Cloned Boy
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Enjoy reading!
Disclaimer: Sergei Pavlovich's cat and is the guest lying?
Pavlovich:
Friends! Okay, it's not about the cat. Although, of course, subscribe to the channel for the cat and I will announce a competition for you. The first one to write in the comments the correct name of the cat, as we called him, will receive 2,000 rubles from me on a mobile phone account card.
But I am removing this disclaimer now not for this, but because for the first time in all my releases I have encountered the fact that I do not know what the hero of my interview says, whether it is true or not. Judge for yourself, he is engaged in the topic of real plastic, that is, he shops with counterfeit bank cards in stores. That is, what I actually did more than 15 years ago. And we all know that today, for any purchase over a thousand rubles, a PIN code is required, which he does not have.
Of course, there are certain tricks when you can conduct a transaction without a PIN, but I really find it difficult to answer whether this is true or not, so I ask professionals in this topic to unsubscribe under the release and not judge strictly. I was also confused by the fact that the guy says that he started to get something there 3-4-5 years ago in this topic, while he himself is very young and it turns out that he has been messing around there since he was almost 12 years old, which is another questionable point.
Well, the third point, I ask him a question during the interview and I catch myself thinking that now he will not answer with a phrase from my own book, you understand? All this confused me greatly, but the release was filmed, so I present it to you for judgment, all questions and comments in the comments, do not judge strictly, enjoy reading!
Why are you here? Why did you come?
Carder:
Everything I am telling you today is a figment of my imagination. Basically, any, roughly speaking, schoolchild, yes, can now take, buy this device and engage in counterfeiting bank or other cards.
Pavlovich:
Having a PIN is the same as already having cash in your pocket. That is, you went to any ATM and withdrew. Why?
Carder:
Let's say that... Honestly, I don't know. Okay, then we'll conduct a short tutorial for all subscribers who have encoders, yes, and some bank cards.
What are we going to talk about?
Pavlovich:
Friends, hello today's episode is about what I basically dedicated a good half of my criminal career to and we'll talk about real plastic, about real carding, that is, an episode with a virtual carder who steals money via the Internet and cashes out other people's bank cards in various ways. You saw my very popular episode and I hope that this one won't be popular, because the things being told are close to me, it's about counterfeiting credit cards, well, debit cards in general, yes, that is, bank cards in general and how easy it is today to withdraw money from a cloned bank card.
On air is a guest who came, well, as always, from far away, well, and I don’t even really know where from, I don’t want to know without a name, without anything, well, you know, anonymity, as always. So we’ll talk about real plastic.
This is what the direction in carding is called, yes, that is, in my time it was called exactly that, real plastic, and it was news to me to learn that it is still practiced, because practically everywhere cards, if you look, now I’ll close, yes, look, with a chip, well, with a chip and, well, there is also a magnetic strip, but with a chip, cards are much more difficult to counterfeit, plus transactions today are mainly done with PIN codes.
Why did you come, is this direction of carding alive?
Pavlovich:
Then tell us why you are here, why did you come and how is this direction of carding alive today and is it alive at all?
Carder:
Well, probably yes, I will tell the audience first that everything I am telling today is most likely a figment of my imagination, yes, and perhaps I made some things up, some Perhaps some stories really happened to me, yes, and I came to this interview with Sergey, probably, in order to somehow simply summarize what I have been doing. In principle, yes, now what is being discussed in this video. And somehow, probably, then summarize everything and understand in general whether I am going in the right direction or not, or perhaps engage in some other activity.
Because, probably, Sergey knows that when he wrote the book, he himself said that by doing so he summarized his entire path that he went through and somehow realized all this and understood that it was worth changing his life for the better somehow.
Pavlovich:
Maybe not for the better, but in the other direction. Probably, yes. We do not know yet, for the better or for the worse. We people can generally evaluate this after a long period of time, we do not see the whole picture in perspective. Is the real plastic trend alive today?
Carder:
Well, in general, what is plastic, what is real, what is it called, yes, real cardinal. In fact, now every person in Russia and in any other country probably has a credit card. Well, not everyone, at least in Russia, but in other countries a credit card or just a debit card. It is a very common phenomenon, in fact, every citizen of the country has one. And as if a salary comes to it, you can pay with it in the store, pay for purchases on the Internet.
And this card, what is it essentially? It is the key to your safe deposit box. That is, when you initially come to the bank, you open an account in the bank. And to access this account, later, when you have money on it, you are given a credit or debit card, it doesn’t matter, depending on your account in the bank. And with the help of this key card, so to speak, you can use your money, be hospitalized in any direction. And just like that, as you know, yes, there are locks, there are keys. And, in principle, it is very easy to make a duplicate of any key.
That is, we go to any studio where they are made, yes, and they make a mold of this key for us, and then make a copy. In principle, the same can be done with this key, because it... Its properties, like, have access to some, yes, let's say, very interesting things in the form of money, yes, or a key to an apartment, where we can steal a TV or take something else from the apartment, and we can also duplicate it and use it to get the money we need from the card. Carder:
And, probably, it is worth telling, what does it consist of in general, this key, right?
What does a bank card consist of, what is it?
Pavlovich:
Well, it seems to me, first of all it is necessary to say that there is no money on a credit card, on a bank card in general. That is, this is a common misconception, as our hero of today said, a bank card is only access to your account, a kind of key, yes. That is, it is not a chest where money is, but simply a key to this chest, so to speak.
The structure of a bank card.
Carder:
As they say, the money is in the bank, and the bank is in a can, so to speak.
In principle, any bank card consists of a chip, which is located on the front side of the bank card. There is also a bank logo, a payment system logo and some other information, that is, the bank account number, the expiration date and the initials of the user of this card. On the other hand, we have a magnetic strip.
We have a magnetic strip, which also contains some information that is used to access a bank account.
Pavlovich:
In essence, the magnetic strip duplicates the chip, the same information is recorded on the chip and the magnetic strip, the so-called dump, just in slightly different ways. Roughly speaking, yes, that is, in general, initially credit or debit cards, they were without a chip, well, you don’t even have to pick it up, they were just without this chip. Now they all come with three payment methods, so to speak, yes, either by chip, or by, so to speak, the PayWave or PayPass system, different payment systems have it arranged differently. Contactless payment. By-Fi, yes, contactless payment, RFID. And it is also possible, yes, in some rare cases to swipe coin colossuses through terminals, yes, and, in general, initially Previously, starting in the 90s, until 2008-2006, everyone paid by magnetic strip, i.e. The card consisted simply of a piece of plastic on which the account number, its expiration date and the card owner were written, well, and the CVV code, of course, and there was a regular magnetic strip on it. Well, and with the help of a magnetic strip, you could simply go to a POS terminal, there was a reader for this magnetic strip, you could simply swipe and not some PIN codes and other some confirming, say, data of the owner of this card. That is, the PIN code, what is it for? To confirm that the card is yours. Only you know the PIN code, no one else knows it, not a single bank owner, not a single bank employee, no one else except you. And when you enter a PIN code, you confirm that it is you who is making the transaction, and no one else. And cards previously had no security functions, except that they were just an ordinary key.
In general, it is very easy to counterfeit such a key, that is, there is a special device for it, the so-called encoders. Now they are contactless, that is, it is a contactless device that you can connect to your phone via Bluetooth and swipe the magnetic strip of the card. Swipe this device and you will be able to see the information that is on the magnetic strip.
And by simple manipulations, take your, say, card, that is, you take a scaly card, swipe it on the encoder, read the information and with the help of a phone, an application on the phone, also with the help of an encoder, you can once again swipe your card on this encoder and write the information from one card to your own and, roughly speaking, go somewhere there to perform some operations on it, purchases and so on. And it is not even necessary to have a bank card, for example, I have a discount card to Perekrestok, it also has a magnetic strip, in my time, for example, we wrote down on such cards, that is, you go to an ATM, no matter what name is on it, etc., it only counts the magnetic strip, but for this you only needed an encoder, in my time they cost about a thousand dollars, 900-1100. And how much do encoders cost now? Carder: Now it is a device for reading a magnetic strip. That's right, Sergey, it is an Albanian card, it is either a discount card or some other pass to some place. They are now on AliExpress, you can buy them on eBay. They arrive literally in a week, you can buy them for about 10-12 thousand rubles, if you are in rubles. That is, in dollars it is approximately 200 dollars, let's say. Basically, anyone, roughly speaking, a schoolchild can now take, buy this device and start counterfeiting bank or other cards. That's it. It's very simple. No special knowledge is needed to take and write off all this, just swipe the cards, download an application from some Play Market. Anyone can do this very easily? How to bypass the PIN code, chip? Pavlovich: Okay, two questions at once. First, before, a PIN code was almost always required for debit cards, for credit cards it was not required and you could, well, except for an ATM of course, I mean when shopping in a store with debit cards quite often, almost always knocked out a PIN code in the West, including especially in the West. This was not the case with credit cards and you could quite easily make a purchase simply by swiping through the terminal, but it was not you who swiped through the POS terminal. When making expensive purchases, they constantly asked for an identity card, driver's license, driver's license or passport and looked to see if your last name on the card matches the last name in the presented document. And especially meticulous cashiers back then also looked at checks, the check that appears after a transaction is approved or rejected, it is called a Slip.
Pavlovich:
Let me add. An encoder, in essence, yes, it is like in a tape recorder. Now, if anyone in the audience remembers cassette tape recorders, that is, you copied from one cassette. And in an audio cassette or video cassette, that is just ordinary magnetic film. The same thing, that on the back of the card there is a magnetic strip, yes, that is, it is an ordinary film that can be magnetized. And accordingly, just as you copied from one cassette to another using a two-cassette tape recorder, you can also read a dunk from a card's magnetic strip and rewrite it to any other disc.
They looked and saw if the last name matched. If you are clumsy and did not rewrite the card well, you can, for example, in the first track, and the dump on the magnetic strip consists of two tracks, track 1 and track 2, you could write any last name, or you could forget it, not write anything at all.
