The world of consciousness and the consciousness of the world

[Teacher]

Ten leading Russian researchers in the field of neurobiology, neurophysiology, genetics, philosophy and psychology for three days had a difficult dialogue with the spiritual leader of Buddhism, the Dalai Lama and Buddhist monks at the conference "Comprehending the World".

The most difficult because Western science is not accustomed to thinking and reasoning in "universal" concepts that cannot be touched, measured, decomposed into components. She is not accustomed, but has recently been striving for this, at least its best representatives, who came to the north of India in Dharamsala, where the residence of the Dalai Lama is located in the foothills of the Himalayas. The dialogue conference was organized by the Save Tibet Foundation, the Dalai Lama Foundation, the Center for Tibetan Culture and Information with the support of the Institute of Philosophy of the Russian Academy of Sciences and the Center for the Study of Consciousness at Moscow State University.

Why do we need it

In August last year, Russian scientists already met with the Dalai Lama in one of the hotels in Delhi, but this, according to the participants, was more of an introductory, "targeted" meeting, which did not imply deep interpenetration and the development of specific joint projects.

The purpose of this series of meetings (it is assumed that they will be continued) is to develop common approaches in fundamental issues of the study of the brain and consciousness, evolutionary biology, genetics, cosmology, physics. The basis for the discussion was the Dalai Lama's book "The Universe in One Atom", published several years ago, which is devoted to establishing a dialogue in the knowledge of the world between Western and "Buddhist" science.

Why is this necessary for Western science, which has a solid methodology, a level of evidence, rules for setting up an experiment? It turns out - and this was discussed at the meeting in the first place - it is this methodology that in many ways slows down, hinders development.

- In fact, there are two traditions of Western science - before Pythagoras and after him. - the participant of the meeting, a physicist by education, physiologist, brain researcher, founder of the Human Brain Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences, Academician SV Medvedev. - In the days of Ancient Egypt, the Pythagorean theorem was not proven, but the builders of the pyramids knew what the square of the hypotenuse is. otherwise these buildings would have collapsed. Western science has gone the Greek way, when every position requires proof. And this is not at all necessary, often there is enough strong logic, solid knowledge to build a correct hypothesis. This is how Buddhist science is built, and. By the way, Russian science has been very successful in this. Our predecessors IM Sechenov. IP Pavlov, VM Bekhterev built models, theories, which were experimentally confirmed only decades later. But the law of conservation of energy - the basis of our model of the world - has not yet been proven. How are Buddhist constructions based on more than two thousand years of experience inferior to him?

The need for a Buddhist methodology for the study of the introspective, inner self is increasingly felt today in the field of research into higher brain functions. Western researchers, getting more and more quantitative data on the correlation of specific zones, regions of the brain, communities of neurons with certain cognitive functions and mental states, nevertheless cannot create a holistic picture, understand why and how this system gives rise to our subjective world.

- There is an uninterrupted chain of explanation of the world around us, with which natural science copes quite confidently, starting from the fundamental levels of the structure of matter, energy, space and ending with biological structures, - Corresponding Member of the Russian Academy of Sciences, Professor KV Anokhin, who became the scientific organizer of this meeting from the Russian side. - But then the question arises of the human psyche and the human "I". On the one hand, we understand that this is the next step in the natural chain of evolution, which has its own history on Earth dating back hundreds of millions of years. It was a very long, laborious process associated with the evolution of the brain, but there is a great obstacle for its cognition and inclusion in this chain of natural scientific explanation. It lies in the fact that the phenomena, observed in this world are subjective, they are inside each of us. Whereas the rest of science in the form as it originated in Western Europe. is built on objective research, that is, on intersubjective: many observers should be able to record the same phenomenon, be able to reconcile their observations and come to the conclusion that they are registering the same thing. This is the key third-person approach of Western science. Naturally, Western science has applied it to the study of our "I", that is, the psyche and consciousness. The history of Western psychology is largely an attempt to investigate the psyche with the same tools as in physics and chemistry. biology. But at the same time, the concept of first-person perspective began to slip away: how, by studying behavior by objective methods, studying the work of the brain, which we also look at from the perspective of an observer, a third person. - how to explain the subjective world with the help of these tools and concepts based on them? How to include the first person in this natural science picture? If you do not include it, then both philosophers and thinking people will rightly tell you that you do not explain the most important thing that interests us. - our unique and subjective self. then both philosophers and thinking people will rightly tell you that you do not explain the most important thing that interests us. - our unique and subjective self. then both philosophers and thinking people will rightly tell you that you do not explain the most important thing that interests us.

