Jollier
Professional
- Messages
- 1,401
- Reaction score
- 1,450
- Points
- 113
In this deep dive into the world of cybercrime, we lift the veil on the dark web. Our special guest shares his journey into the world of cashing, carding, and scamming, revealing what drove him to cross the line and the unique methods and strategies he used to operate. We explore the impact these activities have on the digital world and people’s lives, including scams, scams, fraud, online money-making schemes, and how to avoid becoming a victim of credit card theft. We cover topics related to card security with balance, data protection, and cashing out issues, and we reveal how scammers use phone schemes and other methods to deceive. We delve into the techniques and warnings that anyone looking to protect themselves in the age of digital threats should know.
Contents:
Introduction
Carder:
As long as there are mammoths, and mammoths will not die out, as they say, there will always be scam.
Speaker 2:
And I thought that I just got a dildo. That's where you send them, right? Carding is going to die any minute.
Carder:
You sent me your dickpics, that's how you communicated with me, I'll pass on all this info.
Speaker 1:
You can sit down for quite a long time. Yo-yo-yo, with you OG Dark, web-talk, hello everyone. Today we have a rather unusual episode, we will tell you, show you, slightly lift the curtain of secrecy of the black dark web, yes, so join us, listen to us and let's go! Ernest, can you please tell us a little about yourself, who you are, what did you do in the dark theme?
Carder:
My name is Ernest, let's say I was involved in dark-themed scanning, cashing out and carding.
Well, I never considered it as my main source of income. For me it was always a hustle, that is, to earn a little money to have a cutlet, to provide for my needs, interests, but in general I never considered it as my main source of income, I always planned to switch to something else at some point in time.
Speaker 1:
Did you have a moment when you realized that you were crossing the line of the law and you felt somehow unpleasant about it?
Carder:
Absolutely not, I understood that the actions that I do, in fact, if we are talking about carding, if If we are talking about cashing out, the end-user does not suffer from them, that is, in fact, the person from whom I, it turns out, deprive of funds, he actually gets them back. That is, everything I did was cheat the system, the same PayPal, or if we are talking about stuff carding, there, Amazon shops, eBay, it was all reimbursed. That is, it has never happened that a person's money was stolen and it was not returned to him, so it made absolutely no difference to me.
Moreover, such an interesting fact, all shops, well, not all, let's say, but the largest ones, they always had a budget for exactly the lost, like, stolen funds.
Speaker 1:
And are you sure that people got these funds back, or do you just think that ...
Carder:
It is easier for me to think so.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, okay.
Carder:
But I know for sure that when we looked, checked, they really came back with them.
Speaker 2:
That is, it turns out that here in some way you are Robin Hood in the world of the dark Internet. But in modern realities, essentially.
Carder:
No, I got the money for myself and spent it only on myself, so you can't say that.
Carding
Speaker 2:
Okay, fine, then let's move on to our first section, carding, let's go. So, regarding carding, let's talk in general. Can you tell us how this carding process is structured, how it works and what variations there are?
Carder:
Carding can be different, that is, if we talk about the main areas, it is either the so-called stuff carding, that is, obtaining some goods at the expense of stolen information. Well, or the area, I would identify another, this is specifically obtaining money in some way. That is, there, on crypto, or, well, again, there is, for example, an adjacent area, that is, it is considered a substance, but not really, that is, buying gifts, for example, some of them later, for example, a virtual gift card, maybe for 50 bucks, there is something like stuffing and you just resell it to him in a 3rd party, as they say, and you get it on your balance with clean money.
Speaker 1:
Can you explain how many key people are involved in one scheme for carding, for example? That is, who are the key people and how this money goes from some customer to the site and then to you, or I would like to hear more details.
Carder:
Yes, let me tell you. In essence, in this whole scheme there is a person who obtains information, yes, that is, by, for example, some, well, I don’t know, for example, now there are a lot of people who go, well, there have always been, go to a website and download some programs from unreliable sources. And there, SHIK, in fact, is just a tool that takes all this data from the victim’s computer.
Moreover, there are often programs that, at a minimum, can specify even several devices. But the point is that there is simply a person who obtains this information. That is, material, we call it obscene. It turns out that the one who obtained the obscene material, he transfers this obscene material, sells it. And there, so to speak, spills are made there. It is interesting that, for example, this material, naturally, is suitable for some purposes.
Someone, for example, uses PayPal and IBM. For a person who is interested in working on this topic, these are the main entry points that must be there to be able to work on this. Someone, for example, works in something else. For example, even stealing Netflix accounts, or something like that. That is, all sorts of little things. That is, a specific request is made for this-this-this material that is needed. Well, and so we get it, so to speak.
And on this material as a whole, work continues. That is, if it is some, there, Amazon, Ebay, then it turns out, this material is lookup through specifically for stuff carding. That is, ordering some goods. There is already a drop there, that is, a drop is an intermediary who takes these goods, well, and in general he simply transfers them to you through some kind of secure channel, that is, in fact, you already receive a clean product.
Speaker 2:
I have an intermediate question, yes, that is, you say, in principle, now carding in the modern world looks like this, that basically these are some kind of gift cards or electronic cards, which can all be obtained essentially remotely, yes, that is, you have already stopped working with physical cards, as it was, for example, before?
Carder:
No, we also work with physical cards, that is, this is also a type of material, yes, I just talked specifically about logs, logs are information that you virtually get there from cookies, from the browser, with all this, that is, with the help of which you can log into the user's account there in PayPal, or in a store, in some shop, people often link their card, their payment information specifically as their account.
That is, when you are already in this account, you can, in fact, make some purchase with someone else's payment information linked. But, of course, yes, the CCs are still working on the CCs, well, they are still beating them. They are beating them, well, that means they are working on them.
Speaker 1:
Therefore, dear friends, try to link virtual cards to your sites where you pay for something, preferably ones that do not have access to your main income, for example, your salary, and set spending limits there, so that fraudsters cannot use even stolen information against you.
Speaker 2:
Here we are now sitting, here we are now sitting, talking, and at this time our cards, money is being written off, gradually in small transactions, that this is a distraction in order to communicate and so that we are simply cashed in fact.
Carder:
Actually, really, even when we worked in my practice, we had a little joke, when we processed some amount of information, material, that is, you go into an account, for example, you see that, well, either a bank account or something else, you see that there are 5 thousand bucks, for example, on Balat, you can’t immediately drain them, the anti-fraud system won’t let you do it, you need to warm up these accounts first. But we usually, if there’s some kind of shop there, and we warmed them up, we took some random address of someone and there.
We had this topic, they ordered dildos, they cost 10 bucks there, you warm up the account for three days, then it lets you do normal things, make a purchase. And I was thinking,
Speaker 2:
I recently received a dildos the other day, like a parcel, where do you send them, right? From where, yes.
Speaker 1:
Yes, that's all clear. But I wonder if the person doesn't notice that funds are being debited from his card.
Carder:
Very often they don't notice, very often a person may be unavailable, or not actively monitoring it. In general, periodically, depending on what account, what payment information, you can turn off notifications altogether, so that none come.
Speaker 2:
Yes, in fact, we live in such a world now, subscriptions, now everyone lives on subscriptions, and you constantly receive a notification about a payment, and you may simply not notice that this is supposedly a regular transaction from some subscription, but in fact it may be a purchase there from your card of some, well, that is, items on the Internet, so that you can then somehow cash it out.
Carder:
Yes, that's right, that is, the price of these goods for warming up, it was always small and you really may not notice that it was some kind of purchase, rather than some kind of subscription. One of the reasons.
Well, in general, there are many reasons why a person may not notice this.
Speaker 1:
What carding methods did you use and has it become more difficult to do over time, since antifraud systems are getting stronger, programmers on the other side are also not standing still, they are trying to add 3D Secure, other authorization methods, for example, two-factor authentication, which has become a standard, for example, for some banking or financial applications.
Carder:
Well, look, first of all, over time, yes, it has become a little more difficult, before, sites generally gave out like the most inaccessible girls, that is, you just hit and hit, and that's it, and there are no problems. Here you need to understand an important point, of course, there, two factors and cool, cool a lot, well, so to speak, other interesting, you can, come up with protection methods, but it all comes down to the fact that it should be easy to use for an ordinary person. That is, an ordinary person, most likely, he will not enter 10 parallel in order to make some transaction, it is simply inconvenient for him.
Therefore, most likely, he will do this only after he has had a bad experience, that is, his funds have really been taken somewhere. Most people do not put all this. For ease of use, it is simply easier for them to pay, for example, let's say, with one click, one button, they use it.
Speaker 1:
And did you have any difficulties in your work, when you encountered, say, a two-factor authentication on a person's phone, right?
Carder:
And how did you overcome them? - Well, in general, it is the same with us at work, with PayPal. PayPal in general is, I would say, the most interesting
in operation, because there is a lot of it, the anti-fraud system works very well there. That is, if you analyze it, we really analyzed it, you need to configure the user agent very well so that you are let in as one of their own. What is a user agent? Well, in general, it turns out that we use programs that imitate the client's device, right?
Well, not the client, so to speak, the victim, I would say, the logs always contain information about what screen resolution, what system is used, what version of the browser is used. That is, all this information is available, if you use the right software that will fake this user agent, then you can safely log in, and the system will let you in. But, let's say, if you screwed up somewhere, even some small thing, actually, even the screen resolution is different, yes, not to mention the IP address, the login location, yes,
then it can ask you, so to speak, to jump into a security check, with what I called it, you will need to confirm with two factors that it is really you. Usually, when you work with logs, the security check says that the account needs to lie there for a while. If it lies there for some time, after that you can try to log in to it again. Very rarely did you have access to the client's phone.
But this security check can also be bypassed in different ways. It is even possible to simply change the phone number on the account. But this is also not so simple. It is better not to screw up, it is better to log in right away, quickly do everything and log out.
Speaker 2:
Okay, I think we can smoothly move on to the next question on this topic. You partially told about how you hide the possibility of tracking you, that is, you basically reproduce everything that the user does on his computer through the user agent, you do the same on your PC, you can tell, I'll probably change the question a little, what tools do you use for this, maybe these are some specific browsers, that is, which have the ability to change this user agent, VPN and so on?
Carder:
Personally, a little background, I just want to tell you so that you understand, I haven't been doing carding for about six months, because I just understand that this topic is not for me, I'm telling you what I did. Specifically, I used Soxy 9.1.1 proxy servers to mask myself, and I also used Linkin Sphere for the user agent and for work, there is such a program, a subscription to it costs $ 100 per month, That is, well, I would say that it pays off, because it is additional protection, it is an additional opportunity to work well.
Well, I personally know people who are in this field, they worked simply with Firefox.
Speaker 1:
And do you somehow configure, say, a virtual machine separately?
Carder:
Well, here it is all configured in LinkedSphere, it is such an additional, well, let's say, browser, in essence. It is all configured. There is absolutely no point in working with a virtual machine. And why? Although it is possible. Because it does not give you any advantage. You just need to fuck up really badly.
Speaker 1:
Okay, interesting.
Carder:
Well, I'll tell you another interesting story, a little hypothetically. The Saxons, they fly off periodically, right? That is, you need to keep an eye on this, because we had one story. We lived with friends, the three of us were engaged in the same topic. We just beat around the clock and drank. Had a good time, so to speak. And one day a buddy was just entering, his sock flew off, and he, it turns out, entered his IP, his data, and he got really hooked on panic then, that's what I want to say.
But in general, there is a golden rule in carding - don't beat more than a thousand bucks on one sock. You just change the sock later, and it's like you're a different person.