But now, firstly, transactions are mainly done by chip, and secondly, for all purchases that you make, in Russia now over a thousand rubles, by the way, they raised it to three thousand, but Visa allowed it, but it does not work everywhere yet, that is, only at the implementation stage. All purchases with mandatory entry of a PIN code. And how is this problem solved now? Firstly, a chip, secondly, entering a PIN code. Well, look, in general, initially these bank cards, they appeared a long time ago, back in the 1947s. It was all in America, it was founded in America. It came to Russia somewhere in the 90s, 2000s. And, strictly speaking, of course, the system has only just come to us. Of course, the payment systems are also foreign, visa and master card have only just entered our country, and, of course, whenever something new appears, everything is done clearly and according to the rules. Everything is controlled, all the cashiers have been trained, all the retailers have been told everything about how it all works, and really, what needs to be done, checked, not checked, and in general, how it all should work. Well, roughly speaking, if we return to our reality, when 2012-2013-2014, that's about the time I started working in real life, then cashiers had already gotten used to the fact that everyone pays with cards, especially in big cities like Moscow and St. Petersburg, if we're talking about Russia, everyone there had already gotten used to the fact that everyone pays, in principle, everyone always pays with their cards, especially since by that time a chip had already appeared, and when a person pays with a chip, there will definitely be a PIN code, 100% his card, his last name and first name, in general, everything is good. And cashiers, of course, began to lose their vigilance. And now, let's say, we have a lot of different payment methods. Chip, contactless payment, if an old card, without a chip, then by a coin strip. And you can, like, the cashier won't ask, yes, why are you crying like that, why like that, yes, of course, they are used to the fact that now a person uses a chip, and a chip is, that this is chip and PIN technology, that is, when you insert a chip, a card with a chip, you are required to enter a PIN code, yes, because such a technology, it appeared precisely in order to protect banks and in general, well, in principle, to protect this entire system from fraud, because, probably, it is worth telling what the difference is between chipped cards and cards with only a magnetic strip. Pavlovich:
Carder:
Yes, let's do it with a magnetic strip. This is the so-called card, yes, it has a chip and a magnet, it's called hybrid. Yes, yes. Now, I haven't seen one with just a magnetic strip and I haven't seen one with just a chip. That is, all the cards that exist now are hybrid - a magnet and a chip in front. What is a chip? A chip is essentially a microprocessor, a microcomputer, it has, roughly speaking, its own operating system, it has its own applications that are on it. And with the help of these applications, in general, there is information there that cannot be read from the chip, it is in some closed sections and it is impossible to copy this information, accordingly, it is impossible to counterfeit the chip. But, of course, you will think, why is it necessary to counterfeit a chip if there is a magnetic strip, you can also swipe it through the terminal, yes, and this design will work without a PIN code. In fact, when you swipe a magnetic stripe across a terminal just like that, there is information stored on that magnetic stripe that there is a chip on the card, and you need to insert the card with the chip and enter the PIN code, because why do you swipe the stripe if you have a chip. And, accordingly, you insert the chip and enter the PIN code to perform the transaction. It is difficult to deceive this system, almost impossible without special knowledge. Pavlovich: You can scratch it, and it will simply perceive that the chip is there, but it is faulty. And then, a priori, in theory, they are knocked out. I just haven't done it for a long time. The last time I stole money from bank cards was probably in 2003 or 2004. More precisely, no, in 2008. And then they simply withdrew money using the magnetic stripe without any problems. But if we scratch the chip, what will happen? Carder: Well, let's put it this way, yes, of course, a chip is a microcircuit, a microcircuit can, yes, roughly speaking, be stunned, yes. Pavlovich: Yes, it can be taped. Carder: Yes, it can be taped, damaged, somehow, yes, made to stop it functioning, yes. And many terminals support, of course, such a function, yes, that is, a person wants to make a purchase, yes, roughly speaking, quite a large one. That is, a person came to buy a watch there, yes, roughly speaking, for a million rubles. And then there is such a situation. He has the funds, people are ready to sell him this watch, to make a good profit, but the situation is that his chip does not work. It is clear that if a person does not pay for such an expensive watch, then what will happen? The outlet will not receive this money, will not make a profit. The money will not make a profit, that is, roughly speaking, this terminal will not receive any. It is installed by some bank or some system that carries out these transactions by cards. And for each transaction this system receives a percentage. Pavlovich:
Carder:
Yes, initially, as I said, the cards only had a magnetic strip. You could just swipe them, without having to figure out PIN codes, and the transaction would be successful. Then everyone started cloning all the cards, making duplicates, paying with cards that weren't theirs. The level of fraud increased greatly in all directions, because the technology was new and unbridled. And somewhere around 2005-2008, payment systems decided to introduce chip and pin technology, that is, they started, so to speak, to insert a chip into the card, into this regular plastic.
But the bank, together with the payment system, with Visa, MasterCard, American Express, also receive a percentage for the transaction and divide it among themselves.
Carder:
Yes, yes. That is, no one will get any money. Everyone will be unhappy. The client, the point of sale, and other systems that process card transactions. Of course, it is a shame if the chip does not work, but the terminal has provided such a payment system function as fallback. The so-called fallback function, that is, if the chip does not work, yes, it depends on how many times you insert the card into the terminal, that is, different banks have different terminal settings, and so on, that is, there are terminals in which it is enough to insert the card once either the other way around, or with a really faulty chip, yes, and the terminal will ask you to swipe the magnetic strip, and, accordingly, when you swipe the magnetic strip, the terminal does not require a PIN code, or any other data, in principle, except that the cashier will ask you to sign the check after the transaction.
Pavlovich:
Well, according to the rules, he should also compare your signature on the card with the signature you put on the check. But I don't have a signature on one card at all, and it's already worn off on the others. Well, I have three cards and I don't have a signature on any of them. This is no longer relevant, you know.
Carder:
Yes, in fact, cashiers forget to do a lot of things. And, probably, this topic of real carding continues to exist only because of the negligence of cashiers. Because they are, roughly speaking, the first link in this chain that should protect the entire system from fraud. But the first link, as they say, gave in, and, accordingly, that's it, the fraud went in a circle, just like that. Well, that's it.
Pavlovich:
So you're saying that despite all the security of chip cards, that is, you can damage the chip, or tape it over, or disable it in some other way, or simply, as you say, insert the card the wrong way several times, and so on, and that the terminal will knock out a transaction request on the magnetic strip? Yes. Well, how many times do I need to, say, insert it into the terminal there so that it doesn't knock out on the magnetic strip?
Carder:
It all depends, as I said earlier, on the terminal settings, that is, you can insert it once, twice, three times, or all five times, such settings also exist. And the terminal will ask to swipe the coin strip. It's already 2019, it all started in the 2000s. This whole system of fraud on credit cards, on plastic. And, of course, many payment systems have noticed that they have learned to bypass these systems.
And, let's say, the MasterCard payment system, it allowed banks to disable this function on terminals. That is, you can shove it there as many times as you want, but the terminal will still not ask you to swipe it. It will write there that the chip is faulty, try another card.
Pavlovich:
That is, it depends, the ability to make a transaction on a magnetic strip depends solely on the bank that issued the terminal?
Carder:
Roughly speaking, yes. Well, a terminal can be issued not only by a bank, but also by a so-called processing company. Processing. What is a processing company? It simply takes the client's money from the card, transfers it to the pocket of an account in a bank, which is located... In general, an ordinary store has an account in a bank. Where they receive all the profit from customers who process the account by card.
And it simply transfers money from the client's pocket to the account in the bank of this outlet. Because of this, they also, of course, take their commission and they have their own terminals. In most cases, which, of course, are installed by banks. In Russia, these are VTB, Sberbank, Raiffeisenbank, Gazprombank and others. Banks that have their own terminals, their own settings and their own specifics of conducting transactions by cards.
Probably, it is worth mentioning Sberbank. Sberbank is one of the first. Sberbank is the leader. The market leader. It occupies, probably, 90% of all terminals in Russia. And, in general, it is a monopoly bank, I think. I just looked at a lot of statistics on this topic. And, in general, they were the first to disable this option. That is, they, in principle, now Sberbank is the most secure organization for conducting transactions, so to speak.
The most secure bank in which you can issue your cards and not be afraid of fraud on these cards.
Pavlovich:
Well, I don’t quite agree, because my Izberovskaya, Sberbank with my Izberovskaya card can pay in an Alfa terminal, for example, or Reifazen using a magnetic strip.
Carder:
Yes, they can, but, again, Sberbank can protect not only its clients, but also, of course, itself. What is the most important task of the bank? It is to protect itself, first of all, and, probably, to protect the state of its clients. And if we talk about the fact that Sberbank has 90% of the market and most people who have Sberbank cards pay at Sberbank, then the transactions are as safe as possible, let's say.
They happen inside the bank and, in general, this is good.
Pavlovich:
Okay, does Sberbank prohibit fallback transactions on its cards?
Carder:
Sberbank, honestly, they, I tried to pay with a fullback on my card a couple of times, they do not prohibit it. Well, let's say I have a Rosgosstrakhbank card, there, when I try to pay with a fullback, the terminal pops up a receipt, and it says that this type of transaction is prohibited for the card. That is, when the request came to the bank, the bank refused to write off funds, because the transaction was in the fullback mode, that is, on a coin strip without a chip, although there is a chip on the card, and the transaction should have been carried out using the chip.
That's it.
How can you withdraw money from someone else's card now?
Pavlovich:
Decline was knocked out there, 51, 57, I remember these codes by heart, yes, decline, refusal. Good. And what exactly is the opportunity to steal money in a store now, right? I'll explain, in order to steal from an ATM, we need a PIN in any case, regardless of whether the transaction goes via the magnetic strip or the chip.
Having a PIN, that is, having a PIN, it's the same as already having cash in your pocket, that is, you went to any ATM and withdrew. Why?
Carder:
Well, now, yes, roughly speaking, if we are talking…
Pavlovich:
You want to talk about the region, right?
Carder:
I want to talk about, in general, yes, what are the Guys doing, the priority of carding in Russia, what is the purpose of carding? Information is taken from the magnetic strip of the card of only foreign issuer banks, that is, only foreign citizens.
Pavlovich:
For what reasons?
Carder:
Well, probably, first of all, let's say that our own security, yes, because the territory of the Russian Federation has not caused any harm to anyone, and the special services of the Russian Federation, well, in fact, they are not interested in this.
As a rule, if a person works for Sberbank, that is, will forge cards of Russian banks, then in fact large banks have connections to the federal security services in Russia, yes, very many, and you, in principle, will be very quickly, well, you, will be closed. But most often, of course, in the security service many banks think that no one is going to catch you, in principle, yes, you yourself will get caught, because you will steal a million rubles, two million, on the third you will get caught,
that's because you relax with time, yes, and the main mistake that many fraudsters get caught is, of course, their loss of vigilance and loss of accuracy. Over time, you start to get cheeky, increase the amount of transactions there, yes, and so on, and gradually-gradually you get into Most often, because these are crimes related to cybercrime, complex technology, and you are taken into development by the special services, and then you go somewhere relaxed, withdraw money from the card, and you are already taken by the hand, and you do not expect this, and you have a fake card in your hands, and you go to the branch.
Pavlovich:
Well, okay, we have decided on ATMs, but it is difficult with an ATM, in an ATM you need a PIN in any case. Okay, that's the first thing. I still do not understand, I did not hear the answer to the question, why then can't I withdraw from an ATM if I have a PIN?
In Russia, can't you withdraw money using a magnetic strip from foreign cards?
Carder:
If you work in Russia with Russian cards - you can. If you work with a foreign mediant, you can’t, because in Russia somewhere around the thousand, probably on the 8th, 9th, 10th, I don’t remember the year exactly, they turned off cash withdrawals for foreign issuers?
Pavlovich:
No, I can withdraw, I'm not far, like I did yesterday with my British card.