Therefore, when in the early 90s. XX century a new wave of scientific research on consciousness began to develop, scientists received, in fact, mechanical circuits, a lot of what happens in the brain became known, but this did not explain why this was happening.

How to be? At the meeting, the participants spoke about the need for principled higher-level approaches that could combine phenomenology in all senses (subjective sensations and emotions with phenomenology in a philosophical sense), that is, a first-person position, with the position of an objective observant psychologist, a representative of natural sciences, neurobiologist, neurophysiologist-observer. Three in one! To accomplish this, it is necessary, first of all, a basic framework-diagram, when all three participants will be consistently connected within a single representation. And the methods at our disposal should also be complementary - methods of self-observation and “self-influence” on mental processes, methods of objective psychology and methods of studying the brain from a third person. Until now, these directions have run in parallel.

The search for this paradigm is underway, it is in purely Western attempts to solve the problem and those who take just the experience of Buddhism. One of them is the neurophenomenology of Francisco Varela, an eminent scientist of Chilean origin who worked in France. In 1987, he met the Dalai Lama, and they immediately understood each other, since both recognized that Buddhism is also a path from phenomenology, an approach to researching one's inner self. That is, Buddhism in this sense is a systematic method of cognition and transformation of your mind, when you use only it yourself, without resorting to external observers or devices.

- It is very difficult for us to assess this, - KV continues. Anokhin, - but Buddhist psychology, which developed as a result of these practices over 2,500 years, is much more differentiated and multifaceted in comparison with Western psychology. This difference is similar to how we Europeans know only a few shades of snow, and eximos have 500 terms to denote its shades and states. And in this sense, a deeply developed system and taxonomy of mental states in Buddhist psychology is a great wealth.

So why does Western science need integration, or at least interaction with Buddhist science? First of all, as follows from the discussion, it is necessary for the science of the brain, which studies higher functions. Ideally, the result of such interaction should be the creation of a new discipline that overcomes the barrier between biology and psychology, which, in the usual methods of studying the brain and psyche (from a third person or with the help of an observer), will also include the perspectives of the first person simultaneously both as a method and as an object. research.

For Western neuroscience, according to the scientist, contacts with the Buddhist experience of consciousness research is even more than the appearance of psychoanalysis in its time. When psychoanalysis appeared, it changed the theory and practice of studying the inner world of a person. And now we can use the results of the two thousand-year tradition of Buddhism in the study of this inner world from the first person, try to combine them with the objective methods of Western science.

Key questions and "translation difficulties"

On the eve of a series of sessions that can be safely called debates, the participants exchanged questions for discussion. In addition to the leading (or, as they were called here, senior) scientists, young researchers took part in the discussion. The composition of the receiving party was selected according to the same principle: monks-mentors and young monks, and, of course, at the top of the “pyramid” —the Dalai Lama, whose questions have puzzled more than one generation of Western researchers ...

It is worth noting that studying at a Buddhist monastery lasts 21 years, and this is only the main stage, while preparation at a western university, taking into account postgraduate studies or obtaining a PhD degree, takes about ten years. From a young age, Buddhist monks learn to debate, master the ability to develop their thesis by building a logical chain. They are also completely devoid of skepticism (which sometimes slipped on the faces of our young participants), listen and absorb everything with extreme attention and respect.

Here are some key questions from the Dalai Lama and Buddhist monks that have been suggested for discussion.

