Jollier
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Sergey Pavlovich talks to a carder who works in Russia. Today's cybercriminals even have a saying: "Whoever works in RU - they come to him in the morning." Not only is this dangerous, it is also not entirely ethical: in my time, carders tried not to steal from their own. And there was usually not that much money on Russian bank cards (probably, this is still the main reason, coupled with the fact that the police will search much more thoroughly). Nevertheless, the hero of today's issue claims that today stealing money from CIS cards brings him the most money, and it is done quite simply.
How their drops were accepted, how they carded iPhones from Ozon and other large stores and auto parts, how bandits pressured them and once the cops accepted them, for what they managed to pay off and much more.
Be sure to write in the comments what you think of today's hero, as well as how ethical it is to work in Russia.
Enjoy reading!
Contents:
Pavlovich:
Those who work on ru, they come to them in the morning.
Carder:
The FSB came to the guy who sold the SIM cards. And I didn't give a shit, and the shops, in principle, did not have any anti-fraud.
Pavlovich:
It is critical to rob anyway, the poor are their own people and so on.
Carder:
On Russian material there were such fat balances that, I don't know, there, the cops come somewhere in about four months, just to feel like a sucker.
Who is visiting
Pavlovich:
Friends, hello! Today there will be a continuation of the story with the carder, only this time with an active carder, as if far from a newbie. And moreover, for you, probably, this will be a revelation, but with someone who worked specifically in Russia. You know this saying, those who work on ru, they come to him in the morning.
How did you get into carding, the first visit of the FSB
Pavlovich:
Well, you worked in Russia and in general this is quite unusual. How did you get into carding in the first place?
Carder:
I was sitting at home, browsing the Internet, found something on how to make money. I mean, I'm not from a particularly rich family. And I decided to get involved somehow, found some topic, some cards on the Internet. It was the Carder.Life forum, it was probably 2012. I found some American cards there, either Chase or something else, and decided to add to my name, for example, Money.Yandex.Ru mobile phone.
Damn, I don't care, they were posting free lists on the forum, well, distributing material, and I decided to try to forget about it. I succeeded, the payment of 250 rubles was successfully completed. I was surprised, everything was okay. Here.
Without an SMS? Without an SMS, without anything. I mean, no, I was spinning 3D from Chase, but there is processing there, and that's it. I mean, what is it called there? Well, VBV autopass. Here. Something like that. Here. Then more, more. That is, 500 rubles already, then 1000. Then, it turns out, you can also get 3, and after 3, it seems, they already gave out 50 dollars, that you will refresh your account with the bank.
Pavlovich:
Did you top up your phone?
Carder:
Yes, first mine. I even made mine on the Internet. Here. The operator was Megafon. Here. And on some fine day, when I was there, well, I did this for about a week, I ran out of SIM cards, and something was blocked there, it seems, something was not working.
So, an SMS comes in the morning, hello, you have been denied service due to fraud or some other such thing and that's it, and the SIM card went offline, that is, I already woke up, it was offline, the last SMS.
Pavlovich:
Well, the operator blocked it, right?
Carder:
Well, yes, then I bought it.
Pavlovich:
Another operator, again for himself, here. So what, did you top up? Did you top up another operator in exactly the same way with Vargon?
Carder:
Yes, I topped up other operators. It turns out I continued to surf the forums, look for this free material, enter it. I didn't have any checkers, that is, nothing. It was all by trial and error. That is, again, in the same Yandex.Money. Some were rejected, some went through. Somehow it all worked. Somehow we ran out of SIM cards to which to deposit money. And a friend of mine had a buddy who worked, it turns out, for one of the mobile operators.
We came to him. We said, register SIM cards for us. He registered SIM cards for us. We paid him with two bottles of beer. We received the SIM cards and left. I successfully processed them.
Pavlovich:
How do you withdraw money, do you deposit it from the left card to the SIM card, did you withdraw it somewhere?
Carder:
There was a withdrawal at that time, there was PayYota.Ru, I think, that was a service, now, probably, few people remember it. That is, like PayMTS.Ru, PayMegafon.Ru, payment from a mobile account, that was back in 2012 or something, back in 2013 it was still on Yota. That's it. Then, naturally, it all closed down, apparently, because of people like us.
And at some point, as we were hugging all these SIM cards, my buddy calls me and says that the FSB guys came to the guy who sold the SIM cards. The FSB guys just came. I'm like, well, that's cool. That's it. As it turns out, they were looking for the guy he sold these SIM cards to. Yeah, the SIM cards were registered there to Lenin, there to Pushkin and so on, that is, well, it's just crazy, well, well, and with that situation, in short, nothing was done to him, it seems he was either fired or something, and as for me too, that is, I was not acquainted with him at all, and the dude did not leak to me, that's it.
Pavlovich:
Well, lucky that he did not leak yet. Well, okay, and how much did you manage to make on that scam?
Carder:
In the region, probably 150 thousand rubles at that time. For me, that was a lot of money, just, well, crazy.
Pavlovich:
Well, about 5 thousand dollars.
Carder:
At that time, probably, yes, I did not yet count in dollars at that time.
What happened after?
Pavlovich:
And what happened after?
Carder:
I had a buddy, so, and he and I, in short, decided, well, I decided to tell him about this topic, so, and we started working together. We found stores, it was already a luxury shop at that time. I think, if I'm not mistaken. Well, Uproot worked, and it turned out that at that time there was US-material, that is, it all went according to US-material, well.
And we somehow entered it into the Russian shop and it turned out that there was either an HTC Wildfire S, or some other, well, cheap phone at that time, but a tramp one.
Pavlovich:
In America?
Carder:
No. In the Russian store, through the Robokassa gate, it was all there. Everything flew in easily.
Pavlovich:
Also without an SMS?
Carder:
Yes, without an SMS.
Where did you get the "material"?
Pavlovich:
Look, okay, it doesn't take much effort to enter a credit card, phone or laptop in a Russian store, especially if it gives you one without an SMS, but where did you get the material itself?
Carder:
So, we got the material itself from online stores, it turns out that at that time it was Susan, Pricebenches, maybe someone remembers, and will shed a tear, so to speak. We saw that there was True Material, that is, Russian Federation, there were more than 500 of them, and updates were literally every week. And at that time, 3D-Secure was almost nowhere to be found.
That is, 3D-Secure is SMS protection. That is, at that time, only Sberbank, I think, provided it. Because there were a couple more banks. That is, UTB did not exist, UNKB did not exist. There was, I think, USIT at that time. 90% of banks simply did not have it. And we decided to pour money into it.
At that time it was Liberty Reserve, so we invested, either through Qiwi, damn, I don't even remember what we invested through, in short, somehow we invested in Liberty, invested it all in the store, and tried to buy material, that is, I still had some SIM cards left, maybe we bought some more there somehow, I don't remember exactly, so we bought VTB, it turns out, and tried to upload to Megafon there, it seems there was a 10 thousand ruble limit, we enter 10 thousand, and the payment flies away successfully, that is, there are 10 thousand rubles on the SIM card, another 10 thousand rubles limit, it seems there was 30 thousand rubles at that time specifically on VTB.
It used to be more on MKB. We uploaded to Abiline, that is 15 plus 15, it seems there plus 15 three times 15, it came out to 45, but that was already like this.
Pavlovich:
Others not with VTB material with replenishment via phone, that's clear, that's purchases there.
Carder:
The store, that's when the material ended because well, we worked it out literally quickly entered everything, that's when we started to rise little by little, that's there was material left with 3D-secure, that is, with SMS, and we didn't know where to put it. That is, it just lay stupidly in the shop and lay, that is... Well, and I once tried to enter AliExpress, that is, everyone knows this Chinese store where they sell phones and other junk, that's it.
We tried to do it, I did it directly to my address, delivery by EMS mail, that's it. Straight to my home, straight to my apartment, straight to the floor, that is, everything was okay. And they ordered, up to 150 dollars gave simply, well, very simply. That is, we entered, op, payment successful.
We entered again, payment successful, and so it was possible to hammer it up to 15 times, that is, 150 bucks.
Pavlovich:
So the main thing is that the transaction is no more than $150, right?
Carder:
Yes. But, as I understand it, it was possible to do 30, I just haven't tried more, that's it. But this is all from Russian cards, this is all from Sberbank and others, there was Citibank, what else was there, there were many banks, some of them have already closed, some of them had 3D, in short, we killed them, we killed all the rest, we entered it turns out to be a top-up, etc., etc., etc., but for example, I buy something from AliExpress from my Sberbank
Pavlovich:
Even today, yes, it often doesn't ask for an SMS, then they top up the hosting, there, they pay for their sites, they also don't ask for an SMS, that is, perhaps, there, and now it works up to a certain limit?
Carder:
No, it doesn't work anymore, because it's all been screwed up, really badly, but Ali has its own nuances, for example, on 11.11, or on Ali's birthday, you could enter a bunch of materials there for 80 grand from one SC, without even linking it to self-registration.
Well, you self-register an account, that is, you register it yourself, your IP, well, not your IP, but you get it through a proxy, through sfera or something, so that the fingerprint, so that everything is according to feng shui, as they say, that's it.
Pavlovich:
Well, what am I saying about allegory, that is, I mean that even now it doesn't always ask for 3D, that is... No matter how much I pay for something on Ali, I always have no SMS.
Carder:
Well, for small amounts, now, I think, I have information that Ali Express now gives up to three, somewhere before thirty, three thousand rubles, but this is generally nothing, there is no point in beating him at all, setting something up, his ass, there, in the ass of drops. This happened literally 4 months ago, probably, after the sale. That is, Ali was 9 or 10 years old at the time of the sale, 9 I think.
And after it, everything was immediately fixed.
How much did they earn from selling phones, carding.
Pavlovich:
Well, okay, you were hammering mobile operators, right? You withdrew money through them, through AliExpress. So there was a lot in this way?
Carder:
No, we hammered mobile operators and withdrew money from mobile operators to bank cards. That is, to our own, to Qiwi, the same one, got it. And from AliExpress we stupidly received rates, phones, and stupidly sold them. At that time, it was HTC, refurbished phones installed. And at that time, people did not know what refurbished phones were, and we sold them as new.
That is, at a price higher than even on AliExpress. That's how it all happened. And we made pretty good money on it. That is, we sometimes picked up 40 phones a day from one post office. And plus there is EMS, delivery, a courier brought some things that are purely for the home, something like that.
The same with a phone. Different, in short, they ordered like this. Basically, these were mobile phones, because they are the most liquid.
Pavlovich:
Easy to sell.
Carder:
Easy to sell, yes, even now. But now people don’t have the money, I’ll tell you this, to sell for, well, 60 percent, in principle, Avito will take it all from you. Because this is a Eurotest, and people now really like the growth test and really fuck with people’s brains on Avito, on Yula.
Pavlovich:
And how long did you work with cellular equipment and AliExpress?
Carder:
How long? Damn, well, until VTB introduced normal 3D, because they didn’t introduce it for a long time, it seems to me, for 2 years, in 2014 maybe, they only introduced it in 2015, really adequate 3D, and sometimes it’s still not there, or it’s on privilege level cards, maybe they turn it off.
How much did we withdraw, it turns out, or how much did we earn?
Pavlovich:
Well, how much did we earn, yes, over the entire time?
Carder:
Over the entire time? Well, at that time it was probably more than two million for phones, literally for, probably, half a year. And half of the money for mobile phones was spent on all sorts of expenses, cafeterias, barterers, something like that.
Pavlovich:
Well, that is, we can conclude that at that rate it was probably 1,100 dollars for six months.
Carder:
1,100 dollars.
Pavlovich:
Well, if 2 million and then from these operators.
