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How do carders hit cards now?
Sergey Pavlovich talked to a masked guest involved in carding.
How he got into carding, where do they get cards from now, what carding trends are relevant today, how the carding community has changed in recent years, whether top carders are invited to work for special services, how carding will change in the near future - this and much more in this topic.
Contents:
Introduction.
Pavlovich:
Hello, friends. New interview. Today about carding, about what I've been doing for probably half my adult life, for which I had to serve 10 years in Belarus, for which I've been wanted by Interpol since 2004, as it recently turned out. And only after, probably, a year recently, my American lawyer somehow started, this case of mine got off the ground, but in general it's a fairly profitable direction, but, let's say, very dangerous.
And don't think that you won't be caught, because it's 50/50. I would say, now maybe our guest will disagree, but in my paradigm it's 50/50. You will either be caught or not. Hello! How did you get here, in carding? And when?
How did you get into carding?
Carder:
Hello. I got into carding 4 years ago. I was interested in the direction of traffic. And then, communicating with other people, I started to process logs and got my first profit directly from the logs.
Pavlovich:
Did you get there by chance or did you want to get into this area on purpose?
Carder:
On purpose. I've always been interested in it. And then, when, let's say, I became an adult and needed to earn money in the quantities that I would like, I considered this area to be one of the most profitable, because I didn't see myself in white business, in self-employment. And this became one of the areas that feed me to this day.
Pavlovich:
Well, judging by everything, you were probably involved in traffic arbitrage before that. Because you say, traffic, that's where the logs got into.
Carder:
Initially, we just scammed in our youth. That is, we scammed around Europe, around the USA for prepayment of certain goods. We accepted money for iBans, and it all started from there. Then I became interested in traffic, and it all started, it went on increasing.
What did you do with the logs?
Pavlovich:
Well, did you pour the logs yourself, let's say, you brought in mammoths for some stealer or ratnik, or did you buy them and do something with them, cash them out?
Carder:
No, directly, when we were working on traffic, the guys who had KhVNTs contacted us. At that time, I still had no idea what it was. We started pouring traffic to their feeds, and then, when we started communicating more or less closely, the guys sent me the logs, and I started to understand what it was with, how it worked, and so on and so forth.
Pavlovich:
And where did the traffic come from? Was it Google, Facebook, did you buy it?
Carder:
Regarding the traffic, we poured in carved traffic, that is, we bought Google logs plus CC, set up an advertising campaign from them and poured it onto the landing.
Pavlovich:
And how much could you get out of one Google account, for example, how much of other people's money could you spin off?
Carder:
Approximately 200-300 dollars. We always took the volume, that is, 5-10 accounts were purchased, the same number of advertising campaigns, all this was poured into one landing.
Pavlovich:
How did you go through moderation in Google?
Carder:
By CQA. Our coder was already doing this. That is, we had an immediate task, they gave us a link to which we would pour traffic, and that's it. The coder was doing all the other tasks.
Pavlovich:
And what was on this link? That is, you pour traffic, and what, a person hooks some kind of stealer, right?
Carder:
Yes, a person hooks a stealer, logs appear on the panel. Bank logs, PayPal, shops. In particular, the guys worked on bank accounts. And all the other little things, shops, payment systems, they gave us, and we personally sat there and poked around with them, studied them.
Pavlovich:
Well, I've seen logs, I've seen them in large quantities, in general, there are a lot of interesting things there. If you get a log of some webmaster, then there are his accounts in different payment systems, naturally, all sorts of ohrevs and other things that webmasters use for their work. In general, there are a lot of interesting things, it seems like you can't understand the money from them, but you can really dig up a lot of free accounts.
Carder:
Yes, you can parse accounts, there are parsers that check these accounts for currencies and then simply give them to some marketplace where they can be sold. But we didn't do this, we were interested in something else. We studied the processing of the PayPal, hit stuff and so on. In short, you were only interested in money. Of course, they were needed at that time.
How much money is needed?
Pavlovich:
And you said that in the white business I did not see that I could earn there, well, the amount of money that I want, that I need. What amounts are you satisfied with?
Carder:
So that I could easily, for example, at that time pay rent, afford to go to a restaurant every other day, buy myself some things once a week. Working as a waiter or somewhere in delivery, the kind of work that is available to young people at 16-17 years old, I did not see myself in it and did not want to do it.
Pavlovich:
Well, if I make a quick calculation, then this is, well, it seems to me, 3-5 thousand dollars, right?
Carder:
If you mean earning money white?
Pavlovich:
No. For all these needs that you listed, 3-5 thousand dollars is quite enough.
Carder:
Yes, yes. Well, it is impossible to earn this money in a legal job somewhere as a waiter or somewhere else. That is, well, without having some kind of proper education to hold a position somewhere.
About education.
Pavlovich:
Why didn't you get an education? What prevented you from doing so?
Carder:
I got an education, but I got it because my parents wanted me to. When I was in my third year, I realized that it wasn’t for me, so I transferred to correspondence courses. I graduated from the educational institution and, probably, a few years later, when they called from there and told me to pick up my diploma, I came, picked it up, and it was just lying there gathering dust.
Pavlovich:
Well, did you at least take it to your parents?
Carder:
Of course.
Pavlovich:
You see, I realized a little earlier, I realized in my first year, probably in the first month, that it wasn’t quite for me. But, by the way, I should make a reservation, I just had to earn money. It was hard to get to the institute by 8:30, that’s the first point. Well, I’m kind of a newbie, I go to bed at 2-3, I have to be at the institute by 8:30. And the second point is, well, there was simply no money in the family. But if I had been some kind of rich kid there, then, probably, I would have studied journalism.
Everything was really cool for us. We drank at lectures. Well, in short, our own movie. Journalism is something like that. And philologists themselves were probably two fun faculties.
Guest about the first violation of the law.
Pavlovich:
The first time you broke the law and took some of someone else's log, yes, that is, some of someone else's payment details and so on, or entered someone else's card, do you remember?
Carder:
Yes, I found a channel in Telegram where AMIR was uploading a cloud of logs, and these were logs for 2018. That is, it was a terrible, well-developed work-out, where, in principle, nothing alive could have been. Well, I just sat in my free time and picked up logs and passes.
And miraculously, as funny as it may seem, the Proton resource, which has established itself as one of the most anonymous I simply entered Proton mail using my login and password and realized that I had entered the account of an arbitrageur who lives in Israel, who has white projects to which he himself pours traffic. When I looked at all this and studied it, he did not set up two-step authentication in his mail, did not attach any backup mail, I completely re-tied it to myself. And somewhere in half an hour I found his VSC, which he replenished to link to Facebook or Google, I don’t remember exactly, but there were about 500 bucks on it.
I was very happy, took my phone and entered it into my bank account with the replenishment of another card, a code came to the VSC, I confirmed it and the funds were successfully credited to the drop bank account.
Pavlovich:
And what did you feel at that moment?
Carder:
Passion is not comparable to any hobby that brings pleasure, neither fishing nor hunting. I still experience this excitement when I get some profit, and it cannot be called a hobby. Most likely, it is a lifestyle, a way of life. I realized that I cannot live without it, and probably the only place where I could see myself in legal earnings, most likely, is sales.
Because when you close a client and get some profit, when it comes to you not just like that, but with some kind of work, then it brings pleasure that cannot be compared to anything.
Pavlovich:
In short, you entered someone else's card, the transaction went through, the goods arrived, let's say, or something else, yes, and you experience this real pleasure, like from a trophy.
Carder:
Every day, every day, when I get some profit from the entered goods or from the replenished merch, this brings me colossal pleasure. It's not even about the money, it's about what you're doing.
Pavlovich:
What you do is the largest single transaction from someone else's bank details.
Carder:
The card that was one-time in your life, we poured four and a half thousand dollars into.
Pavlovich:
I remember the merch at a time was 9,600, I bought it there was an error in short in RDP for repairing the desktop I bought for 9,600 with some kind of visa signey chat, actually bottomless, I bought some kind of port scanner there, well, no, I don't remember, back in 2003, and I just remember, my largest transaction was 9,600, alone without anything at all. But 4,500 is also not bad. What carding areas are relevant in 2025?
Carder:
I will list several areas now, I have not worked in them, but personally, in my opinion, they are currently the most profitable. These are payments that were for the coronavirus, these are self-registration of credit cards in the USA. At the moment, also processing bank logs, then hit the stuff.
Well, I think these are some of the most relevant today, which work and bring good money.
Where do they get cards?
Pavlovich:
And where do you get cards now? It's just that there were all these shops, there's Joker Stash and others, but they all closed down, and now there's a problem with the cards, I guess.
Carder:
I won't disclose the specific source of the material from which I get it. This is not phishing, this is not a sniffer. Basically, the guys get mat from fish. From fish, from logs, from malware that collects card data, cardholder names, billing, and so on. Well, basically yes. These are stealers and fish.
Pavlovich:
But I also know that they simply hack some shop and hang sniffer traffic on its payment page.
Carder:
This is also a common practice.
Pavlovich:
And from your observations of the carder community, you just weren't in the crowd at the time.
Carder:
Now it's decreasing or, on the contrary, growing exponentially due to the fact that young people are entering the market and, let's say, if people used to take care of their safety and didn't advertise their illegal tools for earning money, now young people advertise it on all social networks, upload videos to TikTok about how to cash out this or that VCC, how much money they earned, how many expensive things they bought for themselves.
Naturally, people look at it, pay attention, are interested in it, and enter the market. A lot of topics are dying for this very reason, because young people are starting to cover it, a lot of people are entering, especially the clumsy ones, and fraud systems are tightening the screws, that's all.
Pavlovich:
You're talking about Chubrik, right?
Carder:
Not about Chubrik. Chubrik, as far as I know, they scam, they have scam teams. I'm specifically talking about carding, about cashing out VCC, entering stuff, registering certain companies. I'm talking about this.
About forums
Pavlovich:
In my time, we communicated, exchanged information, made acquaintances and chatted simply and usefully on carder forums. Many of them have changed, Carder.org was the first, then CarderPlanet, my forum, well, in short, there have been probably up to this day, since the beginning of the 2000s, there were probably 40-50 of them, yes, and the forums are functioning now, or carders communicate in some other, there, their communities and in other forums.