• What does Western science understand by the term "consciousness"?

• Can we develop such methods of studying consciousness that would allow us to fix its properties?

• Today, there is no doubt that sensory perception is directly dependent on the physical characteristics and functioning of the body. But isn't this proof that changes in our body can occur as a consequence, the result of our thoughts?

• At what point in the formation of the fetus does consciousness first arise?

• Do you admit that the moment of maximum concentration during very deep meditation can be associated with specific areas of the brain?

• Do insects, such as mosquitoes, feel emotion? What do the results of studies of Western science say about this?

• There are many cases when the consciousness of a dying person becomes clear in the last seconds of life. In a recent study of end-of-life experience in the UK, 70% of nurses caring for dementia patients at home experienced dramatic improvements in memory in their carers about an hour before death. How can modern neuroscience explain these facts?

• What is the relationship of genetic engineering and selection with the Buddhist concept of karma?

During the discussion, the participants faced the main problem that did not allow them to reliably assess each other's positions.

• We speak different languages, - Professor VG Lysenko, Head of the Department of Oriental Philosophy, Institute of Philosophy, Russian Academy of Sciences. - We formulate the question from the Western mental positions, but they do not understand us, and vice versa. It is very difficult to formulate a question in such a way as to get an answer to it.

First of all, the discrepancies concerned the meaning of the basic term - what is meant by consciousness. In Russian neurophysiology and psychology, the search for a definition of this concept has been going on for a long time, several symposia “Brain and Consciousness” have been organized, but there is still no generally accepted definition. And yet, with different approaches within our scientific community, they reflect a single layer, while Buddhists understand consciousness as a completely different level.

• By consciousness, Buddhists mean in general the whole range of mental reactions and mental, cognitive capabilities, explains DB Volkov, Doctor of Philosophy, Director of the Center for the Study of Consciousness, Moscow State University. - Perhaps in everyday language we mean the same thing, but in science and philosophy there are clearly defined terms, and philosophers strive to clarify and narrow this meaning. Therefore, of all that Buddhists call consciousness, analytical philosophers single out only one tiny but important aspect: subjective experiences, the subjective component.

I am glad that at the conference a proposal was made to compile and publish a dictionary of terms and concepts that would help us communicate in the same language. And the second good offer is exchanges of scientists and students. We gain experience in performing and understand how to perform for this audience. For example, I personally realized that you need to operate in non-abstract terms. The Buddhist language is primarily the language of history. They often convey their ideas using examples, life situations that are close to everyone, and it is on them that you can build an initial acquaintance with each other's positions.

Interestingly, much of the appeal to "Buddhism in Science" comes from weakness and insufficient development and knowledge of philosophy in the West.

According to DB Volkov, in the last decade in Europe and America "there have been sprouts of revival" (Russia, of course, has its own way here too - we have long perceived philosophy as an ideology).

- The most promising in the world today, - DB Volkov, - a direction called analytical philosophy, built on logic. It is a rigorous science that is farthest from art and closest to mathematics, logic and science. This is reasoning based on good subject knowledge. In general, in 10-15 years, the profession of a philosopher will be more in demand and paid than the profession of a programmer. The fact is that almost all industries are automated and very soon many professions will be automated, including. for example, a doctor and a lawyer. But what is most difficult to automate is a person's ability for creativity, critical thinking. Philosophy teaches a person to analyze, generalize, question key and general views, teaches him to doubt, and doubt is going beyond the given, path to innovation. A philosophy based on unification with natural disciplines will be especially in demand. Buddhists, who supplement their metaphysical research with the natural sciences, have followed this path for more than 2 thousand years.

Experiment on yourself

By the last day of the debate, Russian brain researchers have already outlined a specific pool of problems that can be solved together with Buddhist scientists, using each other's approaches and methodology.

