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Who is a "Russian hacker", what does he follow, what is in his heart, does he have a soul at all, and are hackers really so powerful that they can influence politics
Pavel Sitnikov is a Russian hacker who declassified himself a few years ago when he feared for his life. For the same reason, he put a lot of tattoos on his body — so that he could be identified. Sometimes his name appears in the media when it comes to leaked data — clients of banks, large stores. These plums are attributed to him. A lot of things are attributed to him — not only drains, but also various hacks, stuffing, influence on foreign policy. We met him in Velikiye Luki, where he lives, to find out who the "Russian hacker" is, what motivates him, what is in his heart, whether he has a soul at all, and whether hackers are really so powerful that they can influence politics. But the main topic was digital control of the common man, which even hackers cannot ignore.
Pavel Sitnikov, a self-declassified hacker, enters a dim hotel bar in Velikiye Luki, which he himself chose for the meeting. He looks around warily: all the tables are empty. He takes off his black cap and sits down at my desk. He looks at me warily.
"How clean the air is in Velikiye Luki," I say.
— You wanted to talk about digital control. He moves closer to the table and begins lamely, " Well, you're already being monitored. But don't worry, there are still only thugs working in Lubyanka. They wanted to exchange me to America for a carder of some kind (carding. — card fraud. - "Expert").
— Why did they want to give you up?"
— They're not interested in me." I'm not interested in this card theft at all. No, they wouldn't have put me there, but they would have made me work for the CIA. I'd be sitting there all in high esteem. Any state will welcome me with open arms. And ours are noble thugs, they don't pay money, so we have everything on patriotism. We (hackers. - "Expert"), when we want to help them, we help them, when we don't want to, we don't help them. But none of the professionals will ever put the technologies and algorithms of total control in their hands.
- why?
"Nah, that's unworthy. Well, damn, if they knew how to use them adequately-solve crimes or preventatively predict them, but they have everything for the sake of money. Moscow — this is in general… In the regions, the guys in the offices are really engaged in security, and Moscow and St. Petersburg only protect the money.
"From whom?"
- From smarter people. I don't make money. I do espionage. Well, or here are the last two hypes I made — I merged all the banks of Russia (customer databases. - "Expert"). Now VTB has added more clients there.
— Where did you get them?"
— And the scammers shared it with me.
— Why did they leak it?"
"Well... it's fun. These people (clients from merged databases. - "Expert") is constantly hammered, hammered by scammers. And the banks are aware of this, but they do not advertise it, in short. Which makes me very stressed. Guys, at least send your customers text messages: "You, our customers, sorry, there was a leak. Be vigilant." No, they don't. And these people are differently shod with phone calls. There is enough data for them — card number, phone number, last name, first name, patronymic. And people are suckers. If they go to one bank, no matter what happens, they don't go to another. Therefore, banks are clogged with plums.
— But why do you need these plums?"
- First, when I put these databases in the public, they stop selling them and making money on them — this is a whole business. They are sold by those who got this database, and scammers buy them.
— Do hackers break into bank databases to make money by selling information?
— They're just as annoyed with the security situation at the banks as I am. There are real guys in banks who solve various such issues. No one knows them, they don't even have phone numbers. But when such an incident occurs, I immediately contact them and warn them: "Guys, so and so, I'm throwing it out in the public today. Let's settle it sometime. I'll give you a week."
— What exactly pisses you off — the imperfection of the banking system?
- no. First of all, we're just having fun.
"How's that fun?"
— Well, an ordinary person from the village, a fool like me, can walk half the country! "that's all. It's a lot of fun. So everyone flatters themselves that hackers will take them and hack them. Do you have a million dollars? Not present? Everyone, goodbye. In order for a hacker to hack you, they must first pay.
Non-secret secret
— Were you born in the village?
— I'm in St. Petersburg. That's where my parents went to college. But I live in Velikiye Luki. They are a village for Moscow. Have you seen how many Jeeps we have driving around the city?
- yes. How do people get money for jeeps here?
— And here is a strategic object of the Russian Federation. First — a meat processing plant. We also have a military theme here. And now another data center will be built here, a data processing center — which is such a large cluster as Google. They want to transfer us all to one card, so that all our data is there. This is great! It will be easier for us to trade your data. Well, what do you want? If you don't like it, go rally. Only this topic-rallies-figitings-does not work in any way. No one will attend such a rally. People have already been put on a digital needle. My grandmother now, to get somewhere, you need to use the" figure " to write down. And it doesn't cut into computers at all. I'm the one who needs to come to her and help her with it. And we have such grandmothers all over the country-it's normal.
— But not everyone has hacker grandchildren.
"They put you all on a needle. Now you will have an accounting system. Money, I think, you will also soon be taken out, "nalik" is not enough left. With the cashout, problems have gone. All money is in "figures". And then you can be absolutely controlled. The government thought that you were some kind of incorrect person, and-once-you have zero on the account. "Crash, sorry! Here is the court-contact us." You will starve to death while the court considers your case for a year. This is great! Great, you'll be easier to pass around. But no one cares. Yes, you rejoice! You are offered handbags on Instagram. Previously, a person came up to you on the street, you shunned him, but on Instagram they just counted you and made it convenient for you — not a bunch of everything and your eyes don't run away, but as if a purse is right for you. You just managed to say something about your purse next to your phone, and it's already in the feed. Why don't you like it? You are so honored — someone is personally interested in you.
"Me and the whole world. All users are similarly offered something.
"Well, use it or give it up. No, you can't refuse.
— But I also want not to give up social networks, and that no one invades your private space.
"Geez, that's impossible already. This is absolutely impossible. Nothing at all. Well, what do you have to hide?
— Nothing. But privacy isn't just a secret, it's just a life that you want to keep intact so that you don't go crazy and stay human. That is, the secret of my private life, the space in which I can go and stay there alone in comfort, and makes me a person.
- People initially had to think about this and not connect to social networks, do not have devices, live like old Believers — there is no data on them and no one sells them anything. This is what they sell, on the contrary. The invasion of your privacy has already occurred. Well, then they will pass some resolution, but it will not work, because nothing works in Russia. We only steal everything like the Chinese. Industrial espionage in Russia has always been just for hello. I do it myself.
— And you get paid for it?"
- yes. Big money.
— And you live in Velikiye Luki.
— Well, what? With this money, I'm king and god here. And I can't leave.
— Do you steal data from the Chinese?
— no! What for? We are the ones who steal their developments from America and England.
— Do they know about it?"
- of course. I do everything openly. Here I stole cyber weapons from America, but they are banned in Russia, no one is developing them here. It helps you get into your devices. It costs five million rubles, and I stole it and sell it for ten thousand dollars here in Russia.
— What's so cheap?"
— If fifty people buy it for ten thousand dollars, that's enough for me."
— Who's buying it?"
— Some criminal groups.
— Are they that good with technology?"
— And there everything is like for stupid efesbeshnikov: tyts-klatsni here to crack, tyts-now here. And in America, it is sold in official stores. They buy it there to check their companies for security. We steal their programs from them through security bugs. Fun, generally wonderful. We also want to destabilize America. You know, destroy it like they want us to. But we don't have anything to crack. We have everything on paper. Ah-ha-ha! We have everything in our safes. There is nothing to break in Russia. Well, yes, we have banned these weapons, but in America it is forbidden to look askance at people and call Negroes Negroes. Ah-ha-ha!