Speaker 1:
And how did your friend, yeah, get rid of these mental problems later?
Carder:
Buddy, how did he get rid of them, my friend was really into panic then, he took his SSDs, went at night to drown them in the river, I don't know where he got stuck, you can just give away one crystal there, but the guy panicked really badly, it was funny, but nothing happened to him for it, so far, because he didn't leave the country, in general, in general, you can understand that you are from the police, somewhere, when you leave the country, because you are for these scammers, and you are the name of an international scammer, they give 20 years for it, you will be caught at the border, if there is a specific request for you. It's
very difficult to get your hands on it. And so you understand, no one is going to spend resources to find a person who stole a thousand bucks. It’s just not profitable from a financial point of view. Because it costs a lot more.
Speaker 2:
So catching them costs a lot more, right?
Carder:
A lot more, yes.
Speaker 2:
So it makes sense not to steal a lot.
Carder:
Yes, I had an interesting story. A friend of mine, he lived in Poland, I don’t know, but it was really funny. Those were the old days of carding, when the anti-fraud system was really shitty. He got himself gold roller skates for 50 thousand through a stick. He lived in a dorm at the time, they came to him, it turns out, they took the guy’s room, but he quickly ran away.
But it was really funny, because, well, it’s really stupid.
Speaker 2:
Well, there was one such case. I can tell you the story from what, well, I was told that there was one friend, let's say, an acquaintance of a friend, who went to Prague, he was offered a job there, because he was an intermediary, he would run around the vankomats and cash physical cards. Accordingly, they identified him through the cells, although I do not understand how he could protect himself in this situation, although, in fact, all this can be tracked.
Accordingly, now he is sitting in prison in Prague, he was put in jail for two years, somewhere he found a phone and he tells the story of how he is sitting in prison and how they are just sitting bored with their buddies in the cell, that is, everything is apparently so smooth for them there that they can even go online.
Speaker 1:
It seems that some rapper from America also recently conducted a live broadcast showing how they record tracks there, supposedly in prison.
Speaker 2:
I went to prison to record a track purely about prison, so as to fully immerse myself in that atmosphere.
Carder:
An interesting story, also a small digression, a guy with whom, well, in general, the karting community as a whole, they all work on Telegram channels, communicate closely, networking in this case helps a lot, someone knows something, someone has some good access to some material, that is, it's really cool. We had a guy in the community who got himself across the border, he did it with the help of a kit, he assembled his car piece by piece, that is, he took it, killed the door, climbed over, assembled everything from him to the end, but it was very funny.
At the moment, the guys laughed a lot about it.
Speaker 1:
Well, at least it's safe, let's say. I wonder, did he order one wheel at a time or all four wheels at once?
Carder:
Well, that's the question that interested me too.
Speaker 1:
The next question, we touched on the fact that you work from some country, we will not, of course, ask from which country you work, but in general, a question concerning geolocations, in your opinion, where are the most naive Internet users, in what geolocation are they located?
Carder:
Americans, Indians are super rich, they have money, they do not monitor them. Yes, they can be scammed very well. In the CIS, well, only fools work, because in the CIS it is very easy to get to you, there you can catch even for any little thing. And thirdly, only crazy people work in the CIS, everyone works in foreign directions, I would not say that you can single out someone in particular, there, who is the stupidest, yes.
In any case, you are screwing the same system. That is, you are trying to deceive antifraud, you are not a person, you are deceiving.
Speaker 2:
I would probably also continue the question and ask if there were any cases when you noticed that, for example, the CIS market and the European market are somehow different in how we can, in principle, try to scam someone, that is, or use the same user agent in order to be able to hack a card in order to enter funds.
Carder:
Well, look, I'll say it again, I've never worked in the CIS, I can't say.
Speaker 2:
Probably, I did the right thing, because, yes, here in this regard, and getting caught, probably, well, like, won't be a problem in this regard.
Carder:
In this regard, I'll tell you this, whoever worked in the CIS, he was closed within a week.
Speaker 2:
Well, that's it, in principle...
Carder:
It doesn't matter what you use, how you try.
Speaker 2:
As was to be proved, most likely, that, in principle, the banking systems in the CIS countries are pretty well savvy.
Carder:
Well, look, I want to tell you this, the main problem is, I wouldn’t say it’s the banking system, the main problem is that it’s much easier to reach out to the SMG region. It’s just cheaper to get to you.
Speaker 2:
Well, as for the budget, I would say it’s not that big to look for these violators, so to speak.
Speaker 1:
But also, as I understand it, from the perspective of law enforcement agencies it looks like the person is deceiving his fellow citizens. That is, it’s even worse, in essence, you kind of shit where you live.
Carder:
Where you eat.
Speaker 1:
Yes. Ernes, please tell me, did you have any interesting locations? You know, unusual ones, like Switzerland, for example, or some Zimbabwe, or some islands.
Carder:
Well, look, when I worked on cashing out, I specifically did cashing out, all my drops were from Kenya. That is, all the money in Kenya was lost, because
the police there and in general absolutely don't give a shit. There, that is, even a card, so you understand. Well, or there you can specifically register an account with a PayPal SIM card. And you can have as many SIM cards there as you like. There a guy sent me some interesting videos, there are just 100 SIM cards lying on the table. He pushes them back and forth, changes their account.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, okay, fine, then let's move on. So, we discussed, in principle, how the process of, probably, carding happens. What are the nuances, where, in principle, probably, by geolocation, there are the most pleasant clients. But there is one more question about that. Can you tell us where you get, in principle, the material you work with? And, well, through collaboration with other people, you get, let's say, for a certain amount of money, some information that you need to work with.
How much does such information cost and well, that is, where you are in the Darknet, in principle, you can, here is anyone, where he can go, look and buy, for example, this information himself.
Speaker 1:
Or maybe even in the Clearnet, yes.
Carder:
In general, in fact, all this information, it, it can be purchased in different ways, you can just ban it in Telegram. Tsshka costs one or two bucks, well, depending on the quality too, because in fact someone, well, sells it for a higher price, someone for a lower price, it depends on the quality, it depends on the percentage, it turns out, of success, that is, bio. Some shops sell it for a higher price, some for a lower price. Platforms, websites, well, I will not name websites, because I still don’t want to.
In fact, despite the fact that I was involved in this, I don’t want most people to get into this topic either. This topic is just for fun. Someone does this professionally, I don’t recommend it. There are many interesting topics that will legally give you more growth and more profit.
Speaker 2:
Recently, I think it was a year ago or something, they leaked the Yandex.Taxi user database, I think, yes, in the CIS. And, in principle, there is information, well, not only on trips, but also information about what the user orders in Yandex.Food, yes, that is, how he eats, to what addresses some deliveries come.
That is, in essence, now, if this database is leaked, you can essentially track these people by the addresses where these deliveries come and how the waterer goes, how safe is it now in principle to water with these services, when everything is on the Internet, in essence you can get it, if you go to the Darknet and you can dig up the entire route for any person, like Navalny had an investigation, like he does an investigation, where he sees how people travel on planes, where deliveries come, how they take taxis, what they eat, when they eat, in essence
everything can be revealed, how to protect yourself, in essence, in this situation.
Carder:
There is no way to protect yourself, I'll tell you this, well, do not use the services.
Speaker 2:
Well, guys, I'm deleting everything, like, leaving the Internet.
Speaker 1:
And going offline. And you know, now such a girl, okay, now I'll look, Who does my Vanyusha order sushi from in the evenings? And why don't they get to us?
Carder:
In fact, I can say that even food is entered. That is, there was a time when I just lived like this, ordered everything I wanted, specifically for entered material. You can go by taxi to an entered account, entered material. That is, in general, well, by taxi, for example, it is more or less safe. There are now services in large quantities, in wide access, which you get for a big discount, that is, naturally, it is clear where it comes from.
This is a big discount, they can order food, plus it turns out to order a taxi or something else.
Speaker 1:
But look, you said that you can buy some information or some card for $1-5, depending on how cool this card is. And why can't the person who sells you this information process it himself?
Carder:
Well, because it takes a lot of time, it's easier for him, you know, he has a huge amount of entry information, that is, it's easier for him to dump a database of 8,000 cards for about 5 bucks, rather than sitting and processing it all himself.
Speaker 2:
It's like there is a supplier, like there is a supplier of goods, yes, and there are the stores themselves, which in principle already sell some goods, here, in essence, the same story, that everyone is already focusing on what they can do best and then simply passing it on step by step.
Carder:
In fact, if, well, like, I've seen this myself, and this exists, it's a popular practice, for a percentage, your person simply processes some material. For a percentage.
Speaker 1:
And how do you conduct transactions safely on the Darknet?
Carder:
Safe transactions? Well, it depends on what you mean, what kind of transaction.
Speaker 1:
Well, let's say you need to buy some material. How can you buy it safely and understand that, let's say, the person, he's not a scammer, yes, you'll send him $500 there, and he won't just walk away with this money?
Carder:
If you have trust issues, well, that is, you're acquiring someone, you don't know someone, although usually just the most popular shops, well, they are trusted, because there's no point in them screwing you. It turns out, well, you do it through grants, from grant services, which provide you with confidence that everything will happen as it should, yes.
Speaker 1:
Do they take a percentage for this?
Carder:
Yes, yes, they take a percentage.
Speaker 1:
Listen, can you tell me what your most profitable carding operation was and how you felt after, say, you hit the jackpot?
Carder:
Again, I will say that it is advisable not to hit very large sums, because this can lead to a big risk.
My most profitable operations were in cash out, that is, in carding, specifically in stuff carding, I did not do much that was profitable for myself. That is, I fought there, when necessary. I had friends who, for example, in stuff carding, they ordered the most liquid goods there or sold them even from us.
Speaker 1:
Like MacBooks, for example.
Carder:
No, the most liquid goods are some parts, SSDs.
Speaker 1:
Well, in small things, essentially, yes. A phone.
Carder:
iPhones are also quickly sold out, especially if you put an iPhone, for example, minus 20% on some ordinary marketplace, then it is very quickly taken away from you, that is, such goods.
Speaker 1:
What do you think, is carding dying?
Carder:
It has been quite a long time here. Carding is not dying. The approach to carding is changing. And perhaps, what I think is good, in fact, the threshold for entering the topic of carding from scratch, it is increasing. That is, now it is more difficult for a beginner to master it, I would say, than before. The approach is changing, the anti-fraud system is also changing, it does not stand still. But I want to tell you that everything rests on the fact that when you increase security, you lower the user experience.
It becomes more difficult for a person to use your service. Therefore, due to the fact that this balance is always there and will be present, carling does not know how.
Speaker 2:
That is true, by the way, yes. Good point about user experience, because people don't want to set up two-factor authentication, yes, themselves. They are offered it as an additional option, yes, because you need to download something, enter some data every time you log in, you need to read some code, press, confirm and it's all so painful, in general, yes, that is, in essence, there is a balance here, in essence, society also reacts to this in such a way that some security methods are still not used in this regard.
Okay, that's it, then let's move on to the next section, no less interesting, let's talk about cashing out money, let's go. So, and the next question, Ernest, can you tell us about the most common methods of cashing out at the moment, in 2025.
Cashing out
Carder:
The most common method, depending, again, on what material we are talking about, well, cashing out through drops. Cashing out, well, is cashing out money from the victim's account. That is, if there is an account, there, either a bank account, or an account of some payment system, yes, That is, this is a way to withdraw money from there clean and get it for yourself.
This is essentially what cashing out is.
Speaker 1:
That is, to take cash from some information that you provide...
Carder:
Well, to receive. Yes, to receive. To receive, yes. To give. Money from the account.