Carder:
To be honest, personally, I have never sat on forums. Personally, my opinion is that it's somehow primitive. Now the entire Dark is in Telegram, and if we draw a parallel, then, for example, those VSC cashing services that are on WWH boards, they are advertised in our Telegram channels and chats in the same way. They also buy pins, publications in channels, and everything that is on WWH, we have everything, and all communication takes place in Telegram. Almost all of Dark has gone to Telegram.
Pavlovich:
That is, on the forums already... Well, they are present, probably people, yes, out of old habit, and why are they on the forums at all then?
Carder:
They are present out of old habit, and if a deposit is required, to make some kind of thread, they open it just for the sake of it and some kind of trust, nothing more.
Pavlovich:
And these carding chats in Telegram, are there many of them? Hundreds, thousands? And how do they function?
Carder:
Well, there are probably hundreds of them, but the key chats are about 15-20. The usual mutual PR, selling ads, posting their services, selling goods. Cybercrime doesn't need any overseers.
Pavlovich:
Can you pour yourself, well, nal, yes, he can get traffic there, get logs, well, okay, he took and sold. At the moment, you can easily be merged, your dialogue can be thrown off. And how much time do you have until everything rings there that the money was stolen?
Carder:
No fraud system becomes loyal. My conscience does not gnaw at me.
How many carders are there now?
Pavlovich:
Well, when I was counting at the request of, say, Western journalists, probably only at the beginning of the channel somewhere in 2020, I took the total number of forums functioning at that time, and looked at the total number of registered participants. It is clear that I have there, you, maybe on each forum by nickname, or even more than one, yes, that is, you need to divide strongly.
But I divided, in my opinion, somewhere by six. And based on this, I counted in the 20th year that on the forums, just in our time the largest forum was 6 thousand people, on the planet there were 4 thousand people, well, that is, some miserable quantities, now in the 20th year there were about a million 200 registered members on all hacker carder boards. Well, I divided by about 6, I understood that the community is active, carder, Russian-speaking, somewhere 200-300 thousand people.
Compare with our 6k yes, but this is many times much more and in the telegram, how would you estimate from all the chats that you are a member of the total number of participants, well, as I already mentioned.
Carder:
Plus or minus 15-20 chats where participants start from 2000 to 5 10 15 maximum some chats are open access, that is, where you can just go and join, some are private where you need to submit an application, for example, to get into our chat, we conduct moderation, we look at how long the user has been registered, whether there are any common chats with him
by username, we look if he is on any blacklists and so on.
Who uses chats?
Pavlovich:
Use God's eye. I personally do not use it, but my moderators do. And who are the founders of these carding chats, that is, just some active carders or guys far from the movement, who are simply interested in some kind of advertising income?
Carder:
Basically, these are carders who work, just people who are in the subject and took responsibility for uniting, let's say, their own and their friends. That is, let's say, how it was with us, I had Traffer, Coder, guys from Europe who provided the details for receiving funds, there was also Leika. I simply united all my friends in one chat, initially it was private, then we began to partner with other chats, communicate, take a mutual break.
Well, actually, that's how it grew to 7,000 people at the moment.
About competition within the community.
Pavlovich:
Well, quite a lot. And what about conflicts within the community and competition in general? You say there are 15-20 main chats. So, are you all trying to be friends or are you trying to destroy each other?
Carder:
In general, I will speak for us, we are open to any cooperation, adequate communication, but there are such characters from neighboring countries who do not like us. And adequate communication and any kind of communication with them simply does not work out. I will say more, they have, let's call them supports, who are engaged in various provocations to denigrate the reputation of this or that resource or service.
Quite a lot of time is spent on stopping this pressure, on defiling someone, on putting other pressure on someone.
Pavlovich:
And I saw in some chats, well, maybe you are also a member of them, I, in principle, do not get along, I do not have enough time. Yes, firstly, I don’t need it, secondly, well, I don’t have enough time, because YouTube is a business, there, YouTube takes up 10% of the time for business, all sorts of things in different areas 90. But when someone tags me there or someone attacks me there, well, naturally, I go from there. And in some chats sometimes you see, well, what, and this FSB guy, well, he’s sitting there, working with them, yes, everyone knows that he’s an FSB guy, and somehow it’s like that, well, everyone treats it calmly, well, as it should be.
That is, in our times we were somehow afraid of these hidden, let’s say, employees of various special services, not only Russian, but also foreign. We weren’t afraid of the Russians at all, in principle.
Carder:
I won’t talk about topics related to Russia, I’ll give a Western example. Indeed, there are cases when office workers are present in these chats, the administration understands who they are, but they have specific interactions to promote their services. That is, how does this happen in general, how is this implementation going? Office workers open this or that service.
About operatives in chats.
Pavlovich:
You mean office workers, so that we understand figuratively, this is an operative of the special services, most likely, right?
Carder:
Yes. How does this happen? Not directly, not with their own hands, this or that service is opened that provides services, let's take figuratively, let it be breaking through the SSN and DOB full, for example. This service buys advertising in this or that chat, people start contacting them, and after that there is communication directly with them.
There are people in the chats who are far from the picture, they want to get into it and earn something, but they can't do it, and no one comes to their aid. Such characters are taken on a tick and offered earnings. What does it consist of? Directly in promoting their service and with communication with other figures from no-names to other services, administrations, chats, and so on and so forth.
Data is collected on the person of interest. Basically, there are simply dionons. A clash of groups of people, a clash of interests occurs, and if, for example, you met offline with certain people and after some time you have a conflict with them, your dion occurs, which actually simplifies the work of office workers and then they start
to take an interest in you more globally.
Pavlovich:
I am surprised to see that they still meet, now even on the contrary, since the beginning of the war and so on, somehow everyone resolves some conflicts offline, meets there, for example, Luka, remember, yes, he was probably there personally from 20, 30, 50 or even.
Carder:
Hundreds of people met, I don’t know who this person met with, I don’t take him seriously at all, he himself proclaimed himself to be what he is not, to be honest, I didn’t want to mention him and give him some kind of PR.
Pavlovich:
About dionons. Here are the deanons, as if, in general, well, so, not very good at deanonizing a person, unless, of course, he is a complete scum, because, well, the same cops as us, are watching him and, in principle, can either put him on notice or just put him in jail.
Carder:
Absolutely right, but now there are a minimum of any ethical concepts, that is, if you simply worked with a person for a certain time, have known him for several years, met him offline, and you had some kind of disagreement and a money issue, then at the current moment you can easily be dumped, your dialogue thrown off or your data given to the same office employees, and you will be like a sweet pie to them.
About forceful actions.
Pavlovich:
And about forceful actions. You say that the issue can be resolved by deanoning, for example, or in other ways. So is something like that happening now or not?
Carder:
Of course, carders get through if someone has a conflict with someone, having got through an order of sportsmen. And starting from ordinary bullying, ending with direct physical contact, there is such a practice.
Pavlovich:
Can you remember some widely known conflicts of recent years?
Carder:
I will not name names, but, let's say, some services that were engaged in cashing in the USSR, and in the same way advertised their life on social networks. This led, in general, to the fact that the person was taken out of town, all the funds that he saved were taken from him. Now he is in a lull, and no one knows what he is doing, from which Telegram account he sits.
This is what all this actually leads to.
About the influence of thieves' concepts.
Pavlovich:
And to what extent do thieves' concepts in general, yes, all these old ones, do they influence cybercriminals, and how do they interact in this area in general?
Carder:
My subjective opinion, the only intersection that can be, is, again, the clarification of some conflicts outside of online. That is, people begin to contact some local authorities and hold meetings offline. This is the only intersection of thieves' concepts and street movements.
My opinion is that cybercrime does not need any overseers and so on and so forth, since it was born without them, and in general the situation does not require their presence in any way.
Pavlovich:
Well, only to resolve some conflict situations, perhaps. Yes. Well, what do you think about it, they do gather on the Internet, there, as we know, some common funds and so on, right? It's just that when you are involved in crime, it doesn't matter whether it's offline or online, well, there is a chance of ending up behind bars. And it is presented in such a way that you warmed the camps here and there, which means you won't be forgotten. What do you think about it?
Carder:
I don't look at it from the point of view of thieves' concepts. We have several friends who ended up behind bars. And we personally pay attention to them. And we think that in general this is enough to avoid sending money to some overseers that will be spent God knows where.
Pavlovich:
So, to warm it up personally, right?
Carder:
Yes.
Have there been cases of recruitment?
Pavlovich:
And do you know of any cases? Well, I just have journalists less often now, because I don't communicate with them anymore, but they always asked if you were recruited at least once, there, into the special services and so on. That is, I say, well, such a practice, it is quite rare. Firstly, who was recruited there, you will never know, and he himself will not say. Secondly, no one has approached me at all. That is, they can probably contact me for some consulting purposes, like, tell me what this scheme looks like, because lawyers, for example, call me, help me unravel the situation.
But they haven’t directly recruited me like that. And the same Sachkov, who has now been given 14 years, unfortunately, talked about this well. They explained well that law enforcement officers, they believe that ours, that the Western ones, that if you have already stumbled once, this is such a lifestyle, you also talked about the lifestyle, that he will constantly steal, nothing will change there, he needs big money, and we there in the civil service, the FSB and so on cannot give it. And, in short, they simply do not trust. And this is probably the main reason why we and so on do not recruit you. And what do you have to say on this topic? And have there been such cases in your life or among your acquaintances?
Carder:
Among my acquaintances there have been such cases, there are proposals to provide information about government officials of certain countries, there are proposals to brute force street surveillance cameras and everything of that sort. Yes, this practice exists.
How do they approach this? You receive this offer either from some of your acquaintances, who in turn were approached by other acquaintances, that is, it does not happen directly, this offer comes, or as a task, that figuratively, a database of this or that country is needed, can you do it, is there a date, for what amount.
Or they tell you that there is a certain number of tasks from office employees, we can work together, you can sit on a percentage or some kind of salary and perform certain tasks, help and make decisions on certain issues.
Pavlovich:
But this happens with people who have not been caught, who have not been exposed. So figuratively, you can write to you there tomorrow, for example. It's just that in my paradigm, you know, this is mainly how it happened, when people have already been exposed somewhere, they are offered, probably, some kind of cooperation in order to reduce the term and so on. But these are people who are already definitely involved in crime, who have a criminal case ahead.
