere else not in dollars that is in that case 24 those 2-3 hours I just stupidly bought
peace of mind but that is when from 5 in the morning I saw what was happening in the world but I saw well naturally.
Pavlovich:
When I woke up there at about 10 o'clock probably at 11 in the morning plus or minus I don't even remember what I did that day but I remember well what we did before that's my 22nd birthday we watched on the night from 22 to 23 or from 23 to 23 we watched a series about us went one step that hackers filmed Russian hackers the beginning if you haven't watched look we really liked it in principle everyone who saw
me including that and now a day has passed and now it has begun.
"The State Arbitration Court of the Russian Federation is the most honest institution of all the courts in Russia."
Multichel:
I want to summarize what I have repeatedly heard that offline arbitration, that is, the state arbitration court, the state of the Russian Federation, is the most honest institution of all courts, that is, the consideration of cases is carried out correctly, that is, if you are right, then you will most likely win. I have repeatedly heard about this, I myself was in arbitration on white cases ten times, I do not know, I did not notice any jambs.
As for the shadow segment, without it the Darknet market could not exist, because it was a complete rip-off. With the correct understanding of how to conduct business, or rather where and not to sue, where there is a long time, where what, probably 90 percent of cases are real, not where he was scammed, ran away when there is simply no case, when he was banned there and banned, but real cases, probably 85-90 percent are still resolved fairly.
This shadow market does exist, there is also such an unusual situation, there are many forums, darknet topics. Well, for example, 100. Large ones, well, for example, from five to ten. On some forum, for example, a person sells, again, scans, some other crap, well, that is, there he is an authoritative seller, well, he is such and such
a nobody, but then he starts his own forum or just actively participates in the administration of some small forum, there he becomes an arbitrator, and there, finally, some kind of arbitration happens, I have never seen a scrupulous person, how a person likes to be a judge, an arbitrator, that is, when it is in the crowd, it is for fun, they don’t need it, but here, well, that is,
a person asks literally every letter of the law, how he formulates everything, I have observed this more than once, well, because this is a rarity, and he directly, I even think that he tells his wife at home, But I repeat, on forums where arbitrators sit, they don’t need it, they are forced to sort it out, on forums where there is still an individual who, it turns out, should
be a know-it-all, on WWH, on a duplicate, they dismantle it faster there in 2-3 days, and, most likely, they still get money from it.
How do arbitrators work when something cannot be proven.
Pavlovich:
And there is also an element of subjectivity, like on drug forums, on sites that sell, say, drugs, there they have arbitrations all connected with non-finding, and non-findings really do happen, there can be some kind of left-wing product, for example, stale in a stash, old for six months, let's say, and if you imagine yourself in the place of someone who
has to get into such arbitration, in fact it is difficult to understand whether there was a stash there, the person may have just been on the lookout, did not stick his hand deeper, rummaged a little or mixed up at night, if in the forest, etc.
How can you understand whether there really was a stash or not. I can't imagine myself in the place of such arbitrators, these forums, I would probably do something like that, that is, the SHOP has an excellent reputation, there are few such situations, so okay, we will randomly satisfy out of 100, we will satisfy 2-3, and we will simply say no to the rest. That is, how to analyze such arbitration, if it concerns some drug forum.
Well, let's take Rutorkh as an example, well, look. - Rutorsha was always an ordinary forum, and recently it turned into a drug platform. - Listen, there was always... - Literally six months ago,
Multichel:
Probably, yes. - Now it is just a drug platform, but before it was precisely drug-oriented, it was. That is, there is personnel selection, personnel training, anyway, there were always a couple of dozen stores there. That is precisely where the answer is. Look, if we take a financial forum again, the same Dark Money, cashing out services, there are 10 or 20 of them, and the stores that are currently represented on Rutor, there are several hundred of them.
Buyers, small wholesalers and others, there are also a huge number of them. Accordingly, if there is a non-find, I do not know how they can make this decision, except for one, just look at the history of both the seller and the buyer. That is, as I understand it, a large seller will definitely be forgiven one or two days per move, and if this turns into a system, accordingly, they will first recognize him, force him to pay, and then, most likely, they will try to remove him from the forum.
A very huge number of stores, they all have the same problems. The average arbitration check, I looked, 200, 300, 500 thousand, but it is rather in the goods, if on the same Dark Money duplicate it is in money, if on VVX it is even somewhere mainly
tied to dollars, in dollar money, then here it is still some half a kilogram of this muck, 100 grams of this muck, a kilogram of this muck, not per move, I can not say.
Pavlovich:
Well, that is, sometimes even such large wholesale hoards fail to make it, right? I just don't get into it, I don't know, you're just saying 300-500 thousand now.