Carder:
Well, in my opinion, it was all spent there, thrown back, you understand. That is, the material there was not particularly expensive at that time, but there was also invalid content and checkers did not work there, that is.
Pavlovich:
And by the way, how much did the Russian material cost and was it cheaper than American cards?
Carder:
At that time, American cards, it seems to me, cost around, probably, 3 dollars, and ROM material, probably, cost 5-6, there, depending on Billing, with a Billing address, that is, for a shop it matters, that is, for me, for example, it doesn’t, that is, the date, the COV number and that’s it are important, that is, I don’t need more, well, and over time, all this began, naturally, to become more expensive.
That is, now Russian material can be sold for 100 dollars, and there USA is now for 15, for 25. The same Voltmarket, I think everyone knows it, there Russian material costs around 50 somewhere. It turns out that USA costs there, probably, from 5 to 25, sometimes 35.
Well, depending on the base. Here is the average price now, well, Russian material, about 40 bucks, well, this is in this particular store. There are other stores where you can look for Russian material, naturally, by bins. Here, bins are the first six digits. That is, there are bins that, for example, banks do not update their database. Well, in a timely manner, just like CC Shop does not update.
That is, for example, Tinkoff issued its card. Well, a new bank, it turns out, a new card. It has, for example, BIN 553691, and if you enter it, for example, in a USA store, well, in the USA, well, in the shop where they sell USA CC, it will give a really big list of these cards, and this will be true material, and not USA, at least in the CC shop it will be written that it is USA.
Pavlovich:
I recently looked there for cashback, I pay someone on Tinkoff for some reason they often identify me as Taiwan, in general, that is, Taiwan, then Australia commercial some bank, I don’t remember anymore, apparently you know just Tinkoff, when the new bank appeared, they took these free bins from those banks that no longer exist, and in databases like Visa Interchange directors and MasterCard, they are listed as foreign banks, and what, what does this affect?
Carder:
What do you mean, what does this affect?
What is BIN, what does it affect?
Pavlovich:
Well, what does BIN affect? That is, bin in general, well, for me, bin has always been just to determine the type of card.
Carder:
No, well, bin is what you get from it, what country it is, what bank, what level of the card, that is, if it is a loan, then it is cool, if it is a debit card, then you can leave it for later, mainly credit cards are entered, so we entered them, because they have a larger balance. For the remainder, there are some beach donations, some donation alert, and you can finish there, some debit cards,
specifically the debit level, and so on.
Why did you use RU material?
Pavlovich:
Why did you use Russian material? Because it went through better, right, or why?
Carder:
For Russian material at that time, that is, at that time I worked, it turns out, from a laptop, from a mobile, it turns out, a modem, it was iota, and, well, I didn’t even know what the sphere was there, all these browsers for anonymity and so on, and I didn’t give a shit, and the shops, in principle, did not have any anti-fraud, and at that time there weren’t even chargebacks a couple of materials, I’ll tell you more, that is.
From AliExpress there was not a single chargeback for several years, that is, until somewhere around 2015, cardholders could not refund their money.
Do carders try not to work in their own country?
Pavlovich:
But you read on forums that carders, for example, try not to work on their side, because it is fraught with, firstly, clashes with the police, someone will write a statement, and secondly, that there is simply no money on Russian cards, and thirdly, that it is not entirely patriotic to rob like that, your own people are poor, and so on. I would like to hear your opinion on this topic.
Carder:
Look, poor people, these are mainly Sberbank cards, we entered large orders mainly, well, how large, that is, from 150, if there were not 150 bucks on them, then, in principle, okay, it was simply skipped and went further. But mainly in 2013, in those years, just before the annexation of this Crimea, this whole topic, when the dollar exchange rate went sharply up, there were such fat balances on Russian material that I don’t know who dreamed of them.
That is, very large, that is, mainly more than 500 thousand rubles from one material could be withdrawn directly on Easy.
And it also happened from debit cards, that is, it was withdrawn from credit cards, and there were minimal blocks, that is, at that time, it seems that either SMS did not work well or that sometimes you could enter a card there.
Pavlovich:
Literally a week later it was entered again, you know what I can say from personal experience that in many banks the SMS transaction notification function is a paid function and you can disable it somewhere, forget to renew somewhere, and so on. For example, on half of my cards it is disabled, there are banks where it is a priori included in the cost of the subscription fee, you know, you don’t worry about it there, you don’t disable anything, in short, after a week, yes, it was possible to enter it again, and there were even cases.
Carder:
That is, when AliExpress, I personally finished 3 months with one card every day. This card was registered either to the producer Alsu, something like that, we simply punched it, well, by first and last name, plus the number, and something like that came out. That is, not 100%, but the last name, first name, patronymic all matched there. That is, there was full billing, that’s it, and that was very interesting.
That is, for three months we really were uploading, we uploaded a lot of these phones. Probably more than 500 from one account, so you understand, 500 times 150. No, some phones, of course, were a fucking refurbishment, some of them broke. That is, for example, some HTC, Nokia and Lumia at that time, they just, well, it happens there, 20 percent of phones just went to the trash, they did not turn on.
Sometimes, the Chinese just put cables in the boxes from parcels.
Pavlovich:
Did they cheat you?
Carder:
Yes, they cheated, it turns out. They did not have chargebacks, that is, refunds from cardholders and so on. But they sent complete crap there. That is, some cables, some other crap. In the last case, they just sent scotch tape instead of a Galaxy S10.
Pavlovich:
Well, if it was your card, would you have done a chargeback? In terms of, well, if you paid from your card, for example, and they sent you some crap, then you open a dispute and so on, for me it's all somehow complicated.
Carder:
I just know that it is very difficult to do all this, I think I would not even do anything, I would try okay, but if there is a large amount, if there is not a large amount, then I just gave up. Well, it happens, and what if I cheated, for me, but this is normal.
Balances on one card, the safest RU-bank?
Pavlovich:
Okay, and we figured out the balances, you say that the Russian cards had the same money as the strange ones, right?
Carder:
Yes, there used to be even more money on them, but it was just, I'm telling you, up until 2015, plus or minus, that is, now, at the moment, in 2019, in 2018, on RU cards only on credit cards, just only on certain bins, like Credit Infinity, Credit Ignitor, that is, only there will be money, mainly on debit cards, but these are lying around, if you take Tinkoff Bank, there, for example, BIN 521324 or 553691, the maximum is lying around them is a hundred, and the minimum is, well, 20-30 rubles, that is, just the same credit limit, that's it. But Tinkoff is great, it does chargebacks very quickly, that is, you don't need to enter any hotels or plane tickets from it, because it will all definitely go to hell, because I once hit some online stores, they sent me a request from the Tinkoff Bank security service, they stupidly forwarded it, that the transaction was not made by the cardholder, but by fraudsters, and you need to provide them with some data, to whom the parcel is, and cancel the transaction, that is, it even happened like that, and that's why Tinkoff goes to certain stores for certain goods.
Pavlovich:
Well, you know about Tinkoff, I filmed a program there about methods of stealing a PIN code, I called Tinkoff, and Alfa, and Sber, well, I just called the call center, checked how the employees there are familiar with this topic, yes. Well, Sber, of course, is the most backward in terms of information security, but Tinkoff was the most advanced, yes.
Carder:
I'll tell you this, the most advanced is Alfa-Bank, that is, if you buy an Alfa-bank, for example, in any online store, well, in any CC-shop, and check it, let it be, this is the same, I don't know, some kind of Lux-checker, something, Electronik Promo, this is the oldest checker, the shittiest, well, with any, in short, checkers, even 3.2-check, it used to, well, in Russia it checked, but now it writes Russia Forbidden, that is, it has banned checking in Siberia, in Russia.
Specifically Alfa, it will always, even if you try to enter it every other day, it will give you a decline, that is, it will refuse to carry out the transaction, that is, at the time of the check it immediately blocks the card, once and for all, that is, it writes Restricted Card, that is, the card is blocked.
Pavlovich:
Alfa used to call me at one or two in the morning, I'm trying to top up the bookmaker company, let's say, yes.
Carder:
On what floor will it get along, right?
Pavlovich:
Yes, but one payment goes through, in short, for example, the second goes through, they call the third, or they already call the second.
Carder:
Yes, that's right. Alfa has the best security in Russia, that's for sure, that's 100%. They have the best security, it seems to me, right in Russia for sure. That is, the same stores, when you enter them, chargebacks come instantly. That is, you need to choose the store that either takes a long time for a chargeback to fly, or at a certain time, that is, for example, after the 30th they count there, well, these transactions and something like that, well, like on a stick, plus or minus, that's it.
How and where did you check the cards?
Pavlovich:
And where did you check the cards, that is, well, of course, you mentioned try to check and so on, but what do they do, that is, they...
Carder:
You register on this site, write the card number, the card date, for example 0621, and the card CO, these are the last digits at the back, and press the "Check" button. That is, you can select the amount there that you can pre-authorize from the card, for example, that is 1 dollar and up to 10 thousand dollars.
Pavlovich:
Well, it's like when you link it somewhere, to Uber or something.
Carder:
Yes, either to PayPal or to Uber, something like that, and there you specify, for example, well, the amount of the write-off, that is, it is something like that, and these services, they stupidly check the presence of this money on the card, that is, if, for example, I wrote 100 dollars there, I wrote it there, it is approved, the card lights up green, it means there are 100 dollars on it, but there are checkers that do not return the money immediately, but return it within some time,
mainly to the card's wheel and do not return it within 30 days, because these are foreign gates.
Pavlovich:
And during this time, the card owner can already notice this.
Carder:
Of course, this is kind of useless, well, you can just check that it is alive and that's it and start entering it, working it off.
Will they search for RU cards?
Pavlovich:
And these issues with the police, for example, you know that they will search there using Russian cards?
Carder:
Well, at one time we made clothes from YOX, ASOS, that's it. Well, and we made them right for our apartments, that's it. And one day we left, literally for the whole day, and we arrive, and there's a note on the door from the local police officer, like, come here and there. And there, a few days before that, we... A courier came to us and brought goods from ASOS.
ASOS is an online clothes store. That's it. At that time, there were very fat limits there. There you could exceed the limit of a thousand euros. That is, no one gave a shit at that time. You could order there, I don't know, they could send these clothes for 300 thousand. That is, without customs, without anything.
That is, it worked out there, DPD, I think, or something like that, SPSR Express, well, it delivered, and they, it turns out, gave the data to the cops, as I understand it.
Pavlovich:
Well, the data on who... Yes, who they delivered it to.
Carder:
That's it, and then they worked for the cops. And the cops mainly worked with Sberbank cards. That is, somehow a person paid off fines, fines can be paid on Yandex.Money, right fines for a car, he paid them off with a Sberbank card, a stranger's friend, yes, he just went and paid them off with a Sberbank card, a stranger, well, and then they just call his relatives, tell the cops where this guy is, let him come to us at the police station for an investigation.
Well, nothing, he came, said that he did nothing, and basically they let him go, that is, as a witness, okay, Basically, this is about Sberbank, because Sberbank does not like to do chargebacks, refunds of funds. I would say that it is better not to work with Sberbank, because it is really a bottle, not a ru-bottle, but specifically Sberbank ru-bottle.
That is, the probability, of course, is high on this topic.
Were you concerned that you could try on "bracelets"?
Pavlovich:
But it is good and you never cared that here you can just try on such bracelets there working in Russia.
Carder:
In general, by the way, no, that is, I am not one of those and I will tell you so, I was not afraid, but there was more adrenaline and more than that you get big money, that is, you can always buy off garbage from garbage, this is Russia from anyone.
