50 YEARS FOR CARDING: How to survive in a Thai prison and not go crazy

[Cloned Boy]

JAILED FOR 50 YEARS.

Sergey Pavlovich talked to Anatoly, who was sentenced to 50 years in a Thai prison.

How he ended up in Bangkok and started carding, how much he managed to earn, how he was caught and sentenced to 304 years in prison, and later reduced to 50 years, what the conditions were, why books were banned there - this and much more in this topic.

Enjoy reading!

Contents:

• Introduction
• Guest's background. Adventure.
• The essence of the matter. The scheme of work.
• Revenue volume. Bank cards, number of cards.
• Catch of criminals. Registration procedures, transportation of criminals.
• Court. Prison environment.
• Opinion about the justice system, prison
• Assistance from Russian consuls
• Contingent of convicts. Right of death penalty.
• Opportunities to Purchase Items in Prison
• The ability to connect with loved ones
• Time before trial
• Interaction with a lawyer and a prosecutor
• The first words of the translator. The verdict.
• Where was the lawyer from?
• Corruption
• Maximum term. Condition after hearing the verdict.
• Return to the pretrial detention center. The difference between a pretrial detention center and a prison.
• Sentences of other prisoners
• Food and living conditions
• Difficult moments
• Difficulty in obtaining books
• Diseases and their treatment
• Medicine in prison
• Sentence of imprisonment. Amnesty.
• Reason for choosing Asia for crime
• Reflections in Prison
• Relationship with brother. Directions for development after serving time.
• The Impact of How I Stole a Million
• The most valuable thing taken out of prison
• Results

Introduction
Pavlovich:
Hello, friends, new interview.
And today about carding in Thailand. And about the term, how much do you think you can get for cards, 304 years. And now we have a guest. Can I say your name or not?

Carder:
Yes, yes, please.

Pavlovich:
Yes, Anatoly, and your sentence was 304 for cards. How is that even possible? And where are you now, in prison? You have such rich interiors there.

Carder:
No, thank God, I was released a long time ago. Well, that's the kind of judicial system they have. 304 was counted as a year for each card. And at the trial the interpreter said, Unfortunately, according to our laws, we cannot give you a term of 304 years, the maximum term is 50, so you will sit in prison for 50 years, accompanying all this with the famous Thai smile.

The guest's background. An adventure.
Pavlovich:
Well, in general, the beginning of the story, how did it all happen, where and why?

Carder:
There was a backstory. At that time, I was working as a lifeguard at the Lebyazh water park in Minsk. And at one point, I was offered this adventure: go to Thailand, to Bangkok. They didn’t really tell me the details. They said a figure that you could earn good money. I asked if they could kill you.
That was basically my first question. They said it was unlikely. More precisely, they said no-no-no, everything would be clear in this regard. Well, that’s it, I got ready, went, not long, I think, and ended up in Bangkok, and everything started spinning and whirling there.

Pavlovich:
So you were only interested in one question: could they kill you, right? So you were ready for anything, but not to be killed. So, you didn’t care about serving time and so on?

Carder:
Well, the prison term, you know, well, naturally, I asked there more or less, that, well, I didn’t want to get involved with the equity type of crime, yes, and when this-this-that-that was cut off. I calculated all this based on our Belarusian or Russian, okay. And I didn’t even think that some numbers could be different.
You always keep in mind this first, one, before, some mitigating factors and so on. Well, that is, this whole story, which is somehow more or less familiar to you, you’ve heard about it. That was the purpose of the calculation, as it turned out, it was catastrophic. How old were you then? 31, or something like that.

The essence of the matter. The scheme of work.
Pavlovich:
Well, already quite a lot, that is. Quite a lot, yes. So what, and you come to Bangkok with some guys?

Carder:
I arrive alone, I've already met there, that is, they bring me up to speed, they tell me what's what, plus or minus, I need to go there, pick up these cookies in one place, bring them to another place. So they tell me what to do, how to approach. Well, because I was completely green, I didn't know anything.

Pavlovich:
And what was that in the end, the scheme of work? What did you take, where?

Carder:
You take credit cards, big ones, with PIN codes you know, go to the machine, enter the PIN code, take out the plaque, leave, depending on the card limit, how alive or dead it is. There were some that worked there for weeks. Well, that's basically it, you collect cash, at a certain point, they say, exactly the same way, where to go, there, make a cache with this cash, or give it to someone.
Personal meetings were rare, but they did happen.

Pavlovich:
In Thai baht?

Carder:
Yes, there were some in Thai baht. Athletes walked around with bags.

Pavlovich:
What was the exchange rate then? Now one to thirty-two dollars.

Carder:
Then it was also plus or minus, something around thirty, maybe five I want to say, I don't want to deceive, I just don't remember. Well, thirty to thirty-five, something like that.

Volume of revenue. Bank cards, number of cards.
Pavlovich:
What volumes of cards are we talking about, cash in general, and how much were you paid for this?

Carder:
We were paid tears, as people said, when we met Bulgarians and Romanians in prison. It was 10% of the amount you withdrew. Well, I can say that one day our so-called, I don’t know who to call, curator, that is, the person who brought us up to speed, he disappeared, there was no contact for 3-4 days.
And we were collecting cash, and we simply didn’t have another person to contact to agree on anything at all, and what to do with the money, we were the only ones left there. And after 3-4 days, he finally got in touch and said, there, collect all the cash, here and there, count it. So, for, roughly speaking, 5 days, for the fact that we didn’t give up there, we collected all this money at the hotel.
And I was impressed by the picture then. That means Thai baht on a double bed of such a king size. And there on each side there was barely enough space to fit your butt in order to count them there. At that time, it was somewhere around 70 thousand euros, I think, something like that, for 3-4 days, not running along these streets.

Pavlovich:
And what kind of cards were there, from which banks? Or don’t you know what was inside?

Carder:
Do you mean what kind of information was there? Well, yes, there was from all over the world, then you could see it from anywhere. Australian, there, Latin America, the States, of course, India, there were European cards.

Pavlovich:
How much were the daily limits?

Carder:
Different, different limits. There, I'm saying, there were two cards, they probably existed there for the whole month, this press. That is, they went like to work. In the morning, she gave out, I think, around two thousand dollars. And in the evening, when 12 hours have passed, she gave the same amount the second time. And some, well, very quickly.
That is, for example, she gave 200-300, that's it, it no longer works, it's blocked.

Pavlovich:
And, in your opinion, where did these cards come from, did they appear at your supplier?

Carder:
I can only guess, I don't know for sure. There are also many combinations there. People who took this information, inserted, as they are called, say, skimmers into ATMs. They took this information using skimmers. There are people who sold this information. There are also bank employees who work directly with the criminal world.
They just make a duplicate. There are many ways.

Pavlovich:
And what were they recorded on? That is, on white blanks or on some real ones, or what? Or on a tape recorder?

Carder:
There were regular white ones, just with a ribbon, and there were some kind of machines, palm trees, so clean that the color barely resembled some kind of card.

Pavlovich:
Well, not cards, right? Not bank ones?

Carder:
No, not exactly like that, but without squeezing, without...

Pavlovich:
It’s a bit obvious to put a white one in an ATM, a camera will notice somewhere, people will notice in line.

Carder:
Well, of course, I agree. But there weren’t that many of them, but sometimes there were some.

Pavlovich:
Well, the amounts are clear, okay, about 70 thousand euros in 4-5 days. And in terms of the number of cards, how many did you work your gang with in 4-5 days?

Carder:
Yes, they also took them differently there, also always a different number of cards. Sometimes they would take maybe 100, you would split it between three people or you would have to pass it on to someone else. Sometimes you would have 15 in your pocket per day. It also varied. Sometimes it would be more than 30. 10%? Yes, yes, 10%.

Pavlovich:
I remember paying my own people 15% for such things. But, again, what I paid there, it might have been a lot, it might have been a little, but it almost never happened, well, so, probably, in 40% of cases there was only the possibility of control, how much was actually taken from it. And I think that everyone there was sneaking around normally.

Carder:
Well, naturally, what kind of control can there be? It’s very difficult to organize. It’s simple. Well, 15 is, it’s not 10 more fun.