First of all, this is the study of the mind from the perspective of the first and third person through the use of objective research of the brain. Theoretically, this can be done in two ways. The first is to integrate the "first person" into objective research, that is, the object and subject of research will be a Buddhist practitioner, who will additionally

equipped with the methods and equipment that Western science has at its disposal. The second is that the Western researcher himself becomes the “first person”, object and subject, masters the Buddhist technique of intraspection and at the same time uses his usual methodology and equipment. What is simpler and more effective is not yet clear, but most likely both approaches will be used.

Studies of the phenomenon of "life after death", already undertaken by Western science, can be continued at a new level, if as a model we use the state that some Buddhist elders-practitioners can achieve. It is known that their bodies are capable of not decaying for many weeks, and it can be assumed that they are in some kind of "intermediate" state.

It is possible to undertake such an experiment, of course, having thought it over well, but it is even more important to understand whether new fundamental knowledge will be obtained as a result.

- It is clear that what we call consciousness, and this, from our point of view, is a special type of processes in the brain, - argues KV Anokhin. - is able to control the somatic processes in the rest of the body. This, in principle, is nothing new. We will simply get confirmation of the unconditionally extreme possibilities of mental control of the body, which nevertheless do not go beyond the natural. Can the body continue to exist in some "intermediate" state as a result of these practices for 18 days after death, without decay? It is quite possible, and I do not believe that this fact should destroy our natural scientific ideas. I can think of a number of explanations for this that will not destroy my picture of the world, but simply expand it.

During the debate, the following related question naturally arose: how does the brain behave? Is it possible to investigate with modern methods at a very deep cellular, network, imaging level what happens to the brain after death, what processes continue and stop flowing in it, and for how long?

It is difficult to imagine a more fascinating and ethically controversial task than this one. But let's not forget about "translation difficulties"; for Buddhist scholars, life and death are familiar concepts and approaches. However, they also have a phenomenon, the verification of which can destroy the "main support". This is the idea of rebirth, the cornerstone of Buddhist teaching. In a private conversation with the Dalai Lama, one of the participants asked him: “You have already held more than a dozen conferences with Western scientists, planned and even carried out joint experiments, but no one ever raised the issue of rebirth. Is this a religious taboo? "The Dalai Lama replied: no, it is Western scientists who do not want to deal with this problem, he is open for a joint experiment.

One of such approaches, which makes it possible to make the phenomenon of memories of past lives an object of scientific research, was voiced by Russian scientists in Dharamsala. There are many cases where young children between the ages of two and four begin to claim to remember episodes that are not related to their current life. In Northern India, this is about one child in 500, that is, in theory, the phenomenon is not something unique. Therefore, it can become an object of research by specialists in the field of memory development in a child. The fact is that modern psychology of memory and cognitive neuroscience already know a lot about different forms of memory and their development in childhood: when and how semantic, episodic, autobiographical memory is formed, what should be observed in this case,

and what not. which areas of the brain are responsible for each of these forms of memory. Let's say a child has some unusual memories that cannot be explained by the parents and worries them. A specialist in the field of memory development can assess how unusual they are, to what extent they are explained by the child's past experience, previously formed concepts, knowledge. It is also possible to compare the processes in the brain that occur in children at the time of memories of the "past" life and current ones, and find out if there are differences. You can also compare them to patterns of brain activity when children are just fantasizing. (It is noteworthy that this unusual phenomenon disappears with age, by the age of six or eight, which corresponds to the time of the so-called childhood amnesia,

- If such a phenomenon exists, it will destroy my scientific picture of the world, I will have to build it anew, - KV said before the closing of the conference. Anokhin. - And if not, then it undermines the main provisions of not only Buddhist science, but Buddhist philosophy in general. In short, this is a very risky path. Although I think that the scientific knowledge formed today is very stable and it is Buddhist ideas that are at risk.

It was supported by Academician NK Yankovsky:

- I know one law: ontogeny follows phylogeny. The development of the individual repeats the development of the species. However, Buddhist science believes that the individual consciousness of the subject in this life is a continuation of his consciousness in the previous life. Will we be able to distinguish between the development of consciousness at the individual level and the development at the evolutionary level that repeats it? I would like to see evidence of this phenomenon within the framework of my understanding of the world and am ready to challenge my views.