Carder:
Oh, in the magnetic strip.
Pavlovich:
Okay, by magnetic strip, right?
Carder:
Yes.
Pavlovich:
So, let's clarify then, that is, in Russia the ability to withdraw money from a foreign card by magnetic strip is disabled.
Carder:
Or am I wrong?
Pavlovich:
I don't know, I don't check, that is, what it outputs the transaction for.
Carder:
If we talk about the so-called region lock, then the restriction is by region, then in Russia by strip in many ATMs, it would seem that if chip-n-pin technology has arrived, then all ATMs should be equipped with magnetic stripe withdrawal technologies, or more precisely, by chip. This is not so, because changing ATMs all over Russia is very expensive, costly.
Therefore, many ATMs now work by magnetic stripe and withdrawing funds from them over the strange Internet is difficult. We will not say that it is impossible, but difficult. More often...
There, I don't know, in Belarus. Well, roughly speaking, you say, I'm traveling, unblock my card so I can withdraw money from it. Or you say that even before the start of your trip, and the regional restriction is lifted, because it is a very, yes, now a popular trick for banks to restrict cards by region. For example, in the US, there is a restriction on cards even within the state. That is, if you leave your state for another, you are unlikely to be able to either pay or withdraw money there, you will be refused.
Because in the US there is fraud, bank cards are stolen from each other within the country and because of this there are such serious restrictions.
Pavlovich:
How can we determine from the magnetic strip dump whether the card is locked to its home region or not? It was just very simple in my time. The dump, it is generally what is recorded on the magnetic strip, what does it consist of? That is, the card number on the front side, then there is an equal sign, then the expiration date, and not 05, there is 23, like
mine, but the opposite, 2305, and then there were the numbers 101, if the card worked all over the world, yes, or 201, if it was only on your home side, here, and then a few more numbers, it was just a code that, well, to access your bank account.
How can you determine now, that is, a dump of a credit card that you buy, steal somewhere, find there, I don’t know, well, it will be locked to a certain country, or it will work without problems all over the world?
Carder:
Okay, now we will conduct such a small tutorial for all subscribers who have encoders, yes, and some bank cards. If you now, right now, enter your card, yes, a bank card, it doesn't matter which one, yes, swipe it on the encoder, you will indeed see such information there, And, Sergey said correctly, there is a service code, the so-called. It consists of three digits, and, it would seem, yes, there are three simple digits, but each of these three digits has its own meaning. And there is a special reference there, yes, it says the meaning of each digit, what it means.
Yes, there are two main service codes, these are 101 and 201, and, if we talk about our time, there is 101, yes, 121, 126 service code. All service codes that start with either a one or a five imply that the card, originally a plastic card from which the imprint was taken, that is, this information, is chipless. Chipless, that is, it can be used to pay in a store, for example, only using a magnetic strip. There is no chip on it
Pavlovich:
basically, it never existed a priori. And the 101st and 501st cards are there, right? Well, with a one, starting with a five.
Carder:
Yes, only if they start with a five or a one. It doesn’t matter what numbers come after. And if we talk about chipped cards, their service code starts with a two, but most often with a two. That is, 226, 206, 256, 201, it doesn’t matter. This means that the card has a chip. Initially, the bank put a chip on it so that card transactions were made only by the chip, not by the magnetic strip, or by contactless payment, right? That is, contactless payment and a chip are, roughly speaking, synonyms, they are interconnected.
The same thing, yes. The same thing.
What do you do with the cards?
Pavlovich:
Having a PIN, let's say, we have no problems, in principle, with them at an ATM, well, or somewhere with minor problems, but with them more. But the majority of cybercriminals, both in my time and now, they do not have a PIN code, because with a PIN code any fool can get money from the card, so to speak. You have a cloned card of some American Rockefeller, an American rich Pinocchio, but there is no PIN code.
What do you do with it in today's reality?
Carder:
Well, you know, I remember a chapter, or, roughly speaking, an excerpt from your book, where you described a story about how you came across the so-called Visa Infinity card. Visa Infinity, I don’t know what kind of service it was.
Pavlovich:
It’s Infinity, infinity.
Carder:
Infinity, okay. Infinite, which means infinite in translation. It’s the highest-ranking card in the Visa system. It gives you a bunch of privileges and, of course, a certain credit limit. Yes, a very large credit limit.
Pavlovich:
High.
Carder:
Yes, high. As they say, spend as you want and where you want. Here, it’s like you never ran out. Yes, you spent, spent and couldn’t spend it. In fact, now, if you take the same Visa Infinity of an American bank, of some person, there are a lot of them, in principle, in the Darknet, so to speak. There are a lot of them, but if we take and write it down on plastic, and we don’t have a PIN, then, probably, we can only go shopping with it, go to stores.
Shopping implies the same payment by bank cards only in POS terminals, in terminals that are now located at almost every retail outlet. Accordingly, if you have a Visa Infinity, the ideal option, it is without a chip.
With this card you can make almost unlimited transactions using the magnetic strip. But, of course, many banks understand that Visa Infinity is a card that is really very popular, like, say, really rich and very powerful people. And the bank, firstly, will be upset to lose the money that is on it, no matter whether it is credit money or the card owner's money, and, of course, it will also be very upsetting to lose such a client.
And initially, probably, I don't know, I can just guess from experience and statistics that I checked, initially restrictions are imposed on this card. That is, most often you cannot spend money on it outside your region. Region log, first of all, is imposed. Let's say if it has region lock, I will try to pay and there will be a refusal, or the so-called code 0.5, a refusal without explanation, just a refusal from the bank that issued the card.
If, for example, there is no region lock, yes, let's say, if you decide to go buy a TV, yes, or a bunch of MacBooks for half a million rubles, yes, or a million rubles, most likely you will get a response from the bank in the form of, well, or 0.5, yes, that is, a refusal without explanation, because, most likely, a person with such a card in some other region, well, without warning the bank in advance will not spend huge amounts.
This is stupid, because the person has just arrived in Russia, let's say, and immediately the first transaction will be for millions of rubles. This is very stupid. Most likely, the bank will consider such a transaction suspicious and will temporarily block the card and call the owner, ask if you are really in Russia or not. Or, if, sometimes banks have such a trick, if a person made a transaction, say, at a certain time, at 2 pm American time, to fly from America to Russia, there are about 12-13 hours by plane, the fastest way.
If less than this time has passed since the last transaction, less than 12 hours, and there will be a transaction in Russia for half a million rubles. Yes, for any amount. Yes, for any amount. Look, you physically cannot change the standard one. Yes, that's right. You will most likely receive three possible codes, either 04, or 41, or 43.
Both of these codes mean that the card is stolen and the cashier will often display it in large print on the screen, or the terminal will start beeping, making sounds, and take the card. That is, if you get such a code, it means that the cashier sees it, he is not a fool, it is written on the check, and take the card. This means that according to the instructions of the payment system, the cashier must confiscate your card, take it away, take it away, no matter what the methods are, and call the police, draw up a report on the confiscation of the card and, accordingly, send you along with the police to the department for proceedings, where did you get this card, yes, and in general whether it is yours or not.
Or just confiscate the card, and you can, in principle, she may not call the police, but she will call them later, she will still hand over the card to the police, yes, and she receives a reward for this, in many cases, 100 or 200 bucks for each card handed over, but still, as soon as the cashier receives the card, as a rule, a criminal case is opened.
That is, she took your card, you went about your business, it doesn’t matter, she swiped you, well, she took the cashier’s card, it’s not needed anyway, it’s not mine, especially since I didn’t get any money with it, but they’ll open a criminal case and they’ll look for you after that. And if, let’s say, everything is fine and there are no restrictions on this Visa Infinity, let’s say, this only happens if it’s some rare bank, and there haven’t been any fraudulent transactions on it before.
But it just opened, happily, and allows its clients to spend any amount, then, of course, it won’t run out. It simply won’t run out, you’ll spend it, and sooner or later the person will notice that money has disappeared from the card.
Pavlovich:
Or the bank will notice.
Carder:
The bank’s security service will notice, and that’s it, after that the spending will end.
Pavlovich:
And what about the daily limits?
Carder:
Honestly, I don't know, because the foreign issuer in Russia used to work well, now it works very poorly and often it turns out at best to withdraw, if the card is a credit card, say, 15% of the credit limit.
Pavlovich:
I had on the card, I don't know how much money, because in most cases you don't know it and you can't check the balance either, I had cases when the cards were American, they give 500 dollars a day, not a cent more, not a cent less. You can get 500 dollars a day, but sometimes the cards lasted 72 days. Imagine, you issue 500 dollars a day from one card. 72 days. And there were cases when there was a lot of money on the card, but you come the next day, when the daily limit should have been reached, you come, but it was already blocked.
That is, it varies, but on most American cards, I remember very well that in 2004 there was a daily limit of about $500 per day, most often on most cards.
Carder:
Well, I'll tell you more, I have American Express in my pocket now, which has been working for about 4 months, and I successfully go and buy buns at McDonald's every day for 1,500 rubles. Of course, it's not 500 bucks, but it has a limit of about 3,000 rubles, I don't remember exactly, and I spend 50 bucks a day with it. And, in principle, transactions are very different now in terms of their volume.
In general, now you can spend several times less on a card, a bank card, an American one, a Chinese one, it doesn't matter, a European one, than before. That is, before, how it was, yes, before, I don’t know, only I have a friend, yes, he’s been working there for almost 10 years, he’s been doing this, and he told me that, yes, there, you go to a store, some Yusa, yes, there, well, America, yes, you take it, write down about 20 pieces, yes, that’s called, a pack, why a pack, because it fits, well, 20 cards, a pack of 20 cards, that is, it fits in a cigarette pack, exactly 20 cards, so, you take a pack of Yusa, that is, America, and go to a store, roughly speaking, to buy yourself a TV for 100 thousand rubles, and one of these 20 cards will definitely give you a TV.
That is, in a day you could get approximately 5-6 thousand bucks, that’s your daily earnings. Now these figures vary per day, one, one and a half, maybe in rare cases you can get 2 thousand bucks. That is if, yes, you work there every day.
Pavlovich:
That's the ceiling, yes.
Carder:
That's, well, in my case, yes, that's the ceiling. In my case. I don't know how others do it, but if you work alone, yes, roughly speaking, and quite carefully, then yes, that's your ceiling.
Pavlovich:
With the card you're talking about now, do you withdraw money by chip or by magnet?
Carder:
I withdraw money by magnetic strip. This card has a 201 service code, that is, initially it, that is, it still exists with a chip, yes, That is, this American Express Corporate card, that is, it is a corporate card. And why does it work? Simply because this card is corporate, that is, it belongs to some enterprise, clearly no one has used it for a long time, it just lies around, exists, like many people have. Banks simply issue some credit cards, they just lie around.