Multichel:
The so-called master hoard, well, it's a master hoard, well, that's it. In short, most likely, they have some closed statistics, but the essence of the statistics is that if the number of failures is more than a certain percentage, it means the store is being shady. Unfortunately, this is a market where there is a lot of deception.
This is included in the expenses, or something, part, I think that every drug addict faced a no-show, this is, as you know, before Yandex.Taxi appeared, before Yandex.Taxi appeared, for example, such networks, there, Vezet, in Moscow I don’t know, in other cities there were I know for sure the statistics on Vizet every 12th passenger did not come out to the car, that is, there was no ordering an application, money is debited, but there was a person who ordered and Vizet what were the conditions before, a person arrived, so he checked in that he was standing in the entrance and
he had to wait 12 or 15 minutes for the person to come out or not. If the person does not come out, he has no right to leave, they will simply take him off the line, he first calls the dispatcher, if he calls earlier in these 12-15 minutes, then the dispatcher says - where are you in a hurry? You are wasting your time! After 12-15 minutes have passed, the person calls the dispatcher, the dispatcher gets through to the client or doesn't get through, if the client doesn't pick up and says - I'll be on my way now, he says - wait a little longer, if
he doesn't pick up. 2-3 calls. Medvedev calls the driver back and says - yes, he doesn't pick up, wait 2 minutes and you can leave. That's why I say that the person wasted half an hour getting to the client, standing at the entrance and then going to the next order. That is, if a person has a rented car and, for example, doesn't have a 12-hour workday, but wants to work like a person for 8 hours, then it turns out that on average he loses 40-45 minutes of these 8 hours on those who didn't come out.
That is, there were statistics on taxis, every 12th passenger, when you just call and then don't pick up the phone. For example, you called Saturn, someone else is driving, who arrived there first and got in. And since you are a bad person in life, then you don't inform those drivers, they stand and stupidly wait and don't earn money. As I understand it, in the drug business, most likely, the same crap works, that as soon as the percentage of no-shows somewhere goes off the scale, it means the store is acting up.
If the buyer, who writes sensibly, words. Well, and as if he was not noticed for several years, did not find. Usually, after all, as I understand it, they give recommendations to the store to make another stash, well, that is, it is clear that the person is interacting adequately.
Pavlovich:
Well, he has a normal history of relationships, purchases, we also, by the way, in the cashback service, I have a secret discounter look at it that way. Well, for various reasons, subjective and objective, sometimes one or two percent of cashback is lost on the service as a whole. Because there is tracking by cookie file, well, something interrupts the cookie, ad blocker, everything is turned on. Or even for me, everything is tracked well with Google Chrome, with Yandex all purchases are lost, well, with Safari it's 50/50.
And so, it seems like I did everything correctly according to the instructions of the cashback service, but my purchase was not counted. And they write to us like, as if I don't consider it a purchase, for example, if there is a shop, figuratively a restaurant, we write them not a claim but a request that find, here the person provided all the screenshots and there was an order, order number such and such
and some amount and they find it and say this is your AliExpress, for example, it doesn't search for us, 60-70 percent of purchases, like any other cashback service in the CIS, are AliExpress and accordingly we pay, if we pay, from our own funds, and we look at what, for example, if a person has been with us for several years, naturally, we pay. And if this is a newbie, and he has a large cashback amount, well, how large, even 500 rubles, but he is a newbie, that is, we do not always pay.
Sometimes we pay, sometimes we don't, but in any case, the final most significant evidence is the history of relations with us.
Arbitration as advertising.
Multichel:
Some creative people also use arbitration in order to get clients. The victim, the alleged victim, writes to some service to make a claim, like, so, I didn't do it, this and that, this and that. The latter communicates with him very politely, somehow explains the situation, does it, and the victim says, damn, everything is fine, everything is wonderful, no complaints, it's like advertising.
Sometimes in some sections, to be placed, you need to make a deposit of 300-500 thousand and pay for some advertising. And then a person appeared in arbitration, supposedly doing something, or maybe really doing something, this one has claims, settled the claim, and people who read the arbitration write to this one, to that one, depending on who provides what services.
That is, as a promotion, arbitration is also for creative people, in general, for those who have a working head, it also has a place to be, you can enter the market this way.
Result.
Pavlovich:
Guys, here is such an interview, write what situations you encountered on dark forums, arbitration and not so much, because for example, I lost one of the arbitrations on a dark forum, despite the fact that I was absolutely right, but the reason was most likely only in the fact that this scammer who provided the service, opinions were provided there, he was apparently just the second, third account of the forum administration.
That's why I lost and I basically didn't have a chance even when I submitted this, and what stories did you have, write in the comments, hugs, bye.
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