It is difficult to say how events will develop and whether these ideas will reach practical implementation. However, we know from the history of science. that in an effort to expand his knowledge or find an explanation for the inexplicable scientist can hardly stop something.

Interviewed by Elena Kokurina

 

[Teacher]

DALAI LAMA XIV: "A TEACHING CANNOT BE TAKEN ON FAITH"

The editors would like to thank the Save Tibet Foundation staff for organizing and helping prepare the interview with the Dalai Lama

In an interview with the magazine "In the world of science", the spiritual leader of Buddhists shared his thoughts on the advantages and disadvantages of the Western scientific worldview and the prospect of joint research and practice.

- Your Holiness, you show a great interest in Western science, visit laboratories, discuss with researchers, organize meetings and debates. What brings Western and Buddhist science closer together?

- To begin with, I would like to say a few words about the background, about that. why is such a dialogue possible between Buddhist and Western science (when I say “Western,” I mean the Russian scientific school as well). Let me remind you that Buddhism brought to Tibet in the VIII century. the great mentor of the ancient Indian monastery-university of Nalanda Shantarakshita. He was an outstanding philosopher and logician. This is understandable: a logical approach, the ability to ask questions, skepticism are very important. One should not just accept something or believe in something. or take on faith just because a great man said so and it must be true. Buddha himself told his followers and monks: "You should not take my teaching on faith." Therefore, Nalanda's mentors made a distinction between which of the Buddha ' s teachings can be taken literally and which need to be interpreted. I think.

Emphasis on logical thinking and experimentation. inherent in our tradition, brings it closer to the Western scientific approach. But in one aspect, the methods of science and Buddhism are quite different: the scientific researcher carries out an experiment using various tools to analyze external phenomena, while spiritual research begins with the development of refined attention, which is then applied to the introspective study of the world of inner experience.

Buddha was one of the ancient Buddhist scholars and a great thinker. Just imagine: he was 2.5 thousand years ago. in fact, outlined the provisions of quantum physics! That is why for more than 30 years now I have been participating in dialogues with modern scientists: we are discussing in detail questions of cosmology. neurobiology, physics (especially quantum physics) and psychology. I can say that these discussions on four areas of knowledge are of mutual benefit to us. In the Tibetan Buddhist tradition, there is knowledge in cosmology as well as neurobiology, especially in the field of medicine. But from dialogues with modern scientists, we have learned a lot for ourselves. As for quantum physics, then here we are. perhaps more is known than modern science.

- Can you elaborate on this? In your book The World in One Atom, you write that quantum mechanics is practically a reflection of the Buddhist approach.

- Buddhism explains in great detail that nothing exists independently, independently. Or. for example, the problem of the observer, key to quantum physics. Modern science cannot answer the question of where the observer is, it has yet to investigate this.

I believe that the question of the role of the observer is one of the most difficult in quantum physics. Some physicists argue that the role of the observer is reduced to the choice of observation instruments, while others insist that the observer himself is a full-fledged participant in the emergence of the observed reality.

This question has long remained the focus of discussions among Buddhist thinkers.

Basically, the philosophical problem posed to physicists by discoveries in the field of quantum mechanics boils down to whether the concept of matter as consisting of the smallest, but in the absolute sense, real particles is generally acceptable. In this regard, the Buddhist "theory of emptiness" can offer a consistent model for understanding reality as not having its own independent essence in the final sense. This theory asserts the inconsistency of any belief in objective reality based on the idea of the existence of independent objects endowed with their own properties. All objects and events, be they material or speculative entities, or even such abstract representations as time, do not have an objective identity. Assumption of the existence of such an independent, by their own nature of their inherent being leads to the conclusion. that things and events are completely complete in themselves, and therefore completely self-sufficient. From this, in turn, it follows that all phenomena are not able to interact with each other and influence each other. But we observe the opposite, which means that such a premise is incorrect.