"Well, this place will have to be cut out. Rather, tell us exactly how you feel when you're having fun.
- Damn it… Well, some joy. I sit like this and invaded the NSA (ANB, National Security Agency. - "Expert") of America. Damn, that's cool. Yes, in short, I'm having fun. Because after Snowden, everything changed. In short, before that, the special services simply waged a quiet war, but after Snowden revealed everything, everything was covered in politics. Now the military can't do this, now they need third parties to do it. Like us.
— Is it normal that you tell me about your orders?
— I don't give a damn. It's fun. I help our poor people. If not us (hackers. - "Expert"), then who will help them? And they are too shy to scold me. As soon as they arrive, they say :" Please, Pavel, change something in your communication style. Don't advertise this." I don't care about laws and shoulder straps.
— But why do you cooperate with them?
- Damn, but I just believed the movies, where the special services are really like this-they catch spies. But in reality, it's not like that.
— Did you have a higher goal?
— Well, yes, to get to the very top and work there with the guys in the Foreign Intelligence Service.
— Do you have a dream now?
— Not anymore. I've hung out with the bandits, too. But neither there nor there is a higher goal at all. All for the money.
— But you also sell what you steal."
— But I don't need anything, I have everything. I can come to any city in Russia and not worry at all. I've helped a lot of people in my life for free.
— Why did you help?
— And this is called investing in yourself. These people seem to implicitly owe me. I helped them in such moments that this help is stored in the memory. I helped because I could help. I have fun only when someone really needs something, and not for the loot. Well, there ... to protect the homeland. With us (hackers. - "Expert") you will not lose your homeland. We don't have days off — we work while you sleep.
— But you don't give our data to external intelligence agencies?
— I give you some of them, but not critical ones. We have to exchange something. Only this is a farce.
Planted Rosselkhoznadzor
— How do you live now without a dream?
— And I got a second wife, and I'm fine.
— What about the first one?"
"I lived with her for fourteen years and it didn't work out. We had no common interests, and she didn't understand me. I have security, I have to save my homeland, I always have to go somewhere, my friends always come to me. And she has her own life. Something like that.
— Do the Americans react in any way to the fact that you steal from them?
— I don't give a damn about their reactions. In Russia, everything is simple: the subscriber is unavailable. It is America that can extradite its own people, but Russia has never extradited its own criminals. And I am a criminal for America and the entire European Union. I want to create a normal structure for us, a world for hackers, in which we will be comfortable, and the state will come to us to ask something carefully and with a cookie: "Here you are, guys. Here it is necessary to destroy another state... — - " Not a question at all! Let's do it!"
— What interesting things did you learn about people when they were hacked?
- It is difficult for me to explain with words, it is easier to complete a specific task. A human is a finite algorithm. It is finite, it is easily calculated. I know that. Man, I'm still alive, no matter what I do.
— Do you think it's up to you to stay alive?"
"From me." Some of them have their heads blown off by the way I run into them, but I'm still alive.
— So you know everything about yourself — as the ultimate algorithm-so much that you get bored and therefore often have fun hacking someone?
— Something like that. I know everything about myself. But I still want to live. Live and have fun. Damn, this is adrenaline! Those who are in power, they feel power in the same way.
— And how often do you need to get this fun?
"All the time now. Because when I'm bored, I start breaking things. The last time I got bored, I sent the Rosselkhoznadzor to the North-West to sit me down. Eighty gigabytes of information. I even told the office that the Rosselkhoznadzor broke it, but they don't care.
— What did you expect?"
— That they will be interested in the presence of such a hole in the system. But they didn't want to close it. And there are personal data of all employees, information about where they went on vacation. Yes, to recruit them — three seconds. But I don't want to hide from the laws at all. I want to create a private intelligence company that will engage in espionage directly, in the open. I'm already doing it, but I don't have any company.
— And if you create a company in Russia — it will look as if the state supports you.
— I'll register it in the Cayman Islands."
— And if a hacker participates in elections, what does it look like?
- Information collection, information stuffing. Many people don't even know they're participating. There are also criminal forums where guys sit. A person goes there, starts suggesting topics, but everything is veiled. And people start doing something. We have Russia (Russian hackers. - "Expert") is a single entity. In other countries, hackers operate in separate groups. Therefore, we all immediately get something neatly thrown in on patriotism. We don't give a damn what to do with patriotism. We just need to be interested in beautiful things. It's funny when tsereushniki say: "Putin personally asked you..." Yes, Putin doesn't care, he called me and was like: "Pavel, will you hack America?" He correctly said once: "A hacker is a person who got up in the morning, drank vodka and thought:" Ah should I break Australia?"And it is. I get up in the morning, drink vodka and think: "Why don't I seat America?" I went and hacked something — and I'm having fun. And in order for me to crack what the state needs, they must cover me with some news so that I can approach it myself.
— So you are being manipulated?
- yes. As you are the owners of big data. Ah-ha-ha! This is excellent. Just fine!
Old Indians and sheriffs
- What did you want to be as a child?
— Well, who can you want to be in the USSR? A standard cosmonaut.
— Can you recall a case from your childhood when you experienced pure, childlike, unclouded joy?
- yes. I remember: on the first of September I came to the second class, it was a rainy day. They were all beautiful, in uniform, with white collars and bows. And there was a big puddle nearby. I'm going to run into this puddle like-woo-a-a-a! And they're all so dirty. All the collars are lined. I laughed heartily that day. Parents were called to school every day.
— So you're a bully?"
— Well, yes.
— Where did you study after school?
— I was kicked out of the humanities academy. I actually wanted to go to vocational school, but my mother forced me to finish my studies until the eleventh grade. But I studied in a specialized class, where we were trained for service in the police. We went through auto repair, hand-to-hand combat, forensics, autopsies. I just wanted to be a policeman. I thought they were real. And I'd make a good investigator. I have, when something is real, immediately adrenaline rushing. If I'm asked for a present without money, I'll do it. Here you can also ask hackers. You're a woman. You can fit in with hackers, and there with the help of appearance-once-once — and everything will be hacked for you.
— Why complicate everything so much-a woman, appearance ... it's enough to be a not very smart employee of the special services to manipulate you.
— But he has to be real and honest, so I can help him." I always start breeding them for corruption. If he immediately agrees to commit a crime, I lose interest in him. But some of them are real, correct guys. However, not in Moscow. Well, get on the Moscow — Vladivostok train and talk to people there. And you will see how people change: the further away from Moscow, the more real they become.
— And where do you get classified information, other than hacking?
- Usually people unknown to me throw it. The guys from Berkut often write to me. Damn, I want, as before, to lie in Odessa in the bay and not worry. And now I can't go there because of the war. In the eighteenth year, I seated the Ukrainian judicial power. I had access to all the emails of all the prosecutors in Ukraine. We wanted to send such a letter through these emails — from Putin, Trump and Poroshenko, in which they would apologize to people.