And he doesn't notice the expenses on it, that is, no SMS messages come to anyone, it's a corporate card and the company, in general, it doesn't matter, some 50 bucks go from it every day, well, insignificant expenses.
Pavlovich:
In general, an unnoticeable flow of company expenses.
Carder:
Yes, yes, yes. I pay with it by strip, that is, I use the fallback mode by the chip, roughly speaking, I insert it three times and swipe it along the coin strip.
Pavlovich:
Two points. First. Do cashiers now pay attention, especially after your chip transaction fails, to the appearance of the card, because in my time, I see now there are no holograms, in my time there were holograms, there were globes on the master card, or a dove on the banknote.
Carder:
It seems to me that it has one on the back, no?
Pavlovich:
Yes, now on the back, and naturally, yes, you see, in my time it was on the front, but that's not the point. That is, do they pay attention to the hologram, to the clarity of the inscriptions, to the quality of the embossing, to the appearance of the card in general now?
Carder:
Listen, well, I'll tell you more, yes, in your free time, when, you know, you earned cash today, yes, during the day, and in the evening you just have nothing to do. You can joke around, take some salary card, say, JP Morgan of the American bank, yes, and write it down to some, I have a Cosmic there. There is an entertainment center called Cosmik, yes, and they have their own cards, yes, internal ones, which you pass through the machines.
You play Cosmik disco cards. And you take one, you write a dub on the magnetic strip. And on the back of the card it says that the Cosmik is a means of payment in the shopping center. Cosmik. Sounds cool. And you go to pay. You go to pay somewhere, I don’t know, a store, equipment, to get new headphones for yourself. Well, that’s it. And you give it to the cashier, or you take it yourself, just swipe it, and that’s it.
It’s somewhere like Cosmik. Well, not a brittle one, just a Cosmik card, right? That is, cashiers now absolutely don’t care what kind of card it is, because there are many banks now, and cashiers have forgotten what it means to check there, yes, by appearance, how to pick at something, some kind of security elements, microtexts, and so on. They don't care now, especially in big cities, where they often care whether you're paying for a purchase or not? Do you have money or not? Everyone is only interested in the money and the transaction went through - yeah, great.
If it didn't go through, let's say, yeah, a refusal. Well, maybe, yeah, she'll look, like, are you paying correctly, did you attach it? Why the refusal? They often don't understand why the refusal, yeah, and it's easier for them to restart the account, try again, than to check, yeah, what if it's not your card. No one really has the thought in their head that it's not your card, well, you really came in proper form, yeah, there, well, I mean, no way, I don't know, a ragamuffin, yeah, what's with that look, oh, there, they're going to spend money now, yeah.
Well, you came for headphones, for yours, with your card, yeah. In general, I think, well, you have some stolen credit cards in your pocket now, right?
Pavlovich:
No, I don't.
Carder:
Well, I don't have it either, when, when the cashier asks me such a question, yes, do you have your card there, I ask her, do you have stolen cards in your pocket? She says, no, of course not. I say, why should I have stolen cards in my pocket? Only my cards are in my pocket. Right? Right. That's why I always pay with my cards and the cashiers don't ask any questions. It happens that you take a pack, write down 20 different American cards and go to swipe them.
It happens that they are bad, old, pretty old, from an old database, let's say. Someone stole them a long time ago, took the information from the card, from a small strip, and they all give out the code "Remove stolen". And you swipe the first card, the cashier looks at "Remove stolen", try again, maybe there's some kind of glitch. You push it onto another card again, hoping that everything will be fine, but it says "Remove Stolen" again.
And you stand there, looking quite cheerful, and say, "What do you mean, "Remove Stolen"? My card, right? Let's run it again." The third time, bam - stolen from Yaid again. The card has already been lost from Yaid. The cashier gets nervous. "Don't be nervous, you stand there and continue to roll them in like this." Well, of course, it happens that the cashiers are really smart and understand that the card has indeed been stolen, and they may ask you to show them some passport or something else.
But, of course, they often stand there, smile, and don't understand what's going on. Of course, you understand everything too, but you pretend not to understand, and sooner or later you'll swing by some 20th card, and everything is approved. Everyone's happy, everyone leaves. The cashier sold the goods there, you received your purchase and left satisfied.
Pavlovich:
So you want to say that the quality of blanks is generally not high now?
Carder:
Yeah, well imagine, right? How did it all rise there before, right? I read in your book that you had a partner there, Bo, right? He had his own store there, where they, they had their own factory there. Well, Bo and Flint.
Pavlovich:
They had their own factories, yes, they produced cards. Then I bought very high quality ones from the Chinese.
Carder:
Well, and I often read that when they checked the card, someone was worried, but the Chinese made good quality, everything was fine. Imagine that they looked into a situation where they really caught you. They caught you, your card is counterfeit, the examination revealed that it is counterfeit, they come to search your home. And you have an embosser there, a big machine on which you print, squeeze out your initials, there, and the card number, there, some kind of paint
hotel, if you paint the cards there in different colors, put logos, all that, this is not only counterfeiting of bank cards, it is also there, I don’t know, vospityvat, khraniv. In general, all the articles that are on bank cards, they will attribute to you that you have a factory for the production of, damn, credit cards. I don’t know, but it’s very scary, right? And so, if you pay there with some cosmic, yes, it is not a means of payment at all. That is, what are you doing in fact? You are deceiving the cashier.
Pavlovich:
You will have fraud.
Carder:
Yes, fraud. You deceived, deceived the cashier, forced her to punch your headphones into you and release them to you as goods. That is, you deceived the cashier. You did not counterfeit the plastic, but you deceived the cashier.
Pavlovich:
But in general, according to the law, you counterfeited, because you put payment data from another bank card on the discount card.
Carder:
That's right, yes. If the examination really reveals, yes, what's there, well, they also have their own encoder, special services do the same, they look, compare, that if the information on the credit card does not match the information on the eject strip, accordingly, the card is counterfeit. But if, let's say, how do you do it? Imagine, of course, you swiped the card on the terminal, everything is fine with you, well, and you start doing this.
You see, the card works, yes, what do you start doing, you say, give me more, yes, give me more, and you can also, well, well, and, basically, you gradually buy there, yes, for some amount, well, a thousand, let's say, 60 rubles, yes, you bought, yes, there, and the last operation, when you last, something there, carried out some operation, you got, yes, there, 0.5, refusal, let's say, yes, or stolen seizure, of course, the cashier gets nervous, yes, calls someone, some services, well, what can you do, you have a counterfeit card, what to do with it, yes, if you and I have drugs, yes, and someone called the police, what does he do? He throws away the drugs, gets rid of the evidence.
You need to do the same. You take the card, I don't know, break it, eat it, gobble it up, cut it up, whatever. Well, accordingly, what happens? Cards, well, that's it, it's broken.
Pavlovich:
And if it's in the cashier's hands?
Carder:
That's a different situation. That's a different situation. That is, if we talk about, yes, cashiers and security guards, it doesn't matter, well, the first rule that you should remember for the rest of your life is that you never give, it doesn't matter whether it's your card, not your card, yes, it's counterfeit, not counterfeit, you never give your card to the cashier. Why? Previously, transactions were conducted using the magnetic strip of the card, and in order to conduct a transaction, you had to give your card to the cashier.
For what? So that he can carry out the transactions himself. The card is a bank card, it is not yours. It is not yours, it is, it is written on the back that it is the property of the bank. And when replacing this card, you are obliged to give your card to the bank, because it is the property of the bank. That is, you are obliged to give your card to the cashier, it is not yours. The cashier carries out transactions on it, carries it out, yes, and that's it.
And then he gives it to you, and you continue to use it. Now, when they introduced chip-on-pin technology, to exclude the possibility that the cashier is a fake or cooperates with a criminal group, and there, for example, as they most often do in America, they plant their people at gas stations, fake cashiers at gas stations, they swipe the reader, the encoder, take information from the magnetic strip of the card and spy on your PIN code.
And in fact, a cashier in Russia can do the same thing. He can look at his PIN code, then come up to you, rob you in the evening, take his card and go and withdraw money from it, right? And to eliminate this possibility, they started to put terminals next to you. That is, you go to the checkout and you have a terminal. Yes, to make the payment yourself. And, accordingly, you never give the card to the cashier.
Because it is your card, yes, your money is on it. Well, roughly speaking, let's give an example, yes, to pay for goods in cash. You do not give the cashier your wallet, you take out 100 rubles and give it to the cashier. It is the same here, it is your wallet on the card, your entire salary is there. And to pay, you should not give it to the cashier, you must make, well, the transaction yourself. It is your wallet. That's it. And that's the whole simplicity. That is, you never give the card to the cashier, accordingly, the cashier cannot have the card, well, and the security guard as well, it is only with you.
That is, not under any pretext, there, let me see, there, let me see, there, I'll see, I'll check, something else, you never know what she can do. She can stand there and have sex with you, there, well, for 10 minutes, yeah, there. Press the button. Everything is fine, yeah. Either press the button, or she'll take your card, let me see, yeah, just curious, cool card, yeah. She'll throw it to herself, there, somewhere, there, yeah, in the glove compartment and then talk to you, continue, and she'll call security. That's all. The main thing is to never give your card to cashiers.
Pavlovich:
Accordingly, what do you shop with? With discount cards, that is, do you record the dump of someone else's card on discount cards or on what?
Carder:
Look, in fact, of course, when you shop, roughly speaking, you work every day, that is, you get up every day, go to the store every day and buy something every day. It's all a very, so to speak, really difficult process. That is, I heard in many interviews, I said that carding and generally fraud in the sphere of high chinologies, crusades, this is an occupation, of course, earning money, it is quite fast, but not easy.
And so that cashiers are not especially scared, not especially surprised that you, I don't know, in Washington pay with a card from a gas station, roughly speaking, a fuel card, you must correspond as much as possible to the fact that you really have a bank card.
Prepaid cards, working with them.
Carder:
The so-called prepaid cards are best suited for this. Visa cards or prepaid master cards. They can be easily obtained at any bank branch. They are most often hanging right on the counter.
You can come up to them, take any number, any design, some gifts.
Pavlovich:
They don't have a last name.
Carder:
They don't have a last name. So what's good about prepaid cards? You don't open a bank account. So you can take, say, this card, put money on it at an ATM and give it to someone as a gift. These are gift cards, roughly speaking. And a person can pay with them anywhere. This is a gift, yes, there are gift cards for stores, there's Rendezvous, it doesn't matter, there's NVIDIA, but you can also give a universal gift card, where you can pay for everything, for all services, where regular bank cards are accepted.
And, in general, so that you don’t have to counterfeit the plastic at home, and not sit there with such huge machines, yes, you can, in principle, take real plastic from the bank’s surprise, which was made by the bank, as if it were official, everything is fine with it, yes, and then rewrite it, use it for your own, there, machinations, yes, there, use it, pay them and so on.
Pavlovich:
But you, okay, the last name is not on the track, but your numbers on the card will not match if you rewrote the numbers on the check that comes out.