Nevertheless, modern physicists, unlike the theorists of Buddhism, can expand the perceiving power of the eye to incredible limits through the use of various instruments - giant telescopes (for example, the Hubble Space Telescope) or electron microscopes. The result was the accumulation of previously unimaginable volumes of empirical knowledge about the structure of material objects. In light of these changes, I insisted on the need to teach the fundamentals of modern physics in some monastic schools of Tibetan Buddhism. At the same time, I think that in fact we are not introducing a new subject into the curriculum, but only improving the existing curriculum.

- One of the main points of contact between Western and Buddhist science is the study of mental functions and the notorious question of what “consciousness” is. In your opinion, having at their disposal the most sophisticated ultra-precise technology, have Western scientists advanced in this direction? Can Buddhism Help?

- In comparison with the ancient Indian tradition, modern psychology is still at the level of a kindergarten, it is taking its first steps. Buddhism inherited this knowledge from Ancient India. where this science was very developed even before the coming of the Buddha. In ancient India, there were practices of shamatha and vipashyana, which can be attributed to the field of psychology, the science of consciousness. Buddhist psychology became part of this knowledge system.

Western psychology deals with only five, as we call it, "types of consciousness" associated with the senses. With regard to sight, hearing and the like, animals have these senses better developed than humans. Let's say I have a very weak sense of smell. (Although sometimes this also turns out to be useful: for example, when I find myself in a place where it smells, I do not feel it.) In general, animals see us much better. hear etc., because their survival depends on it. The part of the brain that is responsible for sensory perception. developed about the same in us and in animals. But the mechanisms, the systems of the brain that provide thinking. in humans it is much more difficult. This suggests that if the survival of animals depends on sensory perception, then our survival depends on the ability to think, on knowledge. However, if you use this knowledge only to achieve material goals related to sense gratification, this is not enough. We must analyze - what disturbs the peace of mind? These are not external causes, but our own consciousness. So, the main difference is. that Western science considers only five senses, ignoring the main, sixth - "consciousness". The first five senses are related to the field of sensory perception, while the last includes a wide range of mental states - from memory and will to imagination. Mental states. related to the field of sensory perception. are derivatives of the activities of the five senses, considered material, while purely mental experience is largely independent of the physical basis. We must analyze - what disturbs the peace of mind? These are not external causes, but our own consciousness. So, the main difference is. that Western science considers only five senses, ignoring the main, sixth - "consciousness". The first five senses are related to the field of sensory perception, while the last includes a wide range of mental states - from memory and will to imagination. Mental states. related to the field of sensory perception. are derivatives of the activities of the five senses, considered material, while purely mental experience is largely independent of the physical basis.

It is the training of this basic consciousness, and not the state associated with the senses, that our practices are devoted. In Western psychology, there is no knowledge at all about this "basic consciousness." When we sleep deeply, there are five kinds of consciousness. those associated with the senses are practically inactive, but the "basic consciousness" is present.

- Among Western researchers of the brain, psychologists, philosophers, there is no agreement on the definition of "consciousness", what exactly is meant by this concept ...

- Western philosophy and science in general tend to explain consciousness exclusively in terms related to the processes of the functioning of the brain. This reductionist approach reduces nature and the very existence of mind to matter. Some scientists see the mind in terms of a computer model, something like artificial intelligence. However, as far as I know, in modern neurophysiology, the question is being discussed: are the mind and consciousness something more than a simple result of brain activity, and do perception and emotions go beyond chemical reactions? To what extent does the world of subjective experience depend on the substance of the brain and the peculiarities of its work? This dependence should exist to some extent, but is it absolute?

I think until the end of the XX century. scientists studied only the brain and neural connections, believing that consciousness is reduced to them. But towards the end of the last century, they experimentally discovered that. for example, as a result of meditation, major changes occur in the brain, and a phenomenon called "neuroplasticity" was discovered. That is, "training of consciousness" leads to visible changes in the brain. And today, many Western researchers agree that there is something that can affect the brain.