"For burning Odessa?"
- Completely for the entire war. We would have done it beautifully. But I reported to these stupid thugs, and the next day the SBU (Security Service of Ukraine. - "Expert") reported on a data leak. Our people are in contact with them, instead of ending the war. They don't need to end the war. And it bothers me. I was just so offended at the time…
"Just offended?"
— Of course! I could end the war. And I didn't finish it.
— Why did you consult?
"These are the rules of the game. But after that incident, I stopped following them. I just wanted everyone to get high. And now we are doing certain actions that will make everyone feel good. Everything will be clear and fair for everyone.
— Have you read the Strugatskys ' Roadside Picnic? There, one hero made his way to the Zone, to the golden ball that fulfills wishes, to make a wish: "Happiness for everyone, for free! And let no one leave offended! " The zone tore him apart.
— No, I haven't. I used to read a lot, then stopped, then started again. I've just stolen Pelevin's latest book, and I'll be reading it.
— Where was it stolen?"
— I got it out of the Eksmo publishing house itself.
- What did you do after school?
- Presser of cheese: poshekhonsky, Dutch, Russian... tasteless. Budget-friendly, like a liver sausage. And I like soft, with holes. Then in the Russian Railways in the computing center, then in the Pskov city administration for computers was responsible. And then my working life ended, there was only room left for the medal. And no one gave me a medal.
— How did you master computers?
— On a whim. I've never read any books about them. Well, what is hacking? You just understand the algorithm of the system and already know where you can get through. It's just an understanding, you don't need to be very good at it.
— And what else serious did you hack?
— I have seated the Chamber of Industry of the Russian Federation, and even got into the CEC computer. No, WADA is not me, these are schoolchildren from the Krasnodar Territory. And there was no need to hack — just sent an email with a virus, and that's it. Everyone knows who did what. Both ours and the CIA. They just have politics.
— Do you at least read the information that comes to you?
- no. I don't read any of the databases I distribute. I don't have time.
"What if there's something wrong?"
— And the information can't be good or bad. If it's a lie, it's a problem for the Indians. The people who start analyzing this information are sheriffs. And those who are immediately accepted on faith are Indians.
— Is it the Indians ' fault that they are Indians?"
"And it's never the Indians' fault. They've just always been Indians. They just need to strain a little bit and start analyzing, but they are too lazy. So why would I waste my time being compassionate to them and that's it?
— Don't you have any compassion at all?"
— Lately I've been forcing myself to test it — I go to watch melodramas.
"It works?"
"Sometimes, yes. And on the streets it is necessary to look for this, these compassions. And I can not leave the house for months, I sit and work at the computer. Well, let me tell you that I am a God. Believe in me, you don't care what you believe.
- And if you pump it to your grandmother or mother?
— And you can't change these people at all. They have their own. They believe the TV. That's why I have so much fun making fun of them. They're such old Indians.
— And you don't feel sorry for them, either?"
"What's the point?" This is just wasting time on worries, then your performance drops. This doesn't suit me. People are all the same. They only have skin, bones, and meat. The final algorithm.
"And the soul?"
"This is for the church."
— So you don't have a soul?"
— Well, no.
— Why do you suffer when you watch melodramas?
- Physiology. My tear glands start dripping under my T-shirt. You just have to learn to forget. You need to learn to repeat many evil actions in one unit of time, and the body will get so tired of it and get so used to it that it will begin to perceive this doing as a normal state.
— And then you will become a machine for producing countless evils.
— But it's important to me that I don't feel bad afterwards.
"It will be. How much money do you earn per month?
- Let's see... (Opens reports in your phone.). August — five hundred and sixty-seven thousand, July-eight hundred and six, one million three hundred. But I also distribute money to the entire team. Many people were very upset when I was disanonymized. But it made me at least a little safer. Anonymous users are very easy to remove.
Universal friendly self-knowledge
— Why do you think people are not worried about the transition to the digital world?
"They don't notice. Here's a look at what the coronavirus gave. People have been taught that all purchases can be made online. Everyone was told: "And let's do everything according to the "figure", without leaving the house. No need to go out, stay at home, like in America, eat a hamburger and watch TV. And be happy. And we will guess your wishes." And when face recognition cameras first appeared in Moscow, five Zhirinovskys, three Putins and one Zyuganov immediately entered the metro. Of course, this is a fake. No, not mine personally, I know the guys who developed this technology. They are ordinary engineers.
— Suppose someone wants to get back at me for something. So I didn't go to the subway, but the engineers take a woman who looks like me and put my face on her…
— Why take a woman, if now there are ready-made holograms? They are already practicing. They replace the announcers. Soon you'll all be watching holograms. Well, what? This is excellent. It will be more beautiful to read the news, the announcers will not have any physiological problems, they will be so constantly cheerful…
— But I want to see their physiological problems!" And I want to see a live person on the screen.
— And you will believe that he is alive."
"When he doesn't have a soul, I don't believe it."
— Then it will be a technological flaw. Do you need a hologram with your soul? No problem at all. As for the recognition cameras, if they let your hologram into the subway, you will never prove that it is not you.
— But if I'm charged with theft or murder and I wasn't there?"
— Your problems. So you're out of luck. So, you did something that greatly stressed out those who launched your hologram. It was necessary to try to strain people so much.
— But that's not fair…
— This is an information war.
— What about me…
"Nothing. All this is developing at such a pace... you will soon have no live presenters, no money, you will only have private companies-MTS and Google, which know everything about you and therefore control the world. Even now, when some efesoshnik comes to MTS and asks: "And let me listen to the phone," they can send it. The world is run by telecommunications companies, big data custodians, and large online retailers. They know your interests, they know what time and what you want. They know how you press keys, how you stroke your phone, how you touch it, when you're nervous and when you're doing fine. There are also such technologies, but they are unprofitable to use. You can also remove other markers from people. But it doesn't appeal to me.
— What are you working on now?
— Now we will go through the Russian banks in order to shake up the financial sector. We will publish the databases. In general, we want to create a zone like in Skolkovo, but in the Pskov region — such a demilitarized tax zone for IT companies. I want IT people to come to me, to be around me and to make everything cool.
— And you don't like being ignored, do you?"
- yes. I constantly warm him up to me. When people don't pay attention for a long time, it bothers me. Then I start to bully more seriously.
— How's that?"
- I'm leaking something about myself in the telegram channel. The office keeps telling me: "You're being manipulated." Then the United States, then Ukraine. But if it happens so imperceptibly for me, then I admire them — Stanislavsky! If I noticed how I was being manipulated, I would immediately break off this manipulation. But I accept that I am being manipulated, just as private companies are manipulating you. It's just that if you wanted to fight yourself, you could at least organize a flash mob. For example, all middle-level employees would simply freeze for a day and not go to work. And something would have to be done about it. But no one needs this fight.
— What's new in the near future you will merge?
— We have a plan. We want the whole globe to go nuts. We'll take the air, put stories on it, and sell it all to you.
— And what will it be?"
— I don't know yet. We hackers, sick people, alcoholics. And I have to create a separate world for us on the territory of Russia.
— And will you go there physically or with your head?