Moral aspect
Pavlovich:
Well, probably yes, and look at this moral aspect that you rob there
Carder:
Yes, yes, it happened, but we sometimes even checked Vkontakte cardholders, that is, we looked at who it was, well, basically these, I will say, were some rich kids, mainly Moscow cards St. Petersburg cards, that is, city cards, for example, Chelyabinsk, Kazan, they were all homeless there, well, seriously.
We mainly worked in Moscow and St. Petersburg, well, always. That is, Moscow St. Petersburg cards are always top fat, they are always top people, they are always top money, that is, big money on their balances.
Do shops send to Russia?
Pavlovich:
Well, for example, you sent goods from AliExpress, there, from some other Western stores, like Yugs, you say, there, ASOS, right? Well, of course, this is all stuff carding. And there are some intermediaries there, for example, you can't do it there, you don't have, for example, well, let's say, you're stealing from a foreign store, and you need an address in the same country as the card owner. That is, it turns out you, and you don't have a drop there, let's say, and you don't live there, what are you doing?
Carder:
I didn't quite understand the question, but, that is, what is a foreign online store, for example?
Pavlovich:
Well, the same Yugs or Asos. Or do they send you straight to Russia?
Carder:
I mean, they send to Russia, to RU materials directly to Russia, i.e. they exchange directly.
Pavlovich:
Well, but these intermediary companies like Shopfans and so on use it, they give you a warehouse address, for example, in the USA. What is this for?
Carder:
This is done for bio-American cards. For American cards and for the withdrawal of goods, for example, to RU. Well, as an intermediary. I think everyone understands what we are talking about. But in principle, you can also cash out Russian cards, buying from Russian material, for example, on the same Amazon, sending it to an intermediary in America. And the intermediary in America will send it all to you.
And this security is quite high, in fact, i.e. the trash will definitely not descend on you, if someone is very afraid of this.
Why don't you "beat" America?
Pavlovich:
Well, then why don't they steal from the same Amazon from an American card, for example?
Carder:
Well, because they have a big anti-fraud plus ABC, to get around all this, well, it's more of a pain, and here you just take a RU card and enter it even to an American address, you have a billing, you write Russian, and Amazon cannot verify the billing, well, Russian, you can write any, they will send it to you anyway, you only need a shipping address, and the shipping address can be a shopfans and so on, well, it seems like now, right now Amazon is already very bad at providing goods, that's it.
And these will clearly not be mobile phones, but something like auto parts, something like that, but the goods are not high-risk, not increased dangers.
Pavlovich:
Well, yes, not liquid, in short, you can hear.
Carder:
Yes, well almost not liquid, yes.
About "non-work" on RU
Pavlovich:
Well, you understand that now there will simply be a bunch of active cybercriminals watching there, and they will all hate you there, that is, they will hate you for working on RUs, well, that kind of thing?
Carder:
Well, that's their business, logical.
Pavlovich:
And do they all work on Russia or, well, hiding behind this, we sometimes don't work or not?
Carder:
Of course, yes. No, some, of course, don't work, but basically those who say "we don't work", they tried. And you understand, work is sometimes very simple and easy in fact. That is, you just need to find the material. But the hardest thing in work is sometimes finding this material, because, for example, only I buy it. I can buy it all at once. That is, I pour money into all the shops where it is, by bins and so on.
I just upload it all, and that's why you don't see it anywhere. That is, this material was in the same Uni-CC. I uploaded it approximately every day. Moreover, sometimes 50 cards and 60. That's it. But a month, well, somewhere around half a year ago, he just updated the bin database, and all this was fixed by pre-orders. That's it.
Pavlovich:
In my time, do you know how much one card cost?
How much do CCs cost, where do shops get credit cards from?
Carder:
Well, I think, around a dollar.
Pavlovich:
Well, a dollar, and in large wholesale, there, 25 centimeters.
Carder:
Yes, yes, that was normal at that time, in my time, that's it, at the start, it was approximately the same. That's it.
Pavlovich:
And where are the shops, where do shops get the material that they sell, there, these stolen credit card numbers?
Carder:
Shops, well, look, they have either sniffers on some sites, that is, they hack them and replace the gate. Well, that is, the payment post-page, for example, is there, built into the site, that is, not separate, for example, where it sends you, for example, look, you can pay on some site, you are transferred to Yandex.Money, where you already play on the Yandex site. Yes, or in Robocast, that is, it does not work like that, that is, it must be some kind of frame, and in this frame you can already do something with the help of code.
So, it turns out that you upload ShelfShop, and there you fiddle with the code, and, in principle, it works either like this, that is, you make a sniffcard, or you make your own fake shop, sell some goods on it, for example, something cheap, maybe throw in some winnings. In short, some simple crap, and that's it, and you make a payment there, one dollar in the end for something, I don't know, on sale, on discount.
I think most people would pay, even me, just to check, why not.
Pavlovich:
Well, some bracelet, tights, well, something cheap.
Carder:
Yes, and there are 10 tights for 1 dollar. Socks. Yes, everyone would buy panties, the very best socks.
Speaker?:
That's it.
Pavlovich:
And just save the card details at the time of payment,
Carder:
Yes, no. Well, the shops save the card data and then, naturally, sell them. That is, it works like this. But basically, the main shops that sell the material, that is, well, there are a lot of them, they delete it, that is, they don’t delete it, they specifically block this country, Russia, for issuance, that is, in the shop itself, in the admin panel, they have the option to delete these cards, naturally, they have them all.
Naturally, they process some of these cards themselves, this is 100% information, but they process, for example, on VVP Credit Infinity, that is, until now, for example, Citibank has credit cards and three transactions can be made on them without 3D-Secure, that is, you can pour 100 thousand rubles into the same local bitcoin three times. Pavlovich
:
But for this you first need to know what organisms.
Carder:
What bins, what banks, what types of cards, even the same VTB is available without 3D-Secure at the moment in 2019, that is, there are such cards, they are very rare, and this is probably one in 500, one in 1000, but they exist.
What is the most unusual product you have ordered?
Pavlovich:
Some kind of most unusual product, maybe the one you ordered with stolen credit cards?
Carder:
An unusual product? Well, I once ordered quite a bit, well, probably half a year ago, maybe a bit more of an embosser for plastic. That is, a printer, an embosser, I ordered all of that, they sent it. Customs detained it all, I didn’t even bother to clear anything through customs.
Pavlovich:
Why? They took it for customs clearance, right?
Carder:
Most likely, the limit of 500 euros was simply exceeded, because we bought it all on AliExpress, when Ali had no limits, i.e. it was giving 80 and 90 there. I bought it all by EMS mail, went, and it was all detained. Although it was sent to different addresses, to different names, that is, instead of, for example, the word Alexander, you can write Sasha, Sanek, Oliksandr in Ukrainian.
Something like that, you can add some numbers. But they still detained the goods, most likely, on suspicion of something. Most likely, I don’t know why, but it’s clearly not because of the customs limit. Because we’ve always solved these issues very well. That is, changing the address, changing the letters, changing the postal code to any. That is, you can write to the post office, well, any postal zip code, it will arrive there, even if it’s incorrect, they will forward it to your post office, to which you ordered.
That is, it will all reach you via redirects.
Pavlovich:
Well, because in my time, you know, I bought goods in Western stores using fake cards, just like you, but I didn’t have, for example, Belarus in the delivery country. That is, I wrote in Germany, and there I wrote in Belarusian German. The American shop doesn’t know German, and the Germans, when this parcel arrives to them, they saw that the person had mixed up the address and sent it to us this way.
Carder:
Yes, and there was also the case with AliExpress, just for fun, and sometimes Belarusian cards, it turns out, also worked with them. And they wrote in the country of receipt, that is, the country of Belarus, namely in the second line of the address they wrote Russian Federation, and the goods actually reached Russia. They actually reached.
Pavlovich:
But just a little longer.
Carder:
It all took about 3-4 months. A very long time. I forgot about it. Then at the post office they just tell me. Oops, a parcel. I look, and the address is Belarus. Russian Federation. Oh, I remembered. Everything was delivered. Nobody opened anything. Customs didn’t check anything. Although, as far as I know, Belarus has very small import limits. That is, it seems that you can’t even bring a vape there that costs more than 20 dollars.
That’s not certain.
Pavlovich:
22 euros.
Carder:
22 euros, yes.
Pavlovich:
Well, 22 euros without customs clearance. But now they’re raising it.
Carder:
Well, that’s not certain. But it turns out that I sent goods to friends in Belarus and customs did arrest them, it turns out. I don’t know how it worked. Well, I detained them in Russian.
Clashes with the police, how can I get a parcel using fake data?
Pavlovich:
Well, it was delayed so that you would pay for the postage there. Well, that's all. It was 22 euros until recently. Now they are going to raise it. Or maybe they have already raised it so that there would be more. But still not to the Russian level, there is something like a thousand dollars, yes, approximately. And clashes with the police, that is, when working on RU, material?
Carder:
I'll tell you this, one material out of a thousand shoots.
Pavlovich:
What do you mean shoots?
Carder:
Well, the cops shoot once out of a thousand entries, that is, out of a thousand cards, for example, that is, these are purely my statistics for all this time. This is 100%, the cops do not like to work in Russia, that's for sure. That is, I have most likely entered more than 10 thousand materials. So, so to speak, maybe even more. And during this time, probably, well, 7 cops came.
Well, how did they come? Some of them... Most likely, they came more times, but since the addresses on the parcels were just randomly indicated, then, in principle, they had nowhere to go. And now at Russian Post they mostly accept parcels by SMS. I think you know, right?
Pavlovich:
Do they accept them by SMS or what?
Carder:
By SMS, yes. That is, you register at Russian Post, enter your phone number, your passport, come, say your phone number, and they give you the parcel when the Post Office sends you a code. That is, you dictate to the postwoman who is sitting at the checkout, she checks the code, the code is confirmed, she gives you the parcel, that is, you don’t even have to show your passport.
Pavlovich:
I haven’t done that, and I have to carry my passport with me, I just have to fill in my passport details every time.
Carder:
I understand, it's about your notifications, we did the same thing, absolutely, only on the notifications we wrote passport series 12345678, issued there on 10, I don't know, 10 1995, for example. That is, it worked like this, that is, all this data was written just out of thin air. And it always worked. The main thing is that the postwoman doesn't check it.
She won't check it, that is, if you behave adequately there, not like a fool standing at the post office, there, I don't know, scared of the report and so on.
Speaker?:
Here.
Pavlovich:
Well, at my post office, it seems, responsible employees work, because they constantly check the passport.
Carder:
Depends on where this post office is located.
Pavlovich:
Well, in Moscow.
Carder:
Well. And this is not Moscow, it turns out that this is already Russia.
Pavlovich:
Ah, I get it, that is, you, well, that is, the human factor, right?
Carder:
The human factor, yes. And all the post offices in the city, in principle, worked before. That is, and with courier services, that is, for example, EMS, well, SDEK, Pony Express, courier service, you can send directly to the cardholder's name and pick up directly according to his data.
Pavlovich:
How is that?
Carder:
Usually you just take and randomly write the data of who you want to send to, that is, I, for example, can send a parcel directly by writing, there, Sergey Pavlovich, there is the address of Pushkin Street, for example, Moscow, okay, And there the phone number is also randomly, the zip code is also randomly. Everything will come to the office, for example, of SDAC or Pony Express. We just go to scanlab.Cc. Well, this is a rendering service.
I think many people know it too. Here, for 5 dollars we will render your passport. Just, I don’t know, with my face too. And we download the picture with the passport to our phone. We come, show, take. Yes, we take the parcel. This is a drawing in fact, you had a release about the drawer.