Speaker 2:
Essentially, returning a check is also, essentially, cashing out, right? For example, a check for some product there, well, in terms of the product itself.
Carder:
Yes-yes-yes. Absolutely right. I was involved, I had my own, it turns out, channel, my own group on cashing out, people contacted me, I cashed out Paypal. That is, in cashing out, there, working with bank accounts, for example, the same thing, I don't really understand how you do it. Regarding, for example, Paypal, I can’t tell you everything here because I’ve dealt with it.
It turns out that I was absolutely safe here, because I did not participate specifically in the process itself. I had drops, I had connections of people who, in fact, could accept money. And people came to me who wanted to send this money. So, my drops were from Kenya, so, they accepted money and sent it in bulk. And I paid the person back, it turns out, his percentage.
The percentage varies. Usually, how we worked, I received 10%, the drop received 40%, the client received 50%.
Speaker 1:
And did you have some kind of the most sophisticated way of cashing out? Some kind of, you know, like, op, not so standard, not so ordinary, yes, like everyone uses.
Carder:
I had experience related to crypto, it was quite unusual, there you had to cash out a crypto account. It was easier there, because crypto, it is anonymous, it can be, in fact, well, like, semi-anonymous, let's say. It can be cashed out quite simply, quite easily. That is, in essence, you just need to transfer it through some wallet, or through, not a wallet, or through some platform, site.
Yes, through a mixer, and just on yourself, to an account, and that's it.
Speaker 1:
And how dangerous is it to do this and was there a case when you could have been caught just a little?
Carder:
I haven't, but there were cases, I know myself, when bees were taken. But this is again because they neglected security.
Speaker 1:
And what happens to the safety of the life of the drop, who, for example, directly withdraws money in Kenya?
Carder:
My drops live very well in Kenya, the cops don't give a damn there, they hardly do anything about it, I have a drop truck that accepted the money, it turns out he accepted it for himself and he, well, he was able to build himself a house there in Kenya, ride around in a cool car, that is, we had such a trusting relationship, he sent me videos there and all that. And well, it just looks really interesting, everyone there essentially lives in these Khrushchev-era buildings, and he has some kind of covered granny there, well, he looks cool.
Speaker 2:
A policeman in Kenya is like, oh, are you like withdrawing money, cashing it out? Oh, well then, we won't bother you, you do your thing, we'll move on, yeah, everything's fine there, everything's good.
Speaker 1:
It seems to me that they don't even know what cashing out is.
Carder:
I don't know how they, like, didn't cover it up at that time. The dropper, well, that's just one connection that I'm turning to. He has his own, it turns out, some drops there, to whom he maybe also pays some percentage for accepting funds there. Well, but, yes, in general, he's just a person that I turned to for this, to cash out the money.
Speaker 2:
Can you tell us about the cashing out area in general, what was your most profitable situation, when you hit a gold mine and managed to get rich really cool?
Carder:
In general, in terms of cashing out, I want to say that when you cash out PayPal, there is some time until the money goes back and forth, that is, there is some delay. Well, in general, you need to understand that sometimes, for example, a person can get the same security check on his account, that is, he needs to be subject to the account, that is, the money could not be sent. It happens, if anything, here is such an interesting thing, PayPal sometimes drops the fraud system, that is, it just crashes, and a real gold rush begins.
A huge number of people immediately start writing to you, and at that moment you are just like a squirrel in a wheel, it drops there for an hour, maybe two, and you just beat them like crazy, sit, punch, send money. I had moments, if I say so, I always worked on cashing out very honestly. Naturally, you have money in your crypto wallet, you can essentially take it for yourself, without paying anyone anything and that's it.
But I always worked honestly, because, well, that's the kind of person I am, I behaved honestly with all the scammers, let's say. There was a situation when I had a large amount of money in my crypto wallet, and the anti-fraud system just crashed. I had fifty in my crypto wallet, I could just take it for myself, without paying anyone anything, come up with something. So, I paid everyone in general, so I think it was the right decision, that's it.
But yes, there were situations when, for example, it turned out there in a day, there, to make two pieces, three, just to cash out passively. So that you understand, I received 10% of the cash out, that is, you understand how much money there is.
Speaker 1:
So, your biggest income was 50 thousand at a time, you had it in your wallet?
Carder:
I had about 50 thousand at a time in my wallet, but overall, I just looked for fun, I had a very large amount of money going through my crypto wallet. About 300 thousand in a flash, 400 something or other.
Speaker 2:
A solid amount. Well, look, now you need to make sure that everything is in order with your security, because in this situation you need to try so that they don’t start looking for you and try to hack each other in this situation.
Internet scam
Speaker 1:
Let's move on to the next topic about scams. Let's go! Ernest, can you tell us about the scam methods you used, what are your favorite scam methods, what did you make the most money on? And what is relevant in 2025?
Carder:
In 2025, I would say, it is relevant to do hippie-penny, look for a normal job. But regarding scam, I can say so, I really did this topic most of the time. The direction was foreign, foreign, again, but for me in general with my skills it is very easy to work with foreign people. And in general it is safer, simply. Regarding scam, in general there are many approaches, it will always live, it will always be alive, as long as there are mammoths, and mammoths will not die out, as they say, there will always be scam.
For example, what direction is widespread now? Who the hell knows who does what. Everyone knows how he wants. Well, I saw on Avito, there, socially and professionally, for example. For example, it is very interesting if you listen to the tracks of Coris Kylie Milan, you can understand for yourself who you can deceive. Although, in fact, he does a little nonsense, not very profitable, let's say, childish, I would say.
I was specifically involved with... For example, here's what I was doing, I introduced myself as some girl, took a donor. There was a time when I paid girls to send me some materials. I essentially overscaled the price of this material. I communicated on behalf of the girl, said what was needed, usually they wrote, we called them Mahmuds, various Turks wrote, someone else.
They wanted the girl to come to them, say, to have a good time, or to get to know each other. And then suddenly it turns out that you need a visa in order to come. And you need to pay off some debt from your studies, from university, so that you can come. So, in this way they simply sent money, yes. They usually sent it through the Western Union payment system. That is, well, either Western Union or MoneyGram.
Someone, I had a really cool guy, who literally sent me 15,700 bucks in crypto in about 20 minutes. There, with ether. Well, he was doing ultimatum, and there, essentially, I sexted him a little, and the guy sent me some money. Good money. But usually it happened through some Westik, Western Union. That is, at first, initially, I also took it, paid a certain percentage, there, to the girls, so that they would come and withdraw this money.
Then, after some time, I just looked at the whole deal a little, I started withdrawing just for myself, so as not to pay extra. And I want to tell you, I had absolutely no problems at all. The system is so safe.
Speaker 2:
And here's a question about scams. Yes, that is, you say, like, there were different cases, well, scams. And were there cases when you, there, scammed grannies, like, usually, well, do we have?
Speaker 1:
No, no.
Speaker 2:
My girlfriend, you know, often says that her grandmother tells stories about how someone writes to her, calls her, and introduces themselves as bank employees. I wonder if it's one of your friends who's calling my girlfriend's grandmother or what? Who should I go to sort this out?
Speaker 1:
Let's figure it out, let's figure it out.
Carder:
I think that these are generally colleagues who work in offices in Dnipro somewhere. Or in fact, well, or some kind of prisoners, that is, they work in prisons. I have never done anything like that. Well, for me it is unpleasant.
Speaker 2:
They, in fact, use phone forwarding, as I understand it, right? If they are sitting somewhere in another country, they buy a local electronic SIM card there and somehow do a forwarding.
Speaker 1:
So that it is as if some white number is calling, because.
Speaker 2:
That now there are services that, in fact, allow you to watch incoming calls, and there are systems that identify how safe this call is and how, like, this number has not already been exposed somewhere through negative experience, let's say.
Carder:
Well, yes, just buys himself either a phone or through a subscription to an IP phone, this can also be done. These guys, I would say, are doing something very nasty, it's very far from me. Taking the last money, especially from the elderly. There are ways to take not the last money and get more from guys who will not suffer from this, from young, let's say, wankers.
In general, how I felt when I worked on a scam, well, a guy wants to pay, especially from Turkey, there are so many such stories, he wants to pay a girl to fuck her, and who knows what kind of security she will have there. I just take his money for myself, next time I'll think about it. That is, in fact, I have never done anything on a scam that would personally put a lot of moral pressure on me, because I also ultimately need to go to bed, somehow live life and understand what I was doing in the past.
Therefore, I found such a Moldovan, I would say, way of getting a good income, but without any serious problems. I had a story, it turns out I scammed one guy for crypto too, that's it. But there I didn't want to scam him in the main way for a visa or for purchasing something else. I just saw how he communicated, I checked him out, all the information, found out who he was, where he worked.
He worked in a good IT company. And I told him, buddy, you sent me your dickpics, that's how you communicated with me, I'll pass on all this info if you don't pay me this amount. And the guy, well, in fact, it was already extortion. The guy paid me 500 bucks once, he paid 500 bucks a second time, then I saw that he was starting to have problems, I told him, that's it, I'm deleting your info, all this, all these screenshots, I won't take anything from you anymore.
And indeed, he never wrote again, I just deleted all the info from him right away, and the guy went on about his business, and the most important thing is that in the end he even thanked me and believed me. Damn, I realized that if I entered it incorrectly, thank you for not doing anything to me anymore, and that's it.
Speaker 2:
A small question, to dilute it a little. You said that you communicated with girls, right? Basically, those who sold themselves as part of transfers from Turkey and there were some others. Nuances. Do you consider yourself a scam pimp in this situation? When you were essentially an intermediary, yes, that is, for the girls and for the one who wanted to pay. What do you think?
Carder:
No, the girl never came.
Speaker 1:
Well, it turns out, a scam pimp.
Carder:
The girl never came, of course. Well, I just, I would like to say so. I sold people a dream. Sold a dream, sold them a good time during communication. That's it. Nobody ever came to anyone, of course. I'll tell you this, in general, in general, about online dating, especially if you go somewhere, it's not clear to someone, but it's a very safe thing for girls, especially.
Answer accepted.
Speaker 1:
Great, okay. But about extortion, to what extent is it okay to send money when they extort this money from you, because the person may not be as kind as you, yes, and continue to ask for money for conditional silence, yes. That is, this is a story that can last forever.
Carder:
Yes, yes, this story can, of course, last forever. I want to tell you that there were guys with whom I chose the course of extortion, because they had already, so to speak, given out a lot of interesting information, yes. But there comes a certain point when a person will say no, that's it, okay, he will accept that some dirty information about him will be thrown out, or something else.
In general, for example, in America there is such a policy, never to cooperate with terrorists. Here, too, it is better to adhere to understanding. Because indeed, not all people will be like me, who do not want, roughly speaking, to do something harshly. Someone can milk a person endlessly, so in this case it is better to accept that you are in trouble, well, that's it.
Speaker 1:
Yes, and remember, never send your dick pics on the Internet.
Carder:
It is better to show them to girls in real life. That is true, that is absolutely true.
Speaker 2:
By the way, I have a question. You brought it up very well, in principle, that you think about the situation when you should probably screw someone, let's say it this way, in your own words, and sometimes you think about when you should stop and think a little about how the person, in principle, will perceive it.
Have you ever had situations where you really felt that you wanted to do something less harsh, for example, some kind of deal, yes, less, let's say, painfully for the person you're scamming, due to the fact that you have some of your own internal experiences about how the person will take it?