"More like my head." You need to buy an apartment for everyone, so that no one steams, and continue to work. I'll leave to study music.
— Can you sing?"
— Why be able to? This is technology.
— So you will use technology to write dead music?
- Great dead music. I don't care how you feel when you listen to it. Well, turn yourself into robots, and we will not turn. If you want to, don't transform. But we will always give you something. For a lot of money, it would be possible to change your consciousness. If you are tired of looking at boots and handbags on the Internet, you could be flooded with this advertisement so that you would get so fucked up by these boots that you would throw out your phones and go back to push-button ones. "Oversaturate your head" — that's what they call it. Are you tired of being followed? And for a lot of money, we would have leaked the data of private companies ourselves, so that this tracking would become unnecessary. If the data is publicly available, what's the point of selling it? Or you can change your mind so that people will simply stop noticing that they are being followed. After all, what is surveillance? When a person realizes that he is constantly being watched, he begins to behave incorrectly, he begins to behave like a criminal. Well, change his mind, and let him not worry that he is being watched. Here I am constantly watched, and I do not worry. You're still soaring, aren't you? There is a good drug — phenibut. In America, too, everyone is on drugs, so as not to suffer from the fact that they are being monitored. Drink Chinese tea, too, relaxes. Practice yoga. Go out into nature more often.
— I don't think that I will stop straining after all this.
— Go again. In general, work more with nature. Leave Moscow for our town, there are no cameras here. We have clean air here, and everything is great.
— And what, in your opinion, does the average person suffer more from-state control or control of private companies?
— Only from private companies. The state only collects your data, but it can't analyze it — there are suckers there. Well, you gave everything to private companies yourself. I bought the last phone, and all the apps were cut out of it after Google had a fight with Huawei. I don't have a playmarket. But you have one, and it's used to track you.
- Cattle.
— And he's hearing what you just said about them." But I'm not interested in it right now. I used to walk, look around, and then I broke down, and I realized that everything is different.
- Have you asked for a second time?
- Yes, I reset the factory setting and became what I was when I was born as a child. I let go of my fear. Here everyone is afraid that they will be called to the carpet. And I realized that this is the coolest thing. They don't kick you in the face, but you can have fun. I was once scolded that I came to the administration in sportswear to work. And I'm like, " Hey, I'm going to go under the table, my pants will tear on my ass." The mayor understood this and respected me.
— What else did you drop?"
"Only fears. Now I don't waste time being afraid. Anything can be lived through. I passed on intelligence on Iraq, and a month later I learned from the newspaper that there was a missile strike there.
— Where did you get the data?
- I got it. It was a drain. I told you that after Snowden, the intelligence agencies themselves stopped communicating directly. But the information should work. Although, if I see that people will suffer from this information, I will not pass it on. In the case of Iraq, I didn't see it.
— And then when you found out what you thought?"
- Well, sorry, it just happened.
"And the children?" They were dead, too.
- And children are generally expendable for them.
"And for you?"
— And in our country, they never hide behind children.
— It seems to me that you now want to merge your curators.
- Don't merge it. I want them to have such a pistol inserted so that they understand that they also work for their homeland. And then they'll tell me how they put the pistol in them, and I'll have fun. But today the guys missed it, and they should have brought me a chocolate bar before I met you in the morning.
— And you wouldn't date me for a chocolate bar?"
— I would. And there's nothing you can do about it.
— Do you have any enemies?"
— There are a lot of people I'm stopping from working their filthy jobs. And that's why I used to be booked on criminal forums every year.
"Let me read what it says on your T-shirt." "Violent temper. They don't remember the good ones, so don't let them forget the bad ones." Hmm, your motto?
"Probably. I only found out what it said when you read it. Kindness is the most painful thing. When you do good to people, it always hurts a lot afterwards. And when you do them harm, they start to fear you. If you do good, you will be destroyed altogether. For the good always arrives.
— And it's at this moment of arrival that we feel alive.
— No matter how hard it comes, it's still a righteous pain. Yes, a righteous pain. No matter how hard they beat you, you did the right thing. You can even die for the right thing, but you can die with pleasure, knowing that you will be remembered and you will live forever. And evil is temporary, and it simply delays your destruction.
— You could destroy private companies if you wanted to?"
— I could destroy the banks." In principle, we are already sitting in all banks. On a one-time basis, we can simply reset all digital money to zero. And if we want to, we will do it.
— And we that, without money on accounts will remain?!
— Well, you will plant potatoes, you will engage in barter. In Russia, no one will let you starve to death.
— Have you ever been prevented from starving to death?"
— They stopped me from dying three times. So many times I've tried to commit suicide. But they pulled it out three times.
— Why did you do that?"
— I don't know. It was boring, everything was completely tired.
— But you know how to cheer yourself up."
— But then it was not interesting at all. Just the head stops, and you realize: a-a-a, dyshch, not interesting. I don't have any such problems right now. Now I know that some moments just need to sit in silence.
— So you get hurt at such moments?
"Everyone's physiology is the same.
— I think you're telling me about heartache."
"Yes, yes, yes. But I always chose ways to leave not sick. It just stops consciousness, you are no longer interested in anything, and it is constant - like a toothache.
- And digitalization also leads to all this. A person is deprived of the right to solitude, the right to privacy, and it becomes unbearable for him to be alone with himself.
— Don't know where to stay in yourself." This is an expression. But where did I get it from? You can learn how to sit naked on Red Square and stay in yourself so that nothing floats you. I'm in this state right now. I learned. But then I didn't know how. This state comes most effectively through pain and through suffering.
"Which you deny, by the way."
— But if you specifically suffer this, then it will not come to you again. Because you've suffered everything you can. And don't worry about the people. It will just change. Everyone will wear white and live as the higher mind teaches. Everyone will become calm and engage in self-development.
— But will humanity, on the contrary, come to the state in which you wanted to kill yourself?
"What's the difference?" They won't let him die anyway. Like me. I'm fine now.
— Are you lonely?"
— I've always been lonely before. Especially when you realize that you are a genius, but no one needs you, and you are left alone. But now, on the contrary, I want to live and pass on my knowledge. I generally believe that we hackers are the soul of the people. We still have some values preserved.
— You don't believe in the soul, do you…
— I don't believe in material values. You can't bring people back to what they were before. We didn't have cell phones before, but like dolphins without phones, we knew who was where. This has already been erased from people. Friendship has disappeared, everyone is sitting with these technologies in their phones. I don't have any friends in my phone numbers. I didn't have to call earlier, I went out into the yard and knew where the boys were now. There were plenty of places they could be, though. But I went where they were.
"Did you feel like it?"
"Yes, something like that. It was everyone's friendly self-awareness. We can destroy these private companies now, but ordinary people will also suffer. Instead of one operator, another one will appear. It is impossible to force them not to collect our data at all. Therefore, we will soon make them depreciate. But it's easier to change people's minds so that they don't sweat it. Oh, selling your data? So someone needs you! And dofiga someone-all companies, wildeberrizam-shmayrizam, ozonamazonam. Everyone needs us! We employ thousands of engineers! They get millions of dollars to sell our information! We are a pool of money for them! We are the same slush of money! Without us, everything will disappear. Only sometimes you want to commit suicide. Probably ... sometimes.
Pavel Sitnikov is a Russian hacker who declassified himself a few years ago when he feared for his life. For the same reason, he put a lot of tattoos on his body — so that he could be identified. Sometimes his name appears in the media when it comes to leaked data — clients of banks, large stores. These plums are attributed to him. A lot of things are attributed to him — not only drains, but also various hacks, stuffing, influence on foreign policy. We met him in Velikiye Luki, where he lives, to find out who the "Russian hacker" is, what motivates him, what is in his heart, whether he has a soul at all, and whether hackers are really so powerful that they can influence politics. But the main topic was digital control of the common man, which even hackers cannot ignore.
Pavel Sitnikov, a self-declassified hacker, enters a dim hotel bar in Velikiye Luki, which he himself chose for the meeting. He looks around warily: all the tables are empty. He takes off his black cap and sits down at my desk. He looks at me warily.
"How clean the air is in Velikiye Luki," I say.
— You wanted to talk about digital control. He moves closer to the table and begins lamely, " Well, you're already being monitored. But don't worry, there are still only thugs working in Lubyanka. They wanted to exchange me to America for a carder of some kind (carding. — card fraud. - "Expert").
— Why did they want to give you up?"
— They're not interested in me." I'm not interested in this card theft at all. No, they wouldn't have put me there, but they would have made me work for the CIA. I'd be sitting there all in high esteem. Any state will welcome me with open arms. And ours are noble thugs, they don't pay money, so we have everything on patriotism. We (hackers. - "Expert"), when we want to help them, we help them, when we don't want to, we don't help them. But none of the professionals will ever put the technologies and algorithms of total control in their hands.
- why?
"Nah, that's unworthy. Well, damn, if they knew how to use them adequately-solve crimes or preventatively predict them, but they have everything for the sake of money. Moscow — this is in general… In the regions, the guys in the offices are really engaged in security, and Moscow and St. Petersburg only protect the money.
"From whom?"
- From smarter people. I don't make money. I do espionage. Well, or here are the last two hypes I made — I merged all the banks of Russia (customer databases. - "Expert"). Now VTB has added more clients there.
— Where did you get them?"
— And the scammers shared it with me.
— Why did they leak it?"
"Well... it's fun. These people (clients from merged databases. - "Expert") is constantly hammered, hammered by scammers. And the banks are aware of this, but they do not advertise it, in short. Which makes me very stressed. Guys, at least send your customers text messages: "You, our customers, sorry, there was a leak. Be vigilant." No, they don't. And these people are differently shod with phone calls. There is enough data for them — card number, phone number, last name, first name, patronymic. And people are suckers. If they go to one bank, no matter what happens, they don't go to another. Therefore, banks are clogged with plums.
— But why do you need these plums?"
- First, when I put these databases in the public, they stop selling them and making money on them — this is a whole business. They are sold by those who got this database, and scammers buy them.
— Do hackers break into bank databases to make money by selling information?
— They're just as annoyed with the security situation at the banks as I am. There are real guys in banks who solve various such issues. No one knows them, they don't even have phone numbers. But when such an incident occurs, I immediately contact them and warn them: "Guys, so and so, I'm throwing it out in the public today. Let's settle it sometime. I'll give you a week."
— What exactly pisses you off — the imperfection of the banking system?
- no. First of all, we're just having fun.
"How's that fun?"
— Well, an ordinary person from the village, a fool like me, can walk half the country! "that's all. It's a lot of fun. So everyone flatters themselves that hackers will take them and hack them. Do you have a million dollars? Not present? Everyone, goodbye. In order for a hacker to hack you, they must first pay.
Non-secret secret
— Were you born in the village?
— I'm in St. Petersburg. That's where my parents went to college. But I live in Velikiye Luki. They are a village for Moscow. Have you seen how many Jeeps we have driving around the city?
- yes. How do people get money for jeeps here?
— And here is a strategic object of the Russian Federation. First — a meat processing plant. We also have a military theme here. And now another data center will be built here, a data processing center — which is such a large cluster as Google. They want to transfer us all to one card, so that all our data is there. This is great! It will be easier for us to trade your data. Well, what do you want? If you don't like it, go rally. Only this topic-rallies-figitings-does not work in any way. No one will attend such a rally. People have already been put on a digital needle. My grandmother now, to get somewhere, you need to use the" figure " to write down. And it doesn't cut into computers at all. I'm the one who needs to come to her and help her with it. And we have such grandmothers all over the country-it's normal.
— But not everyone has hacker grandchildren.
"They put you all on a needle. Now you will have an accounting system. Money, I think, you will also soon be taken out, "nalik" is not enough left. With the cashout, problems have gone. All money is in "figures". And then you can be absolutely controlled. The government thought that you were some kind of incorrect person, and-once-you have zero on the account. "Crash, sorry! Here is the court-contact us." You will starve to death while the court considers your case for a year. This is great! Great, you'll be easier to pass around. But no one cares. Yes, you rejoice! You are offered handbags on Instagram. Previously, a person came up to you on the street, you shunned him, but on Instagram they just counted you and made it convenient for you — not a bunch of everything and your eyes don't run away, but as if a purse is right for you. You just managed to say something about your purse next to your phone, and it's already in the feed. Why don't you like it? You are so honored — someone is personally interested in you.
"Me and the whole world. All users are similarly offered something.
"Well, use it or give it up. No, you can't refuse.
— But I also want not to give up social networks, and that no one invades your private space.
"Geez, that's impossible already. This is absolutely impossible. Nothing at all. Well, what do you have to hide?
— Nothing. But privacy isn't just a secret, it's just a life that you want to keep intact so that you don't go crazy and stay human. That is, the secret of my private life, the space in which I can go and stay there alone in comfort, and makes me a person.
- People initially had to think about this and not connect to social networks, do not have devices, live like old Believers — there is no data on them and no one sells them anything. This is what they sell, on the contrary. The invasion of your privacy has already occurred. Well, then they will pass some resolution, but it will not work, because nothing works in Russia. We only steal everything like the Chinese. Industrial espionage in Russia has always been just for hello. I do it myself.
— And you get paid for it?"
- yes. Big money.
— And you live in Velikiye Luki.
— Well, what? With this money, I'm king and god here. And I can't leave.
— Do you steal data from the Chinese?
— no! What for? We are the ones who steal their developments from America and England.
— Do they know about it?"
- of course. I do everything openly. Here I stole cyber weapons from America, but they are banned in Russia, no one is developing them here. It helps you get into your devices. It costs five million rubles, and I stole it and sell it for ten thousand dollars here in Russia.
— What's so cheap?"
— If fifty people buy it for ten thousand dollars, that's enough for me."
— Who's buying it?"
— Some criminal groups.
— Are they that good with technology?"
— And there everything is like for stupid efesbeshnikov: tyts-klatsni here to crack, tyts-now here. And in America, it is sold in official stores. They buy it there to check their companies for security. We steal their programs from them through security bugs. Fun, generally wonderful. We also want to destabilize America. You know, destroy it like they want us to. But we don't have anything to crack. We have everything on paper. Ah-ha-ha! We have everything in our safes. There is nothing to break in Russia. Well, yes, we have banned these weapons, but in America it is forbidden to look askance at people and call Negroes Negroes. Ah-ha-ha!