Carder:
Yes, I also wanted to say about this, that the information on the magnetic strip of the card is included in the first, second and third tracks. The first line contains information about the card, name, last name. And the second line is the same, only in a more compressed form and without the first and last name. For a transaction in Russia, only the second track is needed.
On the second track, that is, the second track, the first and last name are not included, the bank equivalencies are simply indicated there. Accordingly, when you write down the plastic and when you pay with it, neither the first nor the last name appears on the check, nothing appears.
Pavlovich:
It used to appear.
Carder:
Now? That is, you just erase the first track and that's it. That is, you just don't record it, you record only the second track and that's it. That is, you record only the second track and everything works fine. That is, you want...
Pavlovich:
To say that I remember specifically that for ATMs only the second track is enough, but for stores for some reason we always, I don't know, maybe by the way we also did it in vain, that is, for stores we always recorded track one, where I have the last name.
Carder:
Yes, I know that they did it before, they used to do it themselves, for example, if you found it somewhere on the dorognet, yes, only the second track, yes, without the first, you wrote it yourself, you came up with it yourself, there, first name, last name, there, added the missing zeros there, so to speak, yes, so that everything corresponds to the standards of payment systems, that's it. But in America, I will say this, there is a lot of fraud in America, and therefore in America the first track is required on the card. And without the first track, no transactions will be carried out there.
In Russia, the first track is not needed. You don’t need to bother with coming up with a first and last name, you can simply erase them, and nothing will be displayed on the receipt at all. That’s it, it’s very simple.
Pavlovich:
But the card number will be displayed.
Carder:
The card number is all correct, but the expiration date will not be displayed. The last 4 digits will be displayed on the receipt. The last 4 digits of the card are displayed on the receipt after the purchase.
Pavlovich:
In rare cases.
Carder:
In the first 6 digits. This is the so-called BIN. Therefore, the BIN can be found in the first 6 digits of the card number, you can find out the bank that issued this card. And the last 4 digits on the card, in general, have never been anything specific for cashiers, they just don’t check them. They don’t know what needs to be checked, they don’t know what signatures need to be checked. Most often, a person asks to sign and that’s it. Or, you know, in rare cases, if they think you're suspicious, they'll say, excuse me, but can we check your signature, you just signed the check, your signature with the signature in your passport? Like, well, of course you can, there.
They'll be the same. I signed my signature, check it with the signature in my passport. In fact, they have to check the signature on the card with the signature on the check.
Pavlovich:
Well, that's if it's there, you see.
Carder:
Yes, but it happens that... No, in general, when I received a Sberbank card in person, yes, a bank employee checked it all. That is, he directly said, sign the card in front of me. Here are three cards.
Pavlovich:
I received this one a month ago. They're all unsigned, right? My old one, according to Exparte, well, it expired, no signature. But in general... Alfa, nine cards from Alfa, no signature. They brought a fresh Tinkoff to my home, no signature either.
Carder:
I can tell you briefly what a signature is for. I mean, imagine you hide someone's card, yes, a real card, plastic, right? And it will have that person's signature on it, right? Accordingly, if you are asked to sign the receipt after a purchase, you sign with your signature, right? And the cashier compares your signature and the signature on the card. And the signature on the card is not yours, i.e. the card is not yours either. That's all. Well, i.e. you will use a stolen card.
Pavlovich:
Well, it's been a security measure since ancient times.
Carder:
Instead of a PIN code. Instead of a PIN code. And now a PIN code. I mean, it's very difficult to steal a PIN code.
Pavlovich:
Good. I mean, you write down, it turns out, dumps of other people's cards on these prepaid cards, on gift cards, yes, on prepaid ones.
Carder:
And I go shopping with them.
Pavlovich:
Okay, I get it. Dumps. Where are you now, your gang or you alone, where do you get card dumps?
Carder:
In general, for a person to start some of his own actions in real carding, everything is quite simple. You need to find some forum that is on the topic of real carding or on carding in general. And on these forums there are...
Pavlovich:
There are 30 of these forums.
Carder:
Yes, a lot. Now there are a lot of them. And often many of them are a scam, but there are a couple of good forums that have advertisements of stores that sell information from bank cards. It does not matter whether this information is just a card number with an ECV code, or it is, in my opinion, a valuable dump from the magnetic strip of the card. And, in fact, you can just go to this store, deposit 100 bucks there using bitcoins and buy about 10 American cards, 10 dumps, 10 tracks, write them to prepaid, as I do, and go shopping in any store in your country.
But the likelihood that an American dump will work in your country is now very low, because, as you yourself said in your book, and in general at that time America was very much hammered about this particular fraud.
That is, in America, everyone used bank cards in America, because this system appeared in America first, there were the most of them, accordingly, the most money. And everyone withdrew money in different countries from American cards. Therefore, now the Americans have greatly limited this function in other countries. That is, it is often almost impossible to withdraw money from an American card now, or in rare cases it is possible and in good volumes.
What is the percentage of valid cards, how much can you withdraw from one, how much do dumps cost?
Pavlovich:
Well, how many cards out of 20, I’ll take at least one, Americans….
Carder:
Well, if we talk about a region of Russia, then you will withdraw 16 cards here, God willing, you will get working 5 cards, but then you will be able to withdraw from them a maximum of about 20-30 thousand rubles.
Pavlovich:
From all of them?
Carder:
No, from one.
Pavlovich:
Well, the same 500 dollars.
Carder:
If, let's say, there is a lawyer's debit of 10 thousand dollars on it, you will be able to withdraw only 500, let's say.
Pavlovich:
Okay, then how much does an American dump cost now?
Carder:
The average cost of an American dump, a good dump, and not some kind of dump that has already been used by someone or something like that. A fresh dump that has just arrived in the store costs about 10-40-50 bucks, if we are talking about America. If we are talking about Europe, then it is 30-60 bucks.
If we are talking about Asian countries and exotic countries, exotic countries, there are up to 150 bucks in some stores.
Pavlovich:
Does the dump price depend on the type of Gold card, for example, Classic, Infinite, Signature?
Carder:
Most often, the classics are the cheapest, including the classics, Visa, for example, Electron, also the simplest card, which stores very little money, this card is issued to people who have just started using the bank's services.
Pavlovich:
But you can only pay with Electron on the Internet?
Carder:
In real life, you can't? No, you can. Electron, yes, it allows you to pay on the Internet. In real life, I have, for example, a card "Collecting Electron", Visa "Electron". Yes, it has a daily limit of 30 thousand rubles, 500 bucks.
Pavlovich:
Well, I have 30 thousand rubles on the classic. I do not have a daily limit, I have a limit for one transaction, that is, if I transfer you from Sber through a mobile application, then 30 thousand for one transaction.
Carder:
Well, let's say so, yes.
Pavlovich:
But how can I make so many of them, I don’t even know how many, but for one transaction 30 thousand.
Carder:
Yes, then there are Gold Premier, then Platinum, Infinity, MasterCard World, World Elite, Amex Centurion.
Pavlovich:
By the way, I have a Centurion tattooed on my shoulder, few people know. Can you see it?
Carder:
Interesting fact, yes.
Pavlovich:
This is exactly the American Express Centurion, this is the most expensive American Express card. And it says American Express at the bottom. You know, right? You are such a mouse. So this is, you know, like a reminder of youth. Someone has it tattooed for the Airborne Forces, someone has a thief, I have this American Express, so it’s easier to see.
Dumps of which cards work best now?
Pavlovich:
Dumps of which countries work best then?
Carder:
In Russia? Yes, it varies greatly around the world, but in Russia the best performing countries now are exotic countries like Puerto Rico, Costa Rico, Guatemala has such a country, Krenedat and China, Japan, Turkey occasionally.
Pavlovich:
Australia, New Zealand?
Carder:
Australia works with small transactions, gives a very long time, and in New Zealand, honestly, it is rare. It happens that Europe, England, France also have several banks. But, as a rule, Europe, it is all already, also a trend, it gets there very quickly. In Europe, all 201, that is, all cards with chips, they are very limited by region, so it is difficult there. In America, they have half, less than half of the 101 cards without a chip and more than half of the 201 with a chip.
And in America they are not trying very hard to switch to a chip, they have a lot of ATMs there that do not yet accept chips, a lot of terminals that are not related to chip readers, in many states almost all are like that. And they are in no hurry to change their technologies. In all exotic countries, most of them are 201. Well, in China, yes, in China, in Japan, there are still 101 cards and, as a rule, you can withdraw about 100-200 thousand per check, that is, per transaction.
One transaction can basically make 3-4 thousand bucks there.
Pavlovich:
Does a Japanese card work several times?
Carder:
Yes, as a rule, Japanese and Chinese cards work from one to four times, maybe up to five. It happens that up to forty thousand rubles work there, but not until it runs out. Until the daily limit runs out. It can work. It worked for me there, sometimes, for three, four days during that time. Japanese? Yes, Japanese. It costs about 500 thousand rubles with it.
Pavlovich:
And Israel?
Carder:
Israel? There are few of them. Often the service code there is 521 or 506, honestly I don’t remember, I think 506 even happens, they roll along the strip, but they are rare, and the Israeli price is low, they monitor this very closely there, and literally in 5 minutes your card gets into the stolen Z.
Pavlovich:
And Switzerland?
Carder:
Switzerland does not work, well, it works very well, maybe one bank works, out of 100 banks in Switzerland, one works, but it is difficult to find such cards. Austria recently worked, I tried. Austrian bank. Visa Austria works. Rare banks work, which rarely came across in these stores where you can buy information from bank cards. They have not had time to wear them out yet.
Pavlovich:
Which have not been jerked off, frankly speaking, a little roughly, which have not been jerked off. Look, the price of dumps, I see, has not changed much since my time. What volumes get, what volumes of dumps get into stores? So tomorrow I need, let's say, thousands of pieces, there, the first hundred, for example, from different countries.
Carder:
I don’t know why you need the first hundred thousand pieces, really, but I don’t know, maybe you’ll resell them, right? Well, you’re unlikely to roll over thousands of pieces, and, generally speaking, that’s it, and you don’t make purchases, but yes, there really are large volumes there, in some stores there are updates every day and they upload about 400, well, 400-500 cards a day. That’s how it is. They steal 450 cards regularly in the world, just imagine, in one store.
Around the world, about a million cards are stolen per day, roughly speaking, information, about a million cards.
Pavlovich:
I find it hard to believe a million, that’s a very large number.
Carder:
Well, yes, I don’t know about the world, I just assumed that. Quite large numbers.
Pavlovich:
These stores, they are on the Darknet, right?
Carder:
Yes, I’ll say this, on forums. On thematic forums, I said, they are, yes. And not only that, well, what is the Darknet, right? It's just the Internet dedicated to thematic ones. On the dark side. Yes, on the dark side. These are regular sites, with domains, roughly speaking, .Com, .Cc, .Pv, various domains belonging to non-Russian countries, so that these sites don't block them.