Carder:
I had a situation where a guy who wrote to me had a fake profile, and then I saw that the guy was 65 or 70, well, in short, an old grandfather, he wanted to find love. In general, so that you understand, of course, when I communicated with people, I also somehow connected with them on an emotional level. I see, for example, that a good person is doing cool things in life, in general, he has achieved a lot in his life.
That is, John, I have had many cases when I tell a guy, okay, like, this is a scam, like, there is no girl. Do this, do this, do this, to protect yourself here. And then, like, you'll be able to find something normally. And that's it, with these people...
Speaker 2:
Oh, excuse me, I shed a tear. Excuse me, yes-yes, I understand, I understand.
Carder:
In my work, it was easier for me, and the reason why I was able to film myself, because I never did wild black stuff. That is, I always did everything carefully, and there a person, for example, he sees that he sent me a set for 500 bucks, for 1000, I somehow withdrew this money, in general, he could try to contact, but what will he tell the cops?
I wanted to invite a chick to fuck, she didn't come to fuck me. Well, like they didn't make her a visa, well, what will the police do in this case? There is essentially no basis for drawing up this case.
Speaker 1:
But again, as we have already said, this will be a fairly expensive operation, which will cost the police much more than $500.
Carder:
There must be some basis here, that is, for example, I have never promised a person, For example, let's say, that I will do this any minute if you send me some money. And I say that this will give me the opportunity to open a visa, and all that.
Well, I personally have not used neural networks in my work, and as for my colleagues, so to speak, in the industry, you can call them, I also have not heard of anyone using it, because, if we talk about a scam, this is the most human process, this is the most social engineering, then here you really need to be a human, no neural network, so to speak, can do this yet.
Replace a person. For automation, yes, a neural network, but it is usually used to automate something. There is no processor for automation as such, specifically if we are talking about scanning, yes. Therefore, no, I did not use, and I myself do not know how, for example, the same ChatGPT could help me, but perhaps I could get some information through it faster, yes. Although, usually just literally.
Speaker 2:
Although, on the other hand, ChatGPT prohibits, just the same, well, Well, you ask it a question, and if it suspects that this question may relate to a scam, for example, yes, in order to help you deceive someone there, it will most likely try to somehow, well, like, not answer this question or answer differently than you need. Therefore, in principle, it is probably logical why now ...
Carder:
Most likely, yes. There are restrictions in the chat GPC, yes.
Speaker 1:
For example, I know of one interesting story where a neural network helped a person start dating a lot of girls. It was a pretty well-publicized story. Even on TikTok, a guy created software that he used to upload movies, film clips, like with Orlando Bloom, Jason Statham, DiCaprio, where they talk to girls. In fact, he made the neural network respond to Tinder with words like, say, James Bond, yeah, and in this way he was able to sleep with a lot of girls, which is interesting. Cool. I don’t even know how to react.
Speaker 1:
So, take note.
Speaker 2:
Well, I think…
Speaker 1:
Jason Statham, yeah, and talking to girls.
Speaker 2:
It’s like Jason Statham’s prasa. Everything on TikTok, if there's a quote, it's always been Jason Statham. Usually, as a rule. Look, we have a question, a little bit like that, to chuckle. In general, I understand perfectly well that you've had a lot of situations online where you had to scam people. Can you tell me the funniest way out of an awkward situation? In a situation where the scam failed, the prank failed.
Carder:
Well, let's say this is more related to scamming, yes, that is, regarding the funniest way out of a situation. Well, for example, I've had interesting situations in general, when a person began to understand that they were being screwed, well, and just, in fact, they kindly began to joke, and that's it. Like, there was no such thing that there... In general, I generally adhered to this thing, I didn't really scam anyone there.
I had friends... in the sense, there, they were cheating the very last ones, there was a person in some kind of complete ass, ass, yes. I had situations when my friends, I know, who were involved in kamukha, they really cheated a guy very harshly, there, for big amounts, but, in essence, there was some fucking shit going on in a person's life. I've never done anything like that, I felt kind of awkward about it. I took it like this... I took what I needed, well, the rest I didn't really... Let's say.
Speaker 2:
There was an interesting story. In the product I work in, it relates to the fact that, in essence, there are some broadcasters and in the chat, in offline chats, you can communicate with users. In essence, you send them some gifts in the form of coins, which they can then cash out. And often now on the Internet I notice that people start creating fake accounts even taking into account some neurons and then they can beg, let's say, they send you some photo, yeah, there, conditionally, and say, throw some money there, there, I don't know, there, I'll send you another photo, for example.
Although, in fact, it could be some bearded forty-year-old guy sitting there, who can simply communicate offline with a large number of people, automate this process taking into account the neural networks now, who can answer questions and already offer some material.
And thus, in fact, this is a real scheme that can work now for people who are not very savvy in this.
Carder:
Such a scheme does exist, yes. It is called, in fact, there is such a direction, it is called sexting. It is white, I am serious, it is a white direction. There are accounts and platforms like OnlyFans, where girls-models post themselves, but there is, for example, in some platforms the ability to communicate with a certain amount of donations, to communicate with the model.
And really, bearded guys sit and communicate on behalf of the model, and receive an additional percentage from the fact that the person purchased something additionally. That is, paid for the video service, uniques or something else. Yes, this is such a direction, it is called sexting.
Speaker 1:
Well, I have a question. Have any new methods appeared? Scams, carding, or cashing out. Just recently. And something, maybe, let's say, became popular because there used to be some method, yes, it was like, okay, some kind of niche, and now, let's say, it took off, became popular.
Carder:
Now everything that is new that is developing, I would say, is in the crypto direction. That is, a scam in the crypto direction, cashing out in the crypto direction, that is, a carding, the same thing, mining information specifically on the inputs to a crypto wallet and all that. Everything new is now connected with crypto. As for scams, well, as for scams, you know yourself, there are a large number of simply scam projects, like, connected with crypto, which do not carry any value there, for example, but people invest.
I would say that basically it's just general, general on crypto, everything is the latest now. I can tell you about interesting cases, quite popular ones, related to crypto, for example, on the scam theme. There was such a website, I don't know how it is used now, it's called Silk Road, that is, it was a website that was related to the sale of black goods, black services.
And there, in fact, somehow, I don't know, in fact, whether it was like this or not, they managed to hack the wallet where the main funds of this spot website were stored. And from there they withdrew, in my opinion, about 3 billion dollars in bitcoin. The person withdrew... There, in my opinion, if I'm not mistaken, the point was that there was some kind of tank on the website. That is, there was poor protection. You, as web developers, I think, understand what methods of poor protection can be, how it would be possible to get there, maybe there was just some SQL Injection, just an ordinary way, how it was possible to get it.
But what's most interesting is that this guy got busted in a really cool way. He was withdrawing this money, living well, he was Chinese, in short, he lived in America, 400 thousand bucks were stolen from him and he reported it to the cops. They started to figure out where he got all this money from. And they just
busted him because he started showing the cops his crypto wallet at a conference.
Maybe he did it emotionally.
Speaker 2:
He probably did it emotionally, because such a sum, well, really, it probably just drives people crazy that he had this sum in his wallet, and then they just took it and hid it somewhere.
Speaker 1:
No.
Speaker 1:
Well, plus, in general, it seems to me that it's psychologically hard to understand that you have a lot of money, but you can't buy anything with it, because if you, as soon as you buy something big, yes, then they'll immediately grab you by the ass.
Carder:
No, there are many ways to launder money through offshore companies, so it can be done. I want to tell you, how do you think the richest people live in Russia? Do you think it's all legal, do they get money? Of course not.
Speaker 2:
Yes, of course, these are all classic schemes, although it seems like they used to make movies about offshore companies in the 2000s, although offshore companies always work, and in this case they are absolutely safe for any person, it doesn't even matter if you live there in Russia, which is subject to sanctions, you can easily just transfer money through other services, especially since crypto is now very helpful with transfers, now everyone is actively transferring money to other countries through crypto, and this is not a problem for anyone now.
As it was before, maybe even in the 2000s, in the 90s, let's say.
Speaker 1:
But again, it is safe for those who are lubricated. If you are just an ordinary Vasya Pupkin, who suddenly got two plus apartments, and your income is 15 thousand dollars a year registered and such Vasya Pupkin goes to the cops and they will understand that something is wrong here and thus he will definitely not return this money.
Speaker 1:
Ernest, can you tell us about your so-called idol in the world of scam, cashing out or perhaps carding? Perhaps you were inspired by someone's story.
Carder:
Specifically, the idols that I have, all the big, so to speak, dark web users, in fact, they rarely use the same account, they very often change it for one reason or another. In fact, in Telegram all this is kind of set up, in Telegram everyone communicates, just quite anonymously, well, let's say, semi-anonymously. Often the account is not created with your data and in Telegram there are ways for a person, so to speak, with a strong enough desire, to delete an account. That's why a lot of people often change accounts.
That's why I don't have any idols. There are just some funny guys who got caught in a funny way, so to speak. There was a guy, I remember, I don't even remember his nickname, but maybe someone who was into carding, he knows who, I'm talking about, from Ukraine, who, in fact, was a blogger from the world of carding.
He poured it on his face, it turns out, and then it was very funny when they caught him, when he cried on the video that he was caught, and then
the next day, when he came out, he said, yeah, I don't give a shit about these cops. And so I, I think, was 15 years old, he was doing something with everyone there, he was such a funny guy. His ending is also so funny.
Speaker 2:
I also have a question on the topic, not the scam, but on the topic, in principle, of idols. I don’t know if you’ve heard about the hacker, the hacker, they say, Igor Embress. They say that she’s a Russian hacker with big tits, although, perhaps, it’s some, like, bearded guy. Yeah, well, like, there were stories, like, they hyped it up.
Speaker 2:
Well, and, that is, it’s still her, right? That is, it’s not a guy, it’s a girl?
Carder:
It’s a girl, yes.
Speaker 2:
Cool, cool.
Speaker 1:
And about idols, do you know this guy Sergey Pavlovich from the People Pro channel at all, maybe his story somehow interested you?
Carder:
Yes, I remember the video, when it first came out, I was still actively involved in this topic, and our community was actively discussing the video that he released. I would venture to assume that he, let's say, most likely stopped doing this topic, but he still has some kind of connections, connections.
Now, I think, there is no point for him to do this, well, my personal opinion, because he already has quite a good experience about the consequences, and this information that I said, what he said in his video, specifically, I noticed that it is very outdated, that is, I can assume that he has not been doing this for a long time, but it seems to me that you never completely leave this topic.
You, if you know about it, you somehow always remain about it, you know that it exists, you know that you have some kind of backup, that Datkin Mutin.
Speaker 1:
So, in short, a carder is forever?
Carder:
Well, you can say this as a smoker, that is, if you know how good it is, if you know what good is, how quickly they got the money. Well, of course, you will never leave it. But personally, my experience, for example, I completely jumped off the black topic. I was just tired of it. I want to develop as a person, as a human being in some direction that will create some normal experience for me, to live honestly and work honestly.
Because in fact, if you are a good specialist in your field, you will receive good money anyway. You do not necessarily have to do something dirty. Moreover, the consequences can be serious, and this will affect your future, so you do not necessarily have to wait until it.
Final
Speaker 2:
It was a cool conversation on the topic of Internet fraud. Thank you Ernest for telling us some pretty cool tips on what to do, what not to do, and, in principle, it is clear that it is still unprofitable to engage in dark topics if you want to wake up calmly in the morning, without thinking about what you lost somewhere, logged in under the wrong IP or something else. If you liked this topic, then you can share some interesting topics and we can invite Ernest to chat again. Thank you all, bye everyone.
Explanation of words (slang) used in this interview:
Mixer is an anonymization service that significantly complicates tracking transactions in the system.