Carder:
This offer can come spontaneously. Have you served time, have you been exposed somewhere or not. It depends on what environment you are in and with whom you live, and how many handshakes there will be from the sender of this offer to you.
How have the events of recent years affected carding.
Pavlovich:
Well, this is how I can judge, from what you say, it is now connected with the political and military situation, yes, more? Possibly. Good. And how have the events of the last year and a half, almost two years already affected the carding community and hacking in general?
Carder:
Well, I'll give you a personal example. We worked on German material before the political situation, which is at the moment. Previously, we could enter Germany via 3DS with a top-up of the personal account of the bank. That is, now, of course, such procedures cannot be done. This is the minimum. Also the border, the import of stuff, iPhones and everything else.
Many aspects where the screws have been tightened.
Pavlovich:
So it has become more difficult?
Carder:
Of course.
Pavlovich:
But this interpersonal communication, there, carders of Ukraine figuratively, carders of Russia, that is, has it changed? Here you speak in chats, provocateurs appear and so on. Has it changed or not? Or just arbitrageurs, for example, right? Well, we were all in the same parties, there, at the same conferences and so on. Well, everyone understands everything, adults are united by one thing. Well, somehow such swearing there directly on this national military grounds I did not notice among carders that.
Carder:
There are also some people who react and treat this with understanding, there are even significant figures in carding who speak out on this topic quite aggressively, that is, in our community we try not to discuss these topics at all so that any conversation or dispute on this or that topic starts.
In other communities, they openly and aggressively express their position and insult people from other countries.
Pavlovich:
But have you personally had more or less money over the past year and a half? Well, and in general among community members.
Carder:
It has become more, because we discovered one of the payment systems that now feeds us. But in general, I think it has become very difficult, and in some areas there have probably been more problems, it has become more difficult to earn money. In principle, year after year, no fraud system becomes more loyal. It has always become more difficult year after year.
Pavlovich:
Well, plus, as you say, new people come.
Carder:
Yes.
About the attitude towards newcomers.
Pavlovich:
Well, in my time, it was somehow friendly there, you know, they were so loyal to newcomers. That is, if they didn’t ask stupid questions, everyone helped them, tried to direct them somewhere, help them with something, and later they worked with some of them. I remember there was one kid, I worked with him, he was, I think, 13 years old. Delik or whatever his name was, well, really little, 13 years old. And what is the attitude towards newcomers now?
Carder:
I’ll tell you that you caught it in the golden period, probably, when everyone was friendly and someone was giving someone some advice. Now newcomers who come in, who are looking for this or that material or manual, they will be scammed a thousand times during training, and they are not given any oxygen at all.
That is, not only that if a person simply asks about a particular issue, not only will they not answer it, they will curse him, send him away, laugh at him, and basically that's how the communication situation is now.
About training.
Pavlovich:
Various carding trainings, we see them in chats and on some forums. What do you think about them?
Carder:
I will speak for myself, personally, I have not bought a single training and generally try to at least spend money on consumables. If a person has any desire, then all the available information is present on Google and YouTube. Manuals that are sold, well, it all depends on the author of these manuals. Basically, everything that is sold is no longer quite relevant. Perhaps you can earn something from this, but not as much as, for example, before, when it was in private.
Pavlovich:
Does PayPal give anything else?
Carder:
Gives, gives little by little. Gives to make sands, guys take loans on a stick. It is mainly used now as a way to withdraw funds.
Pavlovich:
Is a loan something new? I didn’t think that you could take a loan on PayPal or something.
Carder:
In the full of a certain state, a loan is approved, which you can use on certain shops. For example, eBay. Either old accounts are purchased, old regs, or self-registrations are made for certain functions of a certain state. After which you are approved for a loan, which you can use to purchase this or that product.
Pavlovich:
So this is more of a commodity loan, right?
Carder:
Yes.
About VCC.
Pavlovich:
And tell me, how do they pour into VCC? I just saw the guys who then, it was a few years ago, hammered “Robin Hood” all, “Money Line”, I think, “Money Lion”, yes, and “Robin Hood”. I just saw the final stage, when another thing is added to your phone, well, Apple Pay worked in Russia, for example, when a Robin Hood or Money Leon card is added to your iPhone and you just go buy laptops and everything else, because there is no PIN code on the card with money.
Where did the money on this card come from?
Carder:
Are you specifically talking about VCC? Where did the money on the VCC come from? Uploading from a bank account, or there is a business in the VCC, where an invoice is issued and it is replenished from a bank account, or from VCC.
Pavlovich:
That is, from someone else's bank account, for example, just some dirty money, stolen from somewhere, is uploaded to my Robinhood, whose VCC I have now linked to my phone? Yes. That is, it turns out that my Robinhood simply acts as an account for accepting funds, and the cashing method is this virtual card, which I pay through Apple Pay, right?
Carder:
Let's take VCC Chime, for example, a virtual card is issued on it, a bank account is loaded via AN/RN, funds are received, the virtual card is linked to Apple Pay. I won't name specific shops and merchants, we cooperate with the Chinese, and in China they have shops that accept payments from all over the world.
They simply open their shops on these platforms and make deposits there. That is, it goes into cash. No equipment or any liquid is purchased in the shops. All this goes into money.
Pavlovich:
But for this you need access, first of all, to someone else's bank account, from which you will steal this money. Yes. And where do you get them? That is, is this phishing or are these mainly logs?
Carder:
There are several directions. Again, this is both phishing and logs. For example, we work with phishing, we have a leak to the fish, where we get access to the bank by log and pass, we get 2 FA to access the account, and on the account we already do, for example, a SEPA Instant transfer. You can buy a log with a bank account, where you can also pass authorization by log and password and enter it under 2FA with email confirmation, or there are logs that you get into simply by dolls.
Pavlovich:
And who and why sells logs? That is, it is more logical, if you have some kind of stealer, you leaked a lot of traffic to it, got a lot of logs, it is more logical to work on it yourself, in any case, what you can do and know, the same crypto, PayPal and so on.
Carder:
People who mine logs or brute-force logs, my personal guess is that they simply don't want to get their hands dirty, it's easier for them to get a fixed price for an account than to do it solo, because working with bank accounts is a very labor-intensive process. That is, you can buy an account that will cost $300, do a full check on the cardholder, register in VCC with his data, and when you make a transfer, your price will simply be a decline during the transfer, you've fraudulently done it and that's it.
Pavlovich:
What's the conclusion that everyone should do their own thing? You know how to pour, well, cash, yes, he knows how to get traffic there, get logs, well, okay, he took it and sold it.
Carder:
Yes, of course, there are universal teams that independently deal with pouring traffic to their malware, and processing these logs, and cashing out VCC. There are such teams, they are the majority, but there are also sellers who sell these accounts and simply do not want to do this.
About the cost of logs.
Pavlovich:
And how much does one log cost now, for example, an American one?
Carder:
But it depends on what kind of log it is. That is, if it is a shop, then it is inexpensive. If it is a bank account, then the amount will vary depending on the account balance.
Pavlovich:
No, but just like that, for example, I have stealers, I spilled there, I have, I don’t know, a thousand entries in my log, there are his Google accounts, and YouTube, and Instagram, and bank accounts, of course, and PayPal, and whatever you want. Is this how they sell such virgin logs in whole pieces, or is it rare?
Carder:
It is rare. Perhaps this does exist, but it is more common on sites like, say, LOLs. Well, of course, all the people who spill traffic and do this, fat logs, they, naturally, sort them and look at what is in them completely. They leave there, figuratively, some game logs, maybe some shops, there, they can leave a stick. Well, something like that.
About hackers.
Pavlovich:
Ransomware. Are you familiar with, are there any guys in your community who work with these ransomware programs, and what do you personally think about it? There are no such people in our community.
Carder:
To be honest, I was not particularly interested in this area. In our community, there is more work with goods, with merch, with cashing out, accepting funds from European banks. More in this area. That is, hacking, extortion, DDoS, hacking and so on and so forth. In general, there are such acquaintances, and you can find those people who are needed for this or that task.
But we are not interested in this.
Pavlovich:
And what do you mean by working with merch? That is, to open, let's say, some office in Estonia, somehow get some merch from a payment system or from Stripe and enter there a ton of other people's stolen cards or something?
Carder:
I used to think that's how it works too, but in reality, it's much simpler. You buy or manually extract data from business companies. Also, in the public domain, having this data, you can get, find a license for the activity of this organization. And, having this data, in certain payment systems you can register a business account
and, without even warming it up with white transactions, make an invoice and pay for it.
Pavlovich:
Well, you mean like Stripe or Google has it, like you sell some games there figuratively. They just stole some skivy from my card, I don't know, 1045, I think. I saw that they beat them directly in Google Play in some games.
Carder:
Google Play won't have large sums there. This is what I am talking about, it is closer to Stripe. Of course, I will not disclose the name of this payment system. An invoice is issued, payment is made from a bank account, or from a SCC. Within 24 hours, the account may undergo additional verification. You will need to provide a rendered state statement from the bank account, for example, a DL photo of the business owner, for whom the account was opened.
This verification is either successful or not. The funds are unfrozen, and after that you can also issue a VSC, which is cashed out.
Pavlovich:
And how much time do you have until everyone rings there that the money was stolen? Or there may be some kind of hold, before which you cannot.
Carder:
It all depends on the policy of the payment system, i.e. somewhere it can happen within 24 hours, somewhere it may take 3-4-5 days, it all depends on the merchant's policy.
Pavlovich:
But in general you have time, right?
Carder:
In general, I have time, it's just how it works with us, that is, the payment goes through, and if, for example, within 5 hours there is no account blocking or charge, then this is definitely a success.
About coronavirus payments.
Pavlovich:
Tell me a little about the scheme that was with these American coronavirus payments, they paid both individuals and companies, because I read on the Internet that it was stolen, damn, I don't remember how much, either a billion or a trillion, some huge sum, round, I remember.
And there was a transcript that part was stolen by Chinese carders most of all, from American coronavirus money, in second place by Russians, but in general there is such a cosmic amount I have never seen so many zeros can you tell me what the scheme itself looked like and is it still relevant topics on various payments they are relevant in this area.