And yet, the scientific equipment and methods of scientific research of the last decade are truly amazing, but as for the scientific discoveries of modern Western science, believe me, there is nothing new in them for us.

“Still, you encourage monks to participate in electrophysiological research in a state of meditation. Did these experiments bring something new to Buddhist science? What would you personally like to know about yourself using the tools of Western science?

“These experiments brought new knowledge to Western brain scientists. We don't know ... I think we need to do more research. During our debates with Russian scientists here in Dharamsala, one of them offered to bring here equipment, quite voluminous. Today. when in the East, in the West, in America, Europe, even in China and, of course, in Russia, many scientists express their interest in dialogue, I think our work should not be limited to single meetings. Therefore, I consider this idea of delivering scientific equipment to Dharamsala very important. We could eventually set up a laboratory here, enlist the cooperation of some institute, a university in Delhi, to research some of the hermit practitioners. Many of them spend the whole year in the snowy mountains. They have the ability to develop inner warmth. I would have met such contemplators with great interest. These are common practices, they exist among Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, and I am seriously thinking about arranging a meeting with Indian spiritual leaders at some point, including very experienced practitioners. We will have something to discuss. The Tibetans also have a tradition of performing such practices.

On the coldest winter days, practitioners remain completely naked or dressed in very thin clothes. At night, they take a piece of cloth, dip it in cold water, and then wrap it around the body. Steam rises, the fabric heats up and eventually dries out. Then it is again dipped in water and wrapped around the body again. And so during the night - nine or ten hours - they change this fabric ten times a night. Thus, meditation contributes to the development of what we call "inner warmth", "kundalini". Kundalini is generated here (he puts his hand on the chest ), and chandalini is produced here (points to his head).I met a monk who, by the power of his meditation, could direct his internal energy through his finger to a pile of sand, and one could observe how the sand was scattered. Through deep meditation, one can gain the great ability to control energy. If an experiment records this process, shows how it happens, scientists will receive completely new information about consciousness.

- What will it give people? In Western science, an experiment is often carried out to obtain a result, for the sake of knowledge itself. But Buddhist scholars are trying to comprehend the relationship, the consequences.

- Ability to manage emotions. After all, the real source of both strength and problems for a person is consciousness, not the body. If we don't know what consciousness is, how can we deal with destructive emotions? They cannot be defeated with weapons or vodka. Destructive emotions must be opposed to a phenomenon of the same nature - emotions, but relying on logic, on understanding reality.

I believe that all the problems of both modern Western civilization and its individual people stem from the inability to control emotions. If we say that compassion is important because Buddha or Jesus Christ or Muhammad taught so, then people will simply dismiss it. And even if we threaten them with hell for their sins, they will not be much afraid. However, people listen to the opinion of scientists. And today, scientific research shows that compassion is inherent in humans. Once, at a meeting with scientists, one of the participants invited us to watch a video illustrating this thesis. In it, a six-month-old child was shown a cartoon in which smiling children played with each other. And the child, looking at the screen, also smiled and expressed joy. Then the same child was shown another cartoon where two children were fighting, and he, looking at the screen, was upset. It's pretty convincing.

Medical scientists believe that constant anger and fear destroy our immune system, while a compassionate mindset is beneficial for our health. When speaking to people (including children) about the importance of compassion, we must first of all look to their own experience - that everyone likes smiles and dislikes angry faces. Then it should be told that in the long term, constant fear and anger are very harmful to our health, and a compassionate mindset, a smile, on the contrary, is beneficial for health and longevity. The best condition for longevity is peace of mind.

We must educate people, tell them that nonviolence and adherence to secular ethics are in their own interests. This is not needed for the next life, no. Take sleep, for example. If during the day you maintain warmth, then you will have good dreams. And if during the day you experience strong anger or fear, then in a dream you will continue to be afraid and you will have nightmares.