Drop is a person participating in fraudulent schemes, acting as an intermediary for the transfer or cashing of funds of dubious origin.
Dropovod (drop service) is a coordinator who manages drops that are engaged in cashing money of dubious origin.
Mammoth is a gullible person susceptible to deception.
Contents:
- Introduction
- Carding
- Cashing out
- Internet scam
- The final
Introduction
Carder:
As long as there are mammoths, and mammoths will not die out, as they say, there will always be scam.
Speaker 2:
And I thought that I just got a dildo. That's where you send them, right? Carding is going to die any minute.
Carder:
You sent me your dickpics, that's how you communicated with me, I'll pass on all this info.
Speaker 1:
You can sit down for quite a long time. Yo-yo-yo, with you OG Dark, web-talk, hello everyone. Today we have a rather unusual episode, we will tell you, show you, slightly lift the curtain of secrecy of the black dark web, yes, so join us, listen to us and let's go! Ernest, can you please tell us a little about yourself, who you are, what did you do in the dark theme?
Carder:
My name is Ernest, let's say I was involved in dark-themed scanning, cashing out and carding.
Well, I never considered it as my main source of income. For me it was always a hustle, that is, to earn a little money to have a cutlet, to provide for my needs, interests, but in general I never considered it as my main source of income, I always planned to switch to something else at some point in time.
Speaker 1:
Did you have a moment when you realized that you were crossing the line of the law and you felt somehow unpleasant about it?
Carder:
Absolutely not, I understood that the actions that I do, in fact, if we are talking about carding, if If we are talking about cashing out, the end-user does not suffer from them, that is, in fact, the person from whom I, it turns out, deprive of funds, he actually gets them back. That is, everything I did was cheat the system, the same PayPal, or if we are talking about stuff carding, there, Amazon shops, eBay, it was all reimbursed. That is, it has never happened that a person's money was stolen and it was not returned to him, so it made absolutely no difference to me.
Moreover, such an interesting fact, all shops, well, not all, let's say, but the largest ones, they always had a budget for exactly the lost, like, stolen funds.
Speaker 1:
And are you sure that people got these funds back, or do you just think that ...
Carder:
It is easier for me to think so.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, okay.
Carder:
But I know for sure that when we looked, checked, they really came back with them.
Speaker 2:
That is, it turns out that here in some way you are Robin Hood in the world of the dark Internet. But in modern realities, essentially.
Carder:
No, I got the money for myself and spent it only on myself, so you can't say that.
Carding
Speaker 2:
Okay, fine, then let's move on to our first section, carding, let's go. So, regarding carding, let's talk in general. Can you tell us how this carding process is structured, how it works and what variations there are?
Carder:
Carding can be different, that is, if we talk about the main areas, it is either the so-called stuff carding, that is, obtaining some goods at the expense of stolen information. Well, or the area, I would identify another, this is specifically obtaining money in some way. That is, there, on crypto, or, well, again, there is, for example, an adjacent area, that is, it is considered a substance, but not really, that is, buying gifts, for example, some of them later, for example, a virtual gift card, maybe for 50 bucks, there is something like stuffing and you just resell it to him in a 3rd party, as they say, and you get it on your balance with clean money.
Speaker 1:
Can you explain how many key people are involved in one scheme for carding, for example? That is, who are the key people and how this money goes from some customer to the site and then to you, or I would like to hear more details.
Carder:
Yes, let me tell you. In essence, in this whole scheme there is a person who obtains information, yes, that is, by, for example, some, well, I don’t know, for example, now there are a lot of people who go, well, there have always been, go to a website and download some programs from unreliable sources. And there, SHIK, in fact, is just a tool that takes all this data from the victim’s computer.
Moreover, there are often programs that, at a minimum, can specify even several devices. But the point is that there is simply a person who obtains this information. That is, material, we call it obscene. It turns out that the one who obtained the obscene material, he transfers this obscene material, sells it. And there, so to speak, spills are made there. It is interesting that, for example, this material, naturally, is suitable for some purposes.
Someone, for example, uses PayPal and IBM. For a person who is interested in working on this topic, these are the main entry points that must be there to be able to work on this. Someone, for example, works in something else. For example, even stealing Netflix accounts, or something like that. That is, all sorts of little things. That is, a specific request is made for this-this-this material that is needed. Well, and so we get it, so to speak.
And on this material as a whole, work continues. That is, if it is some, there, Amazon, Ebay, then it turns out, this material is lookup through specifically for stuff carding. That is, ordering some goods. There is already a drop there, that is, a drop is an intermediary who takes these goods, well, and in general he simply transfers them to you through some kind of secure channel, that is, in fact, you already receive a clean product.
Speaker 2:
I have an intermediate question, yes, that is, you say, in principle, now carding in the modern world looks like this, that basically these are some kind of gift cards or electronic cards, which can all be obtained essentially remotely, yes, that is, you have already stopped working with physical cards, as it was, for example, before?
Carder:
No, we also work with physical cards, that is, this is also a type of material, yes, I just talked specifically about logs, logs are information that you virtually get there from cookies, from the browser, with all this, that is, with the help of which you can log into the user's account there in PayPal, or in a store, in some shop, people often link their card, their payment information specifically as their account.
That is, when you are already in this account, you can, in fact, make some purchase with someone else's payment information linked. But, of course, yes, the CCs are still working on the CCs, well, they are still beating them. They are beating them, well, that means they are working on them.
Speaker 1:
Therefore, dear friends, try to link virtual cards to your sites where you pay for something, preferably ones that do not have access to your main income, for example, your salary, and set spending limits there, so that fraudsters cannot use even stolen information against you.
Speaker 2:
Here we are now sitting, here we are now sitting, talking, and at this time our cards, money is being written off, gradually in small transactions, that this is a distraction in order to communicate and so that we are simply cashed in fact.
Carder:
Actually, really, even when we worked in my practice, we had a little joke, when we processed some amount of information, material, that is, you go into an account, for example, you see that, well, either a bank account or something else, you see that there are 5 thousand bucks, for example, on Balat, you can’t immediately drain them, the anti-fraud system won’t let you do it, you need to warm up these accounts first. But we usually, if there’s some kind of shop there, and we warmed them up, we took some random address of someone and there.
We had this topic, they ordered dildos, they cost 10 bucks there, you warm up the account for three days, then it lets you do normal things, make a purchase. And I was thinking,
Speaker 2:
I recently received a dildos the other day, like a parcel, where do you send them, right? From where, yes.
Speaker 1:
Yes, that's all clear. But I wonder if the person doesn't notice that funds are being debited from his card.
Carder:
Very often they don't notice, very often a person may be unavailable, or not actively monitoring it. In general, periodically, depending on what account, what payment information, you can turn off notifications altogether, so that none come.
Speaker 2:
Yes, in fact, we live in such a world now, subscriptions, now everyone lives on subscriptions, and you constantly receive a notification about a payment, and you may simply not notice that this is supposedly a regular transaction from some subscription, but in fact it may be a purchase there from your card of some, well, that is, items on the Internet, so that you can then somehow cash it out.
Carder:
Yes, that's right, that is, the price of these goods for warming up, it was always small and you really may not notice that it was some kind of purchase, rather than some kind of subscription. One of the reasons.
Well, in general, there are many reasons why a person may not notice this.
Speaker 1:
What carding methods did you use and has it become more difficult to do over time, since antifraud systems are getting stronger, programmers on the other side are also not standing still, they are trying to add 3D Secure, other authorization methods, for example, two-factor authentication, which has become a standard, for example, for some banking or financial applications.
Carder:
Well, look, first of all, over time, yes, it has become a little more difficult, before, sites generally gave out like the most inaccessible girls, that is, you just hit and hit, and that's it, and there are no problems. Here you need to understand an important point, of course, there, two factors and cool, cool a lot, well, so to speak, other interesting, you can, come up with protection methods, but it all comes down to the fact that it should be easy to use for an ordinary person. That is, an ordinary person, most likely, he will not enter 10 parallel in order to make some transaction, it is simply inconvenient for him.
Therefore, most likely, he will do this only after he has had a bad experience, that is, his funds have really been taken somewhere. Most people do not put all this. For ease of use, it is simply easier for them to pay, for example, let's say, with one click, one button, they use it.
Speaker 1:
And did you have any difficulties in your work, when you encountered, say, a two-factor authentication on a person's phone, right?
Carder:
And how did you overcome them? - Well, in general, it is the same with us at work, with PayPal. PayPal in general is, I would say, the most interesting
in operation, because there is a lot of it, the anti-fraud system works very well there. That is, if you analyze it, we really analyzed it, you need to configure the user agent very well so that you are let in as one of their own. What is a user agent? Well, in general, it turns out that we use programs that imitate the client's device, right?
Well, not the client, so to speak, the victim, I would say, the logs always contain information about what screen resolution, what system is used, what version of the browser is used. That is, all this information is available, if you use the right software that will fake this user agent, then you can safely log in, and the system will let you in. But, let's say, if you screwed up somewhere, even some small thing, actually, even the screen resolution is different, yes, not to mention the IP address, the login location, yes,
then it can ask you, so to speak, to jump into a security check, with what I called it, you will need to confirm with two factors that it is really you. Usually, when you work with logs, the security check says that the account needs to lie there for a while. If it lies there for some time, after that you can try to log in to it again. Very rarely did you have access to the client's phone.
But this security check can also be bypassed in different ways. It is even possible to simply change the phone number on the account. But this is also not so simple. It is better not to screw up, it is better to log in right away, quickly do everything and log out.
Speaker 2:
Okay, I think we can smoothly move on to the next question on this topic. You partially told about how you hide the possibility of tracking you, that is, you basically reproduce everything that the user does on his computer through the user agent, you do the same on your PC, you can tell, I'll probably change the question a little, what tools do you use for this, maybe these are some specific browsers, that is, which have the ability to change this user agent, VPN and so on?
Carder:
Personally, a little background, I just want to tell you so that you understand, I haven't been doing carding for about six months, because I just understand that this topic is not for me, I'm telling you what I did. Specifically, I used Soxy 9.1.1 proxy servers to mask myself, and I also used Linkin Sphere for the user agent and for work, there is such a program, a subscription to it costs $ 100 per month, That is, well, I would say that it pays off, because it is additional protection, it is an additional opportunity to work well.
Well, I personally know people who are in this field, they worked simply with Firefox.
Speaker 1:
And do you somehow configure, say, a virtual machine separately?
Carder:
Well, here it is all configured in LinkedSphere, it is such an additional, well, let's say, browser, in essence. It is all configured. There is absolutely no point in working with a virtual machine. And why? Although it is possible. Because it does not give you any advantage. You just need to fuck up really badly.
Speaker 1:
Okay, interesting.
Carder:
Well, I'll tell you another interesting story, a little hypothetically. The Saxons, they fly off periodically, right? That is, you need to keep an eye on this, because we had one story. We lived with friends, the three of us were engaged in the same topic. We just beat around the clock and drank. Had a good time, so to speak. And one day a buddy was just entering, his sock flew off, and he, it turns out, entered his IP, his data, and he got really hooked on panic then, that's what I want to say.
But in general, there is a golden rule in carding - don't beat more than a thousand bucks on one sock. You just change the sock later, and it's like you're a different person.
Speaker 1:
And how did your friend, yeah, get rid of these mental problems later?