Carder:
I am interested, but at that time I was not involved in the inner workings of how it all works, I cannot say for sure, but I can say approximately how it looked: functions of a certain state were taken, an application for payment was submitted, i.e. it either passed moderation or did not pass, and any of the VCCs, which was more or less stable for receiving a round sum, was also registered for this full. The period of time that passed there, I think you had to wait 2 weeks or more for this payment.
In general, they simply took a large number of workers who were engaged in processing fulls, i.e. registering and submitting applications for other workers, and they also put them on these fulls to register with the SSM. Well, that's how it worked, and some people made a huge fortune on it.
Pavlovich:
I just, as far as I remember, for some reason there was also an increased demand for a driving license check, that is, some kind of driver's license was required, or I'm mistaken.
Carder:
Perhaps, most likely, it is for verification, having broken through DL, it is a normal practice, having broken through DL, SSM, other baggage data.
Pavlovich:
And where do you now break through the same SSN, DOB and other data? It's just that these accounts, as far as I remember, were rare even in my time. They are there from the logs, well, it is really hard to get, because the same Accurint and others, they are owned by, well, private detectives, there, the police, etc. And where do you break through? That is, are there any specialized services? Or do you try to fish out these accounts from the logs and try to log into them?
Carder:
DOB, for example, can be broken through independently. That is, there are no problems with this, having a billing address. Date of birth. First name, last name of the cardholder. There is quite a lot of information in the public domain, but if you need to break through additional, cases or any other background data, I personally contact the services. Such services are shown by our, let's say, Western colleagues, Asian ones, and our local ones.
It's not expensive, about 3-5 bucks if we take SSM. Otherwise, it's a little more expensive, and it depends on the background information you need.
How has carding affected your life?
Pavlovich:
How has carding affected your life and relationships with people?
Carder:
I started spending more time at home. A lot of my acquaintances from my circle of friends dropped out. Well, that's basically it. You sit at home, work, once a week you allow yourself some decent rest, or once a month you choose to go somewhere to another country or to meet your acquaintances or loved ones. And that's basically how it all happens.
Pavlovich:
How many cups of coffee do you drink a day?
Carder:
I don't like coffee. I don't like coffee and I don't drink tea. When I work, we mostly go to the voice, sit, chat, talk and do work. And I smoke a lot. That's when you smoke, when you start to get nervous and some problems arise, or some exciting moment arises, on which the profit will depend. You sit with a shkudishka and smoke, or you smoke cigarettes.
You smoke a lot.
Pavlovich:
Well, when I was actively carding, I thought I smoked about 30 cigarettes a day. Some very strong ones, like Red Marlbor or Parliament.
Carder:
Yes, absolutely right. A pack a day just flies away with the work process.
Pavlovich:
You said that once a month you go to another country. Do you travel a lot?
Carder:
Relatively, I mostly visit friends, but I really love nature, I try to get out into nature.
How has your attitude to carding changed?
Pavlovich:
How did your attitude to carding change over time? You got to that place where I can't earn money legally and so on, but now you earn money and now
Carder:
Earlier, when I was just entering this area, there was a dual feeling that it turned out to be just a money button that would simply never be accessible. And when some contacts from one area appeared, you go to another and manage to earn money from it. Naturally, you like it.
And you try, you start to learn and discover some new relevant areas, you try to keep your finger on the pulse.
About the future of carding.
Pavlovich:
And what do you see as the future of carding in connection with technological and political changes?
Carder:
It seems to me that one of the best tools will soon be artificial intelligence, which will help to pass verification, for example, write some scripts. I was not interested in it, but I think that the future will belong to it.
Pavlovich:
Yesterday I saw one of our programmers, he is a DevOps guy, his job is complicated, very highly paid, they even get 300-500 thousand rubles in Russian companies. This job is not dusty, but responsible and requires a lot of knowledge, because DevOps is about distributing the load between servers so that everything works clearly and quickly. And yesterday he showed me a trick with the GPT chat, here he takes from one of my sites, from the server, a config that is responsible for speed, for performance, for caching.
And he feeds the GPT config to the chat, you say, well, evaluate it, yes. And the GPT chat literally in 10 seconds decomposes it, well, in a minute, okay. He says, well, your config is good enough, but you missed this line here, there such and such, directly related to caching. And that's it. And he also works in parallel in another one, well, he works for me, and officially still on an official salary of 300K. And he got the idea and now he can do a task in half an hour that would take a week.
And he says, I've already done everything at my official job, but I, well, I said that I need a week for this. It turned out that with the help of AI I solved it in half an hour, I'll just upload this config to the next worker at the end of the week, and that's it, and the task will be completed. So, of course, they definitely help.
Carder:
I hope that we will also master this direction, and in particular in carding this tool will help with work.
Pavlovich:
How do you see your future? Can we say that you got into carding by accident? No, you didn't get into it by accident, you told me. Do you want to do this all your life, or do you have some goal, a dream, like many of my generation of carders had, that we will collect some amount of money that suits us, and go completely into white business, and forget about it, and not look around?
Carder:
I think about it from time to time, because I still worry about my safety. For example, I haven't been to America yet, but I plan to visit it someday. And I think about whether I should continue doing this or not. But when you live like this for half your life, it's hard not to do it. That is, if you start doing something else, it doesn't bring you any pleasure, and you don't see any interest in it.
God willing, if Carding doesn't die, I'll do this all my life.
How much money do you need to be happy?
Pavlovich:
And how much money, as you remember, was in the golden calf, Ostap asked Shura how much money you need to be happy, so that tomorrow, let's say, you can leave carding and, I don't know, live there for your own pleasure?
Carder:
Probably, as Tinkov said, enough to buy a private jet to take your relatives, where they can receive qualified medical care if needed. Probably, how much money so that you can, I don’t know, buy some commercial real estate, rent it out, so that it brings in passive income. I don’t know how much, well, a million dollars, probably.
Pavlovich:
With a competent strategy, or rather, with a fairly conservative one, when you invest part of it in real estate, say, some commercial, which you rent out, part in stocks, a risky asset, well, and crypto, let’s say, part in bonds. In general, with such a fairly passive and conservative strategy, you make about 20% per year, well, in any year there from your capital. That is, from a million you would get 200 thousand a year. What do you say about this amount? It would suit me just fine. I think the majority of our viewers would suit you.
By the way, write in the comments what amount of money per year would make you happy, independent, and you would do whatever you want without going to work. I would like to know.
Blitz.
Pavlovich:
A short blitz question and answer. Is carding alive?
Carder:
Yes.
Pavlovich:
Very alive or not so much?
Carder:
Half-dead, but still alive.
Pavlovich:
Would you prefer carding in the 2000s or carding in the twenties?
Carder:
Probably the 2000s. Of course, I didn’t live through this period, but if I had the opportunity, I think it would have been much easier. And the amounts and loyalty of fraud systems would have been completely different.
Pavlovich:
The best country for carders?
Carder:
Of course, work where there is more money. This is the USA, Europe.
If we talk about the country that is easier to work in, now everyone is moving to Asia, because the payment systems that are there allow a large number of countries. And now the guys are working a lot in Asia. And to be and live in a country where there is no extradition...
Pavlovich:
So this is Russia, right, now?
Carder:
Well, yes.
Pavlovich:
Crime or a quiet life?
Carder:
It depends on the person. For me, perhaps, it is crime, if we are talking about cyber-crime.
Pavlovich:
Have you ever imagined a victim, from which bank account or card you stole money directly?
Carder:
I thought about it, but since we work with business and corporate material, I do not think that we cause someone very big, colossal damage that can affect the fate and life of a person, since in most cases the funds that are written off to merchants, there comes a refund, and at the expense of the merch organization, the money is returned to the injured cardholders.
Therefore, I did not think about it, I was not sad at all, and my conscience does not gnaw at me. The type of activity that I am engaged in.
Pavlovich:
Well, for now. And would you like the same thing to happen to your bank account or the account of your company?
Carder:
Well, if they did, then this means that this is a vulnerability of the bank, and first of all you need to think about where to keep your funds. For example, I keep most of my assets in crypto, in different wallets. There is also in cash. And a small part, which I use in everyday life, on an account in the bank.
Pavlovich:
Do you believe in karma?
Carder:
Sometimes.
Pavlovich:
When is that?
Carder:
I just don’t know how to explain it. In normal communication with friends, with partners, I think that you need to behave decently and not allow any bad behavior in this regard.
Pavlovich:
Aren’t you afraid to sit down?
Carder:
I also sometimes think about it, but I don’t think I’ll sit down.
Pavlovich:
Why?
Carder:
I’m not such a big shark who steals, let’s say, 100 thousand dollars once a week, not millions.
Therefore, I think the authorities have someone to deal with, who makes the numbers much more serious.
Results.
Pavlovich:
Well, that’s the interview, friends. Some of the questions remained unasked, some arose in your mind while reading the topic, you can write them all in the comments and we, maybe, will make a second part, or maybe we’ll film it with someone else. And I also want to make an important remark. Despite the fact that this craft seems easy, seems to be unpunished, sometimes carders, for various reasons, mainly because of their big mouth, sometimes due to a combination of circumstances, still get caught by law enforcement agencies of different countries, in those where they are located or in completely different ones, like I was in Belarus, in Russia, and the USA was and is interested in me, still get caught, sometimes they get real criminal sentences for this and sometimes very large ones. They are calculated, in my case they gave me there, they asked for 14 and a half years, they gave 10.
In the US, here's Psycho Seleznev, who was sitting for carding, selling dumps, credit cards, you might say, got 27 years, and so on, and we mustn't forget that the craft, despite its apparent profitability, ease, romance, and profitability, is still very much persecuted by law enforcement agencies in any country. Therefore, this is not my personal advice, well, of course, everyone has their own head on their shoulders, but if you are already interested in this topic, then you probably have enough brains to figure it out and go into some kind of white business. Create some kind of website, some kind of service store, or become a freelancer. In general, to each his own, but don't do it and don't get caught. Hugs, thank you, please like and comment. Bye.
Sergey Pavlovich talked to a masked guest involved in carding.
How he got into carding, where do they get cards from now, what carding trends are relevant today, how the carding community has changed in recent years, whether top carders are invited to work for special services, how carding will change in the near future - this and much more in this topic.
Contents:
- Introduction
- How did you get into carding?
- What did you do with the logs?
- How much money is needed?
- About education
- Guest about the first violation of the law
- Where do they get cards?
- About forums
- How many carders are there now?
- Who uses chats?
- About competition within the community
- About operational staff in chats
- About force actions
- On the influence of thieves' concepts
- Were there any cases of recruitment?
- How the events of recent years have affected carding
- About attitude towards newcomers
- About training
- About VCC
- About the cost of logs
- About hackers
- About coronavirus payments
- How has carding affected your life?
- How has the attitude towards carding changed?
- About the future of carding
- How much money do you need to be happy?
- Blitz
- Results
Introduction.
Pavlovich:
Hello, friends. New interview. Today about carding, about what I've been doing for probably half my adult life, for which I had to serve 10 years in Belarus, for which I've been wanted by Interpol since 2004, as it recently turned out. And only after, probably, a year recently, my American lawyer somehow started, this case of mine got off the ground, but in general it's a fairly profitable direction, but, let's say, very dangerous.
And don't think that you won't be caught, because it's 50/50. I would say, now maybe our guest will disagree, but in my paradigm it's 50/50. You will either be caught or not. Hello! How did you get here, in carding? And when?
How did you get into carding?
Carder:
Hello. I got into carding 4 years ago. I was interested in the direction of traffic. And then, communicating with other people, I started to process logs and got my first profit directly from the logs.
Pavlovich:
Did you get there by chance or did you want to get into this area on purpose?
Carder:
On purpose. I've always been interested in it. And then, when, let's say, I became an adult and needed to earn money in the quantities that I would like, I considered this area to be one of the most profitable, because I didn't see myself in white business, in self-employment. And this became one of the areas that feed me to this day.
Pavlovich:
Well, judging by everything, you were probably involved in traffic arbitrage before that. Because you say, traffic, that's where the logs got into.
Carder:
Initially, we just scammed in our youth. That is, we scammed around Europe, around the USA for prepayment of certain goods. We accepted money for iBans, and it all started from there. Then I became interested in traffic, and it all started, it went on increasing.
What did you do with the logs?
Pavlovich:
Well, did you pour the logs yourself, let's say, you brought in mammoths for some stealer or ratnik, or did you buy them and do something with them, cash them out?
Carder:
No, directly, when we were working on traffic, the guys who had KhVNTs contacted us. At that time, I still had no idea what it was. We started pouring traffic to their feeds, and then, when we started communicating more or less closely, the guys sent me the logs, and I started to understand what it was with, how it worked, and so on and so forth.
Pavlovich:
And where did the traffic come from? Was it Google, Facebook, did you buy it?
Carder:
Regarding the traffic, we poured in carved traffic, that is, we bought Google logs plus CC, set up an advertising campaign from them and poured it onto the landing.
Pavlovich:
And how much could you get out of one Google account, for example, how much of other people's money could you spin off?
Carder:
Approximately 200-300 dollars. We always took the volume, that is, 5-10 accounts were purchased, the same number of advertising campaigns, all this was poured into one landing.
Pavlovich:
How did you go through moderation in Google?
Carder:
By CQA. Our coder was already doing this. That is, we had an immediate task, they gave us a link to which we would pour traffic, and that's it. The coder was doing all the other tasks.
Pavlovich:
And what was on this link? That is, you pour traffic, and what, a person hooks some kind of stealer, right?
Carder:
Yes, a person hooks a stealer, logs appear on the panel. Bank logs, PayPal, shops. In particular, the guys worked on bank accounts. And all the other little things, shops, payment systems, they gave us, and we personally sat there and poked around with them, studied them.
Pavlovich:
Well, I've seen logs, I've seen them in large quantities, in general, there are a lot of interesting things there. If you get a log of some webmaster, then there are his accounts in different payment systems, naturally, all sorts of ohrevs and other things that webmasters use for their work. In general, there are a lot of interesting things, it seems like you can't understand the money from them, but you can really dig up a lot of free accounts.
Carder:
Yes, you can parse accounts, there are parsers that check these accounts for currencies and then simply give them to some marketplace where they can be sold. But we didn't do this, we were interested in something else. We studied the processing of the PayPal, hit stuff and so on. In short, you were only interested in money. Of course, they were needed at that time.
How much money is needed?
Pavlovich:
And you said that in the white business I did not see that I could earn there, well, the amount of money that I want, that I need. What amounts are you satisfied with?
Carder:
So that I could easily, for example, at that time pay rent, afford to go to a restaurant every other day, buy myself some things once a week. Working as a waiter or somewhere in delivery, the kind of work that is available to young people at 16-17 years old, I did not see myself in it and did not want to do it.
Pavlovich:
Well, if I make a quick calculation, then this is, well, it seems to me, 3-5 thousand dollars, right?
Carder:
If you mean earning money white?
Pavlovich:
No. For all these needs that you listed, 3-5 thousand dollars is quite enough.
Carder:
Yes, yes. Well, it is impossible to earn this money in a legal job somewhere as a waiter or somewhere else. That is, well, without having some kind of proper education to hold a position somewhere.
About education.
Pavlovich:
Why didn't you get an education? What prevented you from doing so?
Carder:
I got an education, but I got it because my parents wanted me to. When I was in my third year, I realized that it wasn’t for me, so I transferred to correspondence courses. I graduated from the educational institution and, probably, a few years later, when they called from there and told me to pick up my diploma, I came, picked it up, and it was just lying there gathering dust.
Pavlovich:
Well, did you at least take it to your parents?
Carder:
Of course.
Pavlovich:
You see, I realized a little earlier, I realized in my first year, probably in the first month, that it wasn’t quite for me. But, by the way, I should make a reservation, I just had to earn money. It was hard to get to the institute by 8:30, that’s the first point. Well, I’m kind of a newbie, I go to bed at 2-3, I have to be at the institute by 8:30. And the second point is, well, there was simply no money in the family. But if I had been some kind of rich kid there, then, probably, I would have studied journalism.
Everything was really cool for us. We drank at lectures. Well, in short, our own movie. Journalism is something like that. And philologists themselves were probably two fun faculties.
Guest about the first violation of the law.
Pavlovich:
The first time you broke the law and took some of someone else's log, yes, that is, some of someone else's payment details and so on, or entered someone else's card, do you remember?
Carder:
Yes, I found a channel in Telegram where AMIR was uploading a cloud of logs, and these were logs for 2018. That is, it was a terrible, well-developed work-out, where, in principle, nothing alive could have been. Well, I just sat in my free time and picked up logs and passes.
And miraculously, as funny as it may seem, the Proton resource, which has established itself as one of the most anonymous I simply entered Proton mail using my login and password and realized that I had entered the account of an arbitrageur who lives in Israel, who has white projects to which he himself pours traffic. When I looked at all this and studied it, he did not set up two-step authentication in his mail, did not attach any backup mail, I completely re-tied it to myself. And somewhere in half an hour I found his VSC, which he replenished to link to Facebook or Google, I don’t remember exactly, but there were about 500 bucks on it.
I was very happy, took my phone and entered it into my bank account with the replenishment of another card, a code came to the VSC, I confirmed it and the funds were successfully credited to the drop bank account.
Pavlovich:
And what did you feel at that moment?
Carder:
Passion is not comparable to any hobby that brings pleasure, neither fishing nor hunting. I still experience this excitement when I get some profit, and it cannot be called a hobby. Most likely, it is a lifestyle, a way of life. I realized that I cannot live without it, and probably the only place where I could see myself in legal earnings, most likely, is sales.
Because when you close a client and get some profit, when it comes to you not just like that, but with some kind of work, then it brings pleasure that cannot be compared to anything.
Pavlovich:
In short, you entered someone else's card, the transaction went through, the goods arrived, let's say, or something else, yes, and you experience this real pleasure, like from a trophy.
Carder:
Every day, every day, when I get some profit from the entered goods or from the replenished merch, this brings me colossal pleasure. It's not even about the money, it's about what you're doing.
Pavlovich:
What you do is the largest single transaction from someone else's bank details.
Carder:
The card that was one-time in your life, we poured four and a half thousand dollars into.
Pavlovich:
I remember the merch at a time was 9,600, I bought it there was an error in short in RDP for repairing the desktop I bought for 9,600 with some kind of visa signey chat, actually bottomless, I bought some kind of port scanner there, well, no, I don't remember, back in 2003, and I just remember, my largest transaction was 9,600, alone without anything at all. But 4,500 is also not bad. What carding areas are relevant in 2025?
Carder:
I will list several areas now, I have not worked in them, but personally, in my opinion, they are currently the most profitable. These are payments that were for the coronavirus, these are self-registration of credit cards in the USA. At the moment, also processing bank logs, then hit the stuff.
Well, I think these are some of the most relevant today, which work and bring good money.
Where do they get cards?
Pavlovich:
And where do you get cards now? It's just that there were all these shops, there's Joker Stash and others, but they all closed down, and now there's a problem with the cards, I guess.
Carder:
I won't disclose the specific source of the material from which I get it. This is not phishing, this is not a sniffer. Basically, the guys get mat from fish. From fish, from logs, from malware that collects card data, cardholder names, billing, and so on. Well, basically yes. These are stealers and fish.
Pavlovich:
But I also know that they simply hack some shop and hang sniffer traffic on its payment page.
Carder:
This is also a common practice.
Pavlovich:
And from your observations of the carder community, you just weren't in the crowd at the time.
Carder:
Now it's decreasing or, on the contrary, growing exponentially due to the fact that young people are entering the market and, let's say, if people used to take care of their safety and didn't advertise their illegal tools for earning money, now young people advertise it on all social networks, upload videos to TikTok about how to cash out this or that VCC, how much money they earned, how many expensive things they bought for themselves.
Naturally, people look at it, pay attention, are interested in it, and enter the market. A lot of topics are dying for this very reason, because young people are starting to cover it, a lot of people are entering, especially the clumsy ones, and fraud systems are tightening the screws, that's all.
Pavlovich:
You're talking about Chubrik, right?
Carder:
Not about Chubrik. Chubrik, as far as I know, they scam, they have scam teams. I'm specifically talking about carding, about cashing out VCC, entering stuff, registering certain companies. I'm talking about this.
About forums
Pavlovich:
In my time, we communicated, exchanged information, made acquaintances and chatted simply and usefully on carder forums. Many of them have changed, Carder.org was the first, then CarderPlanet, my forum, well, in short, there have been probably up to this day, since the beginning of the 2000s, there were probably 40-50 of them, yes, and the forums are functioning now, or carders communicate in some other, there, their communities and in other forums.
Carder:
To be honest, personally, I have never sat on forums. Personally, my opinion is that it's somehow primitive. Now the entire Dark is in Telegram, and if we draw a parallel, then, for example, those VSC cashing services that are on WWH boards, they are advertised in our Telegram channels and chats in the same way. They also buy pins, publications in channels, and everything that is on WWH, we have everything, and all communication takes place in Telegram. Almost all of Dark has gone to Telegram.
Pavlovich:
That is, on the forums already... Well, they are present, probably people, yes, out of old habit, and why are they on the forums at all then?
Carder:
They are present out of old habit, and if a deposit is required, to make some kind of thread, they open it just for the sake of it and some kind of trust, nothing more.
Pavlovich:
And these carding chats in Telegram, are there many of them? Hundreds, thousands? And how do they function?
Carder:
Well, there are probably hundreds of them, but the key chats are about 15-20. The usual mutual PR, selling ads, posting their services, selling goods. Cybercrime doesn't need any overseers.
Pavlovich:
Can you pour yourself, well, nal, yes, he can get traffic there, get logs, well, okay, he took and sold. At the moment, you can easily be merged, your dialogue can be thrown off. And how much time do you have until everything rings there that the money was stolen?
Carder:
No fraud system becomes loyal. My conscience does not gnaw at me.
How many carders are there now?
Pavlovich:
Well, when I was counting at the request of, say, Western journalists, probably only at the beginning of the channel somewhere in 2020, I took the total number of forums functioning at that time, and looked at the total number of registered participants. It is clear that I have there, you, maybe on each forum by nickname, or even more than one, yes, that is, you need to divide strongly.
But I divided, in my opinion, somewhere by six. And based on this, I counted in the 20th year that on the forums, just in our time the largest forum was 6 thousand people, on the planet there were 4 thousand people, well, that is, some miserable quantities, now in the 20th year there were about a million 200 registered members on all hacker carder boards. Well, I divided by about 6, I understood that the community is active, carder, Russian-speaking, somewhere 200-300 thousand people.
Compare with our 6k yes, but this is many times much more and in the telegram, how would you estimate from all the chats that you are a member of the total number of participants, well, as I already mentioned.
Carder:
Plus or minus 15-20 chats where participants start from 2000 to 5 10 15 maximum some chats are open access, that is, where you can just go and join, some are private where you need to submit an application, for example, to get into our chat, we conduct moderation, we look at how long the user has been registered, whether there are any common chats with him
by username, we look if he is on any blacklists and so on.
Who uses chats?
Pavlovich:
Use God's eye. I personally do not use it, but my moderators do. And who are the founders of these carding chats, that is, just some active carders or guys far from the movement, who are simply interested in some kind of advertising income?
Carder:
Basically, these are carders who work, just people who are in the subject and took responsibility for uniting, let's say, their own and their friends. That is, let's say, how it was with us, I had Traffer, Coder, guys from Europe who provided the details for receiving funds, there was also Leika. I simply united all my friends in one chat, initially it was private, then we began to partner with other chats, communicate, take a mutual break.
Well, actually, that's how it grew to 7,000 people at the moment.
About competition within the community.
Pavlovich:
Well, quite a lot. And what about conflicts within the community and competition in general? You say there are 15-20 main chats. So, are you all trying to be friends or are you trying to destroy each other?
Carder:
In general, I will speak for us, we are open to any cooperation, adequate communication, but there are such characters from neighboring countries who do not like us. And adequate communication and any kind of communication with them simply does not work out. I will say more, they have, let's call them supports, who are engaged in various provocations to denigrate the reputation of this or that resource or service.
Quite a lot of time is spent on stopping this pressure, on defiling someone, on putting other pressure on someone.
Pavlovich:
And I saw in some chats, well, maybe you are also a member of them, I, in principle, do not get along, I do not have enough time. Yes, firstly, I don’t need it, secondly, well, I don’t have enough time, because YouTube is a business, there, YouTube takes up 10% of the time for business, all sorts of things in different areas 90. But when someone tags me there or someone attacks me there, well, naturally, I go from there. And in some chats sometimes you see, well, what, and this FSB guy, well, he’s sitting there, working with them, yes, everyone knows that he’s an FSB guy, and somehow it’s like that, well, everyone treats it calmly, well, as it should be.
That is, in our times we were somehow afraid of these hidden, let’s say, employees of various special services, not only Russian, but also foreign. We weren’t afraid of the Russians at all, in principle.
Carder:
I won’t talk about topics related to Russia, I’ll give a Western example. Indeed, there are cases when office workers are present in these chats, the administration understands who they are, but they have specific interactions to promote their services. That is, how does this happen in general, how is this implementation going? Office workers open this or that service.
About operatives in chats.
Pavlovich:
You mean office workers, so that we understand figuratively, this is an operative of the special services, most likely, right?
Carder:
Yes. How does this happen? Not directly, not with their own hands, this or that service is opened that provides services, let's take figuratively, let it be breaking through the SSN and DOB full, for example. This service buys advertising in this or that chat, people start contacting them, and after that there is communication directly with them.
There are people in the chats who are far from the picture, they want to get into it and earn something, but they can't do it, and no one comes to their aid. Such characters are taken on a tick and offered earnings. What does it consist of? Directly in promoting their service and with communication with other figures from no-names to other services, administrations, chats, and so on and so forth.
Data is collected on the person of interest. Basically, there are simply dionons. A clash of groups of people, a clash of interests occurs, and if, for example, you met offline with certain people and after some time you have a conflict with them, your dion occurs, which actually simplifies the work of office workers and then they start
to take an interest in you more globally.
Pavlovich:
I am surprised to see that they still meet, now even on the contrary, since the beginning of the war and so on, somehow everyone resolves some conflicts offline, meets there, for example, Luka, remember, yes, he was probably there personally from 20, 30, 50 or even.
Carder:
Hundreds of people met, I don’t know who this person met with, I don’t take him seriously at all, he himself proclaimed himself to be what he is not, to be honest, I didn’t want to mention him and give him some kind of PR.
Pavlovich:
About dionons. Here are the deanons, as if, in general, well, so, not very good at deanonizing a person, unless, of course, he is a complete scum, because, well, the same cops as us, are watching him and, in principle, can either put him on notice or just put him in jail.
Carder:
Absolutely right, but now there are a minimum of any ethical concepts, that is, if you simply worked with a person for a certain time, have known him for several years, met him offline, and you had some kind of disagreement and a money issue, then at the current moment you can easily be dumped, your dialogue thrown off or your data given to the same office employees, and you will be like a sweet pie to them.
About forceful actions.
Pavlovich:
And about forceful actions. You say that the issue can be resolved by deanoning, for example, or in other ways. So is something like that happening now or not?
Carder:
Of course, carders get through if someone has a conflict with someone, having got through an order of sportsmen. And starting from ordinary bullying, ending with direct physical contact, there is such a practice.
Pavlovich:
Can you remember some widely known conflicts of recent years?
Carder:
I will not name names, but, let's say, some services that were engaged in cashing in the USSR, and in the same way advertised their life on social networks. This led, in general, to the fact that the person was taken out of town, all the funds that he saved were taken from him. Now he is in a lull, and no one knows what he is doing, from which Telegram account he sits.
This is what all this actually leads to.
About the influence of thieves' concepts.
Pavlovich:
And to what extent do thieves' concepts in general, yes, all these old ones, do they influence cybercriminals, and how do they interact in this area in general?
Carder:
My subjective opinion, the only intersection that can be, is, again, the clarification of some conflicts outside of online. That is, people begin to contact some local authorities and hold meetings offline. This is the only intersection of thieves' concepts and street movements.
My opinion is that cybercrime does not need any overseers and so on and so forth, since it was born without them, and in general the situation does not require their presence in any way.
Pavlovich:
Well, only to resolve some conflict situations, perhaps. Yes. Well, what do you think about it, they do gather on the Internet, there, as we know, some common funds and so on, right? It's just that when you are involved in crime, it doesn't matter whether it's offline or online, well, there is a chance of ending up behind bars. And it is presented in such a way that you warmed the camps here and there, which means you won't be forgotten. What do you think about it?
Carder:
I don't look at it from the point of view of thieves' concepts. We have several friends who ended up behind bars. And we personally pay attention to them. And we think that in general this is enough to avoid sending money to some overseers that will be spent God knows where.
Pavlovich:
So, to warm it up personally, right?
Carder:
Yes.
Have there been cases of recruitment?
Pavlovich:
And do you know of any cases? Well, I just have journalists less often now, because I don't communicate with them anymore, but they always asked if you were recruited at least once, there, into the special services and so on. That is, I say, well, such a practice, it is quite rare. Firstly, who was recruited there, you will never know, and he himself will not say. Secondly, no one has approached me at all. That is, they can probably contact me for some consulting purposes, like, tell me what this scheme looks like, because lawyers, for example, call me, help me unravel the situation.
But they haven’t directly recruited me like that. And the same Sachkov, who has now been given 14 years, unfortunately, talked about this well. They explained well that law enforcement officers, they believe that ours, that the Western ones, that if you have already stumbled once, this is such a lifestyle, you also talked about the lifestyle, that he will constantly steal, nothing will change there, he needs big money, and we there in the civil service, the FSB and so on cannot give it. And, in short, they simply do not trust. And this is probably the main reason why we and so on do not recruit you. And what do you have to say on this topic? And have there been such cases in your life or among your acquaintances?
Carder:
Among my acquaintances there have been such cases, there are proposals to provide information about government officials of certain countries, there are proposals to brute force street surveillance cameras and everything of that sort. Yes, this practice exists.
How do they approach this? You receive this offer either from some of your acquaintances, who in turn were approached by other acquaintances, that is, it does not happen directly, this offer comes, or as a task, that figuratively, a database of this or that country is needed, can you do it, is there a date, for what amount.
Or they tell you that there is a certain number of tasks from office employees, we can work together, you can sit on a percentage or some kind of salary and perform certain tasks, help and make decisions on certain issues.
Pavlovich:
But this happens with people who have not been caught, who have not been exposed. So figuratively, you can write to you there tomorrow, for example. It's just that in my paradigm, you know, this is mainly how it happened, when people have already been exposed somewhere, they are offered, probably, some kind of cooperation in order to reduce the term and so on. But these are people who are already definitely involved in crime, who have a criminal case ahead.
Carder:
This offer can come spontaneously. Have you served time, have you been exposed somewhere or not. It depends on what environment you are in and with whom you live, and how many handshakes there will be from the sender of this offer to you.
How have the events of recent years affected carding.
Pavlovich:
Well, this is how I can judge, from what you say, it is now connected with the political and military situation, yes, more? Possibly. Good. And how have the events of the last year and a half, almost two years already affected the carding community and hacking in general?
Carder:
Well, I'll give you a personal example. We worked on German material before the political situation, which is at the moment. Previously, we could enter Germany via 3DS with a top-up of the personal account of the bank. That is, now, of course, such procedures cannot be done. This is the minimum. Also the border, the import of stuff, iPhones and everything else.
Many aspects where the screws have been tightened.
Pavlovich:
So it has become more difficult?
Carder:
Of course.
Pavlovich:
But this interpersonal communication, there, carders of Ukraine figuratively, carders of Russia, that is, has it changed? Here you speak in chats, provocateurs appear and so on. Has it changed or not? Or just arbitrageurs, for example, right? Well, we were all in the same parties, there, at the same conferences and so on. Well, everyone understands everything, adults are united by one thing. Well, somehow such swearing there directly on this national military grounds I did not notice among carders that.
Carder:
There are also some people who react and treat this with understanding, there are even significant figures in carding who speak out on this topic quite aggressively, that is, in our community we try not to discuss these topics at all so that any conversation or dispute on this or that topic starts.
In other communities, they openly and aggressively express their position and insult people from other countries.
Pavlovich:
But have you personally had more or less money over the past year and a half? Well, and in general among community members.
Carder:
It has become more, because we discovered one of the payment systems that now feeds us. But in general, I think it has become very difficult, and in some areas there have probably been more problems, it has become more difficult to earn money. In principle, year after year, no fraud system becomes more loyal. It has always become more difficult year after year.
Pavlovich:
Well, plus, as you say, new people come.
Carder:
Yes.
About the attitude towards newcomers.
Pavlovich:
Well, in my time, it was somehow friendly there, you know, they were so loyal to newcomers. That is, if they didn’t ask stupid questions, everyone helped them, tried to direct them somewhere, help them with something, and later they worked with some of them. I remember there was one kid, I worked with him, he was, I think, 13 years old. Delik or whatever his name was, well, really little, 13 years old. And what is the attitude towards newcomers now?
Carder:
I’ll tell you that you caught it in the golden period, probably, when everyone was friendly and someone was giving someone some advice. Now newcomers who come in, who are looking for this or that material or manual, they will be scammed a thousand times during training, and they are not given any oxygen at all.
That is, not only that if a person simply asks about a particular issue, not only will they not answer it, they will curse him, send him away, laugh at him, and basically that's how the communication situation is now.
About training.
Pavlovich:
Various carding trainings, we see them in chats and on some forums. What do you think about them?
Carder:
I will speak for myself, personally, I have not bought a single training and generally try to at least spend money on consumables. If a person has any desire, then all the available information is present on Google and YouTube. Manuals that are sold, well, it all depends on the author of these manuals. Basically, everything that is sold is no longer quite relevant. Perhaps you can earn something from this, but not as much as, for example, before, when it was in private.
Pavlovich:
Does PayPal give anything else?
Carder:
Gives, gives little by little. Gives to make sands, guys take loans on a stick. It is mainly used now as a way to withdraw funds.
Pavlovich:
Is a loan something new? I didn’t think that you could take a loan on PayPal or something.
Carder:
In the full of a certain state, a loan is approved, which you can use on certain shops. For example, eBay. Either old accounts are purchased, old regs, or self-registrations are made for certain functions of a certain state. After which you are approved for a loan, which you can use to purchase this or that product.
Pavlovich:
So this is more of a commodity loan, right?
Carder:
Yes.
About VCC.
Pavlovich:
And tell me, how do they pour into VCC? I just saw the guys who then, it was a few years ago, hammered “Robin Hood” all, “Money Line”, I think, “Money Lion”, yes, and “Robin Hood”. I just saw the final stage, when another thing is added to your phone, well, Apple Pay worked in Russia, for example, when a Robin Hood or Money Leon card is added to your iPhone and you just go buy laptops and everything else, because there is no PIN code on the card with money.
Where did the money on this card come from?
Carder:
Are you specifically talking about VCC? Where did the money on the VCC come from? Uploading from a bank account, or there is a business in the VCC, where an invoice is issued and it is replenished from a bank account, or from VCC.
Pavlovich:
That is, from someone else's bank account, for example, just some dirty money, stolen from somewhere, is uploaded to my Robinhood, whose VCC I have now linked to my phone? Yes. That is, it turns out that my Robinhood simply acts as an account for accepting funds, and the cashing method is this virtual card, which I pay through Apple Pay, right?
Carder:
Let's take VCC Chime, for example, a virtual card is issued on it, a bank account is loaded via AN/RN, funds are received, the virtual card is linked to Apple Pay. I won't name specific shops and merchants, we cooperate with the Chinese, and in China they have shops that accept payments from all over the world.
They simply open their shops on these platforms and make deposits there. That is, it goes into cash. No equipment or any liquid is purchased in the shops. All this goes into money.
Pavlovich:
But for this you need access, first of all, to someone else's bank account, from which you will steal this money. Yes. And where do you get them? That is, is this phishing or are these mainly logs?
Carder:
There are several directions. Again, this is both phishing and logs. For example, we work with phishing, we have a leak to the fish, where we get access to the bank by log and pass, we get 2 FA to access the account, and on the account we already do, for example, a SEPA Instant transfer. You can buy a log with a bank account, where you can also pass authorization by log and password and enter it under 2FA with email confirmation, or there are logs that you get into simply by dolls.
Pavlovich:
And who and why sells logs? That is, it is more logical, if you have some kind of stealer, you leaked a lot of traffic to it, got a lot of logs, it is more logical to work on it yourself, in any case, what you can do and know, the same crypto, PayPal and so on.
Carder:
People who mine logs or brute-force logs, my personal guess is that they simply don't want to get their hands dirty, it's easier for them to get a fixed price for an account than to do it solo, because working with bank accounts is a very labor-intensive process. That is, you can buy an account that will cost $300, do a full check on the cardholder, register in VCC with his data, and when you make a transfer, your price will simply be a decline during the transfer, you've fraudulently done it and that's it.
Pavlovich:
What's the conclusion that everyone should do their own thing? You know how to pour, well, cash, yes, he knows how to get traffic there, get logs, well, okay, he took it and sold it.
Carder:
Yes, of course, there are universal teams that independently deal with pouring traffic to their malware, and processing these logs, and cashing out VCC. There are such teams, they are the majority, but there are also sellers who sell these accounts and simply do not want to do this.
About the cost of logs.
Pavlovich:
And how much does one log cost now, for example, an American one?
Carder:
But it depends on what kind of log it is. That is, if it is a shop, then it is inexpensive. If it is a bank account, then the amount will vary depending on the account balance.
Pavlovich:
No, but just like that, for example, I have stealers, I spilled there, I have, I don’t know, a thousand entries in my log, there are his Google accounts, and YouTube, and Instagram, and bank accounts, of course, and PayPal, and whatever you want. Is this how they sell such virgin logs in whole pieces, or is it rare?
Carder:
It is rare. Perhaps this does exist, but it is more common on sites like, say, LOLs. Well, of course, all the people who spill traffic and do this, fat logs, they, naturally, sort them and look at what is in them completely. They leave there, figuratively, some game logs, maybe some shops, there, they can leave a stick. Well, something like that.
About hackers.
Pavlovich:
Ransomware. Are you familiar with, are there any guys in your community who work with these ransomware programs, and what do you personally think about it? There are no such people in our community.
Carder:
To be honest, I was not particularly interested in this area. In our community, there is more work with goods, with merch, with cashing out, accepting funds from European banks. More in this area. That is, hacking, extortion, DDoS, hacking and so on and so forth. In general, there are such acquaintances, and you can find those people who are needed for this or that task.
But we are not interested in this.
Pavlovich:
And what do you mean by working with merch? That is, to open, let's say, some office in Estonia, somehow get some merch from a payment system or from Stripe and enter there a ton of other people's stolen cards or something?
Carder:
I used to think that's how it works too, but in reality, it's much simpler. You buy or manually extract data from business companies. Also, in the public domain, having this data, you can get, find a license for the activity of this organization. And, having this data, in certain payment systems you can register a business account
and, without even warming it up with white transactions, make an invoice and pay for it.
Pavlovich:
Well, you mean like Stripe or Google has it, like you sell some games there figuratively. They just stole some skivy from my card, I don't know, 1045, I think. I saw that they beat them directly in Google Play in some games.
Carder:
Google Play won't have large sums there. This is what I am talking about, it is closer to Stripe. Of course, I will not disclose the name of this payment system. An invoice is issued, payment is made from a bank account, or from a SCC. Within 24 hours, the account may undergo additional verification. You will need to provide a rendered state statement from the bank account, for example, a DL photo of the business owner, for whom the account was opened.
This verification is either successful or not. The funds are unfrozen, and after that you can also issue a VSC, which is cashed out.
Pavlovich:
And how much time do you have until everyone rings there that the money was stolen? Or there may be some kind of hold, before which you cannot.
Carder:
It all depends on the policy of the payment system, i.e. somewhere it can happen within 24 hours, somewhere it may take 3-4-5 days, it all depends on the merchant's policy.
Pavlovich:
But in general you have time, right?
Carder:
In general, I have time, it's just how it works with us, that is, the payment goes through, and if, for example, within 5 hours there is no account blocking or charge, then this is definitely a success.
About coronavirus payments.
Pavlovich:
Tell me a little about the scheme that was with these American coronavirus payments, they paid both individuals and companies, because I read on the Internet that it was stolen, damn, I don't remember how much, either a billion or a trillion, some huge sum, round, I remember.
And there was a transcript that part was stolen by Chinese carders most of all, from American coronavirus money, in second place by Russians, but in general there is such a cosmic amount I have never seen so many zeros can you tell me what the scheme itself looked like and is it still relevant topics on various payments they are relevant in this area.
Carder:
I am interested, but at that time I was not involved in the inner workings of how it all works, I cannot say for sure, but I can say approximately how it looked: functions of a certain state were taken, an application for payment was submitted, i.e. it either passed moderation or did not pass, and any of the VCCs, which was more or less stable for receiving a round sum, was also registered for this full. The period of time that passed there, I think you had to wait 2 weeks or more for this payment.
In general, they simply took a large number of workers who were engaged in processing fulls, i.e. registering and submitting applications for other workers, and they also put them on these fulls to register with the SSM. Well, that's how it worked, and some people made a huge fortune on it.
Pavlovich:
I just, as far as I remember, for some reason there was also an increased demand for a driving license check, that is, some kind of driver's license was required, or I'm mistaken.
Carder:
Perhaps, most likely, it is for verification, having broken through DL, it is a normal practice, having broken through DL, SSM, other baggage data.
Pavlovich:
And where do you now break through the same SSN, DOB and other data? It's just that these accounts, as far as I remember, were rare even in my time. They are there from the logs, well, it is really hard to get, because the same Accurint and others, they are owned by, well, private detectives, there, the police, etc. And where do you break through? That is, are there any specialized services? Or do you try to fish out these accounts from the logs and try to log into them?
Carder:
DOB, for example, can be broken through independently. That is, there are no problems with this, having a billing address. Date of birth. First name, last name of the cardholder. There is quite a lot of information in the public domain, but if you need to break through additional, cases or any other background data, I personally contact the services. Such services are shown by our, let's say, Western colleagues, Asian ones, and our local ones.
It's not expensive, about 3-5 bucks if we take SSM. Otherwise, it's a little more expensive, and it depends on the background information you need.
How has carding affected your life?
Pavlovich:
How has carding affected your life and relationships with people?
Carder:
I started spending more time at home. A lot of my acquaintances from my circle of friends dropped out. Well, that's basically it. You sit at home, work, once a week you allow yourself some decent rest, or once a month you choose to go somewhere to another country or to meet your acquaintances or loved ones. And that's basically how it all happens.
Pavlovich:
How many cups of coffee do you drink a day?
Carder:
I don't like coffee. I don't like coffee and I don't drink tea. When I work, we mostly go to the voice, sit, chat, talk and do work. And I smoke a lot. That's when you smoke, when you start to get nervous and some problems arise, or some exciting moment arises, on which the profit will depend. You sit with a shkudishka and smoke, or you smoke cigarettes.
You smoke a lot.
Pavlovich:
Well, when I was actively carding, I thought I smoked about 30 cigarettes a day. Some very strong ones, like Red Marlbor or Parliament.
Carder:
Yes, absolutely right. A pack a day just flies away with the work process.
Pavlovich:
You said that once a month you go to another country. Do you travel a lot?
Carder:
Relatively, I mostly visit friends, but I really love nature, I try to get out into nature.
How has your attitude to carding changed?
Pavlovich:
How did your attitude to carding change over time? You got to that place where I can't earn money legally and so on, but now you earn money and now
Carder:
Earlier, when I was just entering this area, there was a dual feeling that it turned out to be just a money button that would simply never be accessible. And when some contacts from one area appeared, you go to another and manage to earn money from it. Naturally, you like it.
And you try, you start to learn and discover some new relevant areas, you try to keep your finger on the pulse.
About the future of carding.
Pavlovich:
And what do you see as the future of carding in connection with technological and political changes?
Carder:
It seems to me that one of the best tools will soon be artificial intelligence, which will help to pass verification, for example, write some scripts. I was not interested in it, but I think that the future will belong to it.
Pavlovich:
Yesterday I saw one of our programmers, he is a DevOps guy, his job is complicated, very highly paid, they even get 300-500 thousand rubles in Russian companies. This job is not dusty, but responsible and requires a lot of knowledge, because DevOps is about distributing the load between servers so that everything works clearly and quickly. And yesterday he showed me a trick with the GPT chat, here he takes from one of my sites, from the server, a config that is responsible for speed, for performance, for caching.
And he feeds the GPT config to the chat, you say, well, evaluate it, yes. And the GPT chat literally in 10 seconds decomposes it, well, in a minute, okay. He says, well, your config is good enough, but you missed this line here, there such and such, directly related to caching. And that's it. And he also works in parallel in another one, well, he works for me, and officially still on an official salary of 300K. And he got the idea and now he can do a task in half an hour that would take a week.
And he says, I've already done everything at my official job, but I, well, I said that I need a week for this. It turned out that with the help of AI I solved it in half an hour, I'll just upload this config to the next worker at the end of the week, and that's it, and the task will be completed. So, of course, they definitely help.
Carder:
I hope that we will also master this direction, and in particular in carding this tool will help with work.
Pavlovich:
How do you see your future? Can we say that you got into carding by accident? No, you didn't get into it by accident, you told me. Do you want to do this all your life, or do you have some goal, a dream, like many of my generation of carders had, that we will collect some amount of money that suits us, and go completely into white business, and forget about it, and not look around?
Carder:
I think about it from time to time, because I still worry about my safety. For example, I haven't been to America yet, but I plan to visit it someday. And I think about whether I should continue doing this or not. But when you live like this for half your life, it's hard not to do it. That is, if you start doing something else, it doesn't bring you any pleasure, and you don't see any interest in it.
God willing, if Carding doesn't die, I'll do this all my life.
How much money do you need to be happy?
Pavlovich:
And how much money, as you remember, was in the golden calf, Ostap asked Shura how much money you need to be happy, so that tomorrow, let's say, you can leave carding and, I don't know, live there for your own pleasure?
Carder:
Probably, as Tinkov said, enough to buy a private jet to take your relatives, where they can receive qualified medical care if needed. Probably, how much money so that you can, I don’t know, buy some commercial real estate, rent it out, so that it brings in passive income. I don’t know how much, well, a million dollars, probably.
Pavlovich:
With a competent strategy, or rather, with a fairly conservative one, when you invest part of it in real estate, say, some commercial, which you rent out, part in stocks, a risky asset, well, and crypto, let’s say, part in bonds. In general, with such a fairly passive and conservative strategy, you make about 20% per year, well, in any year there from your capital. That is, from a million you would get 200 thousand a year. What do you say about this amount? It would suit me just fine. I think the majority of our viewers would suit you.
By the way, write in the comments what amount of money per year would make you happy, independent, and you would do whatever you want without going to work. I would like to know.
Blitz.
Pavlovich:
A short blitz question and answer. Is carding alive?
Carder:
Yes.
Pavlovich:
Very alive or not so much?
Carder:
Half-dead, but still alive.
Pavlovich:
Would you prefer carding in the 2000s or carding in the twenties?
Carder:
Probably the 2000s. Of course, I didn’t live through this period, but if I had the opportunity, I think it would have been much easier. And the amounts and loyalty of fraud systems would have been completely different.
Pavlovich:
The best country for carders?
Carder:
Of course, work where there is more money. This is the USA, Europe.
If we talk about the country that is easier to work in, now everyone is moving to Asia, because the payment systems that are there allow a large number of countries. And now the guys are working a lot in Asia. And to be and live in a country where there is no extradition...
Pavlovich:
So this is Russia, right, now?
Carder:
Well, yes.
Pavlovich:
Crime or a quiet life?
Carder:
It depends on the person. For me, perhaps, it is crime, if we are talking about cyber-crime.
Pavlovich:
Have you ever imagined a victim, from which bank account or card you stole money directly?
Carder:
I thought about it, but since we work with business and corporate material, I do not think that we cause someone very big, colossal damage that can affect the fate and life of a person, since in most cases the funds that are written off to merchants, there comes a refund, and at the expense of the merch organization, the money is returned to the injured cardholders.
Therefore, I did not think about it, I was not sad at all, and my conscience does not gnaw at me. The type of activity that I am engaged in.
Pavlovich:
Well, for now. And would you like the same thing to happen to your bank account or the account of your company?
Carder:
Well, if they did, then this means that this is a vulnerability of the bank, and first of all you need to think about where to keep your funds. For example, I keep most of my assets in crypto, in different wallets. There is also in cash. And a small part, which I use in everyday life, on an account in the bank.
Pavlovich:
Do you believe in karma?
Carder:
Sometimes.
Pavlovich:
When is that?
Carder:
I just don’t know how to explain it. In normal communication with friends, with partners, I think that you need to behave decently and not allow any bad behavior in this regard.
Pavlovich:
Aren’t you afraid to sit down?
Carder:
I also sometimes think about it, but I don’t think I’ll sit down.
Pavlovich:
Why?
Carder:
I’m not such a big shark who steals, let’s say, 100 thousand dollars once a week, not millions.
Therefore, I think the authorities have someone to deal with, who makes the numbers much more serious.
Results.
Pavlovich:
Well, that’s the interview, friends. Some of the questions remained unasked, some arose in your mind while reading the topic, you can write them all in the comments and we, maybe, will make a second part, or maybe we’ll film it with someone else. And I also want to make an important remark. Despite the fact that this craft seems easy, seems to be unpunished, sometimes carders, for various reasons, mainly because of their big mouth, sometimes due to a combination of circumstances, still get caught by law enforcement agencies of different countries, in those where they are located or in completely different ones, like I was in Belarus, in Russia, and the USA was and is interested in me, still get caught, sometimes they get real criminal sentences for this and sometimes very large ones. They are calculated, in my case they gave me there, they asked for 14 and a half years, they gave 10.
In the US, here's Psycho Seleznev, who was sitting for carding, selling dumps, credit cards, you might say, got 27 years, and so on, and we mustn't forget that the craft, despite its apparent profitability, ease, romance, and profitability, is still very much persecuted by law enforcement agencies in any country. Therefore, this is not my personal advice, well, of course, everyone has their own head on their shoulders, but if you are already interested in this topic, then you probably have enough brains to figure it out and go into some kind of white business. Create some kind of website, some kind of service store, or become a freelancer. In general, to each his own, but don't do it and don't get caught. Hugs, thank you, please like and comment. Bye.
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