Pavlovich:
Yes, Kolya had a drawer, he has his own service there, he draws something too.
Carder:
Yes, this is not even a fake, it's just a photo.
Pavlovich:
By the way, I consulted with the cops after this release, I spoke at a conference in Minsk on banking security. And I had my former investigator there at that conference. He now heads the Minsk office of "Group-IB". Do you know such a company? He works there from glasses.
Speaker 4:
I think I heard something.
Pavlovich:
Well, these are cybercrime detectives, only not the cops, but a private company. In short, they investigate all sorts of cyber incidents all over the world. And now, when there was vote rigging, when there was a vote before the LSU glasses, do you remember that?
Carder:
Well, when they rigged it with SMS.
Pavlovich:
Yes, when they rigged it with SMS, they too...
Carder:
They burned it all, it's all burned by heart, most likely the same series, SIM cards, etc., it's all working in one region.
Pavlovich:
Physical, did you make a fake passport on a printer, or did you just draw it and show the scan, right? That is, if you have already used it, that is, you actually misled another person, it doesn't matter whether you showed a physical passport or an electronic one, and according to Belarusian laws this is prosecuted. So, it seems to me, it is possible under Russian laws as well. That is, you need to be careful with this, naturally.
Carder:
Well, perhaps yes, but for now everything works in Russia, but not in Belarus, like you, as they say.
Pavlovich:
But no one works there, it seems to me, from the carder.
Carder:
What's the point, 22 euros.
Are you afraid of prison?
Pavlovich:
Are you afraid of prison at all? Have you ever thought about the fact that you could be put in jail?
Carder:
There was a case, that is, I ordered from ru-material. It turns out, the store... Well, with the goods, it turns out, I picked it up. But I paid for it, received my material through the stick, i.e. PayPal.
Pavlovich:
Did you link the card?
Carder:
Yes, I linked it, paid, the payment was successful, but one of the goods was delayed for literally 30 days. And I picked it up after 30 days, and they asked me for my passport. I gave my passport because I really needed this product, like, really badly. So, I gave it, they scanned something there, I hammered out nonsense, what the hell are you going to prove. Well, in that style, brush it off and leave.
And then the traffic police simply stop me, and they take me to the department. They take me to another city, because the owner of the store was from another city, that's it. And that's it, and they try to close me down there, but everything ended very successfully, I can tell you. I got off with nothing.
A refund. To the store owner and that's it. That is, no one ever found out about any stick, or any... No one ever found out about any cardholders who suffered losses. That is, they thought it was my card and my stick.
Pavlovich:
But this is the only case, yes, in your career, when you encountered trash?
Carder:
Not the only one. I know, there were cases when they came to the addresses of droppers. But it turns out they were looking for me, because at one time I was hissing at myself. That is, the trash comes about 4 months after you have conjured something to the address. It happens, it happens very rarely, but it was a long time ago, that is, this year there was nothing like this.
That is, the cops just come and ask if such and such lives here, they are told no, he doesn't. They are like okay and leave and that's it, I think the case is closed for them, that is, I don't know exactly how things are going there, but most likely it is closed, what should they do, he doesn't live, he doesn't live, the whole case is closed, they write a response, another city, most likely from which the application on this topic came, and that's it, the case is closed there, the holder is closed, in principle. Either the bank returns the money to him, or he sucks it off.
That's how it is, in Russian.
Pavlovich:
That is, if a Russian person has money stolen from his card, no one will return anything to him?
Carder:
Exactly in Sberbank, most likely 50/50. That is, VTB will return it, Alfa will definitely return it. I can list other banks that will definitely return it. I have serious doubts about Raiffeisenbank, because refunds from Raiffeisenbank very rarely did not come at all, that is, most likely, the refund depends on the holder, that is, if he writes directly to the shop where the money was stolen, then the shop will most likely return and cancel the order.
And if the holder contacts, for example, the bank, to return the funds, everything will be very slow in the bank, and most likely, all the shops will send, it turns out, the goods, I will take it, for example, my drops will take it, and everything will be okay. And if the holder contacts the store directly, then the order will be immediately canceled and the money will be returned. That is, if, for example, your money was stolen from the card to many stores, just write directly to these stores, attaching screenshots of the transactions that are, and the money will be returned.
Probably 99.9%, if this does not throw online keys and so on.
Pavlovich:
Well, there is another factor here, that they won't have time to send the order, for example, there, yes, and they will simply, well, cancel it and that's it.
Speaker?:
In the plan?
Pavlovich:
Well, you say, write to the stores, that is, you ordered from my credit card, stole my credit card, let's say, you ordered from Wildberries, for example, from it.
Carder:
Wildberries.
Pavlovich:
Well, or from Lamoda.
Carder:
Wildberries, by the way, gave it from a stick, because of me they turned it off. Well, I unloaded a few phones from them, by the way, La Moda also had 3D Secure, it didn't exist before, but they also loaded clothes from it, up to 6 thousand, true, but it was like for finishing, for a postamat, in principle, and why not, also money by the penny, you collect everything, it turns out normal, that is, it doesn't matter what you stole, that is.
Let's steal it first, and then figure out whether we need it or not, that is, I act like this.
Have you worked anywhere, what are your plans for life?
Pavlovich:
Have you ever been involved in some kind of legal business?
Carder:
No, I've never done anything at all. Or maybe I've worked anywhere? I've never worked anywhere.
Pavlovich:
You don't think so?
Carder:
Not yet.
Pavlovich:
What are your plans for life?
Carder:
I don't have any plans yet either, I'm still thinking about it. But it's time to move into something legal, but I need to come up with something that will really blow something up, because I don't like any topic where there are some flaws, some pitfalls, I want everything to work right away. For example, you entered it in a certain store, they sent it all, you received it all, you know in advance 100% that everything is okay.
And so I want the same thing in a legal business, for all this to happen.
Do your parents know what you do?
Pavlovich:
Do your parents know what you do?
Speaker?:
No.
Pavlovich:
And they ask where the money came from?
Carder:
I don't talk to him.
Pavlovich:
Do you have a girlfriend there, a wife?
Carder:
None.
Pavlovich:
Well, that's easier, right?
Carder:
Well, it's actually easier, yeah.
Pavlovich:
It removes a lot of questions.
Carder:
Actually, yes.
What will make you stop?
Pavlovich:
Look, when are you going to stop, when are you going to stop doing cybercrime there? I mean, what do you need for that? For the cops to stop you tomorrow or what? Or do you need a million dollars to be happy?
Carder:
Yes, you see, it seems to me that it's become more of a habit, I think you can't live without it for a while, but it's time to quit it, and over time, you'll still... I've forgotten a lot about this topic this year, I mean, I worked literally a few months this year, I just kicked the bucket and relaxed. I mean, I was chilling, everything was okay.
Pavlovich:
In short, it will just fade away, right?
Carder:
I think it will all come to naught with time. I mean, it will come to everyone anyway. You won't be hammering out room material there until you're 60, or hammering out anything at all, well, that's idiotic, you know. I mean, in any case, you'll go into legal business someday. Or not legal, but some other business, but it will clearly not be related to this.
What do you dream about?
Pavlovich:
And what do you dream about?
Carder:
I don't have any specific dream, it's all still in the process.
Why did you come? Addressing the reader.
Pavlovich:
Let's do it then, I usually ask this at the beginning of the interview? But now you just tell the viewer yourself, alone for half a minute, why you came. I'm not asking why you're wearing a mask, why, right? That is, it's clear to everyone, well, because you're acting as a cybercriminal. But just tell the viewer, not me, why you came. And what do you want there, some other words there, what parting words?
Carder:
I came purely to see myself, well, I don't know, purely to come to Moscow on business, well, yes, basically, that's it. I wanted to see how it all happens here, how it all works, because I've never seen it, that's it. In fact, that's it. That is, there is no such goal here as showing off, showing something to someone, proving something, because I'm in Moscow, that's it.
Something like that.
Pavlovich:
And to this it remains to be added, yes, as many come. Well, I teach this business here and there and there.
Speaker 4:
There is no training. Everything comes.
Is it possible to learn carding? How to feel like a sucker?
Pavlovich:
Is it possible to learn carding? That's how these guys are selling a whole bunch of training on the Internet. Here's your weighty opinion.
Speaker?:
My opinion...
Carder:
Well, guys, you can just go to the site, I don't know, MTS is there and top up your phone number. Carding is absolutely the same. You can order things from AliExpress, things from EBE. That is, absolutely the same, only, for example, you can use a different IP address there, for example, the same browser sphere for, for example, the country of the cardholder, and that's it, and everything will work, using, of course, intermediaries, that is, the addresses of intermediaries, they are in Europe, and in the USA, in Germany, so, and do not work according to RUCC, so, you will be put on a bottle.
Pavlovich:
But you weren't jailed.
Carder:
Well, not in these almost 10 years. Well, this is Russia, I think.
Pavlovich:
All this and don't work in Russia, in short, we buy carding training or not or it's not worth it.
Carder:
If you have money, you can buy it just to feel like a sucker, but in terms of development, but especially if someone wants, it's better to do it yourself, namely, to study some of these moments yourself, that is, you have to learn all sorts of tricks, for example, shops, tricks, how to enter, from what IP address, from what ISP and so on.
That is, for each store there is, for example, the same Beeline, it will not work, from it AliExpress will give some kind of app, well, an app is, for example, well, in short, the store simply will not give the goods, that is, it will write an error, the transaction was interrupted, there, fraud, okay, provide documents. And, for example, if you enter, for example, from Rostelecom, then the transaction goes through, and everything is okay, everything is sent.
Pavlovich:
And in my time, you see, even this was not necessary, they did not even bother with changing the IP, not to mention the Internet.
Carder:
Well, in my time, just before '17, probably, everything worked very simply, that is, I did not know what a sphere was, did not know what a multi-login was, well, now I work only with them, no other way.
Pavlovich:
Hello, thank you for coming. Anyway, guys, you see, active cybercriminals come and tell their stories, but I think that he was lucky, yes, he was not imprisoned and maybe he will not be imprisoned, I was unlucky in my time, I had huge earnings there, well, I don’t know, well, at the peak I had 100 thousand dollars a month, but that was at the peak, well, all I earned during my criminal career was a million 200 dollars, but if you divide it by 10 years, which I actually had to do for it, yes, it turns out that my earnings there were 120 thousand dollars a year.
Carder:
Do you have any money left from cybercrime in general?
Pavlovich:
Well, I have left from everything, I managed to save, probably, 30 percent.
Carder:
Well, did you keep the money, for example, in Liberty Reserve? Liberty Reserve, yes, I think he mentioned it.
Pavlovich:
No, back then I had E-gold, WebMoney. It's like Liberty, only.
Carder:
That was before, and the same founder too.
About criminal money
Pavlovich:
I had E-gold, WebMoney, but basically all the money was in cash. But what I mean is that, in general, yes, you're not ready for it yet at that time, you don't know how to spend it, you don't know how, let's say, to make some assets out of it, that is, you don't know how to invest it somewhere, and accordingly everything goes towards the high life, whores, expensive cars, trips somewhere to the Maldives, Seychelles, and stuff like that.
Carder:
You need to know how to spend money, and that also comes with time, no other way.
Pavlovich:
That's why, if you count it that way, I have 120 thousand dollars a year, and that kind of money can be earned legally in any case. That is, it's not worth sitting for 10 years, so do business instead, don't get involved in any crime. He was lucky, I was not, you might be even more unlucky.
How their drops were accepted, how they carded iPhones from Ozon and other large stores and auto parts, how bandits pressured them and once the cops accepted them, for what they managed to pay off and much more.
Be sure to write in the comments what you think of today's hero, as well as how ethical it is to work in Russia.