Carder:
Buddy, how did he get rid of them, my friend was really into panic then, he took his SSDs, went at night to drown them in the river, I don't know where he got stuck, you can just give away one crystal there, but the guy panicked really badly, it was funny, but nothing happened to him for it, so far, because he didn't leave the country, in general, in general, you can understand that you are from the police, somewhere, when you leave the country, because you are for these scammers, and you are the name of an international scammer, they give 20 years for it, you will be caught at the border, if there is a specific request for you. It's
very difficult to get your hands on it. And so you understand, no one is going to spend resources to find a person who stole a thousand bucks. It’s just not profitable from a financial point of view. Because it costs a lot more.
Speaker 2:
So catching them costs a lot more, right?
Carder:
A lot more, yes.
Speaker 2:
So it makes sense not to steal a lot.
Carder:
Yes, I had an interesting story. A friend of mine, he lived in Poland, I don’t know, but it was really funny. Those were the old days of carding, when the anti-fraud system was really shitty. He got himself gold roller skates for 50 thousand through a stick. He lived in a dorm at the time, they came to him, it turns out, they took the guy’s room, but he quickly ran away.
But it was really funny, because, well, it’s really stupid.
Speaker 2:
Well, there was one such case. I can tell you the story from what, well, I was told that there was one friend, let's say, an acquaintance of a friend, who went to Prague, he was offered a job there, because he was an intermediary, he would run around the vankomats and cash physical cards. Accordingly, they identified him through the cells, although I do not understand how he could protect himself in this situation, although, in fact, all this can be tracked.
Accordingly, now he is sitting in prison in Prague, he was put in jail for two years, somewhere he found a phone and he tells the story of how he is sitting in prison and how they are just sitting bored with their buddies in the cell, that is, everything is apparently so smooth for them there that they can even go online.
Speaker 1:
It seems that some rapper from America also recently conducted a live broadcast showing how they record tracks there, supposedly in prison.
Speaker 2:
I went to prison to record a track purely about prison, so as to fully immerse myself in that atmosphere.
Carder:
An interesting story, also a small digression, a guy with whom, well, in general, the karting community as a whole, they all work on Telegram channels, communicate closely, networking in this case helps a lot, someone knows something, someone has some good access to some material, that is, it's really cool. We had a guy in the community who got himself across the border, he did it with the help of a kit, he assembled his car piece by piece, that is, he took it, killed the door, climbed over, assembled everything from him to the end, but it was very funny.
At the moment, the guys laughed a lot about it.
Speaker 1:
Well, at least it's safe, let's say. I wonder, did he order one wheel at a time or all four wheels at once?
Carder:
Well, that's the question that interested me too.
Speaker 1:
The next question, we touched on the fact that you work from some country, we will not, of course, ask from which country you work, but in general, a question concerning geolocations, in your opinion, where are the most naive Internet users, in what geolocation are they located?
Carder:
Americans, Indians are super rich, they have money, they do not monitor them. Yes, they can be scammed very well. In the CIS, well, only fools work, because in the CIS it is very easy to get to you, there you can catch even for any little thing. And thirdly, only crazy people work in the CIS, everyone works in foreign directions, I would not say that you can single out someone in particular, there, who is the stupidest, yes.
In any case, you are screwing the same system. That is, you are trying to deceive antifraud, you are not a person, you are deceiving.
Speaker 2:
I would probably also continue the question and ask if there were any cases when you noticed that, for example, the CIS market and the European market are somehow different in how we can, in principle, try to scam someone, that is, or use the same user agent in order to be able to hack a card in order to enter funds.
Carder:
Well, look, I'll say it again, I've never worked in the CIS, I can't say.
Speaker 2:
Probably, I did the right thing, because, yes, here in this regard, and getting caught, probably, well, like, won't be a problem in this regard.
Carder:
In this regard, I'll tell you this, whoever worked in the CIS, he was closed within a week.
Speaker 2:
Well, that's it, in principle...
Carder:
It doesn't matter what you use, how you try.
Speaker 2:
As was to be proved, most likely, that, in principle, the banking systems in the CIS countries are pretty well savvy.
Carder:
Well, look, I want to tell you this, the main problem is, I wouldn’t say it’s the banking system, the main problem is that it’s much easier to reach out to the SMG region. It’s just cheaper to get to you.
Speaker 2:
Well, as for the budget, I would say it’s not that big to look for these violators, so to speak.
Speaker 1:
But also, as I understand it, from the perspective of law enforcement agencies it looks like the person is deceiving his fellow citizens. That is, it’s even worse, in essence, you kind of shit where you live.
Carder:
Where you eat.
Speaker 1:
Yes. Ernes, please tell me, did you have any interesting locations? You know, unusual ones, like Switzerland, for example, or some Zimbabwe, or some islands.
Carder:
Well, look, when I worked on cashing out, I specifically did cashing out, all my drops were from Kenya. That is, all the money in Kenya was lost, because
the police there and in general absolutely don't give a shit. There, that is, even a card, so you understand. Well, or there you can specifically register an account with a PayPal SIM card. And you can have as many SIM cards there as you like. There a guy sent me some interesting videos, there are just 100 SIM cards lying on the table. He pushes them back and forth, changes their account.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, okay, fine, then let's move on. So, we discussed, in principle, how the process of, probably, carding happens. What are the nuances, where, in principle, probably, by geolocation, there are the most pleasant clients. But there is one more question about that. Can you tell us where you get, in principle, the material you work with? And, well, through collaboration with other people, you get, let's say, for a certain amount of money, some information that you need to work with.
How much does such information cost and well, that is, where you are in the Darknet, in principle, you can, here is anyone, where he can go, look and buy, for example, this information himself.
Speaker 1:
Or maybe even in the Clearnet, yes.
Carder:
In general, in fact, all this information, it, it can be purchased in different ways, you can just ban it in Telegram. Tsshka costs one or two bucks, well, depending on the quality too, because in fact someone, well, sells it for a higher price, someone for a lower price, it depends on the quality, it depends on the percentage, it turns out, of success, that is, bio. Some shops sell it for a higher price, some for a lower price. Platforms, websites, well, I will not name websites, because I still don’t want to.
In fact, despite the fact that I was involved in this, I don’t want most people to get into this topic either. This topic is just for fun. Someone does this professionally, I don’t recommend it. There are many interesting topics that will legally give you more growth and more profit.
Speaker 2:
Recently, I think it was a year ago or something, they leaked the Yandex.Taxi user database, I think, yes, in the CIS. And, in principle, there is information, well, not only on trips, but also information about what the user orders in Yandex.Food, yes, that is, how he eats, to what addresses some deliveries come.
That is, in essence, now, if this database is leaked, you can essentially track these people by the addresses where these deliveries come and how the waterer goes, how safe is it now in principle to water with these services, when everything is on the Internet, in essence you can get it, if you go to the Darknet and you can dig up the entire route for any person, like Navalny had an investigation, like he does an investigation, where he sees how people travel on planes, where deliveries come, how they take taxis, what they eat, when they eat, in essence
everything can be revealed, how to protect yourself, in essence, in this situation.
Carder:
There is no way to protect yourself, I'll tell you this, well, do not use the services.
Speaker 2:
Well, guys, I'm deleting everything, like, leaving the Internet.
Speaker 1:
And going offline. And you know, now such a girl, okay, now I'll look, Who does my Vanyusha order sushi from in the evenings? And why don't they get to us?
Carder:
In fact, I can say that even food is entered. That is, there was a time when I just lived like this, ordered everything I wanted, specifically for entered material. You can go by taxi to an entered account, entered material. That is, in general, well, by taxi, for example, it is more or less safe. There are now services in large quantities, in wide access, which you get for a big discount, that is, naturally, it is clear where it comes from.
This is a big discount, they can order food, plus it turns out to order a taxi or something else.
Speaker 1:
But look, you said that you can buy some information or some card for $1-5, depending on how cool this card is. And why can't the person who sells you this information process it himself?
Carder:
Well, because it takes a lot of time, it's easier for him, you know, he has a huge amount of entry information, that is, it's easier for him to dump a database of 8,000 cards for about 5 bucks, rather than sitting and processing it all himself.
Speaker 2:
It's like there is a supplier, like there is a supplier of goods, yes, and there are the stores themselves, which in principle already sell some goods, here, in essence, the same story, that everyone is already focusing on what they can do best and then simply passing it on step by step.
Carder:
In fact, if, well, like, I've seen this myself, and this exists, it's a popular practice, for a percentage, your person simply processes some material. For a percentage.
Speaker 1:
And how do you conduct transactions safely on the Darknet?
Carder:
Safe transactions? Well, it depends on what you mean, what kind of transaction.
Speaker 1:
Well, let's say you need to buy some material. How can you buy it safely and understand that, let's say, the person, he's not a scammer, yes, you'll send him $500 there, and he won't just walk away with this money?
Carder:
If you have trust issues, well, that is, you're acquiring someone, you don't know someone, although usually just the most popular shops, well, they are trusted, because there's no point in them screwing you. It turns out, well, you do it through grants, from grant services, which provide you with confidence that everything will happen as it should, yes.
Speaker 1:
Do they take a percentage for this?
Carder:
Yes, yes, they take a percentage.
Speaker 1:
Listen, can you tell me what your most profitable carding operation was and how you felt after, say, you hit the jackpot?
Carder:
Again, I will say that it is advisable not to hit very large sums, because this can lead to a big risk.
My most profitable operations were in cash out, that is, in carding, specifically in stuff carding, I did not do much that was profitable for myself. That is, I fought there, when necessary. I had friends who, for example, in stuff carding, they ordered the most liquid goods there or sold them even from us.
Speaker 1:
Like MacBooks, for example.
Carder:
No, the most liquid goods are some parts, SSDs.
Speaker 1:
Well, in small things, essentially, yes. A phone.
Carder:
iPhones are also quickly sold out, especially if you put an iPhone, for example, minus 20% on some ordinary marketplace, then it is very quickly taken away from you, that is, such goods.
Speaker 1:
What do you think, is carding dying?
Carder:
It has been quite a long time here. Carding is not dying. The approach to carding is changing. And perhaps, what I think is good, in fact, the threshold for entering the topic of carding from scratch, it is increasing. That is, now it is more difficult for a beginner to master it, I would say, than before. The approach is changing, the anti-fraud system is also changing, it does not stand still. But I want to tell you that everything rests on the fact that when you increase security, you lower the user experience.
It becomes more difficult for a person to use your service. Therefore, due to the fact that this balance is always there and will be present, carling does not know how.
Speaker 2:
That is true, by the way, yes. Good point about user experience, because people don't want to set up two-factor authentication, yes, themselves. They are offered it as an additional option, yes, because you need to download something, enter some data every time you log in, you need to read some code, press, confirm and it's all so painful, in general, yes, that is, in essence, there is a balance here, in essence, society also reacts to this in such a way that some security methods are still not used in this regard.
Okay, that's it, then let's move on to the next section, no less interesting, let's talk about cashing out money, let's go. So, and the next question, Ernest, can you tell us about the most common methods of cashing out at the moment, in 2025.
Cashing out
Carder:
The most common method, depending, again, on what material we are talking about, well, cashing out through drops. Cashing out, well, is cashing out money from the victim's account. That is, if there is an account, there, either a bank account, or an account of some payment system, yes, That is, this is a way to withdraw money from there clean and get it for yourself.
This is essentially what cashing out is.
Speaker 1:
That is, to take cash from some information that you provide...
Carder:
Well, to receive. Yes, to receive. To receive, yes. To give. Money from the account.
Speaker 2:
Essentially, returning a check is also, essentially, cashing out, right? For example, a check for some product there, well, in terms of the product itself.