"Well, this place will have to be cut out. Rather, tell us exactly how you feel when you're having fun.
- Damn it… Well, some joy. I sit like this and invaded the NSA (ANB, National Security Agency. - "Expert") of America. Damn, that's cool. Yes, in short, I'm having fun. Because after Snowden, everything changed. In short, before that, the special services simply waged a quiet war, but after Snowden revealed everything, everything was covered in politics. Now the military can't do this, now they need third parties to do it. Like us.
— Is it normal that you tell me about your orders?
— I don't give a damn. It's fun. I help our poor people. If not us (hackers. - "Expert"), then who will help them? And they are too shy to scold me. As soon as they arrive, they say :" Please, Pavel, change something in your communication style. Don't advertise this." I don't care about laws and shoulder straps.
— But why do you cooperate with them?
- Damn, but I just believed the movies, where the special services are really like this-they catch spies. But in reality, it's not like that.
— Did you have a higher goal?
— Well, yes, to get to the very top and work there with the guys in the Foreign Intelligence Service.
— Do you have a dream now?
— Not anymore. I've hung out with the bandits, too. But neither there nor there is a higher goal at all. All for the money.
— But you also sell what you steal."
— But I don't need anything, I have everything. I can come to any city in Russia and not worry at all. I've helped a lot of people in my life for free.
— Why did you help?
— And this is called investing in yourself. These people seem to implicitly owe me. I helped them in such moments that this help is stored in the memory. I helped because I could help. I have fun only when someone really needs something, and not for the loot. Well, there ... to protect the homeland. With us (hackers. - "Expert") you will not lose your homeland. We don't have days off — we work while you sleep.
— But you don't give our data to external intelligence agencies?
— I give you some of them, but not critical ones. We have to exchange something. Only this is a farce.
Planted Rosselkhoznadzor
— How do you live now without a dream?
— And I got a second wife, and I'm fine.
— What about the first one?"
"I lived with her for fourteen years and it didn't work out. We had no common interests, and she didn't understand me. I have security, I have to save my homeland, I always have to go somewhere, my friends always come to me. And she has her own life. Something like that.
— Do the Americans react in any way to the fact that you steal from them?
— I don't give a damn about their reactions. In Russia, everything is simple: the subscriber is unavailable. It is America that can extradite its own people, but Russia has never extradited its own criminals. And I am a criminal for America and the entire European Union. I want to create a normal structure for us, a world for hackers, in which we will be comfortable, and the state will come to us to ask something carefully and with a cookie: "Here you are, guys. Here it is necessary to destroy another state... — - " Not a question at all! Let's do it!"
— What interesting things did you learn about people when they were hacked?
- It is difficult for me to explain with words, it is easier to complete a specific task. A human is a finite algorithm. It is finite, it is easily calculated. I know that. Man, I'm still alive, no matter what I do.
— Do you think it's up to you to stay alive?"
"From me." Some of them have their heads blown off by the way I run into them, but I'm still alive.
— So you know everything about yourself — as the ultimate algorithm-so much that you get bored and therefore often have fun hacking someone?
— Something like that. I know everything about myself. But I still want to live. Live and have fun. Damn, this is adrenaline! Those who are in power, they feel power in the same way.
— And how often do you need to get this fun?
"All the time now. Because when I'm bored, I start breaking things. The last time I got bored, I sent the Rosselkhoznadzor to the North-West to sit me down. Eighty gigabytes of information. I even told the office that the Rosselkhoznadzor broke it, but they don't care.
— What did you expect?"
— That they will be interested in the presence of such a hole in the system. But they didn't want to close it. And there are personal data of all employees, information about where they went on vacation. Yes, to recruit them — three seconds. But I don't want to hide from the laws at all. I want to create a private intelligence company that will engage in espionage directly, in the open. I'm already doing it, but I don't have any company.
— And if you create a company in Russia — it will look as if the state supports you.
— I'll register it in the Cayman Islands."
— And if a hacker participates in elections, what does it look like?
- Information collection, information stuffing. Many people don't even know they're participating. There are also criminal forums where guys sit. A person goes there, starts suggesting topics, but everything is veiled. And people start doing something. We have Russia (Russian hackers. - "Expert") is a single entity. In other countries, hackers operate in separate groups. Therefore, we all immediately get something neatly thrown in on patriotism. We don't give a damn what to do with patriotism. We just need to be interested in beautiful things. It's funny when tsereushniki say: "Putin personally asked you..." Yes, Putin doesn't care, he called me and was like: "Pavel, will you hack America?" He correctly said once: "A hacker is a person who got up in the morning, drank vodka and thought:" Ah should I break Australia?"And it is. I get up in the morning, drink vodka and think: "Why don't I seat America?" I went and hacked something — and I'm having fun. And in order for me to crack what the state needs, they must cover me with some news so that I can approach it myself.
— So you are being manipulated?
- yes. As you are the owners of big data. Ah-ha-ha! This is excellent. Just fine!
Old Indians and sheriffs
- What did you want to be as a child?
— Well, who can you want to be in the USSR? A standard cosmonaut.
— Can you recall a case from your childhood when you experienced pure, childlike, unclouded joy?
- yes. I remember: on the first of September I came to the second class, it was a rainy day. They were all beautiful, in uniform, with white collars and bows. And there was a big puddle nearby. I'm going to run into this puddle like-woo-a-a-a! And they're all so dirty. All the collars are lined. I laughed heartily that day. Parents were called to school every day.
— So you're a bully?"
— Well, yes.
— Where did you study after school?
— I was kicked out of the humanities academy. I actually wanted to go to vocational school, but my mother forced me to finish my studies until the eleventh grade. But I studied in a specialized class, where we were trained for service in the police. We went through auto repair, hand-to-hand combat, forensics, autopsies. I just wanted to be a policeman. I thought they were real. And I'd make a good investigator. I have, when something is real, immediately adrenaline rushing. If I'm asked for a present without money, I'll do it. Here you can also ask hackers. You're a woman. You can fit in with hackers, and there with the help of appearance-once-once — and everything will be hacked for you.
— Why complicate everything so much-a woman, appearance ... it's enough to be a not very smart employee of the special services to manipulate you.
— But he has to be real and honest, so I can help him." I always start breeding them for corruption. If he immediately agrees to commit a crime, I lose interest in him. But some of them are real, correct guys. However, not in Moscow. Well, get on the Moscow — Vladivostok train and talk to people there. And you will see how people change: the further away from Moscow, the more real they become.
— And where do you get classified information, other than hacking?
- Usually people unknown to me throw it. The guys from Berkut often write to me. Damn, I want, as before, to lie in Odessa in the bay and not worry. And now I can't go there because of the war. In the eighteenth year, I seated the Ukrainian judicial power. I had access to all the emails of all the prosecutors in Ukraine. We wanted to send such a letter through these emails — from Putin, Trump and Poroshenko, in which they would apologize to people.
"For burning Odessa?"