Or there are some in the tor, also having domains in the tor, .Onion.
About hackers: who gets dumps and how?
Pavlovich:
Where do dumps of stolen bank cards get to these stores?
Carder:
Most often, this happens by infecting a POS terminal with a virus. That is, in general, in Russia and other countries, how do terminals work? They are connected to a computer. If the terminal is connected via a computer wire, it encrypts. That is, all the information that is read from the card is encrypted and transmitted to the POS terminal.
To a computer, to such a monoblock, for example, it is encrypted. If the reader is a magnetic strip or a chip, it is already built into the terminal itself, there are such terminals, built-in, then the information is not encrypted there, it just gets into the computer's RAM, and these viruses, they are, in general, configured for Windows, and they simply scan the processes in the RAM and pull out dumps from there.
And transfers them over the Internet to the owner of this virus. And then all this is parsed, sorted, and a selection of countries is obtained. China, Japan. If, for example, this is some cafe located on the coast of America, it is clear that there are a lot of tourists there. And there, as they say, is the fattest material. That is, tourists, they most often have the region-log removed, restrictions by region.
And you can safely use their cards in Russia. In general, this is one of the main methods, because it is the most large-scale, because it is a virus, no physical interaction with terminals or with the bank is required. A very large volume of data goes to you. Or, if you, roughly speaking, work in Russia and put your man at a Gazprom gas station, he reads the cards using a reader, remembers the PIN code and this will also be material, say, for work.
Dump and PIN code, let's say. Or you can use skimmers, a skimmer on an ATM. You will again receive a PIN code and you will be able to see it using the camera on the ATM.
Using the camera on the ATM, the PIN code and using the skimmer built into the leader ATM, you will be able to get a dump from my thick card.
Pavlovich:
I had more than 200 million cards in my case and all of them were obtained mainly in this way. Which one? Hackers hacked hotel chains, restaurant chains, hacked store chains, very large retail chain stores in the US, and that was only 200 million cards.
It is clear that it was impossible to process such a quantity yourself, and they were sold, because every day from your database with dumps a large part dies, well, not a large part, but a certain part dies by the expiration date, accordingly we sold them at bargain prices simply so that you would rather sell there for 2 dollars or 5 than tomorrow it dies by the expiration date.
But this was done by top hackers, one of them is Vladimir Drinkman, nicknamed Scorpio, he is serving a 12-year sentence in the US, the other is Psycho Seleznev, his father is a deputy from the LDPR, he is serving a 27-year sentence in the US, because he did not have enough brains to somehow agree with the investigation to go on the spot, he thought his dad would get him out here through political channels, but it is impossible to get a cybercriminal out in the US, no matter who you are. Probably, if only he was Putin's son, yes, they probably already discussed it among themselves and came to an agreement.
But these are top-level hackers, that is, they know what to hack. How do today's hackers even find where the cards are, how to infect.
Carder:
Listen, but top hackers back then, perhaps, hacked huge databases, local networks of different banks and organizations. But now there is such a site as Shodan, such a system as Shodan.
Pavlovich:
I know, it's the Internet of Things.
Carder:
Yes, yes, yes. It basically concentrates the IP addresses of computers that have open ports.
Pavlovich:
Well, there are cash registers connected, factories.
Carder:
Open access ports so that you can use this computer, connect to it remotely.
Pavlovich:
Do you connect via VNC?
Carder:
Either via VNC protocol, or via RDP protocol, or via SSH protocol, you can use a tunnel. You can use different protocols, which, let's say, are open, which have different vulnerabilities. Yes, Windows, let's say, yes, and somehow bypass, let's say, because most often you connect via protocol, yes, and what do you encounter? You encounter authorization, logins and passwords. Yes, just login, login to Windows.
But no, of course, they set stronger passwords there, and you have to bypass this authorization system somehow, by detecting Windows, there, XP, let's say, or Windows Vista, well, and this, in general, is all easily bypassed.
Pavlovich:
What Windows is installed in POS terminals?
Carder:
Most often, like on ATMs, Windows XP is installed, or Windows Vista, or some Windows XP Professional. Well, some service packs are installed, most often, which are configured specifically for the activities of financial systems.
Pavlovich:
Well, that is, not the last one, not the 8th, not the 10th, right?
Carder:
No, no, of course not. Because POS terminals have rather weak hardware. And weak hardware requires an old platform system. Well, an old one, to support it.
Pavlovich:
That is, you find it through Shodan, yes, and then you break the technology there.
Carder:
Yes, yes, yes. It's all done very conveniently now. Yes, there may not have been such services before, but now it's one of those where you can search for open access to computers, and with this help infect them and get payment card data from there.
Pavlovich:
By what signs, from the many devices that Shodan finds with an open, say, VNC port, do you determine that it is a POS terminal?
Carder:
In fact, you can simply enter some default names in the search, standard terminal names, computer name, MAC addresses, include the word POST terminal, or quickly run through the sites that produce such POS terminals, hybrid ones, to which a direct
leader is connected, which is inserted with a card, and try with a key, say, the so-called gross, just pick a suitable name and find a suitable computer.
Pavlovich:
When was the last time you bought something with a counterfeit credit card?
Carder:
Probably something big, right?
Pavlovich:
It doesn't matter, any.
Carder:
The last time I bought, I think, was an Apple Watch. Apple Watch, something new, I literally got it a week ago, well, it's one of those cool purchases, it's just a trend for me, I get a new Watch every year, and specifically with a credit card, well, an American one, it doesn't matter, it's, you know, a sign that, yes, it still works, it still works, well, they cost an average transaction, yeah, there, about 800 bucks, there, 40 thousand rubles, well, they cost 34 thousand now, yeah, but it's a nice little thing, just waved and took it, went.
Pavlovich:
And what was the most expensive purchase you made with a fake credit card?
Carder:
The most expensive was... I bought myself a jacket. An Armani jacket. True, I couldn't stuff it... Then I kind of made two different receipts. One was for 40 thousand rubles, the other 30. Well, it came out to only 70 thousand rubles.
Pavlovich:
So in two loans, right?
Carder:
Yes, yes. Well, or... Wait, I'll remember now. It was there, like, two months ago. I think it was with one. There were just two transactions. Two transactions.
Pavlovich:
And the transaction limit?
Carder:
No, I was just afraid that, as a rule, if you exceed the permissible withdrawal limit in another country, in another region, then it gets into the podcast, well, just 0.5, and calls the person, the owner of the card. But I was afraid, I made a low transaction to make sure I bought it. I really wanted to.
How do you check dumps?
Pavlovich:
How do you check dumps now before shopping, so that there is no surprise in the store that you come and they knock out some code for a four, confiscate there, detain?
Carder:
Yes, yes, yes. Previously, yes, they checked, the so-called check, they carried out, yes, there, I don’t know, or there is simply a special service, a checker, a checker, yes, the so-called, on the Internet, you just enter the card details, there, the number, the CV code and the expiration date and that’s it. And you check, is there 1 buck, let’s say 2 bucks, it doesn’t matter. You simply withdraw a small amount. You test, is it working or not. Now there are such checkers, very, so to speak, advanced, you can withdraw 0 bucks. That is, 0.0 bucks authorization.
Well, that is, zero authorization. It is not displayed in your personal account, anywhere. That is, indeed, I simply tried zero authorization on my card, no SMS, nothing comes. That is, it simply checks whether the card is working or not, it is very convenient.
Pavlovich:
But it’s like all sorts of Ubers, when you link the application.
Carder:
Yes, roughly speaking, yes. But there are now special services for this. For example, some kind of checker. You go to the site, enter the data and that's it. It is already engaged in some other services, where it tries all this. But most often, of course, cards are not checked for one reason. Because we talked with you that it happens that the bank checks whether it is physically possible to fly, say, from America to Russia.
Have you checked the card somewhere in some service?
Pavlovich:
But the service will be electronic,
Carder:
This is not a physical transaction. As a rule, it happens in the service that they carry out authorization on the territory of America, for example. Most often this happens, but for some reason it happens that the cards die because you check them. Why does this happen? Maybe these services just use real POS terminals of hotels, just try some manual input, I don't know, honestly, but it happens, it happens very often.
Or you can check before going, for example, at McDonald's. You go, buy a bun for 50 rubles, it works great, go further, spend there to buy yourself an iPhone or a TV, roughly speaking. And in principle, it is not difficult, just check its magic and abilities. That is, yes, again, so that you do not have to stand 20 pieces in America and not roll them at the checkout, choose 5 working ones, it is easier to go to McDonald's, roll this pack, buy yourself 5 buns, 5 working cards and go further, having found working cards in the store.
Do you card via Apple Pay, Google Pay?
Pavlovich:
And what prevents you from linking the card to your phone and paying via Apple Pay or Google Pay, for example?
Carder:
As soon as Google Pay technology appeared, Apple Pay, contactless payment by third-party payment methods, phone, watch, it does not matter, all this, of course, was done, but very quickly they got the trick and began to block.
Or verify by entering data into your cards, the service authorizes you for 28 rubles, and a window opens, asking you to write, write for what amount we have authorized you now.
Pavlovich:
When you link your card to Apple Pay, for example?
Carder:
Yes, or to some other service, this is one of the verification systems, or it will ask for some authorization code that they sent you to the phone that the card is linked to, well, something like that. They will use any verification systems that will prove whether you really use this card or not. There are, I read articles where they tried to link and successfully linked foreign cards to Apple Pay, but then it blocks your iPhone, if you pay with an iPhone, Apple blocks your iPhone by Apple ID and that's it, it doesn't work anymore.
Either there, well, in general, it is either difficult to do or completely up to now honestly I have not tried it myself so that the system would receive a CIC on workers, yes, but I very often came across such additional checks from apple pay and either google pay it does not matter any payment instruments they are most often.
Pavlovich:
They arrange checks. And do you need a PIN code when paying via phone, via Apple Pay?
Carder:
Look, Samsung, they made a very interesting system. They thought through the fact that not all terminals support contactless payment now, especially in America. They added the MST system, in fact, as Magnetic Stripe Transmission, that is, in a small phone in Samsung, a magnetic stripe simulator is built in, that is, a small antenna that imitates a magnetic strip on a real card.
And if, for example, the signal does not support the contactless payment method, you can put your phone to the reader on the signal, and you can successfully make a payment. This all happens because the Samsung Pay system uses its own card that it issued, without a chip. It's as if you just swipe your regular card without a chip on the card reader.
And everything goes smoothly without a PIN code. Or if you use the usual method, that is, contactless payment Apple Pay. I very often heard such a concept as at the checkout, there, for example, they say, like, I have an operation by finger, you know, by finger, that is, to scan a fingerprint instead of a PIN code. A PIN code is not needed, a fingerprint is needed. You either enter the PIN code, which is there Google Pay, enter 4 digits on the phone, or a fingerprint on Apple Pay, or on Samsung Pay.
Or by Face ID. Yes, or Face ID confirms that you are the one paying, the cardholder, its owner.
How many carders do you know who are engaged in real carding?
Pavlovich:
How many other real carders like you do you know now, who work in the CIS countries?
Carder:
If in the CIS countries, not personally, but in forms, there can be 3-4 people. In general, on average, it seems to me, if we talk about large cities, about Moscow, then there can be 2 carders for every million people. True, this is a very rare phenomenon now, because even when we discussed the topic, you said, well, the topic seems to have died, kicked the bucket, it is impossible to do anything with it now and cash it out.
But this is not so, because many people, when they enter this topic now in our time, nothing works out for them, because there are very big restrictions, they just leave there, they do not have enough persistence. If you try many different cards, then you will obviously find some working one, a working bank, a working country and you will, in principle, have money in it. And, as they say, you do not need to think here, you just need to go and try, and that's it.
You take 20 different cards, go and try them, one of them will definitely work.
What are the risks?
Pavlovich:
Like arbitrageurs, yes, find a working combination, also a combination, bank, country, well, yes. That kind of thing. The risks for this whole thing, that is, I sat for more than 10 years for this.
Carder:
So, well, if we talk about Russia, yes, as I said before, now in principle, yes, cashiers do not pay due attention to this, and often due to their negligence, very large-scale fraud occurs in this area. These are quite difficult to prove, yes, crimes according to statistics, there, 80% of these crimes, yes, they, well, either are not proven, or are proven, but a sincere confession.
That is, well, how is it, a policeman comes up to you, yeah, well, you, roughly speaking, just started doing these first week, he comes up, they tell you, well, well, guy, yeah, there, well, like you were detained at the checkout, the cashier detained you, he comes up, they say, you didn’t pay with anything, you write with your card. They say, your card? Well, yeah, mine. They say, well, yours was stolen from the network. It’s not your card. Well, like, it’s clear that it’s not your card, right? You’d better confess to everything now. And we’ll, in principle, write you a suspended sentence, right? Well, it’s an economic crime, right? The sentences there aren’t particularly long, yeah, and so on. Well, we’ll write you a suspended sentence, you’ll just write cordially on the plus sign too, yeah, there, plus a star on your shoulder straps, and you’ll get a plus there, I don’t know, that you’ll just have a suspended sentence.
Well, that’s how it all gets revealed most often. Or, yes, as it is now, well, they used to do it before, yes, they used drops, yes, the so-called ones. There is one in your book too, you said that he did badly there, yes, he could have been burned because of this. Well, as a rule, a drop too. They will catch him, yes, and it is very easy to make the drop turn you in and based on the testimony of your drop they will come to your home, yes, God forbid they find counterfeit cards there, yes, credit cards.
Well, that's it, you are the organizer. He will say, yes, he forced me, I didn't know that they were counterfeit, he forced me to go to the store with them to pay. I paid with them, yes, and because of this I was caught. I am not guilty of anything, I didn't know that they were counterfeit, I didn't want to deceive anyone and so on.
Pavlovich:
So it is safer to work on your own?
Carder:
It is safer, of course, in any system, in any scheme. Nobody knows anything, only you know and only you give all the testimony. And, basically, to make it so that... Well, it's like poker, you know. Like poker, right? You won't... Well, I mean, a policeman is your opponent. You won't show him all your cards, you'll play fair with him. I mean, policemen have their own job, you can use Article 51 of the Constitution there, that is, not testify against yourself and your loved ones.
And, basically, you don’t say anything, well, you were caught with this card, let’s say, a counterfeit one, right? You, well, I don’t know, broke it, ate it, yeah, and that’s it. I mean, what are they going to do with it, right? You don’t have a counterfeit card. The transaction went through, roughly speaking, you bought something, showed the cashier that it wasn’t yours, he detained you, you went to the department, you broke the card or threw it away, I don’t know, somewhere unnoticed. You’re at the department, the card is gone, they think, how are we going to open a criminal case?
I mean, some numbers, some foreign bank, some money went to someone, nothing is clear. They ask, what did you pay with? I’ll say, well, I paid with something. They say, well, what did you pay with? Well, what did you pay with, yeah. Well, we can talk like that for a long time, they’ll never understand, there, yeah, what went where. Making a request to a foreign bank is also very difficult, especially since no one will make money there from some, roughly speaking, 15 thousand rubles, yes.
Pavlovich:
They will make a request to your kidneys a couple of times.
Carder:
Yes, a couple of times to your kidneys, if you confess, it will be good, if not, then they will let you go. If you confess, it will be good and in general, if everything will be bad in the worst case, then Article 187 is counterfeiting of means of payment and now they have slightly expanded even for counterfeiting Apple Pay, here the article of the decision of freedom follows up to 60 years here
A, let's say, if they did not prove that you counterfeited the card, in the case of one cosmic card, they did not consider it a counterfeit, all this was not considered significant evidence, they will say that you fraudulently took possession of some goods, stole it from the store. Well, 159 is the first or the 2nd, 3rd, it depends on the amount of damage. They can, if you, I don’t know, someone else knew about it, it doesn’t matter, your friend, let’s say, was nearby, they can easily make a group of people.
The friend will say, yes, I didn’t know. They will say, yes, you will prove that you didn’t know. Well, and there will already be a group of people. That is, in principle, if they want to close you down, they will close you down.
How many times have you been caught?
Pavlovich:
How many times have you been caught?
Carder:
Caught? So, to end up in the police station? Pavlovich: In all sorts of ways. Carder: Zero. Pavlovich: And not to end up in some kind of awkward situations in your career at all? Carder: Not to end up in? In the sense? Pavlovich: Well, I mean, have you ever ended up in some kind of awkward situations, situations when it was just one step away from calling the police and your failure? Carder: Yes, it was, you know, I was standing at the checkout, I was standing at the checkout, buying something in an electronics store, and basically I was buying, I think I was buying, what were they called, gift cards from Sony Playstation, these games that, yes, gift certificates from Sony Playstation.
I bought, I think, for the amount of small transactions, 5 thousand rubles for 40 and 50 thousand rubles and in general I am standing there in my briefcase next to me there is an encoder, I did not have a car then, there is an encoder, I have about 10 fake plastic cards there that I have not yet rolled over, about 10 fake plastic cards, I am standing there, the cashier makes a call on the phone, she says there, well, something there, she looks at me like that, then says something into the receiver, I do not hear, yes, but I understand that something is wrong, that something is wrong And she says there, yes, do not count it there anymore, yes, I hear these words, my heart starts beating wildly, I do not understand what to do, yes, if I leave now, yes, well, just there, leave for no reason, it will be, well, somehow very strange to look, yes, and that is a shopping center there, well, you never know, there, they'll call security, they'll hold me down, something else, I'm just standing there, yeah, well, with this look, I say, well, you have some problems, maybe I should give you some cash, yeah, or something else, and she says, well, security just called me, why are you there, well, I paid with a fullback, why are you tripling the cards three times?
She says, well, I know what you're doing. You know, I can call security right now, yeah, and that's it. Well, I look at her, smile, I say, I don't understand what you're talking about, everything seems to be working for me. Well, I take what I bought and just leave. Well, for me then it was probably something very, very shocking, yes, that could only happen to me because, well, then, indeed, they could accept me, and specifically, and, in general, yes,
I had an encoder, with the help of which they could even take me for examination right in the department, just conduct it, understand that they are fake, and, in principle, that's it.
How long have you been doing this?
Pavlovich:
And how many years in total have you been doing this?
Carder:
In total, yes, well, about 2000 years. If so, so that, yes, something was already working out, yes, then let's take 2016. 2016, because then I knew a lot of theories, I still hadn't gotten around to practice. It turns out that now it's 2019, three years have passed and now I'm 18 years old, then I was 15.5. And, well, imagine, a 15.5-year-old boy, a teenager, walks around, buys something.
It’s clear that it looks very stupid, and if you go there to buy yourself some large purchase, well, I don’t know, if in big cities it’s normal, then in my city, where I live and was born, it will look pretty strange. Firstly, it’s scary, you don’t know how to do anything, it was the first time you did all this, but gradually, you know, the friendly hands syndrome, when you approach, your heart beats, you understand that you will now pay with the wrong card,
God forbid the cashier catches you doing this somehow and you can go to jail for it, it's really scary, but you know, if you've gotten over this "squeezing backpack" syndrome and things have started to work out for you, then you've become a carder, if not, then you'll go to jail.
Pavlovich:
But I want to say that I've always felt scary when I paid with someone else's credit card, I've always had situations where my card was confiscated, but I managed to get away with it. Well, right by the code it was stolen, you know, confiscate the card, detain the owner, that is, I managed to get away with it. Yes, I don't know if my dad's card is still there, but it was kept by the cashier, of course. And you're also on the cameras in the store. Well, it's a bit of a scary occupation.
And, as it turns out now, it's not that profitable.
How much longer will you do this, what will make you quit?
Pavlovich:
Okay, and how much longer will you continue to do this and what will make you quit?
Carder:
Well, actually, about the last six months, maybe a little more, I think, in good cases it really comes out to about a million rubles a month, on average about 500-600 thousand rubles a month. And I wonder, is this the money for which it is then worth serving, like you, 10 years of your life.
If you calculate it like that, divide these millions a month by these never, which you will serve for nothing, then these are some sad sums. And are those emotions, the risk that you take for the sake of these sums, which in fact are not that big, worth it. Yes, for you, for a person who was born somewhere in a provincial town, who has not seen life, these are really huge sums.
A million rubles, where can you spend it, it would seem, yes, as Sergey Popov said, that's right, you seem to live like an ordinary person, you eat, well, perhaps more expensively than others, you take a taxi, there, more expensively than others, well, this money goes away very quickly. And, probably, I would think about investing what I managed to earn, some amounts, it is clear that I invested something, yes, even for the same lawyer, yes, for a rainy day, so to speak, invest somewhere in the right direction, in which the turnover will really be several times greater.
I heard that many coffee shops in Moscow, other businesses, they get monthly turnover, under 70 million rubles monthly turnover. Of which net profit is 5, 6, 7, 8 million rubles in hand. It is very interesting and understandable that with those organizational capabilities, yes, and with that effort, yes, because, in fact, what does a typical day consist of, yes, it is you wake up, yes, there, write off, there, roughly speaking, there, with Skodera, yes, who, there, helps you, there, write software, write viruses, yes, asks, there, how everything is done, check, there, who are you kicking, yes, there, well, let's say you have three people working, yes, you, there, act as an organizer, yes, you make sure that everything works, yes, really, that the material, there, goes, yes, there is a constant turnover of money, as if everyone received everything and with such a desire to make money and work, you can, in principle, have a good legal business with a good income.
In principle, and how you, as a person, inspires me very much precisely in terms of legalizing everything that is left after you. That is, yes, your entire experience, it would seem, is criminal, it has very well transferred to such a legal type of activity, and what did you realize, well, as I understand it, only in prison, that after all, in life... Life is not measured in numbers, not in numbers, but...