Capturing criminals. Registration procedures, transporting criminals.
Pavlovich:
And as it were, it’s clear that the work isn’t very dirty, but it’s not very obvious, and I myself went there with someone else’s card, withdrew money more than once. How can you even go to jail for it? How exactly did they catch you? And was it just you, or did they bust the whole gang, who worked in Thailand?

Carder:
They caught me and my brother, unfortunately, the younger one. We violated absolutely everything, in my opinion, acceptable and unacceptable warnings of the security system. Again, thanks, in quotes, to this person who introduced us to the case, he didn’t just tell us that we couldn’t, he told us on the contrary, that you can ride the metro, you can ride here, you can ride there.
He didn’t tell us that we needed to change places. We hung around the same places, we skated on the same ice rinks, the metro, the cameras too, only later. None of the so-called, well, a la daily allowance, let's call it, yes, for a change of clothes, so that there was at least some minimal camouflage.
Although this is also very important, only then I understood their tails. It won't be difficult, that is, for a very long time, we were in Bangkok for almost a month, We did not change any location. It's a real abyss in this regard. Accordingly, they started calling the police at the bank. There in Pattaya, this credit card department is specially loaded with card holders. So they started shooting at the cameras, tracked me down.
Tracked down my hotel. And it turns out that Seryoga didn't find me back. And at one point we were having breakfast. We left breakfast, approached some station, I don't remember, the metro, we wanted to leave, and that's it, and we were caught right on the platforms, roughly speaking.

Pavlovich:
With cards?

Carder:
Well, I had some, yes. There were probably 11 of them, maybe something like that, there weren't many.

Pavlovich:
Well, quite a lot. So, did you work for about a month in total?

Carder:
Yes, yes, something like that, 29-28 days.

Pavlovich:
Well, how much did you earn during that time?

Carder:
Well, almost ten. Or even ten and earned.

Pavlovich:
Well, that is, not that much.

Carder:
If you weigh it on the scales later, it's all just pennies. Such a trifle, it seems.

Pavlovich:
Friends, how are things on Instagram? How is Mrs. Mizulina? Not all VPNs are blocked yet. In fact, this is not a joke, unfortunately, because a law came into force the other day that prohibits other sites from advertising VPN services. So listen carefully to what I'm about to say. I think you all know what a VPN is, so we will not dwell on this. But if suddenly you are not in the know, then know that a VPN service allows A.
Get access to any websites and applications blocked in your country. B. Replaces your IP address so that comrade major, if anything, goes on the wrong track. And C. Encrypts traffic, which is especially important when connecting to public Wi-Fi networks. And before we are all blocked, I hasten to tell you about the U-FAST VPN service, which we all use. Me, the People PRO team, our family and friends.
Of course, it is paid, but free trial access will allow you to feel all its charms, and not the major's baton in your ass. Of course, it does not keep logs, so any request from any law enforcement agencies will remain unanswered. Of course, it is fast, like a punch from Mike Tyson, but in addition to this, it allows you to check your IP for purity - risk score, fraud score and how other sites and services see you.
uFast VPN also uses Telegram to distribute VPN, so it cannot be blocked or removed from the App Store. UFast VPN is with you wherever there is a telegram. And finally, Roskomnadzor has been creating too many problems in VPN services in the last year. But U-Fast is always one step ahead, or even two. You can pay with crypto and not worry about your security, anonymity and access to Instagram and any other blocked resources.
You will find a link to U-Fast VPN in the description. Take it quickly before it is deleted. And even if you do not need it right now, still go to the bot to save for the future.

Carder:
They recorded about a hundred of something in the case. The rest was scattered right in front of us in pockets on BSM. He steps aside and on the humps, yes, this finger is drunk. You understand that everyone is on the floor. And you will have to sleep on the floor too. They always believe the cops here, no matter what they write. There were all kinds of drugs. Cash was circulating there. The guy who signed this paper, it wasn't me, I swear.
I watched it all as if from the side.

Pavlovich:
So what next? The cops said, you're arrested, they took you to the police station.

Carder:
No, actually, it turns out, they took us to this booth, the one at the station for police officers. And they started searching us there, it turns out. At first, they were neat, quiet, like, you know, until they find us. Then they found the cards, twisted our arms, threw on handcuffs. At that point, they already knew where my hotel was. And we, right along with them, that is, you have bracelets here, they threw a T-shirt on you.
And together with us, together with all the people, they got into a regular subway car, and rode the subway to my hotel. There was also a similar picture, these looks from the cars at you. We walked down the street, went into the hotel, searched, there they turned the room upside down, they also found a card in the room. After that, a Belarusian drove up there, by the way, from Vesnyanka, Philip, with the cops, who worked there, as it turned out later, he had been there for more than one year.
That's where they beat him, scratched his car and the wheels. Well, in short, he said, like, I've arrived, I'll help you, tell me where the second hotel is, they were trawling there, it will be better for you. Naturally, we didn't tell him. And they never found a second room. This whole story went on until about evening, then they threw us into cars, we went to Pattaya from Bangkok. And the employees from the banks had already joined us in Pattaya, they arrived.
Something there also lasted a long, long time until late at night.

Pavlovich:
But they are usually in no hurry. Sometimes you come to the bank here. I had a funny story, I come to the bank, my card doesn't work, well, the PIN code doesn't work, what, in short, I thought the card was damaged and so on, I sat there for a while, got to lunch, sat in line, in short, an hour and a half or two there. Well, fortunately, I wasn't alone, I was chatting with a friend, sitting. I went there, she says, so, a PIN code, well, how many symbols do you have there? I say, well, four there.
She says, but we have six, like. And I just, well, stupidly forgot that, well, six, well, I don’t often use the PIN code there, you transfer it using the main scan via a QR code, and I just really stupidly forgot that I had 6. And judging by the fact that a simple operation, literally exchanging a few words, took me 2 hours, maybe even more, I realized that they were in no hurry at all.

Carder:
No, they are definitely in no hurry. Sabay-sabay. 24/7.

Pavlovich:
Those guys from the bank arrived, and it all went on until the night.

Carder:
Yes, yes. They were rolling back the cards through a laptop. Checking where there was a heart attack, where there wasn’t, or whatever they were checking there. Well, most likely. And then they left. They threw us into the monkey house, right there in Pattaya. You could see the sea from the cage, the sound of the surf. There was probably cash in the room, like a million baht.
Yes, something like that, they wrote it down in the case, about a hundred or something, the rest was quickly scattered around the feed right in front of us and also this whole story with Philip's translation, it's all better for you, the less we write down in the case, the more fun it will be later, it will be easier to solve everything now while the trail is hot.

Pavlovich:
So who is this Philip, I still don't understand his role.

Carder:
When they put us on the fleet, it turns out they picked up some trash for him, because they had been working with him for a long time, and they realized that we needed a translator of the Russian language, and so he arrived.

Pavlovich:
Ah, well, essentially he was a translator, I get it.

Carder:
Essentially yes, a translator-informer, let's say.

Pavlovich:
The money was stolen, Alyambad, well, okay, by a cop. Why let it go to waste, better to bring it to the families.

Carder:
Then we spent the night there, somehow. The next day they took us back from Pattaya to Bangkok. And on the way there was this press conference, as they like to do there every day, you know. We caught someone there, someone, and there were a bunch of these journalists. At one point we also stopped somewhere there. And they sat us at a table together. Then
the bracelets back, then these T-shirts under the table on the bracelets back, so that you can’t see. But I also don’t understand why they need that. And it seems like a small hall, there aren’t many people, there, the trash is lined up in the back, there, you know, like that, all on shoulder straps, there, in this uniform. Then they give the signal, that was also a sight. Where did so many of them come from, by God, it seemed to me at that moment, the cameras were just flying at you.
Well, how many were there, maybe thirty, maybe more, an exploding gun, if... Yeah, what’s going on at all? Well, there's a map laid out on the table, naturally, 80-90% aren't ours. I've never seen anyone like them. No pictures, nothing. Neat, more, more.

Pavlovich:
Well, the cops got their own. Bankokbank, Kryungsri, Kryungthai. The journalists are still there. And did your handlers try to help you somehow, did they contact you or did the connection break off?