- Completely for the entire war. We would have done it beautifully. But I reported to these stupid thugs, and the next day the SBU (Security Service of Ukraine. - "Expert") reported on a data leak. Our people are in contact with them, instead of ending the war. They don't need to end the war. And it bothers me. I was just so offended at the time…
"Just offended?"
— Of course! I could end the war. And I didn't finish it.
— Why did you consult?
"These are the rules of the game. But after that incident, I stopped following them. I just wanted everyone to get high. And now we are doing certain actions that will make everyone feel good. Everything will be clear and fair for everyone.
— Have you read the Strugatskys ' Roadside Picnic? There, one hero made his way to the Zone, to the golden ball that fulfills wishes, to make a wish: "Happiness for everyone, for free! And let no one leave offended! " The zone tore him apart.
— No, I haven't. I used to read a lot, then stopped, then started again. I've just stolen Pelevin's latest book, and I'll be reading it.
— Where was it stolen?"
— I got it out of the Eksmo publishing house itself.
- What did you do after school?
- Presser of cheese: poshekhonsky, Dutch, Russian... tasteless. Budget-friendly, like a liver sausage. And I like soft, with holes. Then in the Russian Railways in the computing center, then in the Pskov city administration for computers was responsible. And then my working life ended, there was only room left for the medal. And no one gave me a medal.
— How did you master computers?
— On a whim. I've never read any books about them. Well, what is hacking? You just understand the algorithm of the system and already know where you can get through. It's just an understanding, you don't need to be very good at it.
— And what else serious did you hack?
— I have seated the Chamber of Industry of the Russian Federation, and even got into the CEC computer. No, WADA is not me, these are schoolchildren from the Krasnodar Territory. And there was no need to hack — just sent an email with a virus, and that's it. Everyone knows who did what. Both ours and the CIA. They just have politics.
— Do you at least read the information that comes to you?
- no. I don't read any of the databases I distribute. I don't have time.
"What if there's something wrong?"
— And the information can't be good or bad. If it's a lie, it's a problem for the Indians. The people who start analyzing this information are sheriffs. And those who are immediately accepted on faith are Indians.
— Is it the Indians ' fault that they are Indians?"
"And it's never the Indians' fault. They've just always been Indians. They just need to strain a little bit and start analyzing, but they are too lazy. So why would I waste my time being compassionate to them and that's it?
— Don't you have any compassion at all?"
— Lately I've been forcing myself to test it — I go to watch melodramas.
"It works?"
"Sometimes, yes. And on the streets it is necessary to look for this, these compassions. And I can not leave the house for months, I sit and work at the computer. Well, let me tell you that I am a God. Believe in me, you don't care what you believe.
- And if you pump it to your grandmother or mother?
— And you can't change these people at all. They have their own. They believe the TV. That's why I have so much fun making fun of them. They're such old Indians.
— And you don't feel sorry for them, either?"
"What's the point?" This is just wasting time on worries, then your performance drops. This doesn't suit me. People are all the same. They only have skin, bones, and meat. The final algorithm.
"And the soul?"
"This is for the church."
— So you don't have a soul?"
— Well, no.
— Why do you suffer when you watch melodramas?
- Physiology. My tear glands start dripping under my T-shirt. You just have to learn to forget. You need to learn to repeat many evil actions in one unit of time, and the body will get so tired of it and get so used to it that it will begin to perceive this doing as a normal state.
— And then you will become a machine for producing countless evils.
— But it's important to me that I don't feel bad afterwards.
"It will be. How much money do you earn per month?
- Let's see... (Opens reports in your phone.). August — five hundred and sixty-seven thousand, July-eight hundred and six, one million three hundred. But I also distribute money to the entire team. Many people were very upset when I was disanonymized. But it made me at least a little safer. Anonymous users are very easy to remove.
Universal friendly self-knowledge
— Why do you think people are not worried about the transition to the digital world?
"They don't notice. Here's a look at what the coronavirus gave. People have been taught that all purchases can be made online. Everyone was told: "And let's do everything according to the "figure", without leaving the house. No need to go out, stay at home, like in America, eat a hamburger and watch TV. And be happy. And we will guess your wishes." And when face recognition cameras first appeared in Moscow, five Zhirinovskys, three Putins and one Zyuganov immediately entered the metro. Of course, this is a fake. No, not mine personally, I know the guys who developed this technology. They are ordinary engineers.
— Suppose someone wants to get back at me for something. So I didn't go to the subway, but the engineers take a woman who looks like me and put my face on her…
— Why take a woman, if now there are ready-made holograms? They are already practicing. They replace the announcers. Soon you'll all be watching holograms. Well, what? This is excellent. It will be more beautiful to read the news, the announcers will not have any physiological problems, they will be so constantly cheerful…
— But I want to see their physiological problems!" And I want to see a live person on the screen.
— And you will believe that he is alive."
"When he doesn't have a soul, I don't believe it."
— Then it will be a technological flaw. Do you need a hologram with your soul? No problem at all. As for the recognition cameras, if they let your hologram into the subway, you will never prove that it is not you.
— But if I'm charged with theft or murder and I wasn't there?"
— Your problems. So you're out of luck. So, you did something that greatly stressed out those who launched your hologram. It was necessary to try to strain people so much.
— But that's not fair…
— This is an information war.
— What about me…
"Nothing. All this is developing at such a pace... you will soon have no live presenters, no money, you will only have private companies-MTS and Google, which know everything about you and therefore control the world. Even now, when some efesoshnik comes to MTS and asks: "And let me listen to the phone," they can send it. The world is run by telecommunications companies, big data custodians, and large online retailers. They know your interests, they know what time and what you want. They know how you press keys, how you stroke your phone, how you touch it, when you're nervous and when you're doing fine. There are also such technologies, but they are unprofitable to use. You can also remove other markers from people. But it doesn't appeal to me.
— What are you working on now?
— Now we will go through the Russian banks in order to shake up the financial sector. We will publish the databases. In general, we want to create a zone like in Skolkovo, but in the Pskov region — such a demilitarized tax zone for IT companies. I want IT people to come to me, to be around me and to make everything cool.
— And you don't like being ignored, do you?"
- yes. I constantly warm him up to me. When people don't pay attention for a long time, it bothers me. Then I start to bully more seriously.
— How's that?"
- I'm leaking something about myself in the telegram channel. The office keeps telling me: "You're being manipulated." Then the United States, then Ukraine. But if it happens so imperceptibly for me, then I admire them — Stanislavsky! If I noticed how I was being manipulated, I would immediately break off this manipulation. But I accept that I am being manipulated, just as private companies are manipulating you. It's just that if you wanted to fight yourself, you could at least organize a flash mob. For example, all middle-level employees would simply freeze for a day and not go to work. And something would have to be done about it. But no one needs this fight.
— What's new in the near future you will merge?
— We have a plan. We want the whole globe to go nuts. We'll take the air, put stories on it, and sell it all to you.
— And what will it be?"
— I don't know yet. We hackers, sick people, alcoholics. And I have to create a separate world for us on the territory of Russia.
— And will you go there physically or with your head?
"More like my head." You need to buy an apartment for everyone, so that no one steams, and continue to work. I'll leave to study music.