Enjoy reading!
Contents:
- Who's visiting?
- How did you get into carding, the first visit of the FSB
- What happened next?
- Where did you get the "material"?
- How much did you earn from selling phones and carding?
- What is BIN, what does it affect?
- Why did you use RU material?
- Do carders try not to work in their own country?
- Balances on one card, the safest RU-bank?
- How and where did you check the cards?
- Will they search using RU maps?
- Were you concerned that you could try on the "bracelets"?
- Moral aspect
- Do shops send to Russia?
- Why don't you "beat" America?
- About "non-work" in RU
- How much do CCs cost, where do shops get credit cards?
- What is the most unusual item you have ever ordered?
- Clashes with the police, how to receive a parcel using fake data?
- Are you afraid of prison?
- Have you worked anywhere? What are your plans for life?
- Do your parents know what you do?
- What will make you stop?
- What do you dream about?
- Why did you come? An appeal to the reader.
- Is it possible to learn carding? How to feel like a loser?
- About criminal money
Pavlovich:
Those who work on ru, they come to them in the morning.
Carder:
The FSB came to the guy who sold the SIM cards. And I didn't give a shit, and the shops, in principle, did not have any anti-fraud.
Pavlovich:
It is critical to rob anyway, the poor are their own people and so on.
Carder:
On Russian material there were such fat balances that, I don't know, there, the cops come somewhere in about four months, just to feel like a sucker.
Who is visiting
Pavlovich:
Friends, hello! Today there will be a continuation of the story with the carder, only this time with an active carder, as if far from a newbie. And moreover, for you, probably, this will be a revelation, but with someone who worked specifically in Russia. You know this saying, those who work on ru, they come to him in the morning.
How did you get into carding, the first visit of the FSB
Pavlovich:
Well, you worked in Russia and in general this is quite unusual. How did you get into carding in the first place?
Carder:
I was sitting at home, browsing the Internet, found something on how to make money. I mean, I'm not from a particularly rich family. And I decided to get involved somehow, found some topic, some cards on the Internet. It was the Carder.Life forum, it was probably 2012. I found some American cards there, either Chase or something else, and decided to add to my name, for example, Money.Yandex.Ru mobile phone.
Damn, I don't care, they were posting free lists on the forum, well, distributing material, and I decided to try to forget about it. I succeeded, the payment of 250 rubles was successfully completed. I was surprised, everything was okay. Here.
Without an SMS? Without an SMS, without anything. I mean, no, I was spinning 3D from Chase, but there is processing there, and that's it. I mean, what is it called there? Well, VBV autopass. Here. Something like that. Here. Then more, more. That is, 500 rubles already, then 1000. Then, it turns out, you can also get 3, and after 3, it seems, they already gave out 50 dollars, that you will refresh your account with the bank.
Pavlovich:
Did you top up your phone?
Carder:
Yes, first mine. I even made mine on the Internet. Here. The operator was Megafon. Here. And on some fine day, when I was there, well, I did this for about a week, I ran out of SIM cards, and something was blocked there, it seems, something was not working.
So, an SMS comes in the morning, hello, you have been denied service due to fraud or some other such thing and that's it, and the SIM card went offline, that is, I already woke up, it was offline, the last SMS.
Pavlovich:
Well, the operator blocked it, right?
Carder:
Well, yes, then I bought it.
Pavlovich:
Another operator, again for himself, here. So what, did you top up? Did you top up another operator in exactly the same way with Vargon?
Carder:
Yes, I topped up other operators. It turns out I continued to surf the forums, look for this free material, enter it. I didn't have any checkers, that is, nothing. It was all by trial and error. That is, again, in the same Yandex.Money. Some were rejected, some went through. Somehow it all worked. Somehow we ran out of SIM cards to which to deposit money. And a friend of mine had a buddy who worked, it turns out, for one of the mobile operators.
We came to him. We said, register SIM cards for us. He registered SIM cards for us. We paid him with two bottles of beer. We received the SIM cards and left. I successfully processed them.
Pavlovich:
How do you withdraw money, do you deposit it from the left card to the SIM card, did you withdraw it somewhere?
Carder:
There was a withdrawal at that time, there was PayYota.Ru, I think, that was a service, now, probably, few people remember it. That is, like PayMTS.Ru, PayMegafon.Ru, payment from a mobile account, that was back in 2012 or something, back in 2013 it was still on Yota. That's it. Then, naturally, it all closed down, apparently, because of people like us.
And at some point, as we were hugging all these SIM cards, my buddy calls me and says that the FSB guys came to the guy who sold the SIM cards. The FSB guys just came. I'm like, well, that's cool. That's it. As it turns out, they were looking for the guy he sold these SIM cards to. Yeah, the SIM cards were registered there to Lenin, there to Pushkin and so on, that is, well, it's just crazy, well, well, and with that situation, in short, nothing was done to him, it seems he was either fired or something, and as for me too, that is, I was not acquainted with him at all, and the dude did not leak to me, that's it.
Pavlovich:
Well, lucky that he did not leak yet. Well, okay, and how much did you manage to make on that scam?
Carder:
In the region, probably 150 thousand rubles at that time. For me, that was a lot of money, just, well, crazy.
Pavlovich:
Well, about 5 thousand dollars.
Carder:
At that time, probably, yes, I did not yet count in dollars at that time.
What happened after?
Pavlovich:
And what happened after?
Carder:
I had a buddy, so, and he and I, in short, decided, well, I decided to tell him about this topic, so, and we started working together. We found stores, it was already a luxury shop at that time. I think, if I'm not mistaken. Well, Uproot worked, and it turned out that at that time there was US-material, that is, it all went according to US-material, well.
And we somehow entered it into the Russian shop and it turned out that there was either an HTC Wildfire S, or some other, well, cheap phone at that time, but a tramp one.
Pavlovich:
In America?
Carder:
No. In the Russian store, through the Robokassa gate, it was all there. Everything flew in easily.
Pavlovich:
Also without an SMS?
Carder:
Yes, without an SMS.
Where did you get the "material"?
Pavlovich:
Look, okay, it doesn't take much effort to enter a credit card, phone or laptop in a Russian store, especially if it gives you one without an SMS, but where did you get the material itself?
Carder:
So, we got the material itself from online stores, it turns out that at that time it was Susan, Pricebenches, maybe someone remembers, and will shed a tear, so to speak. We saw that there was True Material, that is, Russian Federation, there were more than 500 of them, and updates were literally every week. And at that time, 3D-Secure was almost nowhere to be found.
That is, 3D-Secure is SMS protection. That is, at that time, only Sberbank, I think, provided it. Because there were a couple more banks. That is, UTB did not exist, UNKB did not exist. There was, I think, USIT at that time. 90% of banks simply did not have it. And we decided to pour money into it.
At that time it was Liberty Reserve, so we invested, either through Qiwi, damn, I don't even remember what we invested through, in short, somehow we invested in Liberty, invested it all in the store, and tried to buy material, that is, I still had some SIM cards left, maybe we bought some more there somehow, I don't remember exactly, so we bought VTB, it turns out, and tried to upload to Megafon there, it seems there was a 10 thousand ruble limit, we enter 10 thousand, and the payment flies away successfully, that is, there are 10 thousand rubles on the SIM card, another 10 thousand rubles limit, it seems there was 30 thousand rubles at that time specifically on VTB.
It used to be more on MKB. We uploaded to Abiline, that is 15 plus 15, it seems there plus 15 three times 15, it came out to 45, but that was already like this.
Pavlovich:
Others not with VTB material with replenishment via phone, that's clear, that's purchases there.
Carder:
The store, that's when the material ended because well, we worked it out literally quickly entered everything, that's when we started to rise little by little, that's there was material left with 3D-secure, that is, with SMS, and we didn't know where to put it. That is, it just lay stupidly in the shop and lay, that is... Well, and I once tried to enter AliExpress, that is, everyone knows this Chinese store where they sell phones and other junk, that's it.
We tried to do it, I did it directly to my address, delivery by EMS mail, that's it. Straight to my home, straight to my apartment, straight to the floor, that is, everything was okay. And they ordered, up to 150 dollars gave simply, well, very simply. That is, we entered, op, payment successful.
We entered again, payment successful, and so it was possible to hammer it up to 15 times, that is, 150 bucks.
Pavlovich:
So the main thing is that the transaction is no more than $150, right?
Carder:
Yes. But, as I understand it, it was possible to do 30, I just haven't tried more, that's it. But this is all from Russian cards, this is all from Sberbank and others, there was Citibank, what else was there, there were many banks, some of them have already closed, some of them had 3D, in short, we killed them, we killed all the rest, we entered it turns out to be a top-up, etc., etc., etc., but for example, I buy something from AliExpress from my Sberbank
Pavlovich:
Even today, yes, it often doesn't ask for an SMS, then they top up the hosting, there, they pay for their sites, they also don't ask for an SMS, that is, perhaps, there, and now it works up to a certain limit?
Carder:
No, it doesn't work anymore, because it's all been screwed up, really badly, but Ali has its own nuances, for example, on 11.11, or on Ali's birthday, you could enter a bunch of materials there for 80 grand from one SC, without even linking it to self-registration.
Well, you self-register an account, that is, you register it yourself, your IP, well, not your IP, but you get it through a proxy, through sfera or something, so that the fingerprint, so that everything is according to feng shui, as they say, that's it.
Pavlovich:
Well, what am I saying about allegory, that is, I mean that even now it doesn't always ask for 3D, that is... No matter how much I pay for something on Ali, I always have no SMS.
Carder:
Well, for small amounts, now, I think, I have information that Ali Express now gives up to three, somewhere before thirty, three thousand rubles, but this is generally nothing, there is no point in beating him at all, setting something up, his ass, there, in the ass of drops. This happened literally 4 months ago, probably, after the sale. That is, Ali was 9 or 10 years old at the time of the sale, 9 I think.
And after it, everything was immediately fixed.
How much did they earn from selling phones, carding.
Pavlovich:
Well, okay, you were hammering mobile operators, right? You withdrew money through them, through AliExpress. So there was a lot in this way?
Carder:
No, we hammered mobile operators and withdrew money from mobile operators to bank cards. That is, to our own, to Qiwi, the same one, got it. And from AliExpress we stupidly received rates, phones, and stupidly sold them. At that time, it was HTC, refurbished phones installed. And at that time, people did not know what refurbished phones were, and we sold them as new.
That is, at a price higher than even on AliExpress. That's how it all happened. And we made pretty good money on it. That is, we sometimes picked up 40 phones a day from one post office. And plus there is EMS, delivery, a courier brought some things that are purely for the home, something like that.
The same with a phone. Different, in short, they ordered like this. Basically, these were mobile phones, because they are the most liquid.
Pavlovich:
Easy to sell.
Carder:
Easy to sell, yes, even now. But now people don’t have the money, I’ll tell you this, to sell for, well, 60 percent, in principle, Avito will take it all from you. Because this is a Eurotest, and people now really like the growth test and really fuck with people’s brains on Avito, on Yula.
Pavlovich:
And how long did you work with cellular equipment and AliExpress?
Carder:
How long? Damn, well, until VTB introduced normal 3D, because they didn’t introduce it for a long time, it seems to me, for 2 years, in 2014 maybe, they only introduced it in 2015, really adequate 3D, and sometimes it’s still not there, or it’s on privilege level cards, maybe they turn it off.
How much did we withdraw, it turns out, or how much did we earn?
Pavlovich:
Well, how much did we earn, yes, over the entire time?
Carder:
Over the entire time? Well, at that time it was probably more than two million for phones, literally for, probably, half a year. And half of the money for mobile phones was spent on all sorts of expenses, cafeterias, barterers, something like that.
Pavlovich:
Well, that is, we can conclude that at that rate it was probably 1,100 dollars for six months.
Carder:
1,100 dollars.
Pavlovich:
Well, if 2 million and then from these operators.
Carder:
Well, in my opinion, it was all spent there, thrown back, you understand. That is, the material there was not particularly expensive at that time, but there was also invalid content and checkers did not work there, that is.
Pavlovich:
And by the way, how much did the Russian material cost and was it cheaper than American cards?
Carder:
At that time, American cards, it seems to me, cost around, probably, 3 dollars, and ROM material, probably, cost 5-6, there, depending on Billing, with a Billing address, that is, for a shop it matters, that is, for me, for example, it doesn’t, that is, the date, the COV number and that’s it are important, that is, I don’t need more, well, and over time, all this began, naturally, to become more expensive.
That is, now Russian material can be sold for 100 dollars, and there USA is now for 15, for 25. The same Voltmarket, I think everyone knows it, there Russian material costs around 50 somewhere. It turns out that USA costs there, probably, from 5 to 25, sometimes 35.
Well, depending on the base. Here is the average price now, well, Russian material, about 40 bucks, well, this is in this particular store. There are other stores where you can look for Russian material, naturally, by bins. Here, bins are the first six digits. That is, there are bins that, for example, banks do not update their database. Well, in a timely manner, just like CC Shop does not update.
That is, for example, Tinkoff issued its card. Well, a new bank, it turns out, a new card. It has, for example, BIN 553691, and if you enter it, for example, in a USA store, well, in the USA, well, in the shop where they sell USA CC, it will give a really big list of these cards, and this will be true material, and not USA, at least in the CC shop it will be written that it is USA.
Pavlovich:
I recently looked there for cashback, I pay someone on Tinkoff for some reason they often identify me as Taiwan, in general, that is, Taiwan, then Australia commercial some bank, I don’t remember anymore, apparently you know just Tinkoff, when the new bank appeared, they took these free bins from those banks that no longer exist, and in databases like Visa Interchange directors and MasterCard, they are listed as foreign banks, and what, what does this affect?
Carder:
What do you mean, what does this affect?
What is BIN, what does it affect?
Pavlovich:
Well, what does BIN affect? That is, bin in general, well, for me, bin has always been just to determine the type of card.
Carder:
No, well, bin is what you get from it, what country it is, what bank, what level of the card, that is, if it is a loan, then it is cool, if it is a debit card, then you can leave it for later, mainly credit cards are entered, so we entered them, because they have a larger balance. For the remainder, there are some beach donations, some donation alert, and you can finish there, some debit cards,
specifically the debit level, and so on.
Why did you use RU material?
Pavlovich:
Why did you use Russian material? Because it went through better, right, or why?
Carder:
For Russian material at that time, that is, at that time I worked, it turns out, from a laptop, from a mobile, it turns out, a modem, it was iota, and, well, I didn’t even know what the sphere was there, all these browsers for anonymity and so on, and I didn’t give a shit, and the shops, in principle, did not have any anti-fraud, and at that time there weren’t even chargebacks a couple of materials, I’ll tell you more, that is.
From AliExpress there was not a single chargeback for several years, that is, until somewhere around 2015, cardholders could not refund their money.
Do carders try not to work in their own country?
Pavlovich:
But you read on forums that carders, for example, try not to work on their side, because it is fraught with, firstly, clashes with the police, someone will write a statement, and secondly, that there is simply no money on Russian cards, and thirdly, that it is not entirely patriotic to rob like that, your own people are poor, and so on. I would like to hear your opinion on this topic.
Carder:
Look, poor people, these are mainly Sberbank cards, we entered large orders mainly, well, how large, that is, from 150, if there were not 150 bucks on them, then, in principle, okay, it was simply skipped and went further. But mainly in 2013, in those years, just before the annexation of this Crimea, this whole topic, when the dollar exchange rate went sharply up, there were such fat balances on Russian material that I don’t know who dreamed of them.
That is, very large, that is, mainly more than 500 thousand rubles from one material could be withdrawn directly on Easy.
And it also happened from debit cards, that is, it was withdrawn from credit cards, and there were minimal blocks, that is, at that time, it seems that either SMS did not work well or that sometimes you could enter a card there.
Pavlovich:
Literally a week later it was entered again, you know what I can say from personal experience that in many banks the SMS transaction notification function is a paid function and you can disable it somewhere, forget to renew somewhere, and so on. For example, on half of my cards it is disabled, there are banks where it is a priori included in the cost of the subscription fee, you know, you don’t worry about it there, you don’t disable anything, in short, after a week, yes, it was possible to enter it again, and there were even cases.
Carder:
That is, when AliExpress, I personally finished 3 months with one card every day. This card was registered either to the producer Alsu, something like that, we simply punched it, well, by first and last name, plus the number, and something like that came out. That is, not 100%, but the last name, first name, patronymic all matched there. That is, there was full billing, that’s it, and that was very interesting.
That is, for three months we really were uploading, we uploaded a lot of these phones. Probably more than 500 from one account, so you understand, 500 times 150. No, some phones, of course, were a fucking refurbishment, some of them broke. That is, for example, some HTC, Nokia and Lumia at that time, they just, well, it happens there, 20 percent of phones just went to the trash, they did not turn on.
Sometimes, the Chinese just put cables in the boxes from parcels.
Pavlovich:
Did they cheat you?
Carder:
Yes, they cheated, it turns out. They did not have chargebacks, that is, refunds from cardholders and so on. But they sent complete crap there. That is, some cables, some other crap. In the last case, they just sent scotch tape instead of a Galaxy S10.
Pavlovich:
Well, if it was your card, would you have done a chargeback? In terms of, well, if you paid from your card, for example, and they sent you some crap, then you open a dispute and so on, for me it's all somehow complicated.
Carder:
I just know that it is very difficult to do all this, I think I would not even do anything, I would try okay, but if there is a large amount, if there is not a large amount, then I just gave up. Well, it happens, and what if I cheated, for me, but this is normal.
Balances on one card, the safest RU-bank?
Pavlovich:
Okay, and we figured out the balances, you say that the Russian cards had the same money as the strange ones, right?
Carder:
Yes, there used to be even more money on them, but it was just, I'm telling you, up until 2015, plus or minus, that is, now, at the moment, in 2019, in 2018, on RU cards only on credit cards, just only on certain bins, like Credit Infinity, Credit Ignitor, that is, only there will be money, mainly on debit cards, but these are lying around, if you take Tinkoff Bank, there, for example, BIN 521324 or 553691, the maximum is lying around them is a hundred, and the minimum is, well, 20-30 rubles, that is, just the same credit limit, that's it. But Tinkoff is great, it does chargebacks very quickly, that is, you don't need to enter any hotels or plane tickets from it, because it will all definitely go to hell, because I once hit some online stores, they sent me a request from the Tinkoff Bank security service, they stupidly forwarded it, that the transaction was not made by the cardholder, but by fraudsters, and you need to provide them with some data, to whom the parcel is, and cancel the transaction, that is, it even happened like that, and that's why Tinkoff goes to certain stores for certain goods.
Pavlovich:
Well, you know about Tinkoff, I filmed a program there about methods of stealing a PIN code, I called Tinkoff, and Alfa, and Sber, well, I just called the call center, checked how the employees there are familiar with this topic, yes. Well, Sber, of course, is the most backward in terms of information security, but Tinkoff was the most advanced, yes.
Carder:
I'll tell you this, the most advanced is Alfa-Bank, that is, if you buy an Alfa-bank, for example, in any online store, well, in any CC-shop, and check it, let it be, this is the same, I don't know, some kind of Lux-checker, something, Electronik Promo, this is the oldest checker, the shittiest, well, with any, in short, checkers, even 3.2-check, it used to, well, in Russia it checked, but now it writes Russia Forbidden, that is, it has banned checking in Siberia, in Russia.
Specifically Alfa, it will always, even if you try to enter it every other day, it will give you a decline, that is, it will refuse to carry out the transaction, that is, at the time of the check it immediately blocks the card, once and for all, that is, it writes Restricted Card, that is, the card is blocked.
Pavlovich:
Alfa used to call me at one or two in the morning, I'm trying to top up the bookmaker company, let's say, yes.
Carder:
On what floor will it get along, right?
Pavlovich:
Yes, but one payment goes through, in short, for example, the second goes through, they call the third, or they already call the second.
Carder:
Yes, that's right. Alfa has the best security in Russia, that's for sure, that's 100%. They have the best security, it seems to me, right in Russia for sure. That is, the same stores, when you enter them, chargebacks come instantly. That is, you need to choose the store that either takes a long time for a chargeback to fly, or at a certain time, that is, for example, after the 30th they count there, well, these transactions and something like that, well, like on a stick, plus or minus, that's it.
How and where did you check the cards?
Pavlovich:
And where did you check the cards, that is, well, of course, you mentioned try to check and so on, but what do they do, that is, they...
Carder:
You register on this site, write the card number, the card date, for example 0621, and the card CO, these are the last digits at the back, and press the "Check" button. That is, you can select the amount there that you can pre-authorize from the card, for example, that is 1 dollar and up to 10 thousand dollars.
Pavlovich:
Well, it's like when you link it somewhere, to Uber or something.
Carder:
Yes, either to PayPal or to Uber, something like that, and there you specify, for example, well, the amount of the write-off, that is, it is something like that, and these services, they stupidly check the presence of this money on the card, that is, if, for example, I wrote 100 dollars there, I wrote it there, it is approved, the card lights up green, it means there are 100 dollars on it, but there are checkers that do not return the money immediately, but return it within some time,
mainly to the card's wheel and do not return it within 30 days, because these are foreign gates.
Pavlovich:
And during this time, the card owner can already notice this.
Carder:
Of course, this is kind of useless, well, you can just check that it is alive and that's it and start entering it, working it off.
Will they search for RU cards?
Pavlovich:
And these issues with the police, for example, you know that they will search there using Russian cards?
Carder:
Well, at one time we made clothes from YOX, ASOS, that's it. Well, and we made them right for our apartments, that's it. And one day we left, literally for the whole day, and we arrive, and there's a note on the door from the local police officer, like, come here and there. And there, a few days before that, we... A courier came to us and brought goods from ASOS.
ASOS is an online clothes store. That's it. At that time, there were very fat limits there. There you could exceed the limit of a thousand euros. That is, no one gave a shit at that time. You could order there, I don't know, they could send these clothes for 300 thousand. That is, without customs, without anything.
That is, it worked out there, DPD, I think, or something like that, SPSR Express, well, it delivered, and they, it turns out, gave the data to the cops, as I understand it.
Pavlovich:
Well, the data on who... Yes, who they delivered it to.
Carder:
That's it, and then they worked for the cops. And the cops mainly worked with Sberbank cards. That is, somehow a person paid off fines, fines can be paid on Yandex.Money, right fines for a car, he paid them off with a Sberbank card, a stranger's friend, yes, he just went and paid them off with a Sberbank card, a stranger, well, and then they just call his relatives, tell the cops where this guy is, let him come to us at the police station for an investigation.
Well, nothing, he came, said that he did nothing, and basically they let him go, that is, as a witness, okay, Basically, this is about Sberbank, because Sberbank does not like to do chargebacks, refunds of funds. I would say that it is better not to work with Sberbank, because it is really a bottle, not a ru-bottle, but specifically Sberbank ru-bottle.
That is, the probability, of course, is high on this topic.
Were you concerned that you could try on "bracelets"?
Pavlovich:
But it is good and you never cared that here you can just try on such bracelets there working in Russia.
Carder:
In general, by the way, no, that is, I am not one of those and I will tell you so, I was not afraid, but there was more adrenaline and more than that you get big money, that is, you can always buy off garbage from garbage, this is Russia from anyone.
Moral aspect
Pavlovich:
Well, probably yes, and look at this moral aspect that you rob there
Carder:
Yes, yes, it happened, but we sometimes even checked Vkontakte cardholders, that is, we looked at who it was, well, basically these, I will say, were some rich kids, mainly Moscow cards St. Petersburg cards, that is, city cards, for example, Chelyabinsk, Kazan, they were all homeless there, well, seriously.
We mainly worked in Moscow and St. Petersburg, well, always. That is, Moscow St. Petersburg cards are always top fat, they are always top people, they are always top money, that is, big money on their balances.
Do shops send to Russia?
Pavlovich:
Well, for example, you sent goods from AliExpress, there, from some other Western stores, like Yugs, you say, there, ASOS, right? Well, of course, this is all stuff carding. And there are some intermediaries there, for example, you can't do it there, you don't have, for example, well, let's say, you're stealing from a foreign store, and you need an address in the same country as the card owner. That is, it turns out you, and you don't have a drop there, let's say, and you don't live there, what are you doing?
Carder:
I didn't quite understand the question, but, that is, what is a foreign online store, for example?
Pavlovich:
Well, the same Yugs or Asos. Or do they send you straight to Russia?
Carder:
I mean, they send to Russia, to RU materials directly to Russia, i.e. they exchange directly.
Pavlovich:
Well, but these intermediary companies like Shopfans and so on use it, they give you a warehouse address, for example, in the USA. What is this for?
Carder:
This is done for bio-American cards. For American cards and for the withdrawal of goods, for example, to RU. Well, as an intermediary. I think everyone understands what we are talking about. But in principle, you can also cash out Russian cards, buying from Russian material, for example, on the same Amazon, sending it to an intermediary in America. And the intermediary in America will send it all to you.
And this security is quite high, in fact, i.e. the trash will definitely not descend on you, if someone is very afraid of this.
Why don't you "beat" America?
Pavlovich:
Well, then why don't they steal from the same Amazon from an American card, for example?
Carder:
Well, because they have a big anti-fraud plus ABC, to get around all this, well, it's more of a pain, and here you just take a RU card and enter it even to an American address, you have a billing, you write Russian, and Amazon cannot verify the billing, well, Russian, you can write any, they will send it to you anyway, you only need a shipping address, and the shipping address can be a shopfans and so on, well, it seems like now, right now Amazon is already very bad at providing goods, that's it.
And these will clearly not be mobile phones, but something like auto parts, something like that, but the goods are not high-risk, not increased dangers.
Pavlovich:
Well, yes, not liquid, in short, you can hear.
Carder:
Yes, well almost not liquid, yes.
About "non-work" on RU
Pavlovich:
Well, you understand that now there will simply be a bunch of active cybercriminals watching there, and they will all hate you there, that is, they will hate you for working on RUs, well, that kind of thing?
Carder:
Well, that's their business, logical.
Pavlovich:
And do they all work on Russia or, well, hiding behind this, we sometimes don't work or not?
Carder:
Of course, yes. No, some, of course, don't work, but basically those who say "we don't work", they tried. And you understand, work is sometimes very simple and easy in fact. That is, you just need to find the material. But the hardest thing in work is sometimes finding this material, because, for example, only I buy it. I can buy it all at once. That is, I pour money into all the shops where it is, by bins and so on.
I just upload it all, and that's why you don't see it anywhere. That is, this material was in the same Uni-CC. I uploaded it approximately every day. Moreover, sometimes 50 cards and 60. That's it. But a month, well, somewhere around half a year ago, he just updated the bin database, and all this was fixed by pre-orders. That's it.
Pavlovich:
In my time, do you know how much one card cost?
How much do CCs cost, where do shops get credit cards from?
Carder:
Well, I think, around a dollar.
Pavlovich:
Well, a dollar, and in large wholesale, there, 25 centimeters.
Carder:
Yes, yes, that was normal at that time, in my time, that's it, at the start, it was approximately the same. That's it.
Pavlovich:
And where are the shops, where do shops get the material that they sell, there, these stolen credit card numbers?
Carder:
Shops, well, look, they have either sniffers on some sites, that is, they hack them and replace the gate. Well, that is, the payment post-page, for example, is there, built into the site, that is, not separate, for example, where it sends you, for example, look, you can pay on some site, you are transferred to Yandex.Money, where you already play on the Yandex site. Yes, or in Robocast, that is, it does not work like that, that is, it must be some kind of frame, and in this frame you can already do something with the help of code.
So, it turns out that you upload ShelfShop, and there you fiddle with the code, and, in principle, it works either like this, that is, you make a sniffcard, or you make your own fake shop, sell some goods on it, for example, something cheap, maybe throw in some winnings. In short, some simple crap, and that's it, and you make a payment there, one dollar in the end for something, I don't know, on sale, on discount.
I think most people would pay, even me, just to check, why not.
Pavlovich:
Well, some bracelet, tights, well, something cheap.
Carder:
Yes, and there are 10 tights for 1 dollar. Socks. Yes, everyone would buy panties, the very best socks.
Speaker?:
That's it.
Pavlovich:
And just save the card details at the time of payment,
Carder:
Yes, no. Well, the shops save the card data and then, naturally, sell them. That is, it works like this. But basically, the main shops that sell the material, that is, well, there are a lot of them, they delete it, that is, they don’t delete it, they specifically block this country, Russia, for issuance, that is, in the shop itself, in the admin panel, they have the option to delete these cards, naturally, they have them all.
Naturally, they process some of these cards themselves, this is 100% information, but they process, for example, on VVP Credit Infinity, that is, until now, for example, Citibank has credit cards and three transactions can be made on them without 3D-Secure, that is, you can pour 100 thousand rubles into the same local bitcoin three times. Pavlovich
:
But for this you first need to know what organisms.
Carder:
What bins, what banks, what types of cards, even the same VTB is available without 3D-Secure at the moment in 2019, that is, there are such cards, they are very rare, and this is probably one in 500, one in 1000, but they exist.
What is the most unusual product you have ordered?
Pavlovich:
Some kind of most unusual product, maybe the one you ordered with stolen credit cards?
Carder:
An unusual product? Well, I once ordered quite a bit, well, probably half a year ago, maybe a bit more of an embosser for plastic. That is, a printer, an embosser, I ordered all of that, they sent it. Customs detained it all, I didn’t even bother to clear anything through customs.
Pavlovich:
Why? They took it for customs clearance, right?
Carder:
Most likely, the limit of 500 euros was simply exceeded, because we bought it all on AliExpress, when Ali had no limits, i.e. it was giving 80 and 90 there. I bought it all by EMS mail, went, and it was all detained. Although it was sent to different addresses, to different names, that is, instead of, for example, the word Alexander, you can write Sasha, Sanek, Oliksandr in Ukrainian.
Something like that, you can add some numbers. But they still detained the goods, most likely, on suspicion of something. Most likely, I don’t know why, but it’s clearly not because of the customs limit. Because we’ve always solved these issues very well. That is, changing the address, changing the letters, changing the postal code to any. That is, you can write to the post office, well, any postal zip code, it will arrive there, even if it’s incorrect, they will forward it to your post office, to which you ordered.
That is, it will all reach you via redirects.
Pavlovich:
Well, because in my time, you know, I bought goods in Western stores using fake cards, just like you, but I didn’t have, for example, Belarus in the delivery country. That is, I wrote in Germany, and there I wrote in Belarusian German. The American shop doesn’t know German, and the Germans, when this parcel arrives to them, they saw that the person had mixed up the address and sent it to us this way.
Carder:
Yes, and there was also the case with AliExpress, just for fun, and sometimes Belarusian cards, it turns out, also worked with them. And they wrote in the country of receipt, that is, the country of Belarus, namely in the second line of the address they wrote Russian Federation, and the goods actually reached Russia. They actually reached.
Pavlovich:
But just a little longer.
Carder:
It all took about 3-4 months. A very long time. I forgot about it. Then at the post office they just tell me. Oops, a parcel. I look, and the address is Belarus. Russian Federation. Oh, I remembered. Everything was delivered. Nobody opened anything. Customs didn’t check anything. Although, as far as I know, Belarus has very small import limits. That is, it seems that you can’t even bring a vape there that costs more than 20 dollars.
That’s not certain.
Pavlovich:
22 euros.
Carder:
22 euros, yes.
Pavlovich:
Well, 22 euros without customs clearance. But now they’re raising it.
Carder:
Well, that’s not certain. But it turns out that I sent goods to friends in Belarus and customs did arrest them, it turns out. I don’t know how it worked. Well, I detained them in Russian.
Clashes with the police, how can I get a parcel using fake data?
Pavlovich:
Well, it was delayed so that you would pay for the postage there. Well, that's all. It was 22 euros until recently. Now they are going to raise it. Or maybe they have already raised it so that there would be more. But still not to the Russian level, there is something like a thousand dollars, yes, approximately. And clashes with the police, that is, when working on RU, material?
Carder:
I'll tell you this, one material out of a thousand shoots.
Pavlovich:
What do you mean shoots?
Carder:
Well, the cops shoot once out of a thousand entries, that is, out of a thousand cards, for example, that is, these are purely my statistics for all this time. This is 100%, the cops do not like to work in Russia, that's for sure. That is, I have most likely entered more than 10 thousand materials. So, so to speak, maybe even more. And during this time, probably, well, 7 cops came.
Well, how did they come? Some of them... Most likely, they came more times, but since the addresses on the parcels were just randomly indicated, then, in principle, they had nowhere to go. And now at Russian Post they mostly accept parcels by SMS. I think you know, right?
Pavlovich:
Do they accept them by SMS or what?
Carder:
By SMS, yes. That is, you register at Russian Post, enter your phone number, your passport, come, say your phone number, and they give you the parcel when the Post Office sends you a code. That is, you dictate to the postwoman who is sitting at the checkout, she checks the code, the code is confirmed, she gives you the parcel, that is, you don’t even have to show your passport.
Pavlovich:
I haven’t done that, and I have to carry my passport with me, I just have to fill in my passport details every time.
Carder:
I understand, it's about your notifications, we did the same thing, absolutely, only on the notifications we wrote passport series 12345678, issued there on 10, I don't know, 10 1995, for example. That is, it worked like this, that is, all this data was written just out of thin air. And it always worked. The main thing is that the postwoman doesn't check it.
She won't check it, that is, if you behave adequately there, not like a fool standing at the post office, there, I don't know, scared of the report and so on.
Speaker?:
Here.
Pavlovich:
Well, at my post office, it seems, responsible employees work, because they constantly check the passport.
Carder:
Depends on where this post office is located.
Pavlovich:
Well, in Moscow.
Carder:
Well. And this is not Moscow, it turns out that this is already Russia.
Pavlovich:
Ah, I get it, that is, you, well, that is, the human factor, right?
Carder:
The human factor, yes. And all the post offices in the city, in principle, worked before. That is, and with courier services, that is, for example, EMS, well, SDEK, Pony Express, courier service, you can send directly to the cardholder's name and pick up directly according to his data.
Pavlovich:
How is that?
Carder:
Usually you just take and randomly write the data of who you want to send to, that is, I, for example, can send a parcel directly by writing, there, Sergey Pavlovich, there is the address of Pushkin Street, for example, Moscow, okay, And there the phone number is also randomly, the zip code is also randomly. Everything will come to the office, for example, of SDAC or Pony Express. We just go to scanlab.Cc. Well, this is a rendering service.
I think many people know it too. Here, for 5 dollars we will render your passport. Just, I don’t know, with my face too. And we download the picture with the passport to our phone. We come, show, take. Yes, we take the parcel. This is a drawing in fact, you had a release about the drawer.
Pavlovich:
Yes, Kolya had a drawer, he has his own service there, he draws something too.
Carder:
Yes, this is not even a fake, it's just a photo.
Pavlovich:
By the way, I consulted with the cops after this release, I spoke at a conference in Minsk on banking security. And I had my former investigator there at that conference. He now heads the Minsk office of "Group-IB". Do you know such a company? He works there from glasses.
Speaker 4:
I think I heard something.
Pavlovich:
Well, these are cybercrime detectives, only not the cops, but a private company. In short, they investigate all sorts of cyber incidents all over the world. And now, when there was vote rigging, when there was a vote before the LSU glasses, do you remember that?
Carder:
Well, when they rigged it with SMS.
Pavlovich:
Yes, when they rigged it with SMS, they too...
Carder:
They burned it all, it's all burned by heart, most likely the same series, SIM cards, etc., it's all working in one region.
Pavlovich:
Physical, did you make a fake passport on a printer, or did you just draw it and show the scan, right? That is, if you have already used it, that is, you actually misled another person, it doesn't matter whether you showed a physical passport or an electronic one, and according to Belarusian laws this is prosecuted. So, it seems to me, it is possible under Russian laws as well. That is, you need to be careful with this, naturally.
Carder:
Well, perhaps yes, but for now everything works in Russia, but not in Belarus, like you, as they say.
Pavlovich:
But no one works there, it seems to me, from the carder.
Carder:
What's the point, 22 euros.
Are you afraid of prison?
Pavlovich:
Are you afraid of prison at all? Have you ever thought about the fact that you could be put in jail?
Carder:
There was a case, that is, I ordered from ru-material. It turns out, the store... Well, with the goods, it turns out, I picked it up. But I paid for it, received my material through the stick, i.e. PayPal.
Pavlovich:
Did you link the card?
Carder:
Yes, I linked it, paid, the payment was successful, but one of the goods was delayed for literally 30 days. And I picked it up after 30 days, and they asked me for my passport. I gave my passport because I really needed this product, like, really badly. So, I gave it, they scanned something there, I hammered out nonsense, what the hell are you going to prove. Well, in that style, brush it off and leave.
And then the traffic police simply stop me, and they take me to the department. They take me to another city, because the owner of the store was from another city, that's it. And that's it, and they try to close me down there, but everything ended very successfully, I can tell you. I got off with nothing.
A refund. To the store owner and that's it. That is, no one ever found out about any stick, or any... No one ever found out about any cardholders who suffered losses. That is, they thought it was my card and my stick.
Pavlovich:
But this is the only case, yes, in your career, when you encountered trash?
Carder:
Not the only one. I know, there were cases when they came to the addresses of droppers. But it turns out they were looking for me, because at one time I was hissing at myself. That is, the trash comes about 4 months after you have conjured something to the address. It happens, it happens very rarely, but it was a long time ago, that is, this year there was nothing like this.
That is, the cops just come and ask if such and such lives here, they are told no, he doesn't. They are like okay and leave and that's it, I think the case is closed for them, that is, I don't know exactly how things are going there, but most likely it is closed, what should they do, he doesn't live, he doesn't live, the whole case is closed, they write a response, another city, most likely from which the application on this topic came, and that's it, the case is closed there, the holder is closed, in principle. Either the bank returns the money to him, or he sucks it off.
That's how it is, in Russian.
Pavlovich:
That is, if a Russian person has money stolen from his card, no one will return anything to him?
Carder:
Exactly in Sberbank, most likely 50/50. That is, VTB will return it, Alfa will definitely return it. I can list other banks that will definitely return it. I have serious doubts about Raiffeisenbank, because refunds from Raiffeisenbank very rarely did not come at all, that is, most likely, the refund depends on the holder, that is, if he writes directly to the shop where the money was stolen, then the shop will most likely return and cancel the order.
And if the holder contacts, for example, the bank, to return the funds, everything will be very slow in the bank, and most likely, all the shops will send, it turns out, the goods, I will take it, for example, my drops will take it, and everything will be okay. And if the holder contacts the store directly, then the order will be immediately canceled and the money will be returned. That is, if, for example, your money was stolen from the card to many stores, just write directly to these stores, attaching screenshots of the transactions that are, and the money will be returned.
Probably 99.9%, if this does not throw online keys and so on.
Pavlovich:
Well, there is another factor here, that they won't have time to send the order, for example, there, yes, and they will simply, well, cancel it and that's it.
Speaker?:
In the plan?
Pavlovich:
Well, you say, write to the stores, that is, you ordered from my credit card, stole my credit card, let's say, you ordered from Wildberries, for example, from it.
Carder:
Wildberries.
Pavlovich:
Well, or from Lamoda.
Carder:
Wildberries, by the way, gave it from a stick, because of me they turned it off. Well, I unloaded a few phones from them, by the way, La Moda also had 3D Secure, it didn't exist before, but they also loaded clothes from it, up to 6 thousand, true, but it was like for finishing, for a postamat, in principle, and why not, also money by the penny, you collect everything, it turns out normal, that is, it doesn't matter what you stole, that is.
Let's steal it first, and then figure out whether we need it or not, that is, I act like this.
Have you worked anywhere, what are your plans for life?
Pavlovich:
Have you ever been involved in some kind of legal business?
Carder:
No, I've never done anything at all. Or maybe I've worked anywhere? I've never worked anywhere.
Pavlovich:
You don't think so?
Carder:
Not yet.
Pavlovich:
What are your plans for life?
Carder:
I don't have any plans yet either, I'm still thinking about it. But it's time to move into something legal, but I need to come up with something that will really blow something up, because I don't like any topic where there are some flaws, some pitfalls, I want everything to work right away. For example, you entered it in a certain store, they sent it all, you received it all, you know in advance 100% that everything is okay.
And so I want the same thing in a legal business, for all this to happen.
Do your parents know what you do?
Pavlovich:
Do your parents know what you do?
Speaker?:
No.
Pavlovich:
And they ask where the money came from?
Carder:
I don't talk to him.
Pavlovich:
Do you have a girlfriend there, a wife?
Carder:
None.
Pavlovich:
Well, that's easier, right?
Carder:
Well, it's actually easier, yeah.
Pavlovich:
It removes a lot of questions.
Carder:
Actually, yes.
What will make you stop?
Pavlovich:
Look, when are you going to stop, when are you going to stop doing cybercrime there? I mean, what do you need for that? For the cops to stop you tomorrow or what? Or do you need a million dollars to be happy?
Carder:
Yes, you see, it seems to me that it's become more of a habit, I think you can't live without it for a while, but it's time to quit it, and over time, you'll still... I've forgotten a lot about this topic this year, I mean, I worked literally a few months this year, I just kicked the bucket and relaxed. I mean, I was chilling, everything was okay.
Pavlovich:
In short, it will just fade away, right?
Carder:
I think it will all come to naught with time. I mean, it will come to everyone anyway. You won't be hammering out room material there until you're 60, or hammering out anything at all, well, that's idiotic, you know. I mean, in any case, you'll go into legal business someday. Or not legal, but some other business, but it will clearly not be related to this.
What do you dream about?
Pavlovich:
And what do you dream about?
Carder:
I don't have any specific dream, it's all still in the process.
Why did you come? Addressing the reader.
Pavlovich:
Let's do it then, I usually ask this at the beginning of the interview? But now you just tell the viewer yourself, alone for half a minute, why you came. I'm not asking why you're wearing a mask, why, right? That is, it's clear to everyone, well, because you're acting as a cybercriminal. But just tell the viewer, not me, why you came. And what do you want there, some other words there, what parting words?
Carder:
I came purely to see myself, well, I don't know, purely to come to Moscow on business, well, yes, basically, that's it. I wanted to see how it all happens here, how it all works, because I've never seen it, that's it. In fact, that's it. That is, there is no such goal here as showing off, showing something to someone, proving something, because I'm in Moscow, that's it.
Something like that.
Pavlovich:
And to this it remains to be added, yes, as many come. Well, I teach this business here and there and there.
Speaker 4:
There is no training. Everything comes.
Is it possible to learn carding? How to feel like a sucker?
Pavlovich:
Is it possible to learn carding? That's how these guys are selling a whole bunch of training on the Internet. Here's your weighty opinion.
Speaker?:
My opinion...
Carder:
Well, guys, you can just go to the site, I don't know, MTS is there and top up your phone number. Carding is absolutely the same. You can order things from AliExpress, things from EBE. That is, absolutely the same, only, for example, you can use a different IP address there, for example, the same browser sphere for, for example, the country of the cardholder, and that's it, and everything will work, using, of course, intermediaries, that is, the addresses of intermediaries, they are in Europe, and in the USA, in Germany, so, and do not work according to RUCC, so, you will be put on a bottle.
Pavlovich:
But you weren't jailed.
Carder:
Well, not in these almost 10 years. Well, this is Russia, I think.
Pavlovich:
All this and don't work in Russia, in short, we buy carding training or not or it's not worth it.
Carder:
If you have money, you can buy it just to feel like a sucker, but in terms of development, but especially if someone wants, it's better to do it yourself, namely, to study some of these moments yourself, that is, you have to learn all sorts of tricks, for example, shops, tricks, how to enter, from what IP address, from what ISP and so on.
That is, for each store there is, for example, the same Beeline, it will not work, from it AliExpress will give some kind of app, well, an app is, for example, well, in short, the store simply will not give the goods, that is, it will write an error, the transaction was interrupted, there, fraud, okay, provide documents. And, for example, if you enter, for example, from Rostelecom, then the transaction goes through, and everything is okay, everything is sent.
Pavlovich:
And in my time, you see, even this was not necessary, they did not even bother with changing the IP, not to mention the Internet.
Carder:
Well, in my time, just before '17, probably, everything worked very simply, that is, I did not know what a sphere was, did not know what a multi-login was, well, now I work only with them, no other way.
Pavlovich:
Hello, thank you for coming. Anyway, guys, you see, active cybercriminals come and tell their stories, but I think that he was lucky, yes, he was not imprisoned and maybe he will not be imprisoned, I was unlucky in my time, I had huge earnings there, well, I don’t know, well, at the peak I had 100 thousand dollars a month, but that was at the peak, well, all I earned during my criminal career was a million 200 dollars, but if you divide it by 10 years, which I actually had to do for it, yes, it turns out that my earnings there were 120 thousand dollars a year.
Carder:
Do you have any money left from cybercrime in general?
Pavlovich:
Well, I have left from everything, I managed to save, probably, 30 percent.
Carder:
Well, did you keep the money, for example, in Liberty Reserve? Liberty Reserve, yes, I think he mentioned it.
Pavlovich:
No, back then I had E-gold, WebMoney. It's like Liberty, only.
Carder:
That was before, and the same founder too.
About criminal money
Pavlovich:
I had E-gold, WebMoney, but basically all the money was in cash. But what I mean is that, in general, yes, you're not ready for it yet at that time, you don't know how to spend it, you don't know how, let's say, to make some assets out of it, that is, you don't know how to invest it somewhere, and accordingly everything goes towards the high life, whores, expensive cars, trips somewhere to the Maldives, Seychelles, and stuff like that.
Carder:
You need to know how to spend money, and that also comes with time, no other way.
Pavlovich:
That's why, if you count it that way, I have 120 thousand dollars a year, and that kind of money can be earned legally in any case. That is, it's not worth sitting for 10 years, so do business instead, don't get involved in any crime. He was lucky, I was not, you might be even more unlucky.