Carder:
Well, after, it turns out, after that, I don't know, photo shoot that I just told you about, they brought us to one of the police stations already in Bangkok directly. Some Thai woman showed up there, again through Philip, some fashionable Thai woman in gold, I remember. In her map there's Louis, you know, so dressed up, you can tell right away.
And so he says, she says, she's with the cops now, she has lightning-fast connection there, we'll sort everything out here now, we need, in short, urgent money. And he says, well, at least let me call. They gave us a phone, it turns out we dialed that guy. He says, well, how much do they want? They asked for thirty, thirty thousand American. He says, well, that's a lot, let's break it less, and what's up with your money anyway, is there anything left somewhere or not?
Well, they knew they couldn't find the second room. We call, we say, well, that's a lot, the Saras immediately start screaming, you've lost your mind, you've become impudent, let's throw them back in the cage, They're closing it back here. About two hours, they're coming in two and a half. They're coming from a new one. Come out here, let's talk back. In short, you were super lucky. The Thai woman actually agreed, decided.
We ask for twenty. We say, give me the phone. We call again. I say, take up to twenty. He says, there's only ten. We say, okay, give me ten. And Seryoga's ten, that is, my brother's, which he earned, is in the room there, there. You just need to go and pick it up. He says, okay, we'll try to organize someone there now.
Although there was no one in Bangkok before that, that's where the song begins. Well, they were just afraid that we would either rat them out or kill them on the spot. Well, then we get in touch somewhere, again in about two hours, to understand whether they got to the room or not. And there was such a funny phrase that we took all the things there, cleared the room, took the kid's documents, took this, took that, didn't find the granny, the granny needs to hide better.
Well, everything works out. There is only ten that he offered. We don't have our ten, and there is not enough money, and the Thai woman is angry, the angry cops are all closing us back. After that, there are already some negotiations, specifically in the hot phase, while the papers have not yet gone anywhere further. No one has seen them, and accordingly, they are already stopped.
And all this increases in value, and the more, well, you know yourself, the more people know, the more difficult it will become and unrealistic.

Pavlovich:
But they also have a tactic that they offer you a normal amount right away. You start to show off, then tomorrow, the day after tomorrow you mature, well, yes, they tell you an even bigger amount. And the more you show off, the higher the price. In the end, as a rule, on the second, third, fourth day everyone starts paying, but the amount is already two, three, four, five times bigger than the original.
So, jokes in this regard are really bad.

Carder:
Well, there were no jokes there, in principle, that's how it was. And in principle there was an opportunity, but again, how much could you trust this Thai woman, theoretically, if this twenty had shown up, what is the probability that the words would have coincided with the actions, that they would have really jumped out.

The court. The prison environment.
Pavlovich:
So what, they transfer you to prison, right? This is all the temporary detention center and other monkey houses.

Carder:
Yes, after that it turns out that we spend another night in Bangkok in the monkey house, after that we are taken to the so-called preliminary court. I don’t even know what they call it there, but that was the courthouse, yes. They took us into a small room, where, probably, some student of some law faculty in Bangkok was doing an internship or something, and she just read to us, apparently in Thai, I didn’t understand anything then, and, of course, there was no translator there.
That is, they sat us down, but on the other side a female student said something, yes, yes, they waved mushrooms, no, no, nothing was clear, they took us back, put us in a paddy wagon and took us away for repairs. And there, of course, all these exotic pictures began. Pavlovich

:
And where did they take us, I didn’t hear?

Carder:
Roland, that's what the prison is called there, that's the same prison that your previous guest from Thailand was. They keep suspects there, prisoners who haven't received their sentence yet, or have received it, but it doesn't exceed 15 years. All these people are left there. As soon as the number rolls over 15, you no longer have the right to be there, you are transported somewhere else.
They brought us there, it turns out there were two of us, and there were two drunk Thais, well, they were behaving very aggressively there while we were inside, well, when we got inside, there was the first gate, the second, we go into the courtyard, plus or minus such an outfit, to the palm trees there, then through the metal detectors, we go straight in then, where there is such a corridor and
to the side there are entrances to the barracks. And it turns out we are going. I am the last one. My brother is third in front of me. Two of these Thais are in front. And behind me is the garbage. One in front of us. Two on the sides. And just as we cross the metal scooter, as it's called, into the corridor. Just some trash... They have these truncheons, only wooden. Not rubber, wooden.
This one looks like Malava. He steps aside and on the humps behind these drunk fingers. Bang! He falls again from above, a second time and the same on the humps. Bang! On the ground. I see how Malov's back just contracts like this, he bends his neck. I think, well, fuck, what's this? And he turns around like, good-bye-bye-bye, phalang, pass-by. And they just gave them a beating just because they behaved so aggressively.
And we got away with it in this case. And I think, well, this is what they came for, this is what they came for. It turns out that the two of us were led further, and we started them on this, on the lawn, in Altuz. By the way, they didn’t even go in there, they throw everyone into the transit barracks, where everyone then goes. They took them somewhere further, I don’t know. That evening, only the two of us went in.

Pavlovich:
Well, it turns out that you’re sitting in this prison, already waiting for your investigation and trial.

Carder:
Yes, yes.

Pavlovich:
Well, and the atmosphere was generally cool.

Carder:
Well, it’s just that when these gates opened, we went in there, entered and saw all this. Well, I couldn’t believe my eyes that this could be. It’s just, well, there’s no room at all. The yard is like a matchbox, it seems. An incredible number of people, simply incredible, smaller, so many people.

Pavlovich:
Well, how many, in your opinion?

Carder:
There were about, maybe 600 or so, 700 in that barracks, but that was still plus or minus a little. Plus we went in right away, we didn't feel it, because we were moved more or less towards evening. Those tseks who were cleaning were taking a shower, we were with them. And the main mass was already closed. It turns out they woke us up, we took the so-called shower at the whistles.
And when we got up there, we realized that everyone was on the floor. And we would have to sleep on the floor too. And that also immediately broke our brains. There was no room to lie down, there was no room to walk, body after body lay like that, one after another, legs crossed here and there, it was hard to describe, that was the first impression.
I couldn’t believe my eyes or my own feelings. And then the next morning, when everyone had already opened the door, when we went out into the yard, and when this whole mass poured out into the yard, damn, that was just... Is it cold at night? In December, January there are 2-3 weeks when it’s pretty cold. The Chinese even give us winter clothes, get them out. They have jackets, down jackets. Punkerukhi, I don’t know where they get them from, but they have them.
It’s a pretty cool hike, especially at night. I even remember, we wore leggings and some pants and everything long for 2-3 weeks in Bangwana, it was still pretty unpleasant to sleep. Well, it's like 2-3 weeks in winter. Yes, of course, it's always hot.

Opinion on the justice system, prison.
Pavlovich:
And what struck you most, surprised you, or horrified you in prison, besides the fact that there were hundreds of people, thousands?

Carder:
Well, probably what struck me most was the very essence, the very system of their justice, and the way they write out sentences. Without thinking at all, they knock there PZ, PZ. The maximum penalty there is always so tailored that the court always believes the cops, no matter what they write. And what do the cops do? They don't have it, they have evidence. They just throw everything into your case at the maximum penalty and that's it, and hand it over. And the judge, in principle, doesn't look there, doesn't check anything.
Just yeah, well, here the maximum is 50. Here PZ, A, can't you shake it? Well, okay, 50 or 25. And that's probably what amazed me the most, both then and now. Plus this amnesty system, these crazy numbers behind us.

Pavlovich:
You're talking about the justice system now, but I mean in prison.

Carder:
Well, first of all, the lack of so-called sleeping places. That is, you sleep on concrete, specifically on concrete. They give you three blankets, one on the floor, to be occupied twice, so that you can at least roll one under your head and cover yourself with the third. And until we got mattresses for ourselves, they wrote to embassies, embassies, this whole foreign community, and after two years they gave out such mattresses.
But before that, I had such worn-out ones here on my hips, on my bones, down to a dry spot on my skin, just because you can't sleep firmly, you feel pain and hard everywhere, if you're such an underfed person. Plus, there are an incredible number of people, and they are such noisy Thais, and because of that, you don't have, well, you lack some kind of noise calm.
You are constantly being crushed by this noise, the way they behave, the way they shout, thousands of people, and everyone behaves the same way. Constant noise. The lights are not turned off at night. I mean, well, how can you sleep?
How can you even call this a dream? They made these, what are they called, masks there, and with this mask it is incomprehensible to me, and unusual, and cuts, well, that is all the pleasure. The unsanitary conditions are also terrible, the water is supplied from the river, it blooms, there are filters there, it also blooms a little there, it turns out to be drinking water.
For a thousand people, you can also imagine. What kind of analysis is there, if it ... They washed this filter, two days later it was already blooming green again.