Carder:
Yes-yes-yes. Absolutely right. I was involved, I had my own, it turns out, channel, my own group on cashing out, people contacted me, I cashed out Paypal. That is, in cashing out, there, working with bank accounts, for example, the same thing, I don't really understand how you do it. Regarding, for example, Paypal, I can’t tell you everything here because I’ve dealt with it.
It turns out that I was absolutely safe here, because I did not participate specifically in the process itself. I had drops, I had connections of people who, in fact, could accept money. And people came to me who wanted to send this money. So, my drops were from Kenya, so, they accepted money and sent it in bulk. And I paid the person back, it turns out, his percentage.
The percentage varies. Usually, how we worked, I received 10%, the drop received 40%, the client received 50%.
Speaker 1:
And did you have some kind of the most sophisticated way of cashing out? Some kind of, you know, like, op, not so standard, not so ordinary, yes, like everyone uses.
Carder:
I had experience related to crypto, it was quite unusual, there you had to cash out a crypto account. It was easier there, because crypto, it is anonymous, it can be, in fact, well, like, semi-anonymous, let's say. It can be cashed out quite simply, quite easily. That is, in essence, you just need to transfer it through some wallet, or through, not a wallet, or through some platform, site.
Yes, through a mixer, and just on yourself, to an account, and that's it.
Speaker 1:
And how dangerous is it to do this and was there a case when you could have been caught just a little?
Carder:
I haven't, but there were cases, I know myself, when bees were taken. But this is again because they neglected security.
Speaker 1:
And what happens to the safety of the life of the drop, who, for example, directly withdraws money in Kenya?
Carder:
My drops live very well in Kenya, the cops don't give a damn there, they hardly do anything about it, I have a drop truck that accepted the money, it turns out he accepted it for himself and he, well, he was able to build himself a house there in Kenya, ride around in a cool car, that is, we had such a trusting relationship, he sent me videos there and all that. And well, it just looks really interesting, everyone there essentially lives in these Khrushchev-era buildings, and he has some kind of covered granny there, well, he looks cool.
Speaker 2:
A policeman in Kenya is like, oh, are you like withdrawing money, cashing it out? Oh, well then, we won't bother you, you do your thing, we'll move on, yeah, everything's fine there, everything's good.
Speaker 1:
It seems to me that they don't even know what cashing out is.
Carder:
I don't know how they, like, didn't cover it up at that time. The dropper, well, that's just one connection that I'm turning to. He has his own, it turns out, some drops there, to whom he maybe also pays some percentage for accepting funds there. Well, but, yes, in general, he's just a person that I turned to for this, to cash out the money.
Speaker 2:
Can you tell us about the cashing out area in general, what was your most profitable situation, when you hit a gold mine and managed to get rich really cool?
Carder:
In general, in terms of cashing out, I want to say that when you cash out PayPal, there is some time until the money goes back and forth, that is, there is some delay. Well, in general, you need to understand that sometimes, for example, a person can get the same security check on his account, that is, he needs to be subject to the account, that is, the money could not be sent. It happens, if anything, here is such an interesting thing, PayPal sometimes drops the fraud system, that is, it just crashes, and a real gold rush begins.
A huge number of people immediately start writing to you, and at that moment you are just like a squirrel in a wheel, it drops there for an hour, maybe two, and you just beat them like crazy, sit, punch, send money. I had moments, if I say so, I always worked on cashing out very honestly. Naturally, you have money in your crypto wallet, you can essentially take it for yourself, without paying anyone anything and that's it.
But I always worked honestly, because, well, that's the kind of person I am, I behaved honestly with all the scammers, let's say. There was a situation when I had a large amount of money in my crypto wallet, and the anti-fraud system just crashed. I had fifty in my crypto wallet, I could just take it for myself, without paying anyone anything, come up with something. So, I paid everyone in general, so I think it was the right decision, that's it.
But yes, there were situations when, for example, it turned out there in a day, there, to make two pieces, three, just to cash out passively. So that you understand, I received 10% of the cash out, that is, you understand how much money there is.
Speaker 1:
So, your biggest income was 50 thousand at a time, you had it in your wallet?
Carder:
I had about 50 thousand at a time in my wallet, but overall, I just looked for fun, I had a very large amount of money going through my crypto wallet. About 300 thousand in a flash, 400 something or other.
Speaker 2:
A solid amount. Well, look, now you need to make sure that everything is in order with your security, because in this situation you need to try so that they don’t start looking for you and try to hack each other in this situation.
Internet scam
Speaker 1:
Let's move on to the next topic about scams. Let's go! Ernest, can you tell us about the scam methods you used, what are your favorite scam methods, what did you make the most money on? And what is relevant in 2025?
Carder:
In 2025, I would say, it is relevant to do hippie-penny, look for a normal job. But regarding scam, I can say so, I really did this topic most of the time. The direction was foreign, foreign, again, but for me in general with my skills it is very easy to work with foreign people. And in general it is safer, simply. Regarding scam, in general there are many approaches, it will always live, it will always be alive, as long as there are mammoths, and mammoths will not die out, as they say, there will always be scam.
For example, what direction is widespread now? Who the hell knows who does what. Everyone knows how he wants. Well, I saw on Avito, there, socially and professionally, for example. For example, it is very interesting if you listen to the tracks of Coris Kylie Milan, you can understand for yourself who you can deceive. Although, in fact, he does a little nonsense, not very profitable, let's say, childish, I would say.
I was specifically involved with... For example, here's what I was doing, I introduced myself as some girl, took a donor. There was a time when I paid girls to send me some materials. I essentially overscaled the price of this material. I communicated on behalf of the girl, said what was needed, usually they wrote, we called them Mahmuds, various Turks wrote, someone else.
They wanted the girl to come to them, say, to have a good time, or to get to know each other. And then suddenly it turns out that you need a visa in order to come. And you need to pay off some debt from your studies, from university, so that you can come. So, in this way they simply sent money, yes. They usually sent it through the Western Union payment system. That is, well, either Western Union or MoneyGram.
Someone, I had a really cool guy, who literally sent me 15,700 bucks in crypto in about 20 minutes. There, with ether. Well, he was doing ultimatum, and there, essentially, I sexted him a little, and the guy sent me some money. Good money. But usually it happened through some Westik, Western Union. That is, at first, initially, I also took it, paid a certain percentage, there, to the girls, so that they would come and withdraw this money.
Then, after some time, I just looked at the whole deal a little, I started withdrawing just for myself, so as not to pay extra. And I want to tell you, I had absolutely no problems at all. The system is so safe.
Speaker 2:
And here's a question about scams. Yes, that is, you say, like, there were different cases, well, scams. And were there cases when you, there, scammed grannies, like, usually, well, do we have?
Speaker 1:
No, no.
Speaker 2:
My girlfriend, you know, often says that her grandmother tells stories about how someone writes to her, calls her, and introduces themselves as bank employees. I wonder if it's one of your friends who's calling my girlfriend's grandmother or what? Who should I go to sort this out?
Speaker 1:
Let's figure it out, let's figure it out.
Carder:
I think that these are generally colleagues who work in offices in Dnipro somewhere. Or in fact, well, or some kind of prisoners, that is, they work in prisons. I have never done anything like that. Well, for me it is unpleasant.
Speaker 2:
They, in fact, use phone forwarding, as I understand it, right? If they are sitting somewhere in another country, they buy a local electronic SIM card there and somehow do a forwarding.
Speaker 1:
So that it is as if some white number is calling, because.
Speaker 2:
That now there are services that, in fact, allow you to watch incoming calls, and there are systems that identify how safe this call is and how, like, this number has not already been exposed somewhere through negative experience, let's say.
Carder:
Well, yes, just buys himself either a phone or through a subscription to an IP phone, this can also be done. These guys, I would say, are doing something very nasty, it's very far from me. Taking the last money, especially from the elderly. There are ways to take not the last money and get more from guys who will not suffer from this, from young, let's say, wankers.
In general, how I felt when I worked on a scam, well, a guy wants to pay, especially from Turkey, there are so many such stories, he wants to pay a girl to fuck her, and who knows what kind of security she will have there. I just take his money for myself, next time I'll think about it. That is, in fact, I have never done anything on a scam that would personally put a lot of moral pressure on me, because I also ultimately need to go to bed, somehow live life and understand what I was doing in the past.
Therefore, I found such a Moldovan, I would say, way of getting a good income, but without any serious problems. I had a story, it turns out I scammed one guy for crypto too, that's it. But there I didn't want to scam him in the main way for a visa or for purchasing something else. I just saw how he communicated, I checked him out, all the information, found out who he was, where he worked.
He worked in a good IT company. And I told him, buddy, you sent me your dickpics, that's how you communicated with me, I'll pass on all this info if you don't pay me this amount. And the guy, well, in fact, it was already extortion. The guy paid me 500 bucks once, he paid 500 bucks a second time, then I saw that he was starting to have problems, I told him, that's it, I'm deleting your info, all this, all these screenshots, I won't take anything from you anymore.
And indeed, he never wrote again, I just deleted all the info from him right away, and the guy went on about his business, and the most important thing is that in the end he even thanked me and believed me. Damn, I realized that if I entered it incorrectly, thank you for not doing anything to me anymore, and that's it.
Speaker 2:
A small question, to dilute it a little. You said that you communicated with girls, right? Basically, those who sold themselves as part of transfers from Turkey and there were some others. Nuances. Do you consider yourself a scam pimp in this situation? When you were essentially an intermediary, yes, that is, for the girls and for the one who wanted to pay. What do you think?
Carder:
No, the girl never came.
Speaker 1:
Well, it turns out, a scam pimp.
Carder:
The girl never came, of course. Well, I just, I would like to say so. I sold people a dream. Sold a dream, sold them a good time during communication. That's it. Nobody ever came to anyone, of course. I'll tell you this, in general, in general, about online dating, especially if you go somewhere, it's not clear to someone, but it's a very safe thing for girls, especially.
Answer accepted.
Speaker 1:
Great, okay. But about extortion, to what extent is it okay to send money when they extort this money from you, because the person may not be as kind as you, yes, and continue to ask for money for conditional silence, yes. That is, this is a story that can last forever.
Carder:
Yes, yes, this story can, of course, last forever. I want to tell you that there were guys with whom I chose the course of extortion, because they had already, so to speak, given out a lot of interesting information, yes. But there comes a certain point when a person will say no, that's it, okay, he will accept that some dirty information about him will be thrown out, or something else.
In general, for example, in America there is such a policy, never to cooperate with terrorists. Here, too, it is better to adhere to understanding. Because indeed, not all people will be like me, who do not want, roughly speaking, to do something harshly. Someone can milk a person endlessly, so in this case it is better to accept that you are in trouble, well, that's it.
Speaker 1:
Yes, and remember, never send your dick pics on the Internet.
Carder:
It is better to show them to girls in real life. That is true, that is absolutely true.
Speaker 2:
By the way, I have a question. You brought it up very well, in principle, that you think about the situation when you should probably screw someone, let's say it this way, in your own words, and sometimes you think about when you should stop and think a little about how the person, in principle, will perceive it.
Have you ever had situations where you really felt that you wanted to do something less harsh, for example, some kind of deal, yes, less, let's say, painfully for the person you're scamming, due to the fact that you have some of your own internal experiences about how the person will take it?
Carder:
I had a situation where a guy who wrote to me had a fake profile, and then I saw that the guy was 65 or 70, well, in short, an old grandfather, he wanted to find love. In general, so that you understand, of course, when I communicated with people, I also somehow connected with them on an emotional level. I see, for example, that a good person is doing cool things in life, in general, he has achieved a lot in his life.
That is, John, I have had many cases when I tell a guy, okay, like, this is a scam, like, there is no girl. Do this, do this, do this, to protect yourself here. And then, like, you'll be able to find something normally. And that's it, with these people...