— Can you sing?"
— Why be able to? This is technology.
— So you will use technology to write dead music?
- Great dead music. I don't care how you feel when you listen to it. Well, turn yourself into robots, and we will not turn. If you want to, don't transform. But we will always give you something. For a lot of money, it would be possible to change your consciousness. If you are tired of looking at boots and handbags on the Internet, you could be flooded with this advertisement so that you would get so fucked up by these boots that you would throw out your phones and go back to push-button ones. "Oversaturate your head" — that's what they call it. Are you tired of being followed? And for a lot of money, we would have leaked the data of private companies ourselves, so that this tracking would become unnecessary. If the data is publicly available, what's the point of selling it? Or you can change your mind so that people will simply stop noticing that they are being followed. After all, what is surveillance? When a person realizes that he is constantly being watched, he begins to behave incorrectly, he begins to behave like a criminal. Well, change his mind, and let him not worry that he is being watched. Here I am constantly watched, and I do not worry. You're still soaring, aren't you? There is a good drug — phenibut. In America, too, everyone is on drugs, so as not to suffer from the fact that they are being monitored. Drink Chinese tea, too, relaxes. Practice yoga. Go out into nature more often.
— I don't think that I will stop straining after all this.
— Go again. In general, work more with nature. Leave Moscow for our town, there are no cameras here. We have clean air here, and everything is great.
— And what, in your opinion, does the average person suffer more from-state control or control of private companies?
— Only from private companies. The state only collects your data, but it can't analyze it — there are suckers there. Well, you gave everything to private companies yourself. I bought the last phone, and all the apps were cut out of it after Google had a fight with Huawei. I don't have a playmarket. But you have one, and it's used to track you.
- Cattle.
— And he's hearing what you just said about them." But I'm not interested in it right now. I used to walk, look around, and then I broke down, and I realized that everything is different.
- Have you asked for a second time?
- Yes, I reset the factory setting and became what I was when I was born as a child. I let go of my fear. Here everyone is afraid that they will be called to the carpet. And I realized that this is the coolest thing. They don't kick you in the face, but you can have fun. I was once scolded that I came to the administration in sportswear to work. And I'm like, " Hey, I'm going to go under the table, my pants will tear on my ass." The mayor understood this and respected me.
— What else did you drop?"
"Only fears. Now I don't waste time being afraid. Anything can be lived through. I passed on intelligence on Iraq, and a month later I learned from the newspaper that there was a missile strike there.
— Where did you get the data?
- I got it. It was a drain. I told you that after Snowden, the intelligence agencies themselves stopped communicating directly. But the information should work. Although, if I see that people will suffer from this information, I will not pass it on. In the case of Iraq, I didn't see it.
— And then when you found out what you thought?"
- Well, sorry, it just happened.
"And the children?" They were dead, too.
- And children are generally expendable for them.
"And for you?"
— And in our country, they never hide behind children.
— It seems to me that you now want to merge your curators.
- Don't merge it. I want them to have such a pistol inserted so that they understand that they also work for their homeland. And then they'll tell me how they put the pistol in them, and I'll have fun. But today the guys missed it, and they should have brought me a chocolate bar before I met you in the morning.
— And you wouldn't date me for a chocolate bar?"
— I would. And there's nothing you can do about it.
— Do you have any enemies?"
— There are a lot of people I'm stopping from working their filthy jobs. And that's why I used to be booked on criminal forums every year.
"Let me read what it says on your T-shirt." "Violent temper. They don't remember the good ones, so don't let them forget the bad ones." Hmm, your motto?
"Probably. I only found out what it said when you read it. Kindness is the most painful thing. When you do good to people, it always hurts a lot afterwards. And when you do them harm, they start to fear you. If you do good, you will be destroyed altogether. For the good always arrives.
— And it's at this moment of arrival that we feel alive.
— No matter how hard it comes, it's still a righteous pain. Yes, a righteous pain. No matter how hard they beat you, you did the right thing. You can even die for the right thing, but you can die with pleasure, knowing that you will be remembered and you will live forever. And evil is temporary, and it simply delays your destruction.
— You could destroy private companies if you wanted to?"
— I could destroy the banks." In principle, we are already sitting in all banks. On a one-time basis, we can simply reset all digital money to zero. And if we want to, we will do it.
— And we that, without money on accounts will remain?!
— Well, you will plant potatoes, you will engage in barter. In Russia, no one will let you starve to death.
— Have you ever been prevented from starving to death?"
— They stopped me from dying three times. So many times I've tried to commit suicide. But they pulled it out three times.
— Why did you do that?"
— I don't know. It was boring, everything was completely tired.
— But you know how to cheer yourself up."
— But then it was not interesting at all. Just the head stops, and you realize: a-a-a, dyshch, not interesting. I don't have any such problems right now. Now I know that some moments just need to sit in silence.
— So you get hurt at such moments?
"Everyone's physiology is the same.
— I think you're telling me about heartache."
"Yes, yes, yes. But I always chose ways to leave not sick. It just stops consciousness, you are no longer interested in anything, and it is constant - like a toothache.
- And digitalization also leads to all this. A person is deprived of the right to solitude, the right to privacy, and it becomes unbearable for him to be alone with himself.
— Don't know where to stay in yourself." This is an expression. But where did I get it from? You can learn how to sit naked on Red Square and stay in yourself so that nothing floats you. I'm in this state right now. I learned. But then I didn't know how. This state comes most effectively through pain and through suffering.
"Which you deny, by the way."
— But if you specifically suffer this, then it will not come to you again. Because you've suffered everything you can. And don't worry about the people. It will just change. Everyone will wear white and live as the higher mind teaches. Everyone will become calm and engage in self-development.
— But will humanity, on the contrary, come to the state in which you wanted to kill yourself?
"What's the difference?" They won't let him die anyway. Like me. I'm fine now.
— Are you lonely?"
— I've always been lonely before. Especially when you realize that you are a genius, but no one needs you, and you are left alone. But now, on the contrary, I want to live and pass on my knowledge. I generally believe that we hackers are the soul of the people. We still have some values preserved.
— You don't believe in the soul, do you…
— I don't believe in material values. You can't bring people back to what they were before. We didn't have cell phones before, but like dolphins without phones, we knew who was where. This has already been erased from people. Friendship has disappeared, everyone is sitting with these technologies in their phones. I don't have any friends in my phone numbers. I didn't have to call earlier, I went out into the yard and knew where the boys were now. There were plenty of places they could be, though. But I went where they were.
"Did you feel like it?"
"Yes, something like that. It was everyone's friendly self-awareness. We can destroy these private companies now, but ordinary people will also suffer. Instead of one operator, another one will appear. It is impossible to force them not to collect our data at all. Therefore, we will soon make them depreciate. But it's easier to change people's minds so that they don't sweat it. Oh, selling your data? So someone needs you! And dofiga someone-all companies, wildeberrizam-shmayrizam, ozonamazonam. Everyone needs us! We employ thousands of engineers! They get millions of dollars to sell our information! We are a pool of money for them! We are the same slush of money! Without us, everything will disappear. Only sometimes you want to commit suicide. Probably ... sometimes.