Pavlovich:
Could there be some kind of dysentery from this water?

Carder:
Generally mild. Well, they fight this dysentery there. More pepper in food, you know. And in this way ... Well, but it works. I can say that pepper, of course, is deadly, but it works in this regard.

Help from the consuls of the Russian Federation.
Pavlovich:
With the embassy, you say, consuls, ambassadors and others wrote to a human rights organization, you are from Belarus, that is, some Belarusian consul here helped you or what?

Carder:
No, I didn’t really help the consuls, parents wrote from the other side, something elementary, you know, for books to pass on, but they can’t do anything, essentially, and are not particularly eager. During all this time, I saw how embassies from different countries behave. I can answer, probably, the Iranian one has some weight, plus or minus, and maybe a desire to change something or help their own somehow.
The Australian one is also kind of a stretch. And at the moment, it had a very strong influence on the fact that books were allowed to us. The Ukrainian consul came once, and she even went to the bankvan. We didn’t see her ourselves, but it was such a loud event then. She went inside, talked with this, pumped up very seriously in this regard.
And so they were probably one of the decisive factors, after which, after some time, we were finally allowed to raise the books on camera.

The contingent of convicts. The right to the death penalty.
Pavlovich:
Are there more foreigners or Thais among the prisoners?

Carder:
Thais, of course, 90% are Thais. In second place, probably, are the Chinese from this ten, and then you can count on your fingers the Romanians, Turks, Bulgarians, Russians, Ukrainians.

Pavlovich:
But what are the Thais mainly for?

Carder:
93% are drugs. By the way, the most severe punishment that people receive in Thailand is for drugs.

Pavlovich:
Well, it was in that old film with Nicole Kidman, the dangerous Bangkok... Bangkok Hilton, to be more precise.

Carder:
Bangkok Hilton. It is the famous Bank Wan.

Pavlovich:
But now, as far as I can judge, the punishment has been softened, because, if you believe that film, there, I don’t know, for the smallest half a gram or gram, and so on and so forth, you could be exchanged, or even shot. Now, as far as I know, everything is much simpler with this.

Carder:
How can I say, I saw people there who, for 5 grams, yes, he received the death penalty too. They just didn’t shoot him only because it’s not accepted now.

Pavlovich:
Moratorium?

Carder:
No, they reserved the right. By the way, they reserved this right for themselves when we were there. Once, I also remember that, that day, such a gloomy atmosphere that day. That is, they announced to us that today we would go to the cells early. And the Thais there are already starting to ask why. And it turned out that the time had come, this is already a 10-year term, if a country does not execute any of the prisoners, then the right to the death penalty is automatically taken away from it.
Who takes it away? Well, some world organization, I don’t remember exactly now. I don’t remember, but it’s definitely a thing, there is such a rule. And so the Thais, in order to retain the right to the death penalty, executed one guy then, that day. They brought us in earlier, it was so quiet, it was eerie.
Well, you know, even these Thais are always noisy, always like that, on flat tires. But you don’t know who? No, I don’t know, I know that it was Taiz, I know that he, I think, was even chosen for the third time in order to retain the right to the death penalty.

Opportunities to acquire things in prison.
Pavlovich:
And what can you decide there in prison for money and not only?

Carder:
Well, now, probably, some very small things can be resolved there, I don’t know, maybe because when we arrived, there was a military coup and we came to power.

Pavlovich:
What year was that?

Carder:
2015, and they started cleaning everything up in their own way, you know, cleaning out the prisons. And before that, there was literally, I mean, everything, that is, old inmates even speculated that it was even possible to form a woman there at a certain time. Well, I don’t know about women, but everything else was there 100%. There were all kinds of drugs there, cash was circulated there, there were boxes like this, you know, waist-high.
Somewhere in the width, too, I don’t know, 60-70 centimeters. And this entire box was filled from top to bottom with cash. And the cops didn’t touch it? No, the cops also made money on it. There was an Australian there who, I think, served 16. Then he went to Australia to finish his 30. And he said, the cops asked, these cops who sat on a stool, so that you could go into the building, well, go up to the hut, yes, because there was a draft, there was a fan, there was a TV at that time, there were your jokes, well, there were drugs too.
And in order not to fry in the sun, people would go out and come in. And they would pay the cops to go into the building. The same thing to go out. Because it's a conditional rule. And the cops, even the lowest ones, would ask for extra shifts just to sit around and earn some extra money.
They would wear, I don't know, branded clothes there. We even had an original Christian Dior towel next to the toilet in 2017. That's from the old days.

Pavlovich:
Well, I mean, that money, they kind of knew that there was some big common fund there, they didn't touch it, you say, a box of money.

Carder:
No, no, I didn't touch it, no one touched it, that is, they had everything they had. Well, you understand, if these stool-sitters asked for a shift, then what were the people who were in serious uniform earning. They were always with those casinos, with Macau at that time, I think.

Pavlovich:
What about phones?

Carder:
There were phones too, but back then, back then there were phones. And they even found them, they even dug them up in our barracks once. One old phone, some kind of rewound in a bag, sealed.

Pavlovich:
But could you just buy a phone there or did you have to drag it in?

Carder:
I don’t know how it happened before, but when we weren’t there, there weren’t any, not even any options regarding that. Alcohol? There used to be alcohol, again, back in those wild times, when there was everything, when the guy said we smoked ice to wake up in the morning, and heroin in the evening, so that, well, there was everything there then, there was a casino operator inside, literally anything.
Literally. Everything that was on the outside, they had too. But when we lived there, there was nothing at all. At all. No way to solve anything, no way to pay anyone. No

way to contact loved ones.
Pavlovich:
In short, I ended up at the wrong time. In general. Is it possible to contact relatives then? No, say, illegal phones?

Carder:
Only letters, yes. And towards the end of our term, when we were sitting there, they introduced this service, you could contact on line. Once a month, probably once every two months. You had the opportunity. Parents on the other side register on line, order a call and put you in line. They take you out for 15 minutes to talk on line, on a video call.

Pavlovich:
And the punishment cell in Kazan?

Carder:
I haven’t been to the punishment cell there myself. There was a guy, a friend of ours, from St. Petersburg. He was carrying a letter from home once, received it, and wanted an answer, well, and to reread, you know, the letter in the evening. Such an expensive, luxurious pleasure there. And he received a letter from his wife and daughter, and he simply carried it up to the cell to reread it in the evening in silence, in peace.
The cops noticed, took the letter, put a tick, and two weeks later he went to the punishment cell, there, in 2-3 weeks, they loudly announced. When he came back, he said, I asked to stay there a little longer, for an extra week or two. You're alone, silence, there's no noise, no hubbub, there aren't these crazy Thais around.

Time until the trial.
Pavlovich:
How long did you sit there before the trial, it turns out?

Carder:
Before the trial, it was nine months. Yes, we were in Romand for nine months. It turns out they took us twice to the preliminary hearing, to the so-called negotiations. There wasn't even a prosecutor there, there was an assistant, I think, who was saying, "This is for you, this is for you, this is for you." This is already a picture of a table, he's sitting on that side, we're sitting on this side in the middle. Here is the translator and our lawyer, and here are the charges, yes.
And they are all in these cuffs, like a smell, and you are barefoot with black feet, there after the transfers, in shackles on your feet, in handcuffs, in some, I don’t know, dirty, smelly, sweaty. And so he promises you that perhaps you will be there for three and a half years for the first time. Then we came to the second hearing, to the second such meeting.
Already there, for ten, they started mentioning some numbers. Ten, maybe they translate it incorrectly, ask again, please. But when already in court they said ten, it was generally... The third time we went specifically to court. And after nine months we received the verdict and then transported us to Bangkok.

Interaction with the lawyer and the prosecutor.
Pavlovich:
And there the prosecutor also requests, there, I ask to sentence to such-and-such a term, there, yes, your lawyer says something, or you yourself, judging, then make a decision?

Carder:
Yes, yes, lawyer, we didn’t say anything, no one really asked. The lawyer stood up, there was already some kind of counting, I don’t remember, the fourth or fifth, there was also a Pierre Cardin there, a-la fashionable, with connections, ignorant, experienced. Everything he said, he says, in my experience, you need to a-la bow, that we are guilty, there, spilled.

The first words of the interpreter. The verdict.
Carder:
Well, that’s how he wrote his note, which he read there in court. The prosecutor, in turn, said, no way, to hit us in full, to the maximum. Well, she listened, left, there, I don’t know, for about 15 minutes. It was still terribly cold. The air conditioner was on, we were barefoot again. We froze while all this was happening. Yes, she returned to the court, said, it got even colder, even colder.

Pavlovich:
A woman, right?

Carder:
Yes, a woman.

Pavlovich:
And what did she say?

Carder:
She said... By the way, these were the first words I understood in Thai without an interpreter. Asi pi means "fifty years", that's how it's literally translated. Well, I understood when she said it, I just looked to the side, there, I don't remember which side, though, at our assistant-translator. And she just after these... She turned white, her face even took on an ashen tint.
And then I realized that it was probably only 50 years, that the sentence was announced. I don't want to embellish it here, but, in my opinion, they then force you to sign this sentence. And, in my opinion, I then had an incorporeal experience that the guy who signed this paper, it wasn't me, I swear to you. That is, I watched as if it were all from the side, that there was some building, some two guys who looked alike.
One looks very much like me, the other one looks like my brother. And some people in jackets. Who is it? The judge.

The speaker?:
And...

Carder:
But I'm telling you that the one who signed the document, it was definitely not me. Because I saw all of this from the outside.

Pavlovich:
50. And does it come into force immediately? Or is there an opportunity to appeal, as always?

Carder:
You have 90 days to file a petition for singling. But during those 90 days, our lawyer didn't even show up for an E-visit to inquire, consult, and so on. Time has shown, and it's probably good that it happened that way, because we would probably have clung to these ghostly, illusory last chances and opportunities. And on the other side, probably, the parents, the people who helped us, realized that this was a lost cause.
At that point, they had also poured in an incredible amount of money and decided that it would be better this way. Well, that's how it turned out. Practice has shown.

Where was the lawyer from?
Pavlovich:
So where was your lawyer from? Where did he come from?

Carder:
When they brought us to the pretrial detention center for repairs, yes, on the second or third day they called us in for a visit. We were still really surprised. One of the helpers came, a Russian guy, with him there was a girl. He was her assistant. And this girl was in close contact with the card players, she collaborated with the Rouge, helped and pulled out Bulgarians, and Ukrainians, and Russians.
Well, that is, she had experience. Again, all this was at the time when all this madness was happening there in prison, when everything was there, when all the corruption was on Solidol and Ointment.

Corruption.
Carder:
And when the military came to power, they began to be afraid of the cops, because they also began to close them down. And, accordingly, all her connections, all her connections, they became a little, became tougher.
It wasn't that easy to decide. But that former glory of hers, she still spoke. So he came from her, from that woman, and said, like, give me your contacts, phone numbers, I'll give you a way to contact your parents. Now there's still an opportunity, while there's no back and forth, we'll decide with you. Well, and so they used this path to contact the parents.
The parents, naturally, want to get to us, we only keep in touch through them, that is, to explain something there. They tell them what they want. Well, you see, it's a broken telephone, when you seem to want to tell the parents that maybe there's no need to give anything there, no need to do anything, they tell them what they want to say. You can't do anything, you can't change anything, because the letter is there, which, thank God, if it gets there, it will go there in 2-2.5 months.
One way, right?

The maximum term. The state after hearing the verdict.
Pavlovich:
Walking for 2-2.5 months? Well, yeah, yeah, that happened too. And what happened then? So you come back at 50 and say that 50 is because she couldn't give you 304 because of the number of cards that were confiscated from you?

Carder:
Yeah, yeah, that was the maximum term for card 50 that we received.

Pavlovich:
And your brother also gets 50?

Carder:
Yeah, 304 for me, they'll give him 304.

Pavlovich:
They tell you 304 right away, you're like, in shock. Then, no, I'm kidding, 50. You're like, oh, 50, that's bullshit. And on one leg, yeah. And your brother there, well, you say, he saw himself as if from the outside, and what about him? Didn't he go crazy there? Didn't he lose consciousness?

Carder:
No, well, he didn't lose consciousness, but he was also, of course, pretty shocked, if you can even call it that.

Pavlovich:
And then what? So they transport you to prison, yes, you, I just remember myself after the sentences, there, you are in such a state of prostration, probably for a day or two, so, one hundred percent. But my sentences were much softer. And what was yours, by the way? Well, ten was the maximum. Well, they asked for fourteen, and I think they gave me ten. I was like, well, fuck, well, ten, ten.
And when, this is what happened the second time, when they asked for 3.5 for me the first time in the first case, they asked for 3.5 and gave me 6, well, 5 to be more precise, and then they added another year, in short, they asked for 3.5, but gave me 5, that’s when I was much more upset than when they asked for 14 and gave me 10.

Returning to the pretrial detention center. The difference between a pretrial detention center and a prison.
Pavlovich:
So what, did they bring you back to the pretrial detention center, did they bring you back?

Carder:
Yes, they brought you to the pretrial detention center, spent the night, I think, maybe a day or two later, in the evening they simply announced you, took you out of the cell and threw you in, we went in a group with someone else, me, Maloy and probably a couple more people.

Pavlovich:
So it was already to another prison, some kind of colony, right, or what is it?

Carder:
Well, yes, yes, a prison. Because we couldn't stay in the remand prison, I told you, there's 15 years maximum.

Pavlovich:
Well, you said it was a strict regime and so on, but how is it different from a pretrial detention center?

Carder:
Listen, in essence it's not much different, only it could be noted that there was a little more space there. But there were also more people, accordingly, but still some space, some free path remained. Plus we were lucky there, we stayed in a barrack on the sixth floor, where there was shade, there was a canteen built in the middle, where we ate and during the day we could write a letter or read a book there, again in the shade, but it was seriously depriving.
The heat there, of course, is crazy scary, we, plus something calmer, you know, terms, other people sit there for a very long time, the overwhelming majority there and it is already so measured, everything is set up, alat is more leisurely or something, but otherwise it is not particularly different, I even remember counting our season there were counting rhymes about the anthem, rising under the flag, songs sung, there, to the king or someone else, maybe some Buddhist ones.
And we even went there the first time, in Bangkok there was none of this. And then the military pressed, pressed, pressed, and it rolled up to there too. And at first the Thais there, actually, say, well, what are you kidding me about? What kind of circus is this? This is bullshit in general. We will not go. And there were even snacks with the cops a couple of times, but in the end they got rid of it there too.

The sentences of other prisoners.
Carder:
So to say that it is somehow very different there, according to the cards they gave him 15 and he served 7, I think. There you see, he was also released before us, the meaning is just a heavyweight and when you arrive there and they greet you with such words there, like I don’t know, Thais run up to you,
nothing for which they closed your loan there, like chin-chin mignoy boar leo boar understand boar leo a little bit of time there for the card there they will quickly cut it now one amnesty you will go home do you think he is joking with you now or is he serious. And when you gradually start to get to know people there, talk, how long they are sitting, what they are sitting there for, you understand that they are not joking, that you really were lucky with this fifty kopecks and such a lucky guy.
There were people there who were sitting for 26. He is sitting right in this barrack, he has never even changed barracks. They put him in prison 26 years ago. He's in this building, working quietly in a shop. I saw a guy, though, from another barracks, there on Banishche, who's sitting there for thirty. 17, 21, you know, 17.

Pavlovich:
What are they mostly in for?

Carder:
Drugs. Everything with such numbers is mainly drugs. Because they either give you a life sentence or death. And it jumps from death to life sentence, from life sentence to some first number, probably 50. And then drug amnesties are cut very slowly.
They cut, but these are still very small numbers, it is almost unnoticeable.

Pavlovich:
But in Belarus, for the last 15 years, there has been no amnesty for drugs, they haven’t even cut a year off for anyone. Well, I remember once, for the first part, well, I don’t know, for a joint of grass, yes, for using it, I think you got it, but for the last 10-15 years, probably, they haven’t, so it’s completely out of the question. And what about food and living conditions?

Food and living conditions.
Carder:
Well, I have no right to complain about the food at all, because even if you have no money, you definitely won’t die of hunger there. Yes, there’s rice, yes, there’s some local soup, but it’s in such quantities that you can get more there if you hang around a little bit on a patch of ground. It’s pretty decent food with some adjustments, you get used to it and it’s fine there.
If you have some money, there’s a store there, you can buy candied fruit, vegetables, some greens, other goodies, some sweets, coffee, tea, well, that is, there were just nominations there, I don’t know, there’s an unreal amount. I’ve probably seen it in bags on the street, she passes the soup, in Bangkok, I’ve seen it or not, on an elastic band, that’s the kind of bags she came in.

Difficult moments.
Pavlovich:
But the everyday ones, of course, aren’t that great. What is the most, well, I don’t know, I don’t want to remember at all in prison, the most psychologically difficult thing, well, besides the term, of course, of 50 years?

Carder:
Well, gays, I guess let’s call a spade a spade. Gays, their numbers, their local attitude towards them. For them, it’s, you know, such a, well, highlight in society. Especially the latter ones are shown on TV, they are promoted, they are at the top, they are just such stars there. In Tveraga there are also some percentage of them, but also such a decent number. They are in every barracks.

Pavlovich:
Well, how many percent? 5, 10 or 40?

Carder:
No, probably forty, of course. Well, I don’t know, out of a thousand people, well, maybe I scratched my nose not because I wanted to lie, I’m just remembering. But there were, well, twenty people who were really noticeable, maybe even more, you just don’t turn to them later.

Pavlovich:
Well, that's, in short, 2-3 percent, plus or minus, at least two, if out of a thousand twenty.

Carder:
Well, again, from barrack to barrack, it's all different. Here at Romanze, when we were waiting here, there was also right there in one barrack, well, definitely more than 5 percent. What a gang it was.

Pavlovich:
And what, you didn't like them?

Carder:
Damn, that's it. Well, you know how they are treated in our region. And there they are the opposite. That is, everywhere with the cops they are the very first, there, I don't know, somewhere some place in the same store, they are also there, well, you know, in terms of respect for them, and they behave, accordingly, so openly, well, like everyone else.
This can't help but shock, maybe it doesn't bother you somehow. But you, accordingly, can't do anything about it. You are closed, limited in your actions.

Pavlovich:
Like with us, they are not lower castes there, right?

Carder:
No, on the contrary, they are a little half a step higher caste there. There was even this from words, I don’t know, I can’t say what I saw with my own eyes, the Ukrainian guys said they were sitting on Plombrem before they were transferred to Bomblan and they said that the cops there generally organized some kind of a business, they gathered everyone, not only are there
these faggots, yes, there are also converted ones, so-called lady-boys.

Pavlovich:
Well, these transgender, yes.

Carder:
And there are some, you know, made ones, that I was just in shock, if I hadn’t seen it with my own eyes, I wouldn’t have believed that he was the best, the best guy there. And so the cops figured it out, they say they gathered all these well-made former guys, put them in one barracks and took such money from the prisoners so that you could get on a date, moreover, one Ukrainian also said that you could wear
a wedding with one of these representatives until the end of your term and you pay the cops and pay this peredvizhnik so that he agrees to be your official wife there until the end of your term, and that’s what happened. Whether this was true or not, I am inclined to believe that it was, because again, in the pretrial detention center in my barracks, on weekends, the cops did not come out of their booths at a certain time,
when on Saturday and Sunday they would stretch out tents from blankets, close the doors, and the Chinese would line up in front of them, smartly dressed, civilian-style, combed, and cut.

Difficulty in obtaining books.
Pavlovich:
And you said that it was difficult to even obtain books there, right? That is, the consul there helped you obtain books. What was wrong with the books?

Carder:
And I don’t know what was wrong with them. Maybe you can help me answer this question logically? Because when we ask the commander, one of the officers, why you can’t take the books when she lifts you up, I don’t know, here’s his answer. How this could be explained, I have no explanation.

Pavlovich:
But they can only be smuggled somehow, right?

Carder:
Yes, yes, they paid, gave milk or sweets to the people who cleaned the cells during the day, and they, accordingly, could somehow bring in, well, also, there are different types of garbage. Some understand that it is idiotic to ban books, and he closes them, he knows that you are carrying this book in a blanket, and he just pats you in the field, like checking, he knows that it is a book, well, and lets you through.
Well, they brought in in different ways. They were there once a month, maybe, sometimes more often, sometimes less often. They carried out a search, all these books were brought back. Well, and then little by little it was all brought in again.

Pavlovich:
Well, are the garbage men generally normal? Didn't they do anything cruel there?

Carder:
In general, I can say, yes, that they, in principle, the Thais themselves are such a good-natured people. To be honest, they are quite, well, kind, yes, such grown-up children. That's how I would characterize it. So, for the most part, yes, there was nothing like that there. There were some guys who openly hated foreigners. They talked about it during head counts, at every opportunity.
But there were two or three people there. And mostly it was fine.

Diseases and their treatment.
Pavlovich:
And you mentioned off-camera that it was because of the stuffiness and other things. Well, I live here myself, I understand perfectly well what the climate is like. And especially behind bars, you can't really help when you want to. Many people got sick with all sorts of skin diseases, including you, I also suffered from them, and what was it anyway?

Carder:
Yes, a couple of times I got this kind of itch, I don't know how to describe it. I don't know if it was just itch, that one, and I hope that it wasn't that. But because the air is humid, the air is constantly stuffy, the shower is limited, sweat and dirt of this dust, it constantly settles on you, and some kind of, you know, cumulative effect occurs, and then you just start scratching, well, this feeling is everywhere.
And the more you scratch, the more you want to. And for this there were these pills, tiny-tiny, there, I don’t know, there, in general, well, very small, but they were just some kind of killer. And I think that they were not so much for the itching, although, maybe, they also had some effect. But they knocked you out really badly. That is, in the morning they... You switched off so that in the morning they wake you up, you are like, you know, you barely float out of there, like from some kind of such a state.

Pavlovich:
But these were, apparently, anti-allergic, because everyone had antihistamines, yes, like suprastin, diphenhydramine. Dimedrol is not a dream book, in fact, as many of us in the Soviet Union think. It is an antihistamine, that is, an anti-allergy medicine. When a viper bit my dog in Belarus right in the nose, we gave her dimedrol. She survived normally, without an antidote, without anything. Dogs somehow tolerate snake venom easier, one.
Plus we gave her diphenhydramine. And you, apparently, were also given something for allergies, and it simply has a sedative effect. The fact that if you read even suprastin is harmless, the instructions for it say try not to drive after taking it, because it can kill you.

Carder:
Maybe, maybe, definitely. Well, and they gave them all these pills en masse, all sorts of them. Some ointment there didn’t work at all, in my opinion. That is, it felt like it was smeared somewhere, and it started itching even more in that place. And there are also these insects, the Chinese called them Godzilla, it’s generally a small creature, the size of a fingernail, striped, it has a little body, red and black.
That was a very dangerous thing.

Pavlovich:
But what does it look like, I don’t understand? A centipede or what is it? Who is it? Well, no, it doesn't look like a centipede.

Carder:
An ant? There it is, yes, maybe like an ant, only with wings, oblong. It sits on your skin, and where it crawled, it remains, it's just like a burn. And when, if you're sleeping at that time, and you don't feel it, and it crawled over you there for a good bit somewhere, then the next day, or the day after, it's a terrible sight. I've seen such types, there, as if they were slashed with something or there was a pull.
I was simply afraid of this fly and tried at the slightest movement at night, you know, somewhere it seems like something, you're crawling, you just jump up, damn, well God forbid.

Medicine in prison.
Pavlovich:
If you know what it is, write in the comments, because I don't even have any guesses what kind of crap it is. And in general with medicine, because the terms are long and the problems are different from internal organs to dentistry, that is, was it somehow solved or nothing? Everything is sad.

Carder:
It was difficult. You had to go to the hospital in another barrack. Getting there is also not easy there. I had a whole separate story with the dentist there. Usually they give you paracetamol and some kind of snot, also yellow, some kind of pill, etc. They will combine the same set. If something serious, well, you can somehow get through to all this, but the hospital places are also, you understand, limited for some kind of former politicians or influential prisoners in their past lives.
Everyone is busy there, it is not easy to get there. Besides, the dentist is only there, if you are already dying, then maybe they will somehow register you there and even then it is not a fact that you will get there the next day.

Pavlovich:
Do they treat teeth or pull them out right away?

Carder:
They pull it out more. That's why I bit there. I was trying to treat one of the teeth, and he kept wanting. No, there's nothing left to treat. Go ahead, go ahead. Then he didn't call me for almost a year. I endured, endured, and endured there too. I went to have it pulled out. I blindly knew how he would pull me out, this specialist, who... On the first visit he tells me, I went to Japan, on the second visit in Germany, and on the third, he says, I'm in the States.
I say, well, I understand, that's it, I'm with you. When he started pulling that tooth, I don't know, he tortured me for about forty minutes, I guess. I was sweating myself, and called an older assistant there. I couldn't pull him out with the old one, and he himself couldn't do it.

Pavlovich:
Listen, well, now, in fact, they pull teeth. I just pulled them out there, well, at school, yes, at kindergarten, at school, there, well, maybe even milk. Well, not dairy, probably, not dairy at school anymore. And, well, you remember, there, like, well, not the most pleasant ones, there, they tear the hell out of you. But just now I came, pulled out wisdom teeth, just, well, they fell apart. Wisdom teeth are such crap, I don’t know about you, but in general, well, for some people they don’t grow, and if they do, then for many they quickly rot. That is, they rot very quickly, and this, in fact, is already such an Atovism, they are in the experience...
We don’t eat such hard food, they practically never participate in the experience of food. And they, maybe, do not have a load, there, some kind of self-cleaning, but it can’t be because of this that they rot. But I had mine pulled, I was shocked at how cool they are pulling teeth now. I don't know, in Moscow, at least in your prison, it's probably not very good, but in Moscow, in the CM clinic, they pulled out my teeth really, really hard.
And they even pulled out two at a time, that is, from one side, from the top, from the bottom. And, naturally, they split somehow, they have fucking long roots there. And they just take it, drill it into several parts, crush it, and they pulled out one third, the second third, well, I was shocked, I thought it was just unrealistic, but now there are such technologies, you don't feel anything, the anesthesia is normal, before there was some kind of lidocaine
or something in our time, and then now there is Ultracaine minimum and some more modern things, so now I don't think you should be afraid of pulling teeth, unless it's a Thai prison.

The term of imprisonment. Amnesty.
Pavlovich:
Well, when did the 50 years end?

Carder:
We arrived in 2015, and in September 2021 we were already at the Minsk airport.

Pavlovich:
6 years, so in a Thai prison a year counts as 10, right? Yes. If they gave you 50, in short, divide by 10, you get a five. No,

Carder:
It's not necessary. That calculator is always broken there, it works differently for everyone. I already mentioned, with the Romanian who was in the pretrial detention center, I was seven out of fifteen. Well, half. Yes. And we were five and ten out of fifty, there, for a couple of days. Well, six. Five. Well, almost, yes.
That is, it's always a special case, it depends on how you fight for your case, fight, don't fight, how many amnesties you miss, how many you receive after you've been convicted.

Pavlovich:
Well, what do you mean by "everything"? They gave you fifty out of the courtroom.

Carder:
Since it's a credit card, there's also a gradation of classes, that's what they call it. If you're coming in for the first time, you come in with a normal class. Then you need to upgrade it to good, very good, and excellent. If you have an excellent class, you don't screw it up, you don't lower it. An amnesty comes, they cut half of your time.

Pavlovich:
You mean you don't have any violations in the zone yet, right?

Carder:
Yes, an amnesty is always, as a rule, timed to coincide with some event in the royal family, or sometimes they are tied to Buddhist calendars, but much less often, that's why all the prisoners know the birthdays of the king, queen, all the princesses and princes, they wait for these dates every year, the same thing, and when an amnesty comes, it is always such a joyful event, but when it is, for example, expected and it does not come,
then this, accordingly, shakes you up.

Pavlovich:
Well, and their frequency? Because in Belka, I remember, once... It happens every year, yes, and sometimes there is a two and a half year break. Well, that is, in general, you can say, if you spread it out over a long period, that once every two years is a stable occurrence.

Carder:
Yes, you could say that in general, on average, once every two years, maybe it is. Yes, maybe. So we just arrived, the king died there, there was no one for a year, then mourning, there was no one for a year, then the coronation, that is, there was no one, like, an official person, to whom I am attached, and this pause dragged on at the very beginning, and it also killed you, you wait, wait, wait, no, no, no, you count there approximately, approximately.
Then one amnesty came, they cut 25, then the next one from 25 we are 12 and a half, when we already received the third, it turns out, up to six years and three months. And this happened when we had already served five years at that time. And this, by the way, probably for me, at least, this was the most difficult moment in the Thai prison.
This is exactly what you do not know the date of your release. For 5 years I was in a state of confusion about when this date would come. And this amnesty constantly puts pressure on itself to a greater or lesser degree every day.

Pavlovich:
Well, 2065 100%, or feet first, or will the iron doors open in 2065?

Carder:
When, after 5 years, we received the third amnesty, I already understood that no one would detain me for longer than that term. That was probably the first time it became significantly easier.

Pavlovich:
Well, it's a pretty normal amnesty in Thailand, right? That is, they took half the term, cut one, then another half of the remaining one, the second - hop-hop, the third, that's it, and, in principle, from fifty you sit in five, if not for drugs, right?

Carder:
Well, it's easy to say that, but in reality, well, it's not so. That is, I'm saying that these are always individual cases, and we were really mega lucky that it turned out to be 5-10. Because if you take other examples, there was a Turk, he also got 50, also for cards, he sat there for 9-something. There was a Romanian who served 11.
I'm saying that this calculator always works on an individual basis, depending on the moment you got there, the moment you receive these amnesties, it all fits together into a puzzle that determines your final, ultimate term. And we were really lucky with 50 to 5.10. But overall, it's a terrible system.

The reason for choosing Asia for crime.
Pavlovich:
It seems to me that you've regretted 10 times that you were involved in crime in Asia.

Carder:
Yes, probably more than 10.

Pavlovich:
Because in Europe, I don't know, in Poland, maybe in Belgium, they would have given you a year and a half or two years, you would have sat in a comfortable prison with courses in any subjects you needed, with a computer class, and so on. Well, basically. Playing tennis. Well, yes. That's it. And I thought, why didn't I go to the nearest European ATMs, I should have gone there.
And here's a question, by the way, why did your bosses who were making all these cards, why did they send people to Asia, knowing that there was hell there, if anything, in prisons and so on, why didn't they spread these cards around Europe or the former Soviet Union?

Carder:
Good question. You know, it was somehow later determined, voiced, explained to me. That ATMs worked well in Thailand. That is, nowhere else, as in Thailand, was it possible to get such a quantity of cash as it was possible to do in Thailand. How true this is, I don't know.

Pavlovich:
It could very well be, yes. Because, for example, I don't know how it was in ATMs, well, I just don't remember in ATMs, but in stores, for example, many American cards did not work in the Union, in Russia, in Belarus, in general, banks throughout the country, they did not work. Maybe if you go to your bank in advance and tell them, maybe they will unlock it, it won’t work, but by default, probably 80-90 percent of American banks didn’t work, well, for certain years already in the Russian Federation.
Well, here, accordingly, everything works, because the whole world is here. It is quite possible, yes, that it was like you were told. What else did you think about? Well, besides the fact that you regretted getting involved with that.

Thoughts in prison.
Pavlovich:
What else did you think about in prison during these 5 years? Almost a long 6.

Carder:
I probably thought about loved ones most of all. And the price that my parents paid, my father, my mother and my brother, in general the most precious person to me, the closest, my very own.

Pavlovich:
Well, the brother who was in prison with you, right?

Carder:
Yes, yes, he is my only youngest. I don’t know, I’m unlikely to forgive myself there until the end of my days. We talked about this topic more than once there, but the last time it happened, he told me... That is, we have very close brotherly relations, very, very connected. And we practically never quarreled in our lives. But the last time I told him there, damn, Seryoga, well, I got myself into this, I can’t stand it...
He already told me then that if you bring this up again, then in a half-raised voice, he was already trying to put an end to it with me very seriously. He said, I just don’t want to hear this anymore. That is, I made this decision myself, I heard you, of course, I listened to you then, but I brought up the final decision.
And he said, please don’t start a conversation with me about this anymore, because it could end badly. In a word, mentally. I try not to bring it up anymore, but, I repeat, I consider myself guilty of what happened. And, well, what the people closest to me went through because of me. This was probably the hardest mission during my entire stay.
Probably the most frequently visited.

Relations with my brother. Directions for development after serving my sentence.
Pavlovich:
And how are things with you now? What are you doing?

Carder:
Everything is alive and well. Seryoga is now selling some metal pipes of unreal cosmic dimensions in Moscow. I'm still hanging around. Well, we're taking a closer look, you know, by the way, I wanted to ask you, how much time passed after your release, when you realized in which direction to move?
Because in my case, you know, it's been three years, but I have this feeling that I still haven't caught the rhythm. Sometimes I have this feeling, will I be able to catch it at all, that speed, maybe it's some kind of delusion, how much time passed for you, when you realized that you need to develop in this direction, to choose something for yourself?

Pavlovich:
My conditions in prison were different, that is, I was connected almost all the time with a mobile phone, with the Internet, but the last 3 years I was in a zone where you could be shot for it. I was already without a mobile phone and without the Internet, respectively. But I had a bunch of magazines of various kinds, and there was something about a mobile application, popular mechanics, there are all sorts of Playboy, FHM, about cars, about clothes.
Well, in short, different magazines, popular mechanics, sports, fitness, hunting and fishing, in short, cars, yes. I can’t say that I fell behind, you know. When I was released, I, in principle, started promoting the topics on the Internet in business, which I came up with, in principle, in the zone.

Pavlovich:
And, well, I promoted them somehow, I promoted them with varying degrees of success. More often, well, not very quickly and easily, as it seemed to me, there in the zone. I also got released, I had my last 30 thousand dollars left, well, like, I left for Moscow. Well, it was the right decision, of course, to leave the squirrel right away. The rightest one, probably, in my life. It was hard. And everything was not going as rosy as I had imagined in my dreams.
30 thousand dollars, which I stretched out over a year, and I easily earned 100 a month. And I spent less, of course. And everything that I do now, well, later, or rather now, it came into my life more by chance. It’s not that I did it on purpose. Yes, those projects that I started after the Zone, they exist, they are going, not so fast somewhere.
Now I push some of them so that they run faster, yes. But YouTube, media and many other things that are connected with this or appeared after this, it came into my life by chance. It was by chance that I got into crime in my time, and it was by chance that I got on YouTube, and it was just for me. My friend calls from Sweden, in the zone, we met from here, from Novopolotsk, from Belarus. He says, did you see some channel about your competitor, made an episode, and I didn’t watch YouTube at all.
I watched it, it was cool, called this channel, asked how much money, they told me 45 thousand dollars. I thought, no, for 45 thousand dollars I will make my own channel. Well, that’s it, and I got there. In my life, I had two turning points, such random milestones. The first was that I accidentally got into crime, although I was not drawn to it at all. I was doing legal things there, I studied well. That’s it. And then I accidentally got on YouTube.
And I don’t even know what the third accident will be. One was extremely bad, the second was good. That’s it. Well, I don’t know. I hope that the next one will be good too. Will there be more. It seems to me that you are then purposefully waiting for something there, trying.
Well, here I am, if you are asking specifically for my advice, what I could say is that you just determine now what brings you pleasure, but here you need to say it in a more practical sense, it is clear that you are not a billionaire, but I am, and you need to work somehow, earn money and somehow exist, preferably well. Therefore, it seems to me, you need to understand that you have always been able to analyze since your youth to make money. I have always sold something, I was an intermediary. And not my own goods, but other people's. Legal, illegal goods.
Well, in short, I have always sold something. First, it was someone else's. I was not the owner of the goods. Second, I always earned on it many times more than the owners of the goods. Third, it was a high-margin product. Fourth, it was, no matter what kind of product, it was a fairly scarce product. Because of this, it was easy to sell. Well, having crossed all these things, yes, with a little creative marketing, it turns out that you somehow find a calling in your place.
And that's how I moved, and that's how I'm moving now, basically. So just analyze from your youth what you were good at to make money, and if you also like it, if you enjoy it and so on, then please, then you'll have such a cocktail, yes, it will come together. This advice is not only for you, it's probably universal for everyone.
To understand as quickly as possible what you're good for. Well, your talents, aspirations.

The influence of the book "How I Stole a Million."
Carder:
And how did the release of your book affect you? Can you notice any kind of radical change in yourself or in your surroundings?

Pavlovich:
It helped me in the zone, because I was transferred from one camp to another, and it was through the isolation ward, through the drill, that the deputy commander pulled me. He was the first person in that zone, of course, not the owner, but the deputy commander, as in many zones. And he pulled me to write an explanatory note for the book. It came to him from the Department of Corrections. He wrote a book here and there.
I say, well, he wrote it, yes, but it was in another zone, there, from a phone. He wrote it, he did time for the phone, so, basically, now I'm doing time for it with you too. And he, oh, so you're not with us, like, well, that's it, he relaxed, in short. Well, I wouldn't say that we were friends there, yes, but he, in any case, didn't harm me. That is, sometimes, probably, when he could, he helped or something, well, maybe the cops turned a blind eye, but he didn't harm me first of all. And it was very good in that zone, because, well, everyone who he or any other policeman didn't like, they, well, left openly, there, they were given 40 under 411 and so on.
So she played the first positive role then. She helped me indirectly, yes, in the zone, at least with this acquaintance. And she played the second role when I already started my media on YouTube.
I already had initial fame of five to ten thousand people at that time, about 20-30, my book was already indirectly read in electronic form, in paper form, and I had minimal fame on forums and everywhere, so the book, of course, helped me quite a lot. Financially? No, I wouldn't say. Well, it was bought a long time ago, there, dozens of times, yes, and now it brings in something, there, 500 thousand dollars a month in any case, but this is not something you can make money on with a Russian-language book.
But in general, considering now that you can stir up all this yourself, you don't need to wait for the great consent of the editors, depend on someone and so on. It turned out to be a good thing, and easy.

Carder:
I also recently came out, I just wrote about Bangkok, I released my diary, so if you don't mind, we can just exchange. I'll send you to prison.

Pavlovich:
Yes, it will be interesting.

Carder:
If you mention it to anyone in your program, I would also be grateful.

The most valuable thing you took away from prison.
Pavlovich:
Okay, we'll show you, we'll tell you. The last thing. What is the most valuable thing that you, well, besides the fact that you blame yourself there and worry about your loved ones who went through all this because of you, right? What is the most valuable thing that you were able to mentally take away from prison?

Carder:
Well, as trite as it may sound, there is freedom. You just don't understand the meaning of this word without losing it. And I don't know, it's unlikely that you'll be able to understand it without experiencing freedom. It's an elementary opportunity to get up when you want.
Take a cup that you like in your hands, pour in what you like in the amount, at the time when you want to do this banal and elementary action, but it is simply priceless, priceless, and this is it, yes, free will, the will of your choice, if it exists, of course, we will not dive into philosophy there, but this is a very expensive, if not priceless thing.

Results.
Pavlovich:
And so, friends, take care, this was in our time, take care of the part "from youth", yes, a Soviet proverb, here you can also add "take care of freedom", "from youth" and weigh approximately there, well, at least study the criminal code there in your country, and those countries you travel to, yes, to understand that it is better not to stir up this here. Hugs, write whether you liked the interview or not. Some questions, maybe for me, maybe for the guest of the issue. Hugs. Bye.