According to ancient Indian psychology, peace of mind is not disturbed by external causes, but by our own negative emotions, anger and fear. Anger comes from irritation, and the cause of irritation is fear. Fear is born of distrust. which in turn arises from extreme egocentrism, lack of concern for the welfare of others and focus only on oneself. If we analyze whether there is any benefit from egocentrism, we will see that it is very harmful to health. Excessive egocentrism creates fear, anger and hatred. And this, in turn, creates many problems that disturb the peace of the mind. This is the nature of things. Selfishness is not useful to ourselves. I often say that taking care of yourself is absolutely essential. But you can really take care of yourself only by showing concern for the welfare of others, because we are social animals. Today, the future of each of us depends on the seven entire billion mankind. Take care of humanity, and this will bring you the most benefit.

- And when did you yourself experience the most intense fear in life, which was difficult to cope with?

- It was on the night of March 17, 1959. Before that, I had been trying for at least a week to resolve the consequences of the crisis that broke out in Lhasa on March 10. I tried to reduce the tension, but all my efforts were in vain. Day after day, night after night, new units of Chinese soldiers arrived in Lhasa. The Tibetans were desperate. And then it became clear that there was no choice but to run. The day before, the Chinese asked me to indicate in which room in Norbulingka, the summer residence of the Dalai Lamas, I would live so that they could protect me. Whether they really wanted to protect me, or, on the contrary, they needed to know my place of stay in order to more accurately aim the sight, I do not know. So on March 17, I decided to run. It was then, on the night of the escape, that I experienced intense fear, I did not know if I would see the next day. We had to walk past the positions of the Chinese soldiers. They rode on horses and could hear the conversations of the Chinese sentries on the other side of the river, tried, if possible, to muffle the sound of horse hooves and did not light a fire.

Later, I again experienced not so much fear, but serious anxiety - during my meeting with Mao Zedong.

- How did you deal with this feeling?

- Through decades of training in consciousness, in accordance with the knowledge accumulated by the tradition of Nalanda. I am 82 years old, and I can say from my own experience that mind training is paying off. You shouldn't expect immediate results, but you have to work hard for decade after decade. And the most important of training is cultivating altruism. As a Buddhist practitioner and student of the Nalanda School of Philosophy, I know that nothing exists independently. Quantum physics speaks about the same. Today. after 50+ years of practice, I can see how much my emotions have changed. This became possible thanks, firstly, to the development of altruism, and secondly, reflections on the absence of independent existence. Nothing exists the way it seems to us. Today some scholars also say that destructive emotions are largely due to a superficial view of things. One American scientist. Aaron Beck (he is now almost 100 years old), a person far from religion, who has worked with patients with mental illness for a long time, once shared with me his conclusion. He said that when a person is angry with someone, the person he is angry with appears to be 100% negative. In fact, this perception of the object of anger is 90% due to the bias of our consciousness. that when a person is angry with someone, the one with whom he is angry appears to him to be 100% negative. In fact, this perception of the object of anger is 90% due to the bias of our consciousness. that when a person is angry with someone, the one with whom he is angry appears to him to be 100% negative. In fact, this perception of the object of anger is 90% due to the bias of our consciousness.

This is fully consistent with what the outstanding Indian thinker Nagarjuna said. Under the influence of anger, a person is even able to try to kill someone. But after a few hours, the attitude may change, and in a few years these people will become good friends. This could not have happened if the negative qualities we ascribe to the object of our anger were indeed real. Such emotions are based on an unjustified exaggeration of some of the qualities arising from the fact that we see only "appearance". The antidote here is a deeper understanding of reality, thinking that nothing exists independently. This practice is very powerful against destructive emotions. And if Western science confirms this idea for its part, we will get a powerful tool for the education and persuasion of people.

Perhaps science will also have to learn something from acquaintance with knowledge about spirituality, especially in such humanitarian fields. like morality or sociology, but that is certain. that some specifically scientific sections of Buddhist thought, such as ancient cosmological theories or obsolete physical concepts, need to be revisited in the light of modern scientific evidence.