Speaker 2:
Oh, excuse me, I shed a tear. Excuse me, yes-yes, I understand, I understand.
Carder:
In my work, it was easier for me, and the reason why I was able to film myself, because I never did wild black stuff. That is, I always did everything carefully, and there a person, for example, he sees that he sent me a set for 500 bucks, for 1000, I somehow withdrew this money, in general, he could try to contact, but what will he tell the cops?
I wanted to invite a chick to fuck, she didn't come to fuck me. Well, like they didn't make her a visa, well, what will the police do in this case? There is essentially no basis for drawing up this case.
Speaker 1:
But again, as we have already said, this will be a fairly expensive operation, which will cost the police much more than $500.
Carder:
There must be some basis here, that is, for example, I have never promised a person, For example, let's say, that I will do this any minute if you send me some money. And I say that this will give me the opportunity to open a visa, and all that.
Well, I personally have not used neural networks in my work, and as for my colleagues, so to speak, in the industry, you can call them, I also have not heard of anyone using it, because, if we talk about a scam, this is the most human process, this is the most social engineering, then here you really need to be a human, no neural network, so to speak, can do this yet.
Replace a person. For automation, yes, a neural network, but it is usually used to automate something. There is no processor for automation as such, specifically if we are talking about scanning, yes. Therefore, no, I did not use, and I myself do not know how, for example, the same ChatGPT could help me, but perhaps I could get some information through it faster, yes. Although, usually just literally.
Speaker 2:
Although, on the other hand, ChatGPT prohibits, just the same, well, Well, you ask it a question, and if it suspects that this question may relate to a scam, for example, yes, in order to help you deceive someone there, it will most likely try to somehow, well, like, not answer this question or answer differently than you need. Therefore, in principle, it is probably logical why now ...
Carder:
Most likely, yes. There are restrictions in the chat GPC, yes.
Speaker 1:
For example, I know of one interesting story where a neural network helped a person start dating a lot of girls. It was a pretty well-publicized story. Even on TikTok, a guy created software that he used to upload movies, film clips, like with Orlando Bloom, Jason Statham, DiCaprio, where they talk to girls. In fact, he made the neural network respond to Tinder with words like, say, James Bond, yeah, and in this way he was able to sleep with a lot of girls, which is interesting. Cool. I don’t even know how to react.
Speaker 1:
So, take note.
Speaker 2:
Well, I think…
Speaker 1:
Jason Statham, yeah, and talking to girls.
Speaker 2:
It’s like Jason Statham’s prasa. Everything on TikTok, if there's a quote, it's always been Jason Statham. Usually, as a rule. Look, we have a question, a little bit like that, to chuckle. In general, I understand perfectly well that you've had a lot of situations online where you had to scam people. Can you tell me the funniest way out of an awkward situation? In a situation where the scam failed, the prank failed.
Carder:
Well, let's say this is more related to scamming, yes, that is, regarding the funniest way out of a situation. Well, for example, I've had interesting situations in general, when a person began to understand that they were being screwed, well, and just, in fact, they kindly began to joke, and that's it. Like, there was no such thing that there... In general, I generally adhered to this thing, I didn't really scam anyone there.
I had friends... in the sense, there, they were cheating the very last ones, there was a person in some kind of complete ass, ass, yes. I had situations when my friends, I know, who were involved in kamukha, they really cheated a guy very harshly, there, for big amounts, but, in essence, there was some fucking shit going on in a person's life. I've never done anything like that, I felt kind of awkward about it. I took it like this... I took what I needed, well, the rest I didn't really... Let's say.
Speaker 2:
There was an interesting story. In the product I work in, it relates to the fact that, in essence, there are some broadcasters and in the chat, in offline chats, you can communicate with users. In essence, you send them some gifts in the form of coins, which they can then cash out. And often now on the Internet I notice that people start creating fake accounts even taking into account some neurons and then they can beg, let's say, they send you some photo, yeah, there, conditionally, and say, throw some money there, there, I don't know, there, I'll send you another photo, for example.
Although, in fact, it could be some bearded forty-year-old guy sitting there, who can simply communicate offline with a large number of people, automate this process taking into account the neural networks now, who can answer questions and already offer some material.
And thus, in fact, this is a real scheme that can work now for people who are not very savvy in this.
Carder:
Such a scheme does exist, yes. It is called, in fact, there is such a direction, it is called sexting. It is white, I am serious, it is a white direction. There are accounts and platforms like OnlyFans, where girls-models post themselves, but there is, for example, in some platforms the ability to communicate with a certain amount of donations, to communicate with the model.
And really, bearded guys sit and communicate on behalf of the model, and receive an additional percentage from the fact that the person purchased something additionally. That is, paid for the video service, uniques or something else. Yes, this is such a direction, it is called sexting.
Speaker 1:
Well, I have a question. Have any new methods appeared? Scams, carding, or cashing out. Just recently. And something, maybe, let's say, became popular because there used to be some method, yes, it was like, okay, some kind of niche, and now, let's say, it took off, became popular.
Carder:
Now everything that is new that is developing, I would say, is in the crypto direction. That is, a scam in the crypto direction, cashing out in the crypto direction, that is, a carding, the same thing, mining information specifically on the inputs to a crypto wallet and all that. Everything new is now connected with crypto. As for scams, well, as for scams, you know yourself, there are a large number of simply scam projects, like, connected with crypto, which do not carry any value there, for example, but people invest.
I would say that basically it's just general, general on crypto, everything is the latest now. I can tell you about interesting cases, quite popular ones, related to crypto, for example, on the scam theme. There was such a website, I don't know how it is used now, it's called Silk Road, that is, it was a website that was related to the sale of black goods, black services.
And there, in fact, somehow, I don't know, in fact, whether it was like this or not, they managed to hack the wallet where the main funds of this spot website were stored. And from there they withdrew, in my opinion, about 3 billion dollars in bitcoin. The person withdrew... There, in my opinion, if I'm not mistaken, the point was that there was some kind of tank on the website. That is, there was poor protection. You, as web developers, I think, understand what methods of poor protection can be, how it would be possible to get there, maybe there was just some SQL Injection, just an ordinary way, how it was possible to get it.
But what's most interesting is that this guy got busted in a really cool way. He was withdrawing this money, living well, he was Chinese, in short, he lived in America, 400 thousand bucks were stolen from him and he reported it to the cops. They started to figure out where he got all this money from. And they just
busted him because he started showing the cops his crypto wallet at a conference.
Maybe he did it emotionally.
Speaker 2:
He probably did it emotionally, because such a sum, well, really, it probably just drives people crazy that he had this sum in his wallet, and then they just took it and hid it somewhere.
Speaker 1:
No.
Speaker 1:
Well, plus, in general, it seems to me that it's psychologically hard to understand that you have a lot of money, but you can't buy anything with it, because if you, as soon as you buy something big, yes, then they'll immediately grab you by the ass.
Carder:
No, there are many ways to launder money through offshore companies, so it can be done. I want to tell you, how do you think the richest people live in Russia? Do you think it's all legal, do they get money? Of course not.
Speaker 2:
Yes, of course, these are all classic schemes, although it seems like they used to make movies about offshore companies in the 2000s, although offshore companies always work, and in this case they are absolutely safe for any person, it doesn't even matter if you live there in Russia, which is subject to sanctions, you can easily just transfer money through other services, especially since crypto is now very helpful with transfers, now everyone is actively transferring money to other countries through crypto, and this is not a problem for anyone now.
As it was before, maybe even in the 2000s, in the 90s, let's say.
Speaker 1:
But again, it is safe for those who are lubricated. If you are just an ordinary Vasya Pupkin, who suddenly got two plus apartments, and your income is 15 thousand dollars a year registered and such Vasya Pupkin goes to the cops and they will understand that something is wrong here and thus he will definitely not return this money.
Speaker 1:
Ernest, can you tell us about your so-called idol in the world of scam, cashing out or perhaps carding? Perhaps you were inspired by someone's story.
Carder:
Specifically, the idols that I have, all the big, so to speak, dark web users, in fact, they rarely use the same account, they very often change it for one reason or another. In fact, in Telegram all this is kind of set up, in Telegram everyone communicates, just quite anonymously, well, let's say, semi-anonymously. Often the account is not created with your data and in Telegram there are ways for a person, so to speak, with a strong enough desire, to delete an account. That's why a lot of people often change accounts.
That's why I don't have any idols. There are just some funny guys who got caught in a funny way, so to speak. There was a guy, I remember, I don't even remember his nickname, but maybe someone who was into carding, he knows who, I'm talking about, from Ukraine, who, in fact, was a blogger from the world of carding.
He poured it on his face, it turns out, and then it was very funny when they caught him, when he cried on the video that he was caught, and then
the next day, when he came out, he said, yeah, I don't give a shit about these cops. And so I, I think, was 15 years old, he was doing something with everyone there, he was such a funny guy. His ending is also so funny.
Speaker 2:
I also have a question on the topic, not the scam, but on the topic, in principle, of idols. I don’t know if you’ve heard about the hacker, the hacker, they say, Igor Embress. They say that she’s a Russian hacker with big tits, although, perhaps, it’s some, like, bearded guy. Yeah, well, like, there were stories, like, they hyped it up.
Speaker 2:
Well, and, that is, it’s still her, right? That is, it’s not a guy, it’s a girl?
Carder:
It’s a girl, yes.
Speaker 2:
Cool, cool.
Speaker 1:
And about idols, do you know this guy Sergey Pavlovich from the People Pro channel at all, maybe his story somehow interested you?
Carder:
Yes, I remember the video, when it first came out, I was still actively involved in this topic, and our community was actively discussing the video that he released. I would venture to assume that he, let's say, most likely stopped doing this topic, but he still has some kind of connections, connections.
Now, I think, there is no point for him to do this, well, my personal opinion, because he already has quite a good experience about the consequences, and this information that I said, what he said in his video, specifically, I noticed that it is very outdated, that is, I can assume that he has not been doing this for a long time, but it seems to me that you never completely leave this topic.
You, if you know about it, you somehow always remain about it, you know that it exists, you know that you have some kind of backup, that Datkin Mutin.
Speaker 1:
So, in short, a carder is forever?
Carder:
Well, you can say this as a smoker, that is, if you know how good it is, if you know what good is, how quickly they got the money. Well, of course, you will never leave it. But personally, my experience, for example, I completely jumped off the black topic. I was just tired of it. I want to develop as a person, as a human being in some direction that will create some normal experience for me, to live honestly and work honestly.
Because in fact, if you are a good specialist in your field, you will receive good money anyway. You do not necessarily have to do something dirty. Moreover, the consequences can be serious, and this will affect your future, so you do not necessarily have to wait until it.
Final
Speaker 2:
It was a cool conversation on the topic of Internet fraud. Thank you Ernest for telling us some pretty cool tips on what to do, what not to do, and, in principle, it is clear that it is still unprofitable to engage in dark topics if you want to wake up calmly in the morning, without thinking about what you lost somewhere, logged in under the wrong IP or something else. If you liked this topic, then you can share some interesting topics and we can invite Ernest to chat again. Thank you all, bye everyone.
Explanation of words (slang) used in this interview:
Mixer is an anonymization service that significantly complicates tracking transactions in the system.
Drop is a person participating in fraudulent schemes, acting as an intermediary for the transfer or cashing of funds of dubious origin.
Dropovod (drop service) is a coordinator who manages drops that are engaged in cashing money of dubious origin.
Mammoth is a gullible person susceptible to deception.
Last edited:
