Jollier
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Sergey Pavlovich is the most famous carder in the CIS. In total, his former organization was accused of causing damage of one billion (1,000,000,000) US dollars, while Sergey himself (the People.pro channel) was responsible for more than a million dollars according to a court decision - more than $36 million. Sergey served two terms, a total of 10 years in the Republic of Belarus. Today, he came to me for an interview with a clear conscience to talk about how money is stolen from the population, about security measures, prison and drugs, as well as about those businesses that allow him to feel comfortable in the modern world, and, believe me, there is something to learn there. We had been planning to meet with Sergey for a long time, but somehow everything did not work out, today, we managed to discuss a huge bunch of topics, shared experiences and ideas.
Contents:
Larin:
Hello, Larin with you, and today our guest is Sergey Pavlovich. Sergey Pavlovich is a carder in the past, who served his sentence for 10 years, who published a wonderful book "How I Stole a Million". Today we will find out how he stole a million dollars. He will also teach me how to make money on YouTube, because my income is completely incomparable with what he does with smaller numbers.
How, what and why we will find out today.
Carder:
Well, we will also talk about hackers, carders, prisons and everything else. And about drugs.
Larin:
In short, something prohibited in the Russian Federation.
Carder:
Entrepreneur, writer, who else, probably a blogger and an architect of ideas. That is, I just like this word, I read in Jobs's book his biography "Architect of Ideas". I just like structuring some ideas, growing them, probably, into businesses. But when they ask me about my main role, well, I don’t know, entrepreneurship is closest to me, but it so happened that I also wrote a book.
Larin:
Well, the range of ideas that you, business ideas, it’s just amazing. Especially, you know, there’s a cliché, a person served 10 years, you imagine such a person with sunken cheeks, with yellow pupils, actually a person who is looking for a job as a security guard, and here sits a successful entrepreneur, who has cashback, who has some phenomenal income on YouTube, and carding, are you not involved in carding now?
Carder:
Well, no, I haven’t been doing it for 5 years, and this is more, you know, this is more of a volitional activity, the influence of esotericism and other karma, let’s say, I’ve probably matured, I served. And at the same time, this is the influence of prison and a long term, I served, it turns out, only 10 years. The first time, I was in jail twice, and the first time I was in jail for two and a half years, but I didn't understand anything, I was in hothouse conditions, in a pretrial detention center in a normal hut with a DVD, with ganja, and for two and a half years it didn't teach me anything.
But I spent a year and four years at liberty, they basically took me for about the same thing, and I was already sitting there for 6 kopecks. The total amount was 10 years. And, of course, I just didn't want to go to jail. At my peak, I was earning 50-100 thousand dollars a month. I was 21 years old then.
And I worked several hours a day.
Larin:
Did it blow your mind then?
Carder:
No, I wouldn't say it blew your mind. It turns out that according to the verdict, I have damages of 36 million dollars.
Larin:
By the way, I heard that you didn't steal this money from residents of the CIS, who were these people, whose cards were these?
Carder:
These were, in general, a carder, why, there are hackers, naturally, we all know, there are those who write viruses, spammers of some kind, there is a general concept of cybercriminals, it is much broader, it unites everyone, and a carder is also a common cybercriminal specialty, a carder is those who steal from bank cards, from the word cards, well, a card, respectively, and we really did, at that time, we stole, I have been doing this for a very long time, probably how old am I, almost 38 years old, I did this for about 14 years.
And we really had a kind of code of honor at that time, and we did not steal from our own, it turns out, from residents of the CIS countries. Now this is not observed, naturally, now they steal everything that is lying around.
Larin:
Everyone from everyone. And before there were Robin Hoods, in short.
Carder:
I would not say that this is specifically such altruism or something from ethical standards, but there were three reasons. The first is, of course, ethical, well, stealing from our poor people, whom the state...
Speaker?:
Who, yes, are already underfed, actually.
Carder:
In 1991, yes, the state deceived, then Mavrodi deceived and so on, well, that is, sinful, let's say. The second reason is purely economic, well, what are you going to steal from him? 150 dollars that were transferred to his salary card? It will go to microloans. Well, in general, that is, there is nothing to steal, right? That is, in America, you steal 3, 5, 15 thousand dollars from a bank account at once with cards, especially if it is a credit card, and here you steal 150, well, 500 dollars, and the third reason is purely from the security sphere, when you steal in the States, there is a high chance that even if you do not do it, they will never find you, but if you steal from Wildberries, last year there was a wave literally across the Wildberries marketplace and they stole a lot there, they will find you faster, the same Avito, fraud is very well developed there now, there are some phenomenal numbers there, or Sberbank online, when they call you, they call me about twice a month and try to trick me into sending a text message from Sberbank.
Larin:
They have never called me, but my good friend's mother lost 450 thousand rubles, which were credit, that is, this money still needs to be paid back. By and large, these are social engineers, that is, it was not special knowledge, these are just social engineers. And he deceives, and keeps him in touch when the person is already on his way to the ATM, throws in the amount. Hurry, hurry up.
Carder:
Now they are so talentless, that is, you can call with a substituted number without any problems, the Internet is full of services and many channels have covered this topic, there it costs 300 or 500 rubles, you put it in and you call, you will have your mother's number to determine or Sberbank number 900. Seriously? Yes, it is no problem, they work and cost pennies, but I have never been called from such a number. And why does this happen? How is it, is this a gateway that sells or what, how does this work? But this is in an IP phone, just voice traffic over the Internet.
This is approximately from the same series, when I order official spam by SMS, from the database, I order through Megafon, I can substitute some number, a mobile phone, or I can write, I don't know, Larin, for example. This is approximately from the same series, and all this costs pennies, but I have never been called from such a number with 900, with BER, for example. I get calls from some idiotic scammers who simply call from a Russian number.
It was a revelation for me, most of them are in prison, I filmed on my channel on people about, I filmed a bank security guard, most of them are in prison, the second part is on the territory of Ukraine, that is, huge call centers and they call as real databases, leaked by collectors and so on, because Katya, my wife, called, they say that Alfa-bank, that is, she has Alfa, but in general, the social engineer and Rosmush started talking, 70% of Russians have Sberbank a priori, they call me, they start to act stupid, I understand that these are scammers, I turn on the speakerphone on the phone, the voice recorder on the computer and I start trolling them, the last time they called me how many more cards of our bank do you have there, I say about 64, they understand that I am in the subject, they swear at me and hang up, but this is a serious topic and if in principle you steal from your own citizens, the chance that you will be identified is much higher and Well, basically, this code of the part was formed from these three such pillars, these three postulates, which even with all its slightly affectedness and strainedness was observed then, but now it is not.
Larin:
Yes, now in general the institute of reputation, well, it is a related topic anyway, that is, people advertise privateering rates, that is, where there is money, they go there, they don’t care. It seems that people have access to bank databases, that is, again, the story of that woman, my friend’s mother, they seemed to know that she has specifically Alfa-Bank, and they seemed to specifically know her credit limit, that is, they pulled out the entire amount.
Carder:
The thing is that in the embassy space there is practically no responsibility for the leakage of personal data. So, I have 36 million in damages, but they included me in a group with the Americans, I knew some of them, I worked with some, I knew some personally, the damage in our joint criminal case was more than a billion dollars.
Larin:
Is this a real figure?
Carder:
Yes, over a billion.
Larin:
So, that group, roughly speaking, that community you were a part of, it stole a billion dollars in what period of time?
Carder:
More. Well, in a few years, somewhere around 2-3 years. We had a main guy, he got 20 years in the US, Albert Gonzales. And I, by analogy, I wanted to call my book earlier “One of Albert Gonzales’s Friends”, well, like one of Ushin’s friends. And the company that made the biggest leak, we stole cards, well, in general, we stole dumps. Dumps are, in principle, a card number, but what is recorded specifically on the chip on the magnetic strip of a bank card.
And if you just have the card number, you can… Where did I start? This is a direction in carding – this is called “stuff carding”, when you just know someone’s card number, for example, you created a fake online store of records or books, people buy, and you just collect. There weren't all these SMS messages before, you know, confirm. And now too. By the way, if you don't know, young viewers also try to steal from my cards, sometimes they even steal successfully.
The point is, the same AliExpress for a small amount and even for a more or less average one, you don't need an SMS, Amazon doesn't even need a CVV code.
Larin:
Do you understand? Buryak Why don't they take any security measures, complications, some kind of two-factor authentication?
Carder:
Maksimov Well, it's easier for them to just sort it out somehow. In general, there is a purely selfish reason, in America, many ATMs still count from a magnetic strip, although they are required to, but they directly say that the cost of replacing all ATMs in the country is many, ten times greater than our losses from annual fraud. It's just selfish, someday, of course, they will replace them.
Larin:
It's easier for them to keep some percentage of the lost money. In Russia, things are better with this.
Carder:
In Russia, I want to say, in general in the CIS, we have very progressive banks. That is, some Australian or American bank, there are no SMS, no 3D-Secure, Visa Verified, it just doesn’t exist there. And there are no advanced applications like ours. It’s safe to say that in Eastern Europe, the banking system in terms of quality, in terms of applications, it’s not reliable, of course, because the databases are stolen and there is almost no responsibility, but in terms of technology, we are much more ahead of the Americans, but there are laws there, there is responsibility there.
Here’s a company that allowed a leak of about 100 million dumps, we stole 150 from them, it was a large retail chain, there was Walmart and there was also a clothing chain, they were fined about 200 million, they were issued fines of dollars for not paying attention to security, you know, and just missed it.
We don't have anything like that and we don't expect it yet. But these databases you're talking about are traded by the insiders who work in these banks. Legislation, I often discuss this topic with journalists and law enforcement officers, the legislation in the CIS is more or less normal. It is basically unified, Belarusian legislation, I'm just from Belarus, it's generally very similar to Russian legislation, and if law enforcement practice was normal, and not like in authoritarian countries, that's what I don't like about the laws, it's most of all this kind of fairness, injustice, if If you or I broke the law, we'll sit there, buy a fine, pay something else, but if it was broken in relation to you, the authorities violated your property rights, evicted you for legal tasks, you will have practically no way to prove it. This doesn't work here, that is, law enforcement practice is terrible, the laws are more or less.
Larin:
You said somewhere that most often carders, at the time when you were doing this, were representatives of the CIS, and that people do this out of desperation, because they have no money, and then they see, they master computer technologies, they get into some processes, and they resort to fraud, because they have no money.
Carder:
I am absolutely convinced of this, and I tell all Western TV channels about this. Why? In my time, in the early 2000s, there were few cybercriminals, about 3,000 people, and it was such a cozy atmosphere, forums.
Speaker?:
And what years?
Carder:
It was the end of the 90s, and somewhere up until 2004, up until 2007, you could even say there were 3-4 thousand cybercriminals there. A cozy atmosphere on the forums, few scammers and everyone shared information with each other. Were there gatherings? There were, yes. There were gatherings and there was a large gathering in Odessa, like Vorovskaya, there were probably 40-50 people there, they still remember it. And we met in groups of 5-10 people, 7.
We met most often on vacations in Spain and went to Moscow. In short, we met in many cities, mainly on summer vacations, there were cybercriminals who work online with each other, that is, in the summer we meet somewhere, but at that time we were not afraid yet.
Larin:
There couldn't have been a raid, so you got together and banged it.
Carder:
Yes, there couldn't have been and we were not afraid of spies, as if they were embedded and showed their faces without problems, we hung out there, had all sorts of orgies, there was cocaine and other things. Banned in the territory of the Russian Federation. And not only the Russian Federation, now the number of cybercriminals is over 100 thousand, that is, carding forums, if then there were 1, 2, 3, I can count them, literally even 1, 2, 3, now there are about 30 carding forums and the total number of registered on them is somewhere around 1.5-2 million.
Larin: Carder:
They are not on the deep web, they are right here on the open Internet?
Carder:
Well, most of them are not even banned by Roskomnadzor. Of course, I can have nicknames on 10 forums or more. But I make a clear conclusion that now the number of cybercriminals in the CIS is somewhere around 100-150 thousand active, and we had 3-4 thousand. Why so many? And why is it mainly Eastern Europe? Because I have never, never in my life met or worked with a cybercriminal from prosperous Switzerland, the Netherlands, there were a few in the UK, there are many in America, they are all sorts of rabble, Romanians, Moldovans, there is enough of all that, there are many in Spain, but these are mainly Romanians. But never from the very, very few from Germany, in Switzerland in general, from France there are very few Arabs, I have practically never met them. And we have no social mobility at all. It seems like the remnants of that Soviet education, especially technical, they are still somewhere and this is forced poverty, it makes the brain work, that is, we can come up with a Russian-language, some kind of fraudulent scheme, but we have no social elevators.
It is impossible for us, I came up with something or you, or he came up with a brilliant startup and we cannot get financing, we do not have long, long money in the country. And it turns out that when an entrepreneur does not find an opportunity to realize himself, he becomes a fraudster. And in my case it happened, I have never been involved in any kind of fraud, I have not stolen money on the Internet, it happened by accident, on a website, I was doing some kind of commerce on the Internet, I was selling some sneakers, Internet access, and I accidentally saw on a website, on a classified ad on an Internet bulletin board, that credit cards were being sold. That's it, I accidentally got into this. Cards, by the way, back then, now they cost 20-50-100 dollars for one card, the number of just a card that allows you to order something in a Western online store.
Larin:
Does it really still work like that? Just a number without a holder name, without an expiration date?
Carder:
No, they are usually sold, sold as a complete set. That is, you have a billing address, the payer's address, his social security number, if necessary, then it just cost, if now 20-50-100 dollars, in my time it cost half a dollar, a dollar was the retail price, the retail price was 1 dollar. Now you have to bother to enter some kind of thing or a laptop from Amazon, for example, enter it and it comes to you.
Even if you have a great card with money on it, because you need to bother, pick a relevant IP address there, that is, for example, if you have a Detroit card owner, there is such-and-such a state and that's it, your IP should almost be from this street figuratively, that is, although all those topics that we were stirring up back then, this is called stuff carding, they steal PayPal, the most unprotected payment system in the world, with the most idiotic anti-fraud, sometimes with my legal stick, I can't pay for something, the anti-fraud torments me for some reason, but they steal from it the most, and all these topics that worked 20 years ago, that work now, the same topics, you just need to adapt them a little, it has become more difficult to enter them, but the pros worked as they did then, and they still work. So what did you order from the first stolen card? The Barnes and Noble website, it was a book chain, we ordered, there were these gift sets of discs, they were Pink Floyd, 11 discs, one The Wall had this gift version, it cost 140 dollars, I think, we were getting them for a hundred, that is, in general, it was a very liquid product.
Larin:
Did you order it to your address or was it a drop?
Carder:
There were mostly drops, there were drops, drops are such front men from among distant acquaintances, alcoholics of some kind, and they were usually ordered to do things on them, of course, but then the cops were simply not savvy in this area, in some countries, in Russia, until recently, there were still no laws allowing people to be prosecuted for cybercrime, the maximum they hung was 159 fraud, which is quite difficult to prove, now of course everything has changed and they put people in jail normally, but again, this is a purely Russian story, in Belarus I sat for 10 years for some bullshit, I did not commit, did not cause any damage to citizens or organizations of Belarus, all the episodes for which I was in prison were against the USA and Western Europe. And the injustice of my entire personal situation is that I can’t go anywhere now.
The USA does not recognize... And you are closed, are you banned from leaving the USA? Well, that’s only Russia and Belarus for me. I can’t even go to Ukraine. Because the US considers that you have served time only if you have served time on their territory, and sometimes they also recognize the Great British USSR. But they don't care that I have already served time in Belarus for their episodes.
Larin:
But maybe your situation will change somehow? Is there some, well, expiration of years, there, I don't know, a statute of limitations?
Carder:
No, there is nothing. There is simply an option to somehow reach some kind of compromise with them, let's say, sit for six months or a year, maybe work on them somehow, to knock there or again. Well, to consult. Well, how can I knock now, if I am no longer in the know there. But to consult, yes, it is possible to somehow help strengthen banking security, the security of the United States as a whole, and we have such conversations with them periodically, it's just that so far I am not satisfied with their conditions and the lack of some kind of guarantee, i.e.
When I get an acceptable guarantee for myself, and when I need to eat in Russia, for example, then maybe I will go there.
Larin:
What did you experience when you were able to use someone else's card for the first time?
Carder:
This happened when the goods had already arrived, i.e. you entered, there were cases, there were funny cases, you enter the goods, you just do many-many orders per day, something is confirmed, something comes, something doesn't come. And I remember, I had a big argument with one guy, I was completely wrong there, I admit something there, and I get 100 roses. I come home from college, my mother says, there's some bouquet for you on the balcony, there are such roses there, somewhere around a meter sixty, huge burgundy roses.
I say, how many are here? And there's a real grab, she says, 100, and imagine my reaction, I think that this enemy of mine, he just sent me, well, like wine, good thing it wasn't a horse's.
Larin:
A head, like in that movie.
Carder:
That's roughly the emotions I experienced, and only later I saw the business card already inserted there, and there was a flower de e, that is, I ordered it myself somewhere, maybe a month ago, I ordered those flowers from a second credit card, maybe I wanted to give them to some lady, they arrived. Well, I just experienced it, there was no such joy, everyone there thinks oh, the money, some big joy there, it's an ordinary office job, if then yes, we had a chance to earn there, well, an ordinary carder then earned 3-5 thousand dollars a month, me and about 100 other people in the world, maybe 50-100, we earn up to 100 thousand dollars a month.
Now it's all turning into more of an office job, because they've jailed almost all of these top hackers, most of them Russian and I personally know most of them, they're sitting in the US, the ones who hacked all these databases, and there are practically no card numbers, this has affected the price, well, compare a dollar then and 20-50 now. And there's no quality, you buy a card for 50 dollars and it's probably already been resold 20 times.
That's why now, I've told everyone a hundred times and I've written about it in my book and I've said it on YouTube, don't just don't go into this, because it's comparable to an office job in terms of income and plus you're constantly risking your freedom.
Larin:
The risks have increased.
Carder:
They increased because the cops got smarter, you know. And I sat for 10 years, it would seem, but the damage there, okay, the damage was 36 million, I alone in the group had more than a yard, but I counted, there was nothing to do in prison, I usually counted how much cash I personally put in my pocket, well, all my criminal income is only 1 and 2 million dollars, imagine 1
2 million dollars and I had to sit out 10 years for it when they didn’t catch you, like, well, it’s cool, such an amount, but 10…
Larin:
It’s not worth it, if you spread it out over time.
Carder:
Well, 120 thousand a year, yes, only. That is, I’m earning legally now, yes, I earn less per month, but I’m not worried that they’ll put me in jail again, I’m afraid of it, I don’t want to.
Larin:
By the way, I was afraid that they would put me in jail, paranoia often rolled in over the years, when you had not yet been caught the first time, when the money was coming in, you understood that it was someone else's money. Or did you have such courage that "yeah, what about me, I'm like Kevin Mitnick.
Carder:
Well, I was young, you see, money usually comes to us at a very young age, I started at about 14, somewhere around 19-20 I was already earning significant amounts, and if paranoia had haunted me, I would not have been in jail, I think, because my brother, who by chance turned out to be an accomplice in all my affairs and is still wanted since 2008, is on the Interpol of the US police. Is your brother wanted by Interpol now?
Yes, my cousin. He is hiding. I am also on Interpol, by the way, still. I'm in Interpol, I don't know what kind of mark he has, but I have a US wanted list and an arrest mark in Interpol. You know, not to tell where you need to go, but an arrest mark. That's why I can't go anywhere, and I can't handle this. But it turns out that my brother has been wanted since 2008, he's never been in jail, because his paranoia was extreme then. If his VPN fell off, he'd never go online to do anything.
That is, he was always paranoid, he's never been in jail, even if he was wanted because of me, but I was.
Larin:
And the second time too, the second time when you got out, you started doing it again, weren't you paranoid either?
Carder:
Well, the second time I did practically nothing, I was no longer involved in crime, that is, they gave me a much longer sentence, they gave me 10 years, I committed much less than anything. But there is a funny moment, here is the difference between the law enforcement system, for example, in the USA and our post-Soviet one, this is a very significant remark, ours have to clean up, well, due to the small staff, small funding, due to the large number of criminals in these areas, ours have to clean up some kind of complete crisis there.
There is a statement or there are 10 statements or the FBI sent documents on me, for example. And the Americans, they basically use the tactics that they used to fight mafia clans since the 70s. They infiltrate ... - They lead shorter than you. - They are not interested in small fish, yes, they infiltrate organized groups and eliminate the leaders.
This is their tactic and 4 years, I thought this was a client, he buys dumps from me, according to his legend he was a native of Thailand living in the USA, and I thought he was one of our best clients, always paid on time, did not ask for discounts, sent some laptops as a gift, expensive branded perfumes, and that's it. And I understand that now I know that this is a US Secret Service agent, Richard, I don't remember his last name anymore.
Larin:
Rat, human factor, you were caught on this.
Carder:
And he developed me for four years, it turns out. But all these gifts, yes, I understand that he did not pay for them out of his own pocket, but bought them at public expense.
Larin:
The FBI sent them to you for your engagement party.
Carder:
The US Secret Service. It is engaged in the fight against fraud, cybercrime and the protection of the highest US officials, as the presidential service simply with investigative functions. So he was this agent, for four years he gathered my social circle here, you understand.
Larin:
This is the second time, yes, an introduction for four years, and the first time, how did you get busted, how did they catch you?
Carder:
He was the first time, the thing is that he was already present in my life, and moreover, he lured me out to all sorts of resort and island countries several times. They cannot arrest us on the territory of post-Soviet countries, because there is no one from Donovaya Dacha, yes, Russia does not extradite its citizens, Belarus does not extradite its citizens to America. In fact, there is no legal possibility for America to get me from Russia or Belarus. That's why they lure you out or watch you, where you went on vacation somewhere, they usually already know who you are, what you are, what you are involved in.
And they just got caught on your Instagram. There's this brave Dmitry Smelyanets, he had some serious group in Russia on counter-strike, he's a very famous guy. And he has an accomplice Vova Drinkman, Syktyvkar Skorpa, I think he's his number one hacker in the world. And that's how they got caught, they just went to Holland, the cops had been watching them for about 8 years, probably since my first arrests. They were watching them and he just boldly took a photo in Amsterdam, there's this inscription in white letters, the heart of Amsterdam, I love Amsterdam.
He took a photo next to her, posted it on Instagram or Facebook and that's it, the American cops, watching them, immediately realized that they were in Amsterdam. It's clear that the hotel was only 5-star, there would be a ton of cash and they called around, where they were staying. And that very night they were arrested, that is, together with the Dutch police. That's the human factor that's the strongest. And this agent, he was constantly luring me out, luring me to Thailand, something fell through.
I didn't go to the Dominican Republic for the second time on paper, and something fell through for him too, but I would have been sitting, yes, on American territory then.
Larin:
What would you like to say to Richard if he's watching us now?
Carder:
Richard, I remembered, I slightly blabbed about Ryan, Ryan Knisley. I remembered this bastard, okay, Ryan Knisley, I would say that Ryan, you're a hottie, you did your job great.
Larin:
Ryan Knisley, did I get a star, what do you think?
Carder:
Most likely, yes. There's no such anger after the fact, that is, it's a cat and mouse game, they have their job, we have ours. That is, when TSK, I was supposed to have an interview with him on the channel, they just dumped him in prison, it's outrageous, but when they caught you for your beauty, proved your guilt, in principle, albeit with some violations, but they caught you, in fact, for yours, for theirs, as it were, you can serve time, well, I would have told him that he's a hottie.
Larin:
Ten years, that's a huge term, that's what it's like, what is it like in general, did you experience an information famine, did you follow what was happening in culture, in music, in literature, in the mass media in general?
Carder:
You can probably divide prison into the first impression and later, when it's already routine, when you've already had a long term there, when the trial has already passed, let's say, up to here, you have some hope of breaking free, and then you go into the cell, I can give you some advice, I see all sorts of criminal personalities coming and writing under videos everywhere, I don't know why I watch this, but I know that I live in Russia, just in case I watch a video on how to enter a cell, this is our reality, none of us is immune from prison.
Larin:
Like in a tram, half sitting, half shaking, nothing has changed since the Soviet Union, when this meme appeared.
Carder:
Or Basta, half the country is sitting, half the country is guarding. Any of us can go to jail tomorrow, you may never break the law in your life and never bribe even the traffic cops, you'll stop, knock someone down at a crosswalk, knock down the prosecutor's son there, you'll be right, but you'll be wrong, the main thing is not to be afraid of anything there in prison and don't watch those idiotic TV series about prison, especially the series "Zone" on NTV, forget about it, never watch it, a normal person is fine there, yes, in the zone, well of course it was scary when you went into the cell, for example, well, I was expecting something, some rituals, idiotic registration, like they'll throw you a towel, you'll pick it up, you won't pick it up, you'll pick it up, that's long gone, nothing, maybe it's left somewhere in juvenile detention, because there's excessive cruelty in juvenile detention, where there are juvenile criminals, there's nothing like that and just, well, of course, it's desirable not to lie, not to throw fluff on yourself, there is such a prison expression, well, to show off, to tell something that didn't happen, well, you just came in, introduced yourself, they pulled you in, you don't need to talk about sex, because everyone thinks they're offended roosters, but roosters know many words, they're called offended, well, so as not to oppress them there, because roosters are actually very useful, some are not necessarily some kind of pedophiles, but a pedophile is a humiliated rooster, offended behind bars, there are no options at all, as for rape, many people think that they also end up in a harem, they become roosters, no, they don't, rape is not the same as rape, a woman could have told you herself, that is, she could have given it to you with consent and then written a statement, extorting money, something else, or you refused to marry her, that's all, and there is such a bit of wildness, just talking about sex, they generally need to be stopped by such thieves' runs, decrees, but they can do all sorts of these cruel ones, unclean people watching the camera of a young prisoner, a convict, ask Like, what are you doing there, like with your wife, did you lick her or not? That's it, you say you licked her, straight to the harem, no options there. Same thing there, don't even think about such things, well, your wife sucked you off there, well, here it's clear that you live with her, kiss her, that's it, also to the harem. Well, you just need to stop talking about sex.
Larin:
You did your time in Belarus, are prisons in Belarus and Russia similar?
Carder:
In general, in the CIS as a whole. Of course, they are similar, they are even similar in appearance, yes, we have this camp system, the camp system, well, in general in the States, for example, the prison system in other countries, in Europe, prisons, we have camps, a camp is just like a camp, there are separate barracks, well, GULAG is just all the camps, it was called a correctional colony, earlier both TKR and correctional labor.
Larin:
This is a strange name, correctional, does prison correct anyone at all? Or is it still the execution of punishment? In general, in developed countries, the effectiveness of penitentiary correctional systems is considered by the number of recidivism. In our post-Soviet countries, the percentage of recidivism of repeated flights to prison is 70-80, it is huge. Abroad, especially in Western Europe, Norway, Brevik and I laugh, oh, wow, he shot 70 people there and he had a separate suite, a computer, a gym, but the correctional system there, the percentage of recidivists is 2-3 times lower than ours. And ours is simply a punitive system, a retributive one, yes. Larin: What kind of people did you meet while you were there? What kind of people were they? Were there those with whom you could have a heart-to-heart chat, discuss some innovations, technologies, I don’t know, something intellectual? Carder: You mostly meet them in pretrial detention centers, because there are all sorts of businessmen sitting there, and officials, and customs officers, and just bandits. Larin: Fraudsters, probably, on a large scale, that’s not the most, probably. Carder: Let's say I've always found a common language with organized crime groups, because these are groups from the 90s, there are already wealthy people, established, adults, they just take 20 years after the crime, by the way, sometimes they give more than for murder. I've met people whose maximum crime was throwing acid on someone's car, but this is racketeering, this is the 90s, this is organized crime, all countries are afraid of it, that is, Lukashenko is afraid of organized crime, Putin is afraid, because people can do something, not one after another, these are groups. Larin: It's all connected, again because of social lifts people start, here's the situation again, yes, in St. Petersburg crime has increased because incomes have fallen, some muggings have started right away, that is, again your incomes are falling, there are no social lifts, people go into some kind of banditry, into organized banditry, and as a result there is a lot of crime, a lot of police per capita, in our countries there is a very high percentage of cops, both in Belarus and in Russia.
Carder:
In Belarus, there are more. By a lot? Belarus has the highest rate in the world. That is, in Belarus, according to official estimates, there are 1,442 police officers of all kinds per 100 thousand people. 1,442. In my calculations, I add judges, prosecutors, internal troops and special forces, all sorts of additional services, and I operate with a figure for myself of about 2,000.
That is, every 50th security officer. Is every 60th security officer in Russia counted here? No, less.
Larin:
Less? Less. If you count, for example, the Russian National Guard, all that. Well, maybe. I just haven’t seen such a high figure in Russia, but it’s possible. But in Belarus, there are 2 thousand per 100 thousand people. In developed countries, there are now 300 special services of all kinds per 100 thousand people. 300 and 2 thousand. In the Soviet Union, there were 200 in general. The authorities. But here there is so much police not because there is a lot of crime, because the special services here, the police, the Russian Guard and everything else are the support of the current government, both in Belarus and in Russia, that is why there are so many of them. Larin: How did you get information over these 10 years? Carder: In general, it is not easy to sit in prison, of course, but I was saved by the fact that I had a fairly large stash. When I went to prison, I had 100-200 thousand dollars in stash there, and how did these stashes form at all, did I then spend 3-5 thousand dollars a month on my family, on myself, which I spend now with a smaller income. And this saved me enough, because money is needed for a transfer, expensive lawyers, to sort out something with the investigation somewhere, to delay some mobile phone somewhere, sports nutrition, to sort out a gym. But I want to tell you, if I hadn't had money and some connections and just the gift of gab to find common ground with the legions and the thieves, with everyone, I would have 100% come out as you roughly described, that is, with yellow, rotten teeth, a broken psyche, and so on. And even with all this, that I was sitting in fucking awesome conditions, one might say, although I was sitting in the best zone in Belarus, in the worst, I experienced both sides of the coin, even with all this, in my sixth year of my second prison term I was starting to go crazy, honestly. I was just walking around the local area, I understood, I had been sitting for five and a half years, I understood that I would go a little nuts. And music saved me then, I walked around, humming four songs, this was Adam Lambert, one song, then Jared Leto’s “30 Seconds to Mars”, and there was also some “Don’t Fear Me” sung by some woman, well, I don’t remember, in short, I made a list of the fourth one and posted it.
Carder:
Yes, it was music that saved me, otherwise I would have been released as a psychopath without money and without music, probably, and with my health undermined, both mental and physical. I was saved by the fact that I spent most of my term with a mobile phone, because I was writing a book in the zone, and it came out, when else would I have to sit, I still have 3 years to sit, it came out, that is, I was able to write it by hand on a mobile phone, hand it over to the publisher, they printed it at their own expense, I did all this in the zone, that is, the mobile phone saved me, and then, when I was transferred for a number of reasons to the toughest zone in the country, I could not, naturally, use mobile communications, it can be delayed there, paid for, corrupt someone in the industrial zone, the colony, or come to an agreement with some cop, or just not for money out of sympathy, you are friends with him, let's say. But there, if they had frisked my cell phone, I wouldn't have gotten 15, 30, 50 days in solitary confinement, but I would have gotten a couple more years to my term.
It's not the zone itself that kills me more, not the deprivation of freedom itself, this insanity. A round collar is allowed, a floor collar is not allowed, seasoning is not allowed, bouillon cubes are allowed, for some reason, Galina Blanka, yes. Knorr comes, they may not let you in, because the cop who receives the package and his wife only knows Galina Blanka and him, but Knorr is not, these are not bouillon cubes, and deodorants are not allowed and so on, well, that sort of thing.
Larin:
Well, in short, if they want, they can rot you, if you cause some kind of antipathy, there's a screw boss, then come on.
Carder:
Well, plus the information hunger, of course, it's worse than the physical one, your task there is to make the degenerate obedient, so that you stupidly go to the industrial area, clean up after, there's work there, they don't pay you there like at a normal enterprise here, although according to the labor code you should be paid the same, that in places of imprisonment the salary, if you don't understand, behind bars, both in Belarus and in Russia, it is half a dollar one, five dollars a month, you need it there like a slave in the middle of nowhere on this traffic jam.
Larin:
A month and a half bucks?
Carder:
And what can you do, are there some stores there, can you buy? Well, a kiosk, a prison one, there are cigarettes, notebooks, envelopes, well, you can buy something to eat, but that is to say that only tough goats earn 50-100 dollars in the zone, those are the quartermasters, the foremen. You don't have to snitch, you're just a foreman, you're responsible for the prisoners going to work, you urge them on with flattery, with threats, someone coaxes them, you know, they beat them up, just so your team fulfills and exceeds the norm, sews these mittens.
Larin:
A collaborator, in short.
Carder:
Well, roughly, policemen.
Larin:
I understand that a lot has changed, the world is dynamically changing all the time, as it seems to us, those who were not so much distanced from society. What was the first thing you saw, what changed, when you got out?
Carder:
In short, what has changed since the "ten"?
Larin:
Yes, yes.
Carder:
What's wrong? If I were sitting in the "ten" in Japan, I would go out and there would already be spaceships flying there instead of cars, but in Belarus, for example, nothing has changed, because it became simple, they built a national library, in my opinion, not very beautiful and illuminated the facades of the central streets, it became more elegant. The president of the USA is the same, salaries have become smaller, well, that is, real purchasing power, that is, if before 100 dollars in the 90s this family could eat for a month.
A family of three on 100 dollars in the 90s.
Larin:
Could a family eat for 100 dollars? Yes, in the 90s. A whole month. Well, in this regard, nothing has changed. Technologies, I just didn't lag behind them, I read a lot of different magazines, when I didn't have a mobile phone anymore. I read a different set of magazines, and they were like Popular Mechanics, Men's Health, i.e. from different spheres, there was Masland Fitness, I pumped up there in the zone a little more, Playboy, i.e. Forbes. Larin: What is Playboy for? Carder: Playboy is just a versatile magazine, it has literary columns, and it simply reviews both technology and science. Larin: Now you understand, guys, what to tell your mom if you find it under your pillow somewhere. In general, write down the list, the list is really good. Carder: I read approximately this list and thanks to it, in principle, I didn't lag behind. I also subscribed to several computer magazines of all kinds, I was already getting to know the world of applications, I understood that the future somehow belongs to them, well, that's what I also liked. Crypto appeared and applications got such a boom when I was already released. That is, I had modern phones in prison, I had a Nokia 97, in general there was a mini-computer and all sorts of early smartphones, yes, also based on Windows. Larin: Except for technology, the fact that the mustachioed are still in power. Carder: Yes, essentially, nothing has changed. Even in the world of crime, carding, all the same topics that worked, they, as I already said, with minor modifications, continue to work. Larin: Youth. Six years is a long time. That is, if you leave a person at 12, and you come to him at 18, this is already a sexually mature member of society who can vote. Naturally, for ...
Carder:
Of course, against. We are getting older and it seems to me, naturally, that the youth is getting dumber. Perhaps it is subjective, perhaps it is. Why do I judge this with confidence? Because the first video that I built on the channel, on my People Pro, was with a stashman. You can’t do that, you can’t use prohibited substances and even talk about it, probably now. But it, in principle, gave such a serious boost to my channel, but very quickly, literally within a few weeks. This video was banned by Roskomnadzor in the territory of the Russian Federation and I read a bunch of degenerate comments under it.
These are the first haters that I encountered on YouTube, I was really upset somewhere, then after a day I got used to it, I was simply mocked somewhere, but I realized that this generation, unlike all my other videos, was watched by young people. I realized that it was so degenerate. Larin: Or outstanding gentlemen. Carder: I try to draw some positive conclusion from each video, that this is not how it should be done, because I said, look, this stash man, he was lucky, he was not caught stashing drugs, and he did not go to prison for 15 years or 10 years at the age of 20-21, but you should not do this, because at the peak of his activity he earned 2.5 thousand dollars a month, and I say that a mechanic at a service station can earn that kind of money, and I personally know mechanics who earn 5 thousand dollars, these are painters from God who do body repair, they earn, and 90% of the comments were what an ass I am and show me a service station where a mechanic can earn 2.5 thousand. They can, they can earn. Yes, they can. Of course, this is not a lot of money. Of course, not everyone earns, but some earn even more. What I mean is that you should not risk Larin: your life for such an amount. The risk is so great, of course. And freedom. Carder: Who is at risk. It's not worth the effort, it's stupid. They don't read anything. So many people discuss some books, I constantly discuss fiction, some technical books, books about business, about marketing, which I read in my life in prison, I read a lot of things and I've been reading since childhood under the covers. I'm telling you, most young people, those who are now, I'm talking about those who are now eighteen minus, that's the generation, eighteen years younger, and many say that your book was the first one I read after the ABC book, after the alphabet.
And what did they write? They wrote, I said, I try to make each of my videos, People of different specialties come to my channel and shoplifters come, and growers, again an organization banned in Russia, and pimps, porn stars, scammers, car thieves and businessmen, among other things.
They have such a degenerate lifestyle, their parents feed them, but they don't want to, they have no ambition, that's why we have this, as you say, generation Z, I think we have, yes, millennials, we didn't have enough to eat, we had nothing, we have ambitions and a desire to do something, our parents couldn't give us. But those who are young now, they don't want anything. They don't even have the ability to fuck a chick, he'll lie there on the couch, play some game on the Internet.
Their parents feed them, sing. They have no ambitions, they have no desire to learn or develop somehow. And against this background, if some outstanding young man asks me something, I have advice, well, everyone knows that I read every comment, I just launched it a little now, I personally read every comment on YouTube through YouTube Studio, yes, and I answer almost everyone, and I always try to give some advice and support.
And finishing this topic of crime, for example, I want to say that it has changed, probably, crime has become more unprofitable, the risks are higher, the profitability is several times less for a number of objective and subjective reasons, the probability.
Larin:
To sit down more.
Carder:
Higher, yes. The cops have learned, people have started snitching more. Here, as Dovlatov has a brilliant phrase, we unanimously curse comrade Stalin and, of course, for good reason. And yet I want to ask, who wrote 4 million denunciations, and let's not forget this. And despite the lack of social elevators, it is now easier to realize yourself in business, firstly, it is easier to get some knowledge, a bunch of different courses, we will not take
InfoBis, yes, it sells air.
Larin:
If it is free, you just google and find that information, there is simply an ocean of it, put in the effort.
Carder:
Websites for learning Photoshop and so on.
Larin:
Any specialty. Programming. Any schoolchild can learn, on the most banal example of this YouTube network, yes, any schoolchild can learn to edit, well, probably in a maximum of a week to the level at which top bloggers edit. So take contracts.
Carder:
I have the youngest editor, he is 17 years old, I sometimes use him when the main ones are away, sick. It is easier to educate yourself, of course, but they do not want to, they just have such a parasitic lifestyle.
Larin:
You know, what I associate this with, in short, with a shift in the focus of the opportunity to earn money in the medical field, in short, I made a separate video about this about the cult of luxury, the cult of money and the envy that follows from this, that is, people see that everyone is flexing, everyone is saying that they have a shit ton of money, cars, diamonds, everything that is possible, everything that is inaccessible to them, and they see it like, fuck, I can’t get it, but I want it so much.
They want it right away, you know, as if not through thorns to the stars, fuck, but straight from rags to riches. They do not want to make an effort, the media pumps them up partly too. Because, I don’t know, my family is like two locomotives, they just carry you. In the 90s it was very hard, there wasn’t enough money, we ate what we could find, roughly speaking, berries, mushrooms, my father brought a duck, killed a goose, you know, that kind of thing.
There’s no such thing now, now anyway there’s an abundance of food, it exists. And you don’t see examples, you don’t seem to face the fact that your basic needs are not encouraged, I hope you understand what I’m talking about, that is, you have to constantly work on this, you have to constantly do some things to improve yourself, so that later you have at least some income.
Carder:
Well, in this regard, prison helps a lot, because at 21 I had all sorts of expensive cars, branded clothes, well, after prison I slept, damn, I slept in isolation cells, you sleep, outside there it’s minus 20, minus 30 degrees in February, I was often locked in isolation cells behind a mobile phone in the winter, you sleep on the floor, because the bunk is fastened to the wall in the isolation cell during the day, and it turns out that it comes off, but the boards are so crooked there, they are like this, it’s impossible to sleep on it, as a result you sleep on a concrete floor, you sleep, while outside you have minus 26, minus 30, you have such cracks in the windows, you just stuff all the toilet paper, you stuff all the clothes, so that this window, and I already lived in this shit, you can say I slept on this dirty floor, well, so what have I already seen, but that is Well, where is this sick Syaha now, it won't make me better, clothes, that is, don't look at these bloggers, 90% of them may not be worth the finger of your parents who raised you for 90 years, they fucking got everything just like that, so easily, just by coincidence, someone successfully flashed their face on this TV and on YouTube, as they say, and that's it, and don't chase these clothes, it's all superficial. Gucci won't make you better.
If you're a vegetable, if you're a loser in life, well, a bad person, even if you don't know, dress in Dior, it won't make you better.
Larin:
If you can't steal a donkey, you can't make a horse. In general, guys, strive and develop, and all the money in the world, all the opportunities in the world, all the women in the world, if you need them, they are, roughly speaking, already at your feet. Just make an effort to get there. The Internet has opened up huge opportunities, we lived and grew up in times when these communication channels existed, or did not exist at all, or were so narrow, so limited.
Carder:
It opened up opportunities, but they don’t use them.
Larin:
Yes, because it’s been there since birth, it’s been there since birth, and the Internet is, accordingly, you only consume entertainment from there.
Carder:
A4 turned on.
Larin:
Well, yes. Did you mention some figure, how much, according to your estimates, A4 earns?
Carder:
Well, considering that it has a youth audience and so on, but from all sources of monetization, I think it still gets 200-300 thousand.
Larin:
200, even on a small scale, yes, 200 thousand dollars a month.
Carder:
Let’s even take 100, the bare minimum. Let’s take into account that its audience is not teenagers, as I thought, and you’re talking even younger, nonsense, well, 100 thousand dollars a month. Do nothing. It's like carding, like you did in the best times of earning. But for me carding is generally a crime, guys, it's not easy money. Often from the cops, from lawyers, from journalists there is such an opinion that crime is easy money, but it's not easy at all.
When I was actively involved in crime, they could wake me up at any time, day or night, because the buyers were in Southeast Asia, Turkey, in different time zones, all, I had to know English even then, that is, I spoke several languages. And this is really hellish work, you have a lot of responsibility. On one hand, they are drumming on you, writing somewhere, and you are still walking under this wet sword. I can agree that crime is fast money, but it is not easy, it is as hard work as any other.
Although, yes, Dima and I just said that there are no social elevators in the country, in our Soviet space, but if you have some kind of brilliant idea, you can make some kind of application, like a masquerade, my Belarusian compatriots made these masks, sold them on Facebook for a hundred million dollars, you can make such an application, money for your idea, you can find this, there is such a 3F, in general in the startup movement, in the investor movement there is 3F - Friends, Family and Fools, that is, family, fools and friends, and you attract money from them, if you believe in your idea, checked it, it is viable, you can attract money from family, friends and fools, you can use crowdfunding, there are platforms, in Russia it is planeta ru, boom starter, but Russian crowdfunding practically does not work, it works only if you, like with books, if you already have an army of fans, that is, musicians can collect money for an album there, but if you you go to some Western platform, there are many, for example, someone came up with an awesome backpack, from which it is impossible to steal a laptop, for example, and you go with this prototype of the backpack to indigogo or better to kickstarter and just put it there, describe it in English, shoot a video, your idea and that's it, they will donate to you.
That is, crowdfunding, well, please, there are enough ways to attract financing, so do not even go into crime, because I am saying, that is, the game is not worth the candle now and when you get there, yes, like in Belarus for drugs, I was in jail with these, with many who were for drugs, they have already worn down so much that people, well, the average term for drugs is somewhere between 8-12 years now. We are talking about Belarus now. And the saddest thing with all this is that there they go to the picket fence for 10 years.
Everyone is distributing, but I know about two thousand who were in jail for drug charges, in a pretrial detention center, in the zone, I crossed paths in the second zone.
Larin:
What kind of people are they? Age?
Carder:
Well, they are mostly young people, from 20 to 25.
Larin:
Well, that is, roughly speaking, the age of my channel's audience. Guys, you know, it's like death, it's something that happens to others. Going to jail for drugs is something that happens to others. No. It can happen to any of you.
Carder:
I barely survived 10 years, and I was already a developed person when I went to prison, with money, with brains, with connections. The criminal world knew me. And I really almost went crazy. And I lost my health, of course. And to go to prison for drug addiction in Belarus means that you will sleep on the third tier, on the bunk. That is, you will have a profuchet, if, for example, ordinary prisoners had two checks in the morning and in the evening, 8 am and 8 pm, for example, then if you have drugs, this is a profuchet, and every 2 hours they will pull you, line up your group of drug addicts on the parade ground and count you.
And plus, working in an industrial zone, it will be the hardest, the norm there, there metal, for example, you clean, they bring some cables that have lain in the ground for a thousand years.
Larin:
Non-ferrous metal.
Carder:
Non-ferrous metal. They bring some engines. Oh, I took apart the doors, this is not the most pleasant procedure, guys. So, if, for example, my metal delivery quota is 15 kilograms per day, well, and I want to say that it is greatly inflated, by the way, in reality I did about 6 kilograms. Here, give me a knife, give me metal, I will do 6 kilograms in a day. The quota according to the documents is, say, 15 kilograms. You come to the parole court, yes, they ask the shop foreman how much metal he delivers, he says, say, 6 kilograms per day.
He says, and the quota is 15, you work lousy, you are unworthy of parole, go. So you will not be jailed for three leagues, the three of you, you will not do 15.
Larin:
It's hard, no, try to take apart the engine, first you take apart the braid here, and first you take apart the body, saw off the braid, then you rip out each one with pliers, it's hard. You'll collect, well, a kilogram from the engine, maybe I just did it myself, well, in my youth, I had no money.
Carder:
Try that, well, it's crazy. But in the zone, those specially trained ones take apart this engine, they take it apart with one key and one head, they take apart this entire engine in half a day. The metal for you, it's not like the cops brought you the metal, gave you a knife and that's it, well, clean it, right? It has to be obtained. A copper-colored car arrives, opens the body and unloads it. The gates are closed, you stand in the workshop in the local area on the street, smoking there.
The car unloaded, drove off, the gates opened. Fuck, we're filming this in St. Petersburg, this ice battle, it starts on this Lake Chudskoye. Can you imagine, they run, fall, run along the top of Lake Ladoga, and they grab together, there are often cases when you and I grab the same piece of metal, I'll pull it and fight at the same time. And that's it, well, really, that is, maybe even a knife.
Larin: Carder:
Stick it out of this metal. In short, don't fight for metal, don't smoke weed, don't buy drugs, you used drugs. Before going to prison, I was only familiar with weed and hashish. And in Belarus, the prices for it were crazy. Really, that is, when in St. Petersburg, in Moscow, a gram of ganja or a substance banned in Russia or hashish was sold for 10 dollars, in Belarus it was 40-80. And I tried this, well, rarely, I don't have any of these desires there, well, connections, I smoked somewhere by chance in companies. In prison, I tried amphetamine. Larin: Guys, don't use amphetamine at all, it will destroy almost all systems in your body, from your teeth to your immune system. You don't need it, it will drive you crazy. Just like grass. Grass is crazy. I don't smoke now, guys. I smoked weed, I admit it, and I can tell you that my life became unimaginably better after I got completely clean. Weed is romanticized in the media, and it's terrible, but you know, like few people know that the best stuff was written when people were clean. Weed is not a drug, weed is considered organic, right? That's a complete lie. Weed gets you hooked really hard, weed demoralizes you, you lose motivation, you close yourself off. People who were sociable and could meet a person on the street, talk to a girl on the subway, they lock themselves at home. This is how people usually take drugs, get acquainted with weed. At first, you smoke somewhere in company. The social factor. Well, yeah, maybe once a month, maybe once every two months. Then you get together with some guys specifically to smoke weed, you smoke weed. Then the worst thing begins, you smoke at home alone. And then you just smoke at home, more often, more, you have tolerance, you lose everything, and it's not even about money. The effects that romanticize, they overlap, are completely leveled with This is not necessary. If you are now dependent on this, if you smoke, quitting this shit, it may be difficult for you, but seek support, look for an opportunity to get this shit out. Time will heal, time will completely kill you some kind of passion and mania for smoking. You don't need this. Your life will be ruined by weed. Think about it. It's just that now there is a real drug epidemic. In Russia, Belarus, I think so for sure. This includes mephedrone and grass, which is prohibited in the Russian Federation. I don't know how Roskomnadzor feels about this video, but I think that we should somehow, well, convey that, well, this is fucking crazy. Well, you must admit, this is fucking crazy.
Carder:
I also tried Travmodol in prison. I gave one pill to a drug addict, you can see that they, well, with experience their dosage is broken down, they threw in 6-8, but here they are, and for some reason I believe them, they said that in principle never try anything containing opium, that is, tromodol, heroin, poppy, promidol, all of these, yes, morphine, because, as they say, heroin can wait. Absolutely right.
Here, yes, I remembered this phrase, heroin can wait, and when you try an opiate, then there is a very high chance, a very high chance that you will most likely layer the addiction and become just a drug addict.
Larin:
I will recommend one channel now, it is called Mukha 8. This is a person who has experienced a lot of addiction, this is a former drug addict, he used heroin and he talks about how hard it is for him, what a mess it is, what things you do, how you turn into scum and how you, well, just don’t care at some point about such important events as, for example, the death of a friend, there is the loss of a very close person, loss of a job, how you start using everything.
In fact, it is very useful if you are currently addicted, watch such content to open your eyes and assess where you are now, if you suddenly smoke weed once a month, once a week. Think about it. Mukha 8.
Several years ago there was news that a girl in Minsk was arrested at the airport for one and a half tablets of ecstasy and she left for 12 years.
Carder:
This is a very sad fact. To put it mildly. We are forbidden until 18, or until 16, our parents, and that's it. And then we came out, it seems, already into adult conscious life, got drunk, threw up somewhere, these friends, mates brought us home, declared, got a beating, got it from dad in the morning, well, yeah. And it's the same with drugs, we just don't know how.
Larin:
Value your body, guys, value your brains, value your time and value your freedom first of all. No need for drugs, I don't recommend it. Let's talk about who you became after you got out. You are now involved in a lot of processes both in the media and in the Internet business. You told me that you make money from YouTube.
Carder:
Well, on the channel, I haven't counted for a long time, but when I had 200 thousand on the channel, now people on the channel are like, subscribe, link below. 250 thousand subscribers, when I had 200, I roughly calculated my income, it was from 5 to 15 thousand dollars a month. In total from the affiliate program and with integration. Now I'll explain, I have many more ways to monetize than it seems at first glance. Probably 6-7 ways to monetize.
Larin:
So that you understand, I have two. This is directly the affiliate program and the integration, which you see, well, for example, in this video.
Carder:
This is just an advertising insert from a direct advertiser. Adidas came to you, said, you have a whole bunch of sneakers on you or you have 5000 dollars on you, you need to take five with your channel, you need to charge them with it.
Larin:
I understand that I'm doing everything wrong, because I have some disproportionate, you know, this, someone might perceive it now, and you're already living in clover, like you still want something, a blogger doesn't work, blogging is work. Hard. Agree, it's hard work, many factors, including labor costs, man-hours, psychological moments.
Carder:
Burnout, depression.
Larin:
Absolutely right. But I didn't optimize my income at all. Now Seryoga will tell you how he optimized.
Carder:
Well, here are the numbers for September, $3,600 from the affiliate program.
Larin:
Dollars.
Carder:
This is with 2.6 million views. 2.6 million views, almost all the videos were with a green coin, that is, they were monetized, and YouTube ads were shown in them and income came from them.
Larin:
Your advertising is expensive, that is, your commercial views are expensive, given that you have a more mature audience and subject matter.
Carder:
Well, look, it turns out to be 2 million 600 thousand views and 3,600 income, that’s how much I get from a million views, about a thousand or 200 dollars, for example, from a million views. First of all, I have a male audience, 92% of the channel are men, you guys.
Larin:
We have 70 thousand men.
Carder:
Yes, I have 92% men, my main age is 25-34.
Larin:
We have 18-24 now.
Carder:
And then comes my second 18-24. What is your second?
Larin:
The second, exactly the one you named, the first 25-34.
Carder:
The second way of monetization is direct advertising, that is, direct advertisers. I don't get super big brands there, but I get all sorts of training programs like Skillfactor, get Larina for advertising, by the way, free.
Larin:
And I've already had all of them advertise.
Carder:
And those come, but lately there's been a lot of advertising from just all sorts of Telegram channels, YouTube advertising is profitable for Telegram channels, because before that, before they gained some kind of power and money to pay YouTube bloggers, me, you, someone else, they were brewing their own internal Telegram juice, channels are advertised on Telegram channels, they love the YouTube audience, it's fresh, someone sells some courses, someone is a designer, he needs a fresh audience, that's why they love all sorts of built-in advertising integrations on YouTube.
I was paid $2,400 today for advertising, of which the Telegram channel and that includes advertising in my Telegram. I was paid $2,400 today, advertising on my channel costs from $1,500 to $3,000, that is, we can shoot a cool direction, I come to you, shoot a full episode about your company, or you come to my studio, this is the most expensive one for me, it costs $3,000, just a mention, as we just mentioned in SkillFactory, $1,500, well, and put some kind of pre-roll in the middle of the video, that come here, buy this or subscribe there, well, two. It was very bad this year, it was very bad until about the summer, I think I had one direct integration during this time only until the summer, now I have already had 3-4 this month.
The third way, I have already indirectly touched on it, is to transfer traffic to your Telegram channel. I do nothing at all to run a Telegram channel, it is about the same as yours, that is, personally. I ask for some advice there, which preview is better, or do you like the title of the video more, or will you watch about drugs, about prison, or about business, that is, votes. And you just write your thoughts, I need a programmer, or I'll go to St. Petersburg, let's meet, well, such a personal blog.
But it is paid very generously, one integration on the channel costs me 35 thousand, and it turns out that in a year I have a Telegram channel for 70 thousand passively, well, I made it from scratch. Telegram has a good price, yes. 70 thousand subscribers, 35 thousand advertising, and now I will do a little bit of it. It turns out that for September and there the end of August, in a month and a half Telegram brought me somewhere around three hundred thousand.
Purely Telegram, rubles. Three six hundred YouTube, four Telegram, that's already seven six hundred and there were several direct ones, let's say another six thousand dollars at least.
Larin:
In short, you have to fifteen. To fifteen. Fifteen thousand dollars, let's just summarize a little. A person earns fifteen thousand dollars with a YouTube channel with two hundred and forty thousand subscribers, a Telegram channel with 70 thousand subscribers, and the topics are carding, security, business.
Carder:
There are a lot of IT specialists, a lot of bank security specialists, and a lot of arbitrageurs.
Larin:
Do you understand that you have one of the most expensive audiences?
Carder:
Yes, I understand, and I like it. I also just meet, I hold regular meetings with subscribers, there will be a meeting in St. Petersburg tomorrow, this is already a release, it will be released, and I see who comes, just deputies come, by the way, even. And do assistants to deputies not come from the LDPR? No. Yura Khovansky, hello, Khovansky. No, they don't come yet, but maybe. But I'm just as interested in him as you are. I'll explain later why I'm watching you.
I advertise a lot of anonymous browsers, I advertise some proxy services, telegram channels, that is, training courses are advertised.
Larin:
Well, because it's super about you. Like cybercrime, like security, accordingly, there are requests.
Carder:
My reputation is actually very good, generally great, I don't need money, I have several more Internet businesses and a book is sold, it is sold in Russian. By the way, I sold it through a publishing house, but I just sat there for now, but I published it with my own money. Here's the book business, if any of you ever decide to write a book and sell it, you don't need to do it through a publishing house, the publishing house does nothing for this promotion.
I know Portnyagin the transformer, he made money from his book, he now has a third, we met when he had his first and second books, and he had already earned a million dollars, Eksmo Publishing House earned four. But Portnyagin is simply a good book, it's not his outstanding abilities, it was good ghostwriters from Eksmo publishing house.
Larin:
I haven't heard of that, yes, yes, guest writers.
Carder:
If in Russian, let's say, ghostwriter, a stable idiom of expression, but I bring all the traffic to my book myself, viewers buy it from my channel.
Larin:
So you don't need a publishing house, you could have made yourself a publisher? In general. Wait, is that a publisher yourself?
Carder:
Now I am a publisher myself, yes. And I, since I understood that my main traffic still comes from my channel, these are my people on social networks, I didn’t have a YouTube channel at that time, I had a lot of people, they knew me after reading the book, you will sell your book, you will bring buyers, I understood this and I sell it, I took it off sale, well, firstly, it sold out already, but I took it off all platforms, neither on Litres there, nor on others, it’s not even in an electronic version and it’s sold only on my website.
Larin:
What percentage do you end up getting for 200 rubles, let’s say 240?
Carder:
A little bit different. My electronic version costs 300 on the website, electronic, many people buy it, they really buy it, they say I could have downloaded it on Flibusta, I buy it there out of respect. Paper ones cost me 800, autographed ones 1500.
Larin:
In general, it's difficult to start printing yourself and organize logistics for sales.
Carder:
No, it's not difficult at all. The second print run, I also have 3,000 copies now, but I just paid the publisher for it. Offset printing, books, newspapers and credit cards are printed, I know this process well, they are printed using the offset printing method, so to speak. And they have this, the higher the print run, the lower the cost. In the second print run, this was not the case in the first, books are simply passed from hand to hand, neighbors read, friends read, I added links to all my social networks, to the channel, to my cashback service, that is, I added links to everything, that is, the fourth way of monetization, the first is a YouTube affiliate program, the second is direct advertising, the third is traffic transfer to Telegram and advertising there and the fourth is selling books.
Larin:
But you say 15 thousand, is this with subsequent advertising in Telegram, do you think?
Carder:
15 thousand, yes, this is with advertising in Telegram, this is with the involvement of a Telegram channel.
Larin:
Does Instagram bring you anything or do you not do anything there?
Carder:
I don't do Instagram at all, I think it's for girls. Instagram, it doesn't have such expensive advertising as Telegram. And Instagram is not the same now, that is, TikTok is pumping up a lot now, I'm going to pump it up in a certain way now. It gives you huge amounts of free traffic, TikTok. There's real organic traffic there, go now, if the youth is watching, come up with your own thing, make TikTok, all these blogs. TikTokers, this is really the future, TikTok is like Instagram 5-7 years ago.
I have this approach to content, I'm for cross-platform, if you and I filmed one interview now, you should have this interview, pieces of it on Instagram, pieces of it on TikTok, something on Telegram and something on YouTube and again shares on VK and Facebook and Instagram.
Larin:
In short, there are events, and from the events you make content units for all social networks, plus we tie this together with what comes out for you, what comes out for me, that is, on.
Carder:
There is more synergy... I also have one more non-obvious way of monetization, this is probably the fifth Instagram I have discarded, yes, the fifth, that is, from some releases I still, their heroes, let's say, sold some training or something else, but again for those that I am not ashamed, because I turn away 70% of advertising, advertisers in Telegram, in YouTube, that is, my reputation is dear to me, since I do not really need money from this, and I always have this approach with advertisers win-win, that is, if I feel that it will not go well, I tell them directly, well, damn, why do I need your two, three, so that you curse me, well, really, I just grew up, this is esotericism, karma, that's all.
Larin:
This is prison. Guys, perceive this article as just a guide for making money in the media. I think it sounds very organic and makes you want to take action.
Carder:
By the way, I do a lot for free, that is, I post a Telegram channel and subscribers on Telegram for free once a week or two. If it’s not a scam and some young person has done some interesting project, I always advertise for free. I do the same thing on YouTube for free. Well, because not everything is measured in money. Yes, absolutely. But that’s not all the monetization, that is, merch. Merch on YouTube is just clothes, gear, T-shirts, iPhones, iPhone cases, shoes, whatever you want.
Bloggers with a monthly income of millions in dollars and 10 million earn 60% of their income from merch. Is that ours? Western. Western. It’s not so developed here, but here’s another non-obvious way: merch, that is, create some. But it doesn’t sell well for me, very well. Firstly, I don't advertise it anywhere, secondly, maybe it's so simple, well, what do people say about me, it's like a channel logo, but there are several clothing brands with which we'll make some cool hacker-carder themed t-shirts, prison ones, some memes used from the channel, this is probably the seventh way to monetize and there's just no time, we'll save your time. I'm trying so hard to speak quickly so you don't curse me, Dima. And of course, there are more, yes, ways to monetize.
Larin:
A. Buryak What generates these 15 thousand dollars for you?
Carder:
Well, more with indirect ones, there's 20+. You'll refer to something you're telling us here, in short, we'll go to the West, and you'll be very right, because in the West you do, in principle, the same thing. But in my cashback, for example, if I have a client from America or Western Europe, the income is 7 times higher. The steps to attract him are more or less the same. Well, yes, it costs a little more to attract, but the income is 7 times higher. Well, and there are more of them, too. Well, of course. His talking world, yes. Yes, it is huge, it is the whole world, it is the whole globe.
The same with Western bloggers, income, here is a channel for about 200 thousand, it can bring to the American market, here is my income there 20 plus thousand dollars multiply by 4, or even 7. Therefore, be sure to learn a foreign language, German, and better English and Spanish, because Spanish sooner or later will very quickly multiply the Spanish-speaking diaspora around the world and in the USA, and sooner or later it will become, they predict that it will soon become the first world language, overtake English. Young people your age often write to me about how to find your niche, how to understand where to move. I advise them to quickly figure out what you are good at. I once analyzed, thought about what I do best in life. I realized that an effective intermediary is simply... I've been selling things all my life, selling credit card numbers, selling equipment for making cards, the cards themselves, counterfeit documents, and before that, legal things, Internet access, some Puma sneakers, at the age of 6 I managed, it was still 1989, the Soviet Union found some Marlboro stickers that were in short supply in the Soviet Union at the time and sold these stickers. I realized that I was not producing anything myself, I realized that I was an effective intermediary, plus I earned many times more as an intermediary than the manufacturers of this product themselves. And I also sold, it worked out that way, goods that were always in short supply were easy to sell. That is why cashback, for example, is why I do it, well, not only is it a win-win project, beneficial for all parties, yes, but it also fits perfectly into my model of the world order.
That is why I am inclined to this, that is why I advise you to simply understand as early as possible how you have managed to earn money all your life, yes, for life, well, of course, we cannot live without money, you need to work there, and secondly, it is desirable, it is extremely desirable that you like your occupation.
Larin:
Well absolutely, and if you don't like it, then your day really turns into work, you probably don't perceive all your activities as work, it's just fun, yes, so this doesn't mean that you all need to urgently go to some resellers, black resellers, we'll talk about this, we'll talk about this on the People Pro channel, go there, guys, there's the second part of all this action.
Larin:
Naturally, we haven't covered all the topics that we wanted to discuss, but I think we'll do it on the People Pro channel, so come on, thank you all, until next time.
Carder:
Thank you.
Contents:
- In this topic
- Greetings
- Who is Sergei Pavlovich?
- Don't do carding anymore?
- Who is a carder?
- Carders' Code of Honor
- Why didn't you steal from your own?
- How do they steal information?
- About legislation in the CIS
- Carders in the CIS
- The number of cybercriminals now
- Why are there so many cybercriminals in the CIS?
- How Sergey became a carder and carding today
- What did you buy with the first stolen card?
- What I experienced the first time I was able to use someone else's card
- How much does a carder earn?
- How much did he steal in total?
- Was there a fear of going to jail?
- The difference between law enforcement systems in the US and ours
- How I ended up in prison for the second time
- How did you get caught the first time and how do you lure out cybercriminals?
- What would you like to say to Ryan?
- What did you feel after leaving prison, information hunger, shock?
- About prison, about myths about prison
- Are prisons similar in Belarus and Russia? And in the CIS as a whole.
- Does prison reform anyone?
- A contingent of prisoners in prison
- Number of employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs in Belarus
- What saved him in prison and how did he write a book in prison?
- What drives you crazy in prison?
- Salaries in prison
- What was the first change you noticed after leaving prison?
- Have young people changed?
- Crime has become less profitable
- About branded clothes
- How much does Vlad A4 earn?
- Crime is not easy money
- Who goes to jail for drugs? Article on drugs.
- Have you used drugs? About drugs in general.
- Who did you become after you got out of prison?
- Results, earnings
- Yura Khovansky
- In general about earnings
- TikTok is the future
- The non-obvious path to monetization
- A guide to making money in the media space
- How to understand who you are in life?
Larin:
Hello, Larin with you, and today our guest is Sergey Pavlovich. Sergey Pavlovich is a carder in the past, who served his sentence for 10 years, who published a wonderful book "How I Stole a Million". Today we will find out how he stole a million dollars. He will also teach me how to make money on YouTube, because my income is completely incomparable with what he does with smaller numbers.
How, what and why we will find out today.
Carder:
Well, we will also talk about hackers, carders, prisons and everything else. And about drugs.
Larin:
In short, something prohibited in the Russian Federation.
Carder:
Entrepreneur, writer, who else, probably a blogger and an architect of ideas. That is, I just like this word, I read in Jobs's book his biography "Architect of Ideas". I just like structuring some ideas, growing them, probably, into businesses. But when they ask me about my main role, well, I don’t know, entrepreneurship is closest to me, but it so happened that I also wrote a book.
Larin:
Well, the range of ideas that you, business ideas, it’s just amazing. Especially, you know, there’s a cliché, a person served 10 years, you imagine such a person with sunken cheeks, with yellow pupils, actually a person who is looking for a job as a security guard, and here sits a successful entrepreneur, who has cashback, who has some phenomenal income on YouTube, and carding, are you not involved in carding now?
Carder:
Well, no, I haven’t been doing it for 5 years, and this is more, you know, this is more of a volitional activity, the influence of esotericism and other karma, let’s say, I’ve probably matured, I served. And at the same time, this is the influence of prison and a long term, I served, it turns out, only 10 years. The first time, I was in jail twice, and the first time I was in jail for two and a half years, but I didn't understand anything, I was in hothouse conditions, in a pretrial detention center in a normal hut with a DVD, with ganja, and for two and a half years it didn't teach me anything.
But I spent a year and four years at liberty, they basically took me for about the same thing, and I was already sitting there for 6 kopecks. The total amount was 10 years. And, of course, I just didn't want to go to jail. At my peak, I was earning 50-100 thousand dollars a month. I was 21 years old then.
And I worked several hours a day.
Larin:
Did it blow your mind then?
Carder:
No, I wouldn't say it blew your mind. It turns out that according to the verdict, I have damages of 36 million dollars.
Larin:
By the way, I heard that you didn't steal this money from residents of the CIS, who were these people, whose cards were these?
Carder:
These were, in general, a carder, why, there are hackers, naturally, we all know, there are those who write viruses, spammers of some kind, there is a general concept of cybercriminals, it is much broader, it unites everyone, and a carder is also a common cybercriminal specialty, a carder is those who steal from bank cards, from the word cards, well, a card, respectively, and we really did, at that time, we stole, I have been doing this for a very long time, probably how old am I, almost 38 years old, I did this for about 14 years.
And we really had a kind of code of honor at that time, and we did not steal from our own, it turns out, from residents of the CIS countries. Now this is not observed, naturally, now they steal everything that is lying around.
Larin:
Everyone from everyone. And before there were Robin Hoods, in short.
Carder:
I would not say that this is specifically such altruism or something from ethical standards, but there were three reasons. The first is, of course, ethical, well, stealing from our poor people, whom the state...
Speaker?:
Who, yes, are already underfed, actually.
Carder:
In 1991, yes, the state deceived, then Mavrodi deceived and so on, well, that is, sinful, let's say. The second reason is purely economic, well, what are you going to steal from him? 150 dollars that were transferred to his salary card? It will go to microloans. Well, in general, that is, there is nothing to steal, right? That is, in America, you steal 3, 5, 15 thousand dollars from a bank account at once with cards, especially if it is a credit card, and here you steal 150, well, 500 dollars, and the third reason is purely from the security sphere, when you steal in the States, there is a high chance that even if you do not do it, they will never find you, but if you steal from Wildberries, last year there was a wave literally across the Wildberries marketplace and they stole a lot there, they will find you faster, the same Avito, fraud is very well developed there now, there are some phenomenal numbers there, or Sberbank online, when they call you, they call me about twice a month and try to trick me into sending a text message from Sberbank.
Larin:
They have never called me, but my good friend's mother lost 450 thousand rubles, which were credit, that is, this money still needs to be paid back. By and large, these are social engineers, that is, it was not special knowledge, these are just social engineers. And he deceives, and keeps him in touch when the person is already on his way to the ATM, throws in the amount. Hurry, hurry up.
Carder:
Now they are so talentless, that is, you can call with a substituted number without any problems, the Internet is full of services and many channels have covered this topic, there it costs 300 or 500 rubles, you put it in and you call, you will have your mother's number to determine or Sberbank number 900. Seriously? Yes, it is no problem, they work and cost pennies, but I have never been called from such a number. And why does this happen? How is it, is this a gateway that sells or what, how does this work? But this is in an IP phone, just voice traffic over the Internet.
This is approximately from the same series, when I order official spam by SMS, from the database, I order through Megafon, I can substitute some number, a mobile phone, or I can write, I don't know, Larin, for example. This is approximately from the same series, and all this costs pennies, but I have never been called from such a number with 900, with BER, for example. I get calls from some idiotic scammers who simply call from a Russian number.
It was a revelation for me, most of them are in prison, I filmed on my channel on people about, I filmed a bank security guard, most of them are in prison, the second part is on the territory of Ukraine, that is, huge call centers and they call as real databases, leaked by collectors and so on, because Katya, my wife, called, they say that Alfa-bank, that is, she has Alfa, but in general, the social engineer and Rosmush started talking, 70% of Russians have Sberbank a priori, they call me, they start to act stupid, I understand that these are scammers, I turn on the speakerphone on the phone, the voice recorder on the computer and I start trolling them, the last time they called me how many more cards of our bank do you have there, I say about 64, they understand that I am in the subject, they swear at me and hang up, but this is a serious topic and if in principle you steal from your own citizens, the chance that you will be identified is much higher and Well, basically, this code of the part was formed from these three such pillars, these three postulates, which even with all its slightly affectedness and strainedness was observed then, but now it is not.
Larin:
Yes, now in general the institute of reputation, well, it is a related topic anyway, that is, people advertise privateering rates, that is, where there is money, they go there, they don’t care. It seems that people have access to bank databases, that is, again, the story of that woman, my friend’s mother, they seemed to know that she has specifically Alfa-Bank, and they seemed to specifically know her credit limit, that is, they pulled out the entire amount.
Carder:
The thing is that in the embassy space there is practically no responsibility for the leakage of personal data. So, I have 36 million in damages, but they included me in a group with the Americans, I knew some of them, I worked with some, I knew some personally, the damage in our joint criminal case was more than a billion dollars.
Larin:
Is this a real figure?
Carder:
Yes, over a billion.
Larin:
So, that group, roughly speaking, that community you were a part of, it stole a billion dollars in what period of time?
Carder:
More. Well, in a few years, somewhere around 2-3 years. We had a main guy, he got 20 years in the US, Albert Gonzales. And I, by analogy, I wanted to call my book earlier “One of Albert Gonzales’s Friends”, well, like one of Ushin’s friends. And the company that made the biggest leak, we stole cards, well, in general, we stole dumps. Dumps are, in principle, a card number, but what is recorded specifically on the chip on the magnetic strip of a bank card.
And if you just have the card number, you can… Where did I start? This is a direction in carding – this is called “stuff carding”, when you just know someone’s card number, for example, you created a fake online store of records or books, people buy, and you just collect. There weren't all these SMS messages before, you know, confirm. And now too. By the way, if you don't know, young viewers also try to steal from my cards, sometimes they even steal successfully.
The point is, the same AliExpress for a small amount and even for a more or less average one, you don't need an SMS, Amazon doesn't even need a CVV code.
Larin:
Do you understand? Buryak Why don't they take any security measures, complications, some kind of two-factor authentication?
Carder:
Maksimov Well, it's easier for them to just sort it out somehow. In general, there is a purely selfish reason, in America, many ATMs still count from a magnetic strip, although they are required to, but they directly say that the cost of replacing all ATMs in the country is many, ten times greater than our losses from annual fraud. It's just selfish, someday, of course, they will replace them.
Larin:
It's easier for them to keep some percentage of the lost money. In Russia, things are better with this.
Carder:
In Russia, I want to say, in general in the CIS, we have very progressive banks. That is, some Australian or American bank, there are no SMS, no 3D-Secure, Visa Verified, it just doesn’t exist there. And there are no advanced applications like ours. It’s safe to say that in Eastern Europe, the banking system in terms of quality, in terms of applications, it’s not reliable, of course, because the databases are stolen and there is almost no responsibility, but in terms of technology, we are much more ahead of the Americans, but there are laws there, there is responsibility there.
Here’s a company that allowed a leak of about 100 million dumps, we stole 150 from them, it was a large retail chain, there was Walmart and there was also a clothing chain, they were fined about 200 million, they were issued fines of dollars for not paying attention to security, you know, and just missed it.
We don't have anything like that and we don't expect it yet. But these databases you're talking about are traded by the insiders who work in these banks. Legislation, I often discuss this topic with journalists and law enforcement officers, the legislation in the CIS is more or less normal. It is basically unified, Belarusian legislation, I'm just from Belarus, it's generally very similar to Russian legislation, and if law enforcement practice was normal, and not like in authoritarian countries, that's what I don't like about the laws, it's most of all this kind of fairness, injustice, if If you or I broke the law, we'll sit there, buy a fine, pay something else, but if it was broken in relation to you, the authorities violated your property rights, evicted you for legal tasks, you will have practically no way to prove it. This doesn't work here, that is, law enforcement practice is terrible, the laws are more or less.
Larin:
You said somewhere that most often carders, at the time when you were doing this, were representatives of the CIS, and that people do this out of desperation, because they have no money, and then they see, they master computer technologies, they get into some processes, and they resort to fraud, because they have no money.
Carder:
I am absolutely convinced of this, and I tell all Western TV channels about this. Why? In my time, in the early 2000s, there were few cybercriminals, about 3,000 people, and it was such a cozy atmosphere, forums.
Speaker?:
And what years?
Carder:
It was the end of the 90s, and somewhere up until 2004, up until 2007, you could even say there were 3-4 thousand cybercriminals there. A cozy atmosphere on the forums, few scammers and everyone shared information with each other. Were there gatherings? There were, yes. There were gatherings and there was a large gathering in Odessa, like Vorovskaya, there were probably 40-50 people there, they still remember it. And we met in groups of 5-10 people, 7.
We met most often on vacations in Spain and went to Moscow. In short, we met in many cities, mainly on summer vacations, there were cybercriminals who work online with each other, that is, in the summer we meet somewhere, but at that time we were not afraid yet.
Larin:
There couldn't have been a raid, so you got together and banged it.
Carder:
Yes, there couldn't have been and we were not afraid of spies, as if they were embedded and showed their faces without problems, we hung out there, had all sorts of orgies, there was cocaine and other things. Banned in the territory of the Russian Federation. And not only the Russian Federation, now the number of cybercriminals is over 100 thousand, that is, carding forums, if then there were 1, 2, 3, I can count them, literally even 1, 2, 3, now there are about 30 carding forums and the total number of registered on them is somewhere around 1.5-2 million.
Larin: Carder:
They are not on the deep web, they are right here on the open Internet?
Carder:
Well, most of them are not even banned by Roskomnadzor. Of course, I can have nicknames on 10 forums or more. But I make a clear conclusion that now the number of cybercriminals in the CIS is somewhere around 100-150 thousand active, and we had 3-4 thousand. Why so many? And why is it mainly Eastern Europe? Because I have never, never in my life met or worked with a cybercriminal from prosperous Switzerland, the Netherlands, there were a few in the UK, there are many in America, they are all sorts of rabble, Romanians, Moldovans, there is enough of all that, there are many in Spain, but these are mainly Romanians. But never from the very, very few from Germany, in Switzerland in general, from France there are very few Arabs, I have practically never met them. And we have no social mobility at all. It seems like the remnants of that Soviet education, especially technical, they are still somewhere and this is forced poverty, it makes the brain work, that is, we can come up with a Russian-language, some kind of fraudulent scheme, but we have no social elevators.
It is impossible for us, I came up with something or you, or he came up with a brilliant startup and we cannot get financing, we do not have long, long money in the country. And it turns out that when an entrepreneur does not find an opportunity to realize himself, he becomes a fraudster. And in my case it happened, I have never been involved in any kind of fraud, I have not stolen money on the Internet, it happened by accident, on a website, I was doing some kind of commerce on the Internet, I was selling some sneakers, Internet access, and I accidentally saw on a website, on a classified ad on an Internet bulletin board, that credit cards were being sold. That's it, I accidentally got into this. Cards, by the way, back then, now they cost 20-50-100 dollars for one card, the number of just a card that allows you to order something in a Western online store.
Larin:
Does it really still work like that? Just a number without a holder name, without an expiration date?
Carder:
No, they are usually sold, sold as a complete set. That is, you have a billing address, the payer's address, his social security number, if necessary, then it just cost, if now 20-50-100 dollars, in my time it cost half a dollar, a dollar was the retail price, the retail price was 1 dollar. Now you have to bother to enter some kind of thing or a laptop from Amazon, for example, enter it and it comes to you.
Even if you have a great card with money on it, because you need to bother, pick a relevant IP address there, that is, for example, if you have a Detroit card owner, there is such-and-such a state and that's it, your IP should almost be from this street figuratively, that is, although all those topics that we were stirring up back then, this is called stuff carding, they steal PayPal, the most unprotected payment system in the world, with the most idiotic anti-fraud, sometimes with my legal stick, I can't pay for something, the anti-fraud torments me for some reason, but they steal from it the most, and all these topics that worked 20 years ago, that work now, the same topics, you just need to adapt them a little, it has become more difficult to enter them, but the pros worked as they did then, and they still work. So what did you order from the first stolen card? The Barnes and Noble website, it was a book chain, we ordered, there were these gift sets of discs, they were Pink Floyd, 11 discs, one The Wall had this gift version, it cost 140 dollars, I think, we were getting them for a hundred, that is, in general, it was a very liquid product.
Larin:
Did you order it to your address or was it a drop?
Carder:
There were mostly drops, there were drops, drops are such front men from among distant acquaintances, alcoholics of some kind, and they were usually ordered to do things on them, of course, but then the cops were simply not savvy in this area, in some countries, in Russia, until recently, there were still no laws allowing people to be prosecuted for cybercrime, the maximum they hung was 159 fraud, which is quite difficult to prove, now of course everything has changed and they put people in jail normally, but again, this is a purely Russian story, in Belarus I sat for 10 years for some bullshit, I did not commit, did not cause any damage to citizens or organizations of Belarus, all the episodes for which I was in prison were against the USA and Western Europe. And the injustice of my entire personal situation is that I can’t go anywhere now.
The USA does not recognize... And you are closed, are you banned from leaving the USA? Well, that’s only Russia and Belarus for me. I can’t even go to Ukraine. Because the US considers that you have served time only if you have served time on their territory, and sometimes they also recognize the Great British USSR. But they don't care that I have already served time in Belarus for their episodes.
Larin:
But maybe your situation will change somehow? Is there some, well, expiration of years, there, I don't know, a statute of limitations?
Carder:
No, there is nothing. There is simply an option to somehow reach some kind of compromise with them, let's say, sit for six months or a year, maybe work on them somehow, to knock there or again. Well, to consult. Well, how can I knock now, if I am no longer in the know there. But to consult, yes, it is possible to somehow help strengthen banking security, the security of the United States as a whole, and we have such conversations with them periodically, it's just that so far I am not satisfied with their conditions and the lack of some kind of guarantee, i.e.
When I get an acceptable guarantee for myself, and when I need to eat in Russia, for example, then maybe I will go there.
Larin:
What did you experience when you were able to use someone else's card for the first time?
Carder:
This happened when the goods had already arrived, i.e. you entered, there were cases, there were funny cases, you enter the goods, you just do many-many orders per day, something is confirmed, something comes, something doesn't come. And I remember, I had a big argument with one guy, I was completely wrong there, I admit something there, and I get 100 roses. I come home from college, my mother says, there's some bouquet for you on the balcony, there are such roses there, somewhere around a meter sixty, huge burgundy roses.
I say, how many are here? And there's a real grab, she says, 100, and imagine my reaction, I think that this enemy of mine, he just sent me, well, like wine, good thing it wasn't a horse's.
Larin:
A head, like in that movie.
Carder:
That's roughly the emotions I experienced, and only later I saw the business card already inserted there, and there was a flower de e, that is, I ordered it myself somewhere, maybe a month ago, I ordered those flowers from a second credit card, maybe I wanted to give them to some lady, they arrived. Well, I just experienced it, there was no such joy, everyone there thinks oh, the money, some big joy there, it's an ordinary office job, if then yes, we had a chance to earn there, well, an ordinary carder then earned 3-5 thousand dollars a month, me and about 100 other people in the world, maybe 50-100, we earn up to 100 thousand dollars a month.
Now it's all turning into more of an office job, because they've jailed almost all of these top hackers, most of them Russian and I personally know most of them, they're sitting in the US, the ones who hacked all these databases, and there are practically no card numbers, this has affected the price, well, compare a dollar then and 20-50 now. And there's no quality, you buy a card for 50 dollars and it's probably already been resold 20 times.
That's why now, I've told everyone a hundred times and I've written about it in my book and I've said it on YouTube, don't just don't go into this, because it's comparable to an office job in terms of income and plus you're constantly risking your freedom.
Larin:
The risks have increased.
Carder:
They increased because the cops got smarter, you know. And I sat for 10 years, it would seem, but the damage there, okay, the damage was 36 million, I alone in the group had more than a yard, but I counted, there was nothing to do in prison, I usually counted how much cash I personally put in my pocket, well, all my criminal income is only 1 and 2 million dollars, imagine 1
2 million dollars and I had to sit out 10 years for it when they didn’t catch you, like, well, it’s cool, such an amount, but 10…
Larin:
It’s not worth it, if you spread it out over time.
Carder:
Well, 120 thousand a year, yes, only. That is, I’m earning legally now, yes, I earn less per month, but I’m not worried that they’ll put me in jail again, I’m afraid of it, I don’t want to.
Larin:
By the way, I was afraid that they would put me in jail, paranoia often rolled in over the years, when you had not yet been caught the first time, when the money was coming in, you understood that it was someone else's money. Or did you have such courage that "yeah, what about me, I'm like Kevin Mitnick.
Carder:
Well, I was young, you see, money usually comes to us at a very young age, I started at about 14, somewhere around 19-20 I was already earning significant amounts, and if paranoia had haunted me, I would not have been in jail, I think, because my brother, who by chance turned out to be an accomplice in all my affairs and is still wanted since 2008, is on the Interpol of the US police. Is your brother wanted by Interpol now?
Yes, my cousin. He is hiding. I am also on Interpol, by the way, still. I'm in Interpol, I don't know what kind of mark he has, but I have a US wanted list and an arrest mark in Interpol. You know, not to tell where you need to go, but an arrest mark. That's why I can't go anywhere, and I can't handle this. But it turns out that my brother has been wanted since 2008, he's never been in jail, because his paranoia was extreme then. If his VPN fell off, he'd never go online to do anything.
That is, he was always paranoid, he's never been in jail, even if he was wanted because of me, but I was.
Larin:
And the second time too, the second time when you got out, you started doing it again, weren't you paranoid either?
Carder:
Well, the second time I did practically nothing, I was no longer involved in crime, that is, they gave me a much longer sentence, they gave me 10 years, I committed much less than anything. But there is a funny moment, here is the difference between the law enforcement system, for example, in the USA and our post-Soviet one, this is a very significant remark, ours have to clean up, well, due to the small staff, small funding, due to the large number of criminals in these areas, ours have to clean up some kind of complete crisis there.
There is a statement or there are 10 statements or the FBI sent documents on me, for example. And the Americans, they basically use the tactics that they used to fight mafia clans since the 70s. They infiltrate ... - They lead shorter than you. - They are not interested in small fish, yes, they infiltrate organized groups and eliminate the leaders.
This is their tactic and 4 years, I thought this was a client, he buys dumps from me, according to his legend he was a native of Thailand living in the USA, and I thought he was one of our best clients, always paid on time, did not ask for discounts, sent some laptops as a gift, expensive branded perfumes, and that's it. And I understand that now I know that this is a US Secret Service agent, Richard, I don't remember his last name anymore.
Larin:
Rat, human factor, you were caught on this.
Carder:
And he developed me for four years, it turns out. But all these gifts, yes, I understand that he did not pay for them out of his own pocket, but bought them at public expense.
Larin:
The FBI sent them to you for your engagement party.
Carder:
The US Secret Service. It is engaged in the fight against fraud, cybercrime and the protection of the highest US officials, as the presidential service simply with investigative functions. So he was this agent, for four years he gathered my social circle here, you understand.
Larin:
This is the second time, yes, an introduction for four years, and the first time, how did you get busted, how did they catch you?
Carder:
He was the first time, the thing is that he was already present in my life, and moreover, he lured me out to all sorts of resort and island countries several times. They cannot arrest us on the territory of post-Soviet countries, because there is no one from Donovaya Dacha, yes, Russia does not extradite its citizens, Belarus does not extradite its citizens to America. In fact, there is no legal possibility for America to get me from Russia or Belarus. That's why they lure you out or watch you, where you went on vacation somewhere, they usually already know who you are, what you are, what you are involved in.
And they just got caught on your Instagram. There's this brave Dmitry Smelyanets, he had some serious group in Russia on counter-strike, he's a very famous guy. And he has an accomplice Vova Drinkman, Syktyvkar Skorpa, I think he's his number one hacker in the world. And that's how they got caught, they just went to Holland, the cops had been watching them for about 8 years, probably since my first arrests. They were watching them and he just boldly took a photo in Amsterdam, there's this inscription in white letters, the heart of Amsterdam, I love Amsterdam.
He took a photo next to her, posted it on Instagram or Facebook and that's it, the American cops, watching them, immediately realized that they were in Amsterdam. It's clear that the hotel was only 5-star, there would be a ton of cash and they called around, where they were staying. And that very night they were arrested, that is, together with the Dutch police. That's the human factor that's the strongest. And this agent, he was constantly luring me out, luring me to Thailand, something fell through.
I didn't go to the Dominican Republic for the second time on paper, and something fell through for him too, but I would have been sitting, yes, on American territory then.
Larin:
What would you like to say to Richard if he's watching us now?
Carder:
Richard, I remembered, I slightly blabbed about Ryan, Ryan Knisley. I remembered this bastard, okay, Ryan Knisley, I would say that Ryan, you're a hottie, you did your job great.
Larin:
Ryan Knisley, did I get a star, what do you think?
Carder:
Most likely, yes. There's no such anger after the fact, that is, it's a cat and mouse game, they have their job, we have ours. That is, when TSK, I was supposed to have an interview with him on the channel, they just dumped him in prison, it's outrageous, but when they caught you for your beauty, proved your guilt, in principle, albeit with some violations, but they caught you, in fact, for yours, for theirs, as it were, you can serve time, well, I would have told him that he's a hottie.
Larin:
Ten years, that's a huge term, that's what it's like, what is it like in general, did you experience an information famine, did you follow what was happening in culture, in music, in literature, in the mass media in general?
Carder:
You can probably divide prison into the first impression and later, when it's already routine, when you've already had a long term there, when the trial has already passed, let's say, up to here, you have some hope of breaking free, and then you go into the cell, I can give you some advice, I see all sorts of criminal personalities coming and writing under videos everywhere, I don't know why I watch this, but I know that I live in Russia, just in case I watch a video on how to enter a cell, this is our reality, none of us is immune from prison.
Larin:
Like in a tram, half sitting, half shaking, nothing has changed since the Soviet Union, when this meme appeared.
Carder:
Or Basta, half the country is sitting, half the country is guarding. Any of us can go to jail tomorrow, you may never break the law in your life and never bribe even the traffic cops, you'll stop, knock someone down at a crosswalk, knock down the prosecutor's son there, you'll be right, but you'll be wrong, the main thing is not to be afraid of anything there in prison and don't watch those idiotic TV series about prison, especially the series "Zone" on NTV, forget about it, never watch it, a normal person is fine there, yes, in the zone, well of course it was scary when you went into the cell, for example, well, I was expecting something, some rituals, idiotic registration, like they'll throw you a towel, you'll pick it up, you won't pick it up, you'll pick it up, that's long gone, nothing, maybe it's left somewhere in juvenile detention, because there's excessive cruelty in juvenile detention, where there are juvenile criminals, there's nothing like that and just, well, of course, it's desirable not to lie, not to throw fluff on yourself, there is such a prison expression, well, to show off, to tell something that didn't happen, well, you just came in, introduced yourself, they pulled you in, you don't need to talk about sex, because everyone thinks they're offended roosters, but roosters know many words, they're called offended, well, so as not to oppress them there, because roosters are actually very useful, some are not necessarily some kind of pedophiles, but a pedophile is a humiliated rooster, offended behind bars, there are no options at all, as for rape, many people think that they also end up in a harem, they become roosters, no, they don't, rape is not the same as rape, a woman could have told you herself, that is, she could have given it to you with consent and then written a statement, extorting money, something else, or you refused to marry her, that's all, and there is such a bit of wildness, just talking about sex, they generally need to be stopped by such thieves' runs, decrees, but they can do all sorts of these cruel ones, unclean people watching the camera of a young prisoner, a convict, ask Like, what are you doing there, like with your wife, did you lick her or not? That's it, you say you licked her, straight to the harem, no options there. Same thing there, don't even think about such things, well, your wife sucked you off there, well, here it's clear that you live with her, kiss her, that's it, also to the harem. Well, you just need to stop talking about sex.
Larin:
You did your time in Belarus, are prisons in Belarus and Russia similar?
Carder:
In general, in the CIS as a whole. Of course, they are similar, they are even similar in appearance, yes, we have this camp system, the camp system, well, in general in the States, for example, the prison system in other countries, in Europe, prisons, we have camps, a camp is just like a camp, there are separate barracks, well, GULAG is just all the camps, it was called a correctional colony, earlier both TKR and correctional labor.
Larin:
This is a strange name, correctional, does prison correct anyone at all? Or is it still the execution of punishment? In general, in developed countries, the effectiveness of penitentiary correctional systems is considered by the number of recidivism. In our post-Soviet countries, the percentage of recidivism of repeated flights to prison is 70-80, it is huge. Abroad, especially in Western Europe, Norway, Brevik and I laugh, oh, wow, he shot 70 people there and he had a separate suite, a computer, a gym, but the correctional system there, the percentage of recidivists is 2-3 times lower than ours. And ours is simply a punitive system, a retributive one, yes. Larin: What kind of people did you meet while you were there? What kind of people were they? Were there those with whom you could have a heart-to-heart chat, discuss some innovations, technologies, I don’t know, something intellectual? Carder: You mostly meet them in pretrial detention centers, because there are all sorts of businessmen sitting there, and officials, and customs officers, and just bandits. Larin: Fraudsters, probably, on a large scale, that’s not the most, probably. Carder: Let's say I've always found a common language with organized crime groups, because these are groups from the 90s, there are already wealthy people, established, adults, they just take 20 years after the crime, by the way, sometimes they give more than for murder. I've met people whose maximum crime was throwing acid on someone's car, but this is racketeering, this is the 90s, this is organized crime, all countries are afraid of it, that is, Lukashenko is afraid of organized crime, Putin is afraid, because people can do something, not one after another, these are groups. Larin: It's all connected, again because of social lifts people start, here's the situation again, yes, in St. Petersburg crime has increased because incomes have fallen, some muggings have started right away, that is, again your incomes are falling, there are no social lifts, people go into some kind of banditry, into organized banditry, and as a result there is a lot of crime, a lot of police per capita, in our countries there is a very high percentage of cops, both in Belarus and in Russia.
Carder:
In Belarus, there are more. By a lot? Belarus has the highest rate in the world. That is, in Belarus, according to official estimates, there are 1,442 police officers of all kinds per 100 thousand people. 1,442. In my calculations, I add judges, prosecutors, internal troops and special forces, all sorts of additional services, and I operate with a figure for myself of about 2,000.
That is, every 50th security officer. Is every 60th security officer in Russia counted here? No, less.
Larin:
Less? Less. If you count, for example, the Russian National Guard, all that. Well, maybe. I just haven’t seen such a high figure in Russia, but it’s possible. But in Belarus, there are 2 thousand per 100 thousand people. In developed countries, there are now 300 special services of all kinds per 100 thousand people. 300 and 2 thousand. In the Soviet Union, there were 200 in general. The authorities. But here there is so much police not because there is a lot of crime, because the special services here, the police, the Russian Guard and everything else are the support of the current government, both in Belarus and in Russia, that is why there are so many of them. Larin: How did you get information over these 10 years? Carder: In general, it is not easy to sit in prison, of course, but I was saved by the fact that I had a fairly large stash. When I went to prison, I had 100-200 thousand dollars in stash there, and how did these stashes form at all, did I then spend 3-5 thousand dollars a month on my family, on myself, which I spend now with a smaller income. And this saved me enough, because money is needed for a transfer, expensive lawyers, to sort out something with the investigation somewhere, to delay some mobile phone somewhere, sports nutrition, to sort out a gym. But I want to tell you, if I hadn't had money and some connections and just the gift of gab to find common ground with the legions and the thieves, with everyone, I would have 100% come out as you roughly described, that is, with yellow, rotten teeth, a broken psyche, and so on. And even with all this, that I was sitting in fucking awesome conditions, one might say, although I was sitting in the best zone in Belarus, in the worst, I experienced both sides of the coin, even with all this, in my sixth year of my second prison term I was starting to go crazy, honestly. I was just walking around the local area, I understood, I had been sitting for five and a half years, I understood that I would go a little nuts. And music saved me then, I walked around, humming four songs, this was Adam Lambert, one song, then Jared Leto’s “30 Seconds to Mars”, and there was also some “Don’t Fear Me” sung by some woman, well, I don’t remember, in short, I made a list of the fourth one and posted it.
Carder:
Yes, it was music that saved me, otherwise I would have been released as a psychopath without money and without music, probably, and with my health undermined, both mental and physical. I was saved by the fact that I spent most of my term with a mobile phone, because I was writing a book in the zone, and it came out, when else would I have to sit, I still have 3 years to sit, it came out, that is, I was able to write it by hand on a mobile phone, hand it over to the publisher, they printed it at their own expense, I did all this in the zone, that is, the mobile phone saved me, and then, when I was transferred for a number of reasons to the toughest zone in the country, I could not, naturally, use mobile communications, it can be delayed there, paid for, corrupt someone in the industrial zone, the colony, or come to an agreement with some cop, or just not for money out of sympathy, you are friends with him, let's say. But there, if they had frisked my cell phone, I wouldn't have gotten 15, 30, 50 days in solitary confinement, but I would have gotten a couple more years to my term.
It's not the zone itself that kills me more, not the deprivation of freedom itself, this insanity. A round collar is allowed, a floor collar is not allowed, seasoning is not allowed, bouillon cubes are allowed, for some reason, Galina Blanka, yes. Knorr comes, they may not let you in, because the cop who receives the package and his wife only knows Galina Blanka and him, but Knorr is not, these are not bouillon cubes, and deodorants are not allowed and so on, well, that sort of thing.
Larin:
Well, in short, if they want, they can rot you, if you cause some kind of antipathy, there's a screw boss, then come on.
Carder:
Well, plus the information hunger, of course, it's worse than the physical one, your task there is to make the degenerate obedient, so that you stupidly go to the industrial area, clean up after, there's work there, they don't pay you there like at a normal enterprise here, although according to the labor code you should be paid the same, that in places of imprisonment the salary, if you don't understand, behind bars, both in Belarus and in Russia, it is half a dollar one, five dollars a month, you need it there like a slave in the middle of nowhere on this traffic jam.
Larin:
A month and a half bucks?
Carder:
And what can you do, are there some stores there, can you buy? Well, a kiosk, a prison one, there are cigarettes, notebooks, envelopes, well, you can buy something to eat, but that is to say that only tough goats earn 50-100 dollars in the zone, those are the quartermasters, the foremen. You don't have to snitch, you're just a foreman, you're responsible for the prisoners going to work, you urge them on with flattery, with threats, someone coaxes them, you know, they beat them up, just so your team fulfills and exceeds the norm, sews these mittens.
Larin:
A collaborator, in short.
Carder:
Well, roughly, policemen.
Larin:
I understand that a lot has changed, the world is dynamically changing all the time, as it seems to us, those who were not so much distanced from society. What was the first thing you saw, what changed, when you got out?
Carder:
In short, what has changed since the "ten"?
Larin:
Yes, yes.
Carder:
What's wrong? If I were sitting in the "ten" in Japan, I would go out and there would already be spaceships flying there instead of cars, but in Belarus, for example, nothing has changed, because it became simple, they built a national library, in my opinion, not very beautiful and illuminated the facades of the central streets, it became more elegant. The president of the USA is the same, salaries have become smaller, well, that is, real purchasing power, that is, if before 100 dollars in the 90s this family could eat for a month.
A family of three on 100 dollars in the 90s.
Larin:
Could a family eat for 100 dollars? Yes, in the 90s. A whole month. Well, in this regard, nothing has changed. Technologies, I just didn't lag behind them, I read a lot of different magazines, when I didn't have a mobile phone anymore. I read a different set of magazines, and they were like Popular Mechanics, Men's Health, i.e. from different spheres, there was Masland Fitness, I pumped up there in the zone a little more, Playboy, i.e. Forbes. Larin: What is Playboy for? Carder: Playboy is just a versatile magazine, it has literary columns, and it simply reviews both technology and science. Larin: Now you understand, guys, what to tell your mom if you find it under your pillow somewhere. In general, write down the list, the list is really good. Carder: I read approximately this list and thanks to it, in principle, I didn't lag behind. I also subscribed to several computer magazines of all kinds, I was already getting to know the world of applications, I understood that the future somehow belongs to them, well, that's what I also liked. Crypto appeared and applications got such a boom when I was already released. That is, I had modern phones in prison, I had a Nokia 97, in general there was a mini-computer and all sorts of early smartphones, yes, also based on Windows. Larin: Except for technology, the fact that the mustachioed are still in power. Carder: Yes, essentially, nothing has changed. Even in the world of crime, carding, all the same topics that worked, they, as I already said, with minor modifications, continue to work. Larin: Youth. Six years is a long time. That is, if you leave a person at 12, and you come to him at 18, this is already a sexually mature member of society who can vote. Naturally, for ...
Carder:
Of course, against. We are getting older and it seems to me, naturally, that the youth is getting dumber. Perhaps it is subjective, perhaps it is. Why do I judge this with confidence? Because the first video that I built on the channel, on my People Pro, was with a stashman. You can’t do that, you can’t use prohibited substances and even talk about it, probably now. But it, in principle, gave such a serious boost to my channel, but very quickly, literally within a few weeks. This video was banned by Roskomnadzor in the territory of the Russian Federation and I read a bunch of degenerate comments under it.
These are the first haters that I encountered on YouTube, I was really upset somewhere, then after a day I got used to it, I was simply mocked somewhere, but I realized that this generation, unlike all my other videos, was watched by young people. I realized that it was so degenerate. Larin: Or outstanding gentlemen. Carder: I try to draw some positive conclusion from each video, that this is not how it should be done, because I said, look, this stash man, he was lucky, he was not caught stashing drugs, and he did not go to prison for 15 years or 10 years at the age of 20-21, but you should not do this, because at the peak of his activity he earned 2.5 thousand dollars a month, and I say that a mechanic at a service station can earn that kind of money, and I personally know mechanics who earn 5 thousand dollars, these are painters from God who do body repair, they earn, and 90% of the comments were what an ass I am and show me a service station where a mechanic can earn 2.5 thousand. They can, they can earn. Yes, they can. Of course, this is not a lot of money. Of course, not everyone earns, but some earn even more. What I mean is that you should not risk Larin: your life for such an amount. The risk is so great, of course. And freedom. Carder: Who is at risk. It's not worth the effort, it's stupid. They don't read anything. So many people discuss some books, I constantly discuss fiction, some technical books, books about business, about marketing, which I read in my life in prison, I read a lot of things and I've been reading since childhood under the covers. I'm telling you, most young people, those who are now, I'm talking about those who are now eighteen minus, that's the generation, eighteen years younger, and many say that your book was the first one I read after the ABC book, after the alphabet.
And what did they write? They wrote, I said, I try to make each of my videos, People of different specialties come to my channel and shoplifters come, and growers, again an organization banned in Russia, and pimps, porn stars, scammers, car thieves and businessmen, among other things.
They have such a degenerate lifestyle, their parents feed them, but they don't want to, they have no ambition, that's why we have this, as you say, generation Z, I think we have, yes, millennials, we didn't have enough to eat, we had nothing, we have ambitions and a desire to do something, our parents couldn't give us. But those who are young now, they don't want anything. They don't even have the ability to fuck a chick, he'll lie there on the couch, play some game on the Internet.
Their parents feed them, sing. They have no ambitions, they have no desire to learn or develop somehow. And against this background, if some outstanding young man asks me something, I have advice, well, everyone knows that I read every comment, I just launched it a little now, I personally read every comment on YouTube through YouTube Studio, yes, and I answer almost everyone, and I always try to give some advice and support.
And finishing this topic of crime, for example, I want to say that it has changed, probably, crime has become more unprofitable, the risks are higher, the profitability is several times less for a number of objective and subjective reasons, the probability.
Larin:
To sit down more.
Carder:
Higher, yes. The cops have learned, people have started snitching more. Here, as Dovlatov has a brilliant phrase, we unanimously curse comrade Stalin and, of course, for good reason. And yet I want to ask, who wrote 4 million denunciations, and let's not forget this. And despite the lack of social elevators, it is now easier to realize yourself in business, firstly, it is easier to get some knowledge, a bunch of different courses, we will not take
InfoBis, yes, it sells air.
Larin:
If it is free, you just google and find that information, there is simply an ocean of it, put in the effort.
Carder:
Websites for learning Photoshop and so on.
Larin:
Any specialty. Programming. Any schoolchild can learn, on the most banal example of this YouTube network, yes, any schoolchild can learn to edit, well, probably in a maximum of a week to the level at which top bloggers edit. So take contracts.
Carder:
I have the youngest editor, he is 17 years old, I sometimes use him when the main ones are away, sick. It is easier to educate yourself, of course, but they do not want to, they just have such a parasitic lifestyle.
Larin:
You know, what I associate this with, in short, with a shift in the focus of the opportunity to earn money in the medical field, in short, I made a separate video about this about the cult of luxury, the cult of money and the envy that follows from this, that is, people see that everyone is flexing, everyone is saying that they have a shit ton of money, cars, diamonds, everything that is possible, everything that is inaccessible to them, and they see it like, fuck, I can’t get it, but I want it so much.
They want it right away, you know, as if not through thorns to the stars, fuck, but straight from rags to riches. They do not want to make an effort, the media pumps them up partly too. Because, I don’t know, my family is like two locomotives, they just carry you. In the 90s it was very hard, there wasn’t enough money, we ate what we could find, roughly speaking, berries, mushrooms, my father brought a duck, killed a goose, you know, that kind of thing.
There’s no such thing now, now anyway there’s an abundance of food, it exists. And you don’t see examples, you don’t seem to face the fact that your basic needs are not encouraged, I hope you understand what I’m talking about, that is, you have to constantly work on this, you have to constantly do some things to improve yourself, so that later you have at least some income.
Carder:
Well, in this regard, prison helps a lot, because at 21 I had all sorts of expensive cars, branded clothes, well, after prison I slept, damn, I slept in isolation cells, you sleep, outside there it’s minus 20, minus 30 degrees in February, I was often locked in isolation cells behind a mobile phone in the winter, you sleep on the floor, because the bunk is fastened to the wall in the isolation cell during the day, and it turns out that it comes off, but the boards are so crooked there, they are like this, it’s impossible to sleep on it, as a result you sleep on a concrete floor, you sleep, while outside you have minus 26, minus 30, you have such cracks in the windows, you just stuff all the toilet paper, you stuff all the clothes, so that this window, and I already lived in this shit, you can say I slept on this dirty floor, well, so what have I already seen, but that is Well, where is this sick Syaha now, it won't make me better, clothes, that is, don't look at these bloggers, 90% of them may not be worth the finger of your parents who raised you for 90 years, they fucking got everything just like that, so easily, just by coincidence, someone successfully flashed their face on this TV and on YouTube, as they say, and that's it, and don't chase these clothes, it's all superficial. Gucci won't make you better.
If you're a vegetable, if you're a loser in life, well, a bad person, even if you don't know, dress in Dior, it won't make you better.
Larin:
If you can't steal a donkey, you can't make a horse. In general, guys, strive and develop, and all the money in the world, all the opportunities in the world, all the women in the world, if you need them, they are, roughly speaking, already at your feet. Just make an effort to get there. The Internet has opened up huge opportunities, we lived and grew up in times when these communication channels existed, or did not exist at all, or were so narrow, so limited.
Carder:
It opened up opportunities, but they don’t use them.
Larin:
Yes, because it’s been there since birth, it’s been there since birth, and the Internet is, accordingly, you only consume entertainment from there.
Carder:
A4 turned on.
Larin:
Well, yes. Did you mention some figure, how much, according to your estimates, A4 earns?
Carder:
Well, considering that it has a youth audience and so on, but from all sources of monetization, I think it still gets 200-300 thousand.
Larin:
200, even on a small scale, yes, 200 thousand dollars a month.
Carder:
Let’s even take 100, the bare minimum. Let’s take into account that its audience is not teenagers, as I thought, and you’re talking even younger, nonsense, well, 100 thousand dollars a month. Do nothing. It's like carding, like you did in the best times of earning. But for me carding is generally a crime, guys, it's not easy money. Often from the cops, from lawyers, from journalists there is such an opinion that crime is easy money, but it's not easy at all.
When I was actively involved in crime, they could wake me up at any time, day or night, because the buyers were in Southeast Asia, Turkey, in different time zones, all, I had to know English even then, that is, I spoke several languages. And this is really hellish work, you have a lot of responsibility. On one hand, they are drumming on you, writing somewhere, and you are still walking under this wet sword. I can agree that crime is fast money, but it is not easy, it is as hard work as any other.
Although, yes, Dima and I just said that there are no social elevators in the country, in our Soviet space, but if you have some kind of brilliant idea, you can make some kind of application, like a masquerade, my Belarusian compatriots made these masks, sold them on Facebook for a hundred million dollars, you can make such an application, money for your idea, you can find this, there is such a 3F, in general in the startup movement, in the investor movement there is 3F - Friends, Family and Fools, that is, family, fools and friends, and you attract money from them, if you believe in your idea, checked it, it is viable, you can attract money from family, friends and fools, you can use crowdfunding, there are platforms, in Russia it is planeta ru, boom starter, but Russian crowdfunding practically does not work, it works only if you, like with books, if you already have an army of fans, that is, musicians can collect money for an album there, but if you you go to some Western platform, there are many, for example, someone came up with an awesome backpack, from which it is impossible to steal a laptop, for example, and you go with this prototype of the backpack to indigogo or better to kickstarter and just put it there, describe it in English, shoot a video, your idea and that's it, they will donate to you.
That is, crowdfunding, well, please, there are enough ways to attract financing, so do not even go into crime, because I am saying, that is, the game is not worth the candle now and when you get there, yes, like in Belarus for drugs, I was in jail with these, with many who were for drugs, they have already worn down so much that people, well, the average term for drugs is somewhere between 8-12 years now. We are talking about Belarus now. And the saddest thing with all this is that there they go to the picket fence for 10 years.
Everyone is distributing, but I know about two thousand who were in jail for drug charges, in a pretrial detention center, in the zone, I crossed paths in the second zone.
Larin:
What kind of people are they? Age?
Carder:
Well, they are mostly young people, from 20 to 25.
Larin:
Well, that is, roughly speaking, the age of my channel's audience. Guys, you know, it's like death, it's something that happens to others. Going to jail for drugs is something that happens to others. No. It can happen to any of you.
Carder:
I barely survived 10 years, and I was already a developed person when I went to prison, with money, with brains, with connections. The criminal world knew me. And I really almost went crazy. And I lost my health, of course. And to go to prison for drug addiction in Belarus means that you will sleep on the third tier, on the bunk. That is, you will have a profuchet, if, for example, ordinary prisoners had two checks in the morning and in the evening, 8 am and 8 pm, for example, then if you have drugs, this is a profuchet, and every 2 hours they will pull you, line up your group of drug addicts on the parade ground and count you.
And plus, working in an industrial zone, it will be the hardest, the norm there, there metal, for example, you clean, they bring some cables that have lain in the ground for a thousand years.
Larin:
Non-ferrous metal.
Carder:
Non-ferrous metal. They bring some engines. Oh, I took apart the doors, this is not the most pleasant procedure, guys. So, if, for example, my metal delivery quota is 15 kilograms per day, well, and I want to say that it is greatly inflated, by the way, in reality I did about 6 kilograms. Here, give me a knife, give me metal, I will do 6 kilograms in a day. The quota according to the documents is, say, 15 kilograms. You come to the parole court, yes, they ask the shop foreman how much metal he delivers, he says, say, 6 kilograms per day.
He says, and the quota is 15, you work lousy, you are unworthy of parole, go. So you will not be jailed for three leagues, the three of you, you will not do 15.
Larin:
It's hard, no, try to take apart the engine, first you take apart the braid here, and first you take apart the body, saw off the braid, then you rip out each one with pliers, it's hard. You'll collect, well, a kilogram from the engine, maybe I just did it myself, well, in my youth, I had no money.
Carder:
Try that, well, it's crazy. But in the zone, those specially trained ones take apart this engine, they take it apart with one key and one head, they take apart this entire engine in half a day. The metal for you, it's not like the cops brought you the metal, gave you a knife and that's it, well, clean it, right? It has to be obtained. A copper-colored car arrives, opens the body and unloads it. The gates are closed, you stand in the workshop in the local area on the street, smoking there.
The car unloaded, drove off, the gates opened. Fuck, we're filming this in St. Petersburg, this ice battle, it starts on this Lake Chudskoye. Can you imagine, they run, fall, run along the top of Lake Ladoga, and they grab together, there are often cases when you and I grab the same piece of metal, I'll pull it and fight at the same time. And that's it, well, really, that is, maybe even a knife.
Larin: Carder:
Stick it out of this metal. In short, don't fight for metal, don't smoke weed, don't buy drugs, you used drugs. Before going to prison, I was only familiar with weed and hashish. And in Belarus, the prices for it were crazy. Really, that is, when in St. Petersburg, in Moscow, a gram of ganja or a substance banned in Russia or hashish was sold for 10 dollars, in Belarus it was 40-80. And I tried this, well, rarely, I don't have any of these desires there, well, connections, I smoked somewhere by chance in companies. In prison, I tried amphetamine. Larin: Guys, don't use amphetamine at all, it will destroy almost all systems in your body, from your teeth to your immune system. You don't need it, it will drive you crazy. Just like grass. Grass is crazy. I don't smoke now, guys. I smoked weed, I admit it, and I can tell you that my life became unimaginably better after I got completely clean. Weed is romanticized in the media, and it's terrible, but you know, like few people know that the best stuff was written when people were clean. Weed is not a drug, weed is considered organic, right? That's a complete lie. Weed gets you hooked really hard, weed demoralizes you, you lose motivation, you close yourself off. People who were sociable and could meet a person on the street, talk to a girl on the subway, they lock themselves at home. This is how people usually take drugs, get acquainted with weed. At first, you smoke somewhere in company. The social factor. Well, yeah, maybe once a month, maybe once every two months. Then you get together with some guys specifically to smoke weed, you smoke weed. Then the worst thing begins, you smoke at home alone. And then you just smoke at home, more often, more, you have tolerance, you lose everything, and it's not even about money. The effects that romanticize, they overlap, are completely leveled with This is not necessary. If you are now dependent on this, if you smoke, quitting this shit, it may be difficult for you, but seek support, look for an opportunity to get this shit out. Time will heal, time will completely kill you some kind of passion and mania for smoking. You don't need this. Your life will be ruined by weed. Think about it. It's just that now there is a real drug epidemic. In Russia, Belarus, I think so for sure. This includes mephedrone and grass, which is prohibited in the Russian Federation. I don't know how Roskomnadzor feels about this video, but I think that we should somehow, well, convey that, well, this is fucking crazy. Well, you must admit, this is fucking crazy.
Carder:
I also tried Travmodol in prison. I gave one pill to a drug addict, you can see that they, well, with experience their dosage is broken down, they threw in 6-8, but here they are, and for some reason I believe them, they said that in principle never try anything containing opium, that is, tromodol, heroin, poppy, promidol, all of these, yes, morphine, because, as they say, heroin can wait. Absolutely right.
Here, yes, I remembered this phrase, heroin can wait, and when you try an opiate, then there is a very high chance, a very high chance that you will most likely layer the addiction and become just a drug addict.
Larin:
I will recommend one channel now, it is called Mukha 8. This is a person who has experienced a lot of addiction, this is a former drug addict, he used heroin and he talks about how hard it is for him, what a mess it is, what things you do, how you turn into scum and how you, well, just don’t care at some point about such important events as, for example, the death of a friend, there is the loss of a very close person, loss of a job, how you start using everything.
In fact, it is very useful if you are currently addicted, watch such content to open your eyes and assess where you are now, if you suddenly smoke weed once a month, once a week. Think about it. Mukha 8.
Several years ago there was news that a girl in Minsk was arrested at the airport for one and a half tablets of ecstasy and she left for 12 years.
Carder:
This is a very sad fact. To put it mildly. We are forbidden until 18, or until 16, our parents, and that's it. And then we came out, it seems, already into adult conscious life, got drunk, threw up somewhere, these friends, mates brought us home, declared, got a beating, got it from dad in the morning, well, yeah. And it's the same with drugs, we just don't know how.
Larin:
Value your body, guys, value your brains, value your time and value your freedom first of all. No need for drugs, I don't recommend it. Let's talk about who you became after you got out. You are now involved in a lot of processes both in the media and in the Internet business. You told me that you make money from YouTube.
Carder:
Well, on the channel, I haven't counted for a long time, but when I had 200 thousand on the channel, now people on the channel are like, subscribe, link below. 250 thousand subscribers, when I had 200, I roughly calculated my income, it was from 5 to 15 thousand dollars a month. In total from the affiliate program and with integration. Now I'll explain, I have many more ways to monetize than it seems at first glance. Probably 6-7 ways to monetize.
Larin:
So that you understand, I have two. This is directly the affiliate program and the integration, which you see, well, for example, in this video.
Carder:
This is just an advertising insert from a direct advertiser. Adidas came to you, said, you have a whole bunch of sneakers on you or you have 5000 dollars on you, you need to take five with your channel, you need to charge them with it.
Larin:
I understand that I'm doing everything wrong, because I have some disproportionate, you know, this, someone might perceive it now, and you're already living in clover, like you still want something, a blogger doesn't work, blogging is work. Hard. Agree, it's hard work, many factors, including labor costs, man-hours, psychological moments.
Carder:
Burnout, depression.
Larin:
Absolutely right. But I didn't optimize my income at all. Now Seryoga will tell you how he optimized.
Carder:
Well, here are the numbers for September, $3,600 from the affiliate program.
Larin:
Dollars.
Carder:
This is with 2.6 million views. 2.6 million views, almost all the videos were with a green coin, that is, they were monetized, and YouTube ads were shown in them and income came from them.
Larin:
Your advertising is expensive, that is, your commercial views are expensive, given that you have a more mature audience and subject matter.
Carder:
Well, look, it turns out to be 2 million 600 thousand views and 3,600 income, that’s how much I get from a million views, about a thousand or 200 dollars, for example, from a million views. First of all, I have a male audience, 92% of the channel are men, you guys.
Larin:
We have 70 thousand men.
Carder:
Yes, I have 92% men, my main age is 25-34.
Larin:
We have 18-24 now.
Carder:
And then comes my second 18-24. What is your second?
Larin:
The second, exactly the one you named, the first 25-34.
Carder:
The second way of monetization is direct advertising, that is, direct advertisers. I don't get super big brands there, but I get all sorts of training programs like Skillfactor, get Larina for advertising, by the way, free.
Larin:
And I've already had all of them advertise.
Carder:
And those come, but lately there's been a lot of advertising from just all sorts of Telegram channels, YouTube advertising is profitable for Telegram channels, because before that, before they gained some kind of power and money to pay YouTube bloggers, me, you, someone else, they were brewing their own internal Telegram juice, channels are advertised on Telegram channels, they love the YouTube audience, it's fresh, someone sells some courses, someone is a designer, he needs a fresh audience, that's why they love all sorts of built-in advertising integrations on YouTube.
I was paid $2,400 today for advertising, of which the Telegram channel and that includes advertising in my Telegram. I was paid $2,400 today, advertising on my channel costs from $1,500 to $3,000, that is, we can shoot a cool direction, I come to you, shoot a full episode about your company, or you come to my studio, this is the most expensive one for me, it costs $3,000, just a mention, as we just mentioned in SkillFactory, $1,500, well, and put some kind of pre-roll in the middle of the video, that come here, buy this or subscribe there, well, two. It was very bad this year, it was very bad until about the summer, I think I had one direct integration during this time only until the summer, now I have already had 3-4 this month.
The third way, I have already indirectly touched on it, is to transfer traffic to your Telegram channel. I do nothing at all to run a Telegram channel, it is about the same as yours, that is, personally. I ask for some advice there, which preview is better, or do you like the title of the video more, or will you watch about drugs, about prison, or about business, that is, votes. And you just write your thoughts, I need a programmer, or I'll go to St. Petersburg, let's meet, well, such a personal blog.
But it is paid very generously, one integration on the channel costs me 35 thousand, and it turns out that in a year I have a Telegram channel for 70 thousand passively, well, I made it from scratch. Telegram has a good price, yes. 70 thousand subscribers, 35 thousand advertising, and now I will do a little bit of it. It turns out that for September and there the end of August, in a month and a half Telegram brought me somewhere around three hundred thousand.
Purely Telegram, rubles. Three six hundred YouTube, four Telegram, that's already seven six hundred and there were several direct ones, let's say another six thousand dollars at least.
Larin:
In short, you have to fifteen. To fifteen. Fifteen thousand dollars, let's just summarize a little. A person earns fifteen thousand dollars with a YouTube channel with two hundred and forty thousand subscribers, a Telegram channel with 70 thousand subscribers, and the topics are carding, security, business.
Carder:
There are a lot of IT specialists, a lot of bank security specialists, and a lot of arbitrageurs.
Larin:
Do you understand that you have one of the most expensive audiences?
Carder:
Yes, I understand, and I like it. I also just meet, I hold regular meetings with subscribers, there will be a meeting in St. Petersburg tomorrow, this is already a release, it will be released, and I see who comes, just deputies come, by the way, even. And do assistants to deputies not come from the LDPR? No. Yura Khovansky, hello, Khovansky. No, they don't come yet, but maybe. But I'm just as interested in him as you are. I'll explain later why I'm watching you.
I advertise a lot of anonymous browsers, I advertise some proxy services, telegram channels, that is, training courses are advertised.
Larin:
Well, because it's super about you. Like cybercrime, like security, accordingly, there are requests.
Carder:
My reputation is actually very good, generally great, I don't need money, I have several more Internet businesses and a book is sold, it is sold in Russian. By the way, I sold it through a publishing house, but I just sat there for now, but I published it with my own money. Here's the book business, if any of you ever decide to write a book and sell it, you don't need to do it through a publishing house, the publishing house does nothing for this promotion.
I know Portnyagin the transformer, he made money from his book, he now has a third, we met when he had his first and second books, and he had already earned a million dollars, Eksmo Publishing House earned four. But Portnyagin is simply a good book, it's not his outstanding abilities, it was good ghostwriters from Eksmo publishing house.
Larin:
I haven't heard of that, yes, yes, guest writers.
Carder:
If in Russian, let's say, ghostwriter, a stable idiom of expression, but I bring all the traffic to my book myself, viewers buy it from my channel.
Larin:
So you don't need a publishing house, you could have made yourself a publisher? In general. Wait, is that a publisher yourself?
Carder:
Now I am a publisher myself, yes. And I, since I understood that my main traffic still comes from my channel, these are my people on social networks, I didn’t have a YouTube channel at that time, I had a lot of people, they knew me after reading the book, you will sell your book, you will bring buyers, I understood this and I sell it, I took it off sale, well, firstly, it sold out already, but I took it off all platforms, neither on Litres there, nor on others, it’s not even in an electronic version and it’s sold only on my website.
Larin:
What percentage do you end up getting for 200 rubles, let’s say 240?
Carder:
A little bit different. My electronic version costs 300 on the website, electronic, many people buy it, they really buy it, they say I could have downloaded it on Flibusta, I buy it there out of respect. Paper ones cost me 800, autographed ones 1500.
Larin:
In general, it's difficult to start printing yourself and organize logistics for sales.
Carder:
No, it's not difficult at all. The second print run, I also have 3,000 copies now, but I just paid the publisher for it. Offset printing, books, newspapers and credit cards are printed, I know this process well, they are printed using the offset printing method, so to speak. And they have this, the higher the print run, the lower the cost. In the second print run, this was not the case in the first, books are simply passed from hand to hand, neighbors read, friends read, I added links to all my social networks, to the channel, to my cashback service, that is, I added links to everything, that is, the fourth way of monetization, the first is a YouTube affiliate program, the second is direct advertising, the third is traffic transfer to Telegram and advertising there and the fourth is selling books.
Larin:
But you say 15 thousand, is this with subsequent advertising in Telegram, do you think?
Carder:
15 thousand, yes, this is with advertising in Telegram, this is with the involvement of a Telegram channel.
Larin:
Does Instagram bring you anything or do you not do anything there?
Carder:
I don't do Instagram at all, I think it's for girls. Instagram, it doesn't have such expensive advertising as Telegram. And Instagram is not the same now, that is, TikTok is pumping up a lot now, I'm going to pump it up in a certain way now. It gives you huge amounts of free traffic, TikTok. There's real organic traffic there, go now, if the youth is watching, come up with your own thing, make TikTok, all these blogs. TikTokers, this is really the future, TikTok is like Instagram 5-7 years ago.
I have this approach to content, I'm for cross-platform, if you and I filmed one interview now, you should have this interview, pieces of it on Instagram, pieces of it on TikTok, something on Telegram and something on YouTube and again shares on VK and Facebook and Instagram.
Larin:
In short, there are events, and from the events you make content units for all social networks, plus we tie this together with what comes out for you, what comes out for me, that is, on.
Carder:
There is more synergy... I also have one more non-obvious way of monetization, this is probably the fifth Instagram I have discarded, yes, the fifth, that is, from some releases I still, their heroes, let's say, sold some training or something else, but again for those that I am not ashamed, because I turn away 70% of advertising, advertisers in Telegram, in YouTube, that is, my reputation is dear to me, since I do not really need money from this, and I always have this approach with advertisers win-win, that is, if I feel that it will not go well, I tell them directly, well, damn, why do I need your two, three, so that you curse me, well, really, I just grew up, this is esotericism, karma, that's all.
Larin:
This is prison. Guys, perceive this article as just a guide for making money in the media. I think it sounds very organic and makes you want to take action.
Carder:
By the way, I do a lot for free, that is, I post a Telegram channel and subscribers on Telegram for free once a week or two. If it’s not a scam and some young person has done some interesting project, I always advertise for free. I do the same thing on YouTube for free. Well, because not everything is measured in money. Yes, absolutely. But that’s not all the monetization, that is, merch. Merch on YouTube is just clothes, gear, T-shirts, iPhones, iPhone cases, shoes, whatever you want.
Bloggers with a monthly income of millions in dollars and 10 million earn 60% of their income from merch. Is that ours? Western. Western. It’s not so developed here, but here’s another non-obvious way: merch, that is, create some. But it doesn’t sell well for me, very well. Firstly, I don't advertise it anywhere, secondly, maybe it's so simple, well, what do people say about me, it's like a channel logo, but there are several clothing brands with which we'll make some cool hacker-carder themed t-shirts, prison ones, some memes used from the channel, this is probably the seventh way to monetize and there's just no time, we'll save your time. I'm trying so hard to speak quickly so you don't curse me, Dima. And of course, there are more, yes, ways to monetize.
Larin:
A. Buryak What generates these 15 thousand dollars for you?
Carder:
Well, more with indirect ones, there's 20+. You'll refer to something you're telling us here, in short, we'll go to the West, and you'll be very right, because in the West you do, in principle, the same thing. But in my cashback, for example, if I have a client from America or Western Europe, the income is 7 times higher. The steps to attract him are more or less the same. Well, yes, it costs a little more to attract, but the income is 7 times higher. Well, and there are more of them, too. Well, of course. His talking world, yes. Yes, it is huge, it is the whole world, it is the whole globe.
The same with Western bloggers, income, here is a channel for about 200 thousand, it can bring to the American market, here is my income there 20 plus thousand dollars multiply by 4, or even 7. Therefore, be sure to learn a foreign language, German, and better English and Spanish, because Spanish sooner or later will very quickly multiply the Spanish-speaking diaspora around the world and in the USA, and sooner or later it will become, they predict that it will soon become the first world language, overtake English. Young people your age often write to me about how to find your niche, how to understand where to move. I advise them to quickly figure out what you are good at. I once analyzed, thought about what I do best in life. I realized that an effective intermediary is simply... I've been selling things all my life, selling credit card numbers, selling equipment for making cards, the cards themselves, counterfeit documents, and before that, legal things, Internet access, some Puma sneakers, at the age of 6 I managed, it was still 1989, the Soviet Union found some Marlboro stickers that were in short supply in the Soviet Union at the time and sold these stickers. I realized that I was not producing anything myself, I realized that I was an effective intermediary, plus I earned many times more as an intermediary than the manufacturers of this product themselves. And I also sold, it worked out that way, goods that were always in short supply were easy to sell. That is why cashback, for example, is why I do it, well, not only is it a win-win project, beneficial for all parties, yes, but it also fits perfectly into my model of the world order.
That is why I am inclined to this, that is why I advise you to simply understand as early as possible how you have managed to earn money all your life, yes, for life, well, of course, we cannot live without money, you need to work there, and secondly, it is desirable, it is extremely desirable that you like your occupation.
Larin:
Well absolutely, and if you don't like it, then your day really turns into work, you probably don't perceive all your activities as work, it's just fun, yes, so this doesn't mean that you all need to urgently go to some resellers, black resellers, we'll talk about this, we'll talk about this on the People Pro channel, go there, guys, there's the second part of all this action.
Larin:
Naturally, we haven't covered all the topics that we wanted to discuss, but I think we'll do it on the People Pro channel, so come on, thank you all, until next time.
Carder:
Thank you.
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