Well, it seems to me that life is not measured in numbers, but in relationships with people, and, yes, you need to do something truly useful for the world, for yourself and for your loved ones.
What else can you do?
Pavlovich:
And what else can you do in life?
Carder:
Probably, before I took up the cardinal and in the process of taking up the cardinal, when something didn’t work out, I tried different things, tried video filming, tried some... I remember, I was sitting at home one day, I had 5 thousand rubles in my pocket. And I thought, what can I do with 5 thousand rubles? What kind of business? I came up with something like, you know, it was called, well, I don’t remember the name exactly now, but it was like these little gifts, you know, surprise gifts.
That is, you pay a certain amount, and they put gifts for you for a certain amount.
Pavlovich:
Today, I was offered to advertise something like this, well, it seems like it’s not a scam, yes, that is, I asked them what the person gets, they say, well, what kind of gift does he expect, what is it.
Carder:
Yes, yes, based on his interests, some preferences, and so on.
Pavlovich:
But I told them that, I say, you can’t handle my advertising budget, and there, well, my budget is quite high, they say.
Carder:
I’m even interested in finding out how much.
Pavlovich:
They offered me half the amount, I say, no, well, excuse me.
Carder:
Not interested.
Pavlovich:
Not interested, yes.
Carder:
Well, I've tried a lot, I'll say I've tried a lot, but why did it happen here? I don't know why, maybe it really is my thing, yes, because at that time I started getting into card tricks, just card tricks with cards, with regular grinds. And I really liked communicating, I won't say deceiving people, just giving people emotions, by being able to do some kind of shenanigans, even with cards, to surprise them somehow.
I don't know, is it somehow connected with bank cards, probably not, but I just liked somehow communicating with people, because you still communicate with these cashiers, with someone else, with consultants in the store. It's all constant communication, and a certain image is needed, of course. It all adds up, and in the end you get an expensive paid product without any suspicions about your identity.
Yeah, well, came, bought, left, that's it. That is, an ordinary person, there, in ordinary Moscow. You don't arouse any suspicions, no one thinks anything about you. In principle, you can work for a long time, yes, there, two, three, four years. But, of course, sooner or later you start to relax, you start to come out of this image, you show that you don't count money. And after that, well, some questions arise for you. And, perhaps, right at the checkout one day, on an ordinary day, you will go to pay for some product to sell it.
And they will just grab you right at the checkout and say "that's it, you were in development there for some time, we know everything about you, in principle, there is no point in you saying anything there, making excuses, everything is there."
What product is the most liquid?
Pavlovich:
And what product is the most liquid?
Carder:
Liquid? Equipment. Of course, there has always been liquid equipment, then comes clothing, some mass markets, yes, and ending with some thematic things like dishes, Well, you know, things that everyone needs, but not everyone is ready to buy them.
Pavlovich:
At full price?
Carder:
Well, not at full price, 50 to 20% of the equipment is dropped. Equipment can be sold for 90% of the cost.
Where do you sell carved goods?
Pavlovich:
And where do you sell them?
Carder:
Buyers.
Carder:
These are often companies that are simply engaged in the sale of equipment, you just resell it to them, it is very profitable for them, they put it out as just a promotional item and that's it. And so you sell the goods. It is profitable for them, they get gigantic money in comparison. Well, you sold it for 90% of the cost, yes. They there, well, they sell some expensive goods for 95% or 98%, it doesn't matter. Well, there is still some kind of discount, if we talk about clothes, there is more, yes, a sale, so to speak, 60% of the cost.
Well, it is beneficial for everyone. That is, if we talk about who suffers in this system, anyone can suffer, from the card owner to the bank that conducted the transactions in Russia. But most often, if we talk about why, then the cashiers do not ask you a question, because the money of the store where you buy something will always receive money according to the law. In Russia, stores are protected by law.
And the bank that conducted the transaction in Russia may not receive money in one case, if it violated the rules for conducting the transaction, which were regulated by the payment system, generally speaking. Incorrectly sent data in the wrong format or used an inferior method of card authorization. That is, if the card has a chip, and the terminal was without Had to swipe along the grave strip, the bank in Russia will not receive money, that is, it will not receive for conducting the transaction.
Who suffers most often? This is either the issuing bank in the same America that issued the American card, or the insurance company, because in most cases, American bank accounts are insured and the insurance company suffers as well. If the transaction was with a PIN code, or it was somehow forged, the cardholder was unable to prove that it was not he in Russia, or there was a person in Russia at that time when money was withdrawn from his card, then he will not be able to prove that it was not he who paid the issuer.
In general, in rare cases the holder suffers, including if the transaction was with a PIN code. If he lost the PIN code, this is his personal information, which he promised the bank that it would not lose. He lost it, accordingly, no one will return the money for the transaction that he did not conduct. And most often, the organizer of this whole mess with bank cards is the payment system that issued the card.
It is an intermediary between the bank that issued the card and the store. It transfers money in fact, well, and to people as well, who pay, that is, it transfers money from the bank, yes, from a person's account to the payment account of the retail outlet, yes. And most often the payment system suffers, because, well, it often bears all the risks, yes, it always guarantees everything to everyone, but it does not always work out.
And it bears great risks in conducting fraudulent transactions, well, and most often it compensates them.
Pavlovich:
Well, okay, thank you for coming, don't forget about such things, don't relax, it's better to tie up this criminal crap as soon as possible, do something useful, thank you, viewers, but what you all saw and heard, that is, my time, it was a little different, it's up to you to draw conclusions, in general, I don't know, I'll express my opinion on this whole situation, but in any case, let it not be easy
it is criminal and it can one day lead you to jail, so write in the comments what you liked, what you didn't like and in general what questions you have about this video, I will certainly answer myself and voice them there to other market professionals and we will think about your questions together.
Carder:
I will even say at the end that it does not matter how it all began, what matters is how it all ends, sooner or later it will all.
Pavlovich:
Well, you see, in your case they haven't caught you yet, I hope it will continue like this, good luck to everyone, thank you, bye!
- Disclaimer: Sergei Pavlovich's cat and is the guest lying?
- What are we going to talk about?
- Why did you come? Is this carding trend still alive?
- What does a bank card consist of, what is it?
- The structure of a bank card
- How to bypass PIN code, chip?
- How can you withdraw money from someone else's card now?
- Is it impossible to withdraw money from foreign cards using a magnetic strip in Russia?
- What do you do with the cards?
- Prepaid cards, working with them
- What is the percentage of valid cards, how much do you withdraw from one, how much do dumps cost?
- What map dumps work best right now?
- About hackers: who and how obtains dumps?
- How do you check dumps?
- Do you make cards via Apple Pay, Google Pay?
- How many carders do you know who do real carding?
- What are the risks?
- How many times have you been caught?
- How long have you been doing this?
- How much longer will you do this that will make you quit?
- What else can you do?
- Which product is the most liquid?
- Where do you sell carved goods?
Enjoy reading!
Disclaimer: Sergei Pavlovich's cat and is the guest lying?
Pavlovich:
Friends! Okay, it's not about the cat. Although, of course, subscribe to the channel for the cat and I will announce a competition for you. The first one to write in the comments the correct name of the cat, as we called him, will receive 2,000 rubles from me on a mobile phone account card.
But I am removing this disclaimer now not for this, but because for the first time in all my releases I have encountered the fact that I do not know what the hero of my interview says, whether it is true or not. Judge for yourself, he is engaged in the topic of real plastic, that is, he shops with counterfeit bank cards in stores. That is, what I actually did more than 15 years ago. And we all know that today, for any purchase over a thousand rubles, a PIN code is required, which he does not have.
Of course, there are certain tricks when you can conduct a transaction without a PIN, but I really find it difficult to answer whether this is true or not, so I ask professionals in this topic to unsubscribe under the release and not judge strictly. I was also confused by the fact that the guy says that he started to get something there 3-4-5 years ago in this topic, while he himself is very young and it turns out that he has been messing around there since he was almost 12 years old, which is another questionable point.
Well, the third point, I ask him a question during the interview and I catch myself thinking that now he will not answer with a phrase from my own book, you understand? All this confused me greatly, but the release was filmed, so I present it to you for judgment, all questions and comments in the comments, do not judge strictly, enjoy reading!
Why are you here? Why did you come?
Carder:
Everything I am telling you today is a figment of my imagination. Basically, any, roughly speaking, schoolchild, yes, can now take, buy this device and engage in counterfeiting bank or other cards.
Pavlovich:
Having a PIN is the same as already having cash in your pocket. That is, you went to any ATM and withdrew. Why?
Carder:
Let's say that... Honestly, I don't know. Okay, then we'll conduct a short tutorial for all subscribers who have encoders, yes, and some bank cards.
What are we going to talk about?
Pavlovich:
Friends, hello today's episode is about what I basically dedicated a good half of my criminal career to and we'll talk about real plastic, about real carding, that is, an episode with a virtual carder who steals money via the Internet and cashes out other people's bank cards in various ways. You saw my very popular episode and I hope that this one won't be popular, because the things being told are close to me, it's about counterfeiting credit cards, well, debit cards in general, yes, that is, bank cards in general and how easy it is today to withdraw money from a cloned bank card.
On air is a guest who came, well, as always, from far away, well, and I don’t even really know where from, I don’t want to know without a name, without anything, well, you know, anonymity, as always. So we’ll talk about real plastic.
This is what the direction in carding is called, yes, that is, in my time it was called exactly that, real plastic, and it was news to me to learn that it is still practiced, because practically everywhere cards, if you look, now I’ll close, yes, look, with a chip, well, with a chip and, well, there is also a magnetic strip, but with a chip, cards are much more difficult to counterfeit, plus transactions today are mainly done with PIN codes.
Why did you come, is this direction of carding alive?
Pavlovich:
Then tell us why you are here, why did you come and how is this direction of carding alive today and is it alive at all?
Carder:
Well, probably yes, I will tell the audience first that everything I am telling today is most likely a figment of my imagination, yes, and perhaps I made some things up, some Perhaps some stories really happened to me, yes, and I came to this interview with Sergey, probably, in order to somehow simply summarize what I have been doing. In principle, yes, now what is being discussed in this video. And somehow, probably, then summarize everything and understand in general whether I am going in the right direction or not, or perhaps engage in some other activity.
Because, probably, Sergey knows that when he wrote the book, he himself said that by doing so he summarized his entire path that he went through and somehow realized all this and understood that it was worth changing his life for the better somehow.
Pavlovich:
Maybe not for the better, but in the other direction. Probably, yes. We do not know yet, for the better or for the worse. We people can generally evaluate this after a long period of time, we do not see the whole picture in perspective. Is the real plastic trend alive today?
Carder:
Well, in general, what is plastic, what is real, what is it called, yes, real cardinal. In fact, now every person in Russia and in any other country probably has a credit card. Well, not everyone, at least in Russia, but in other countries a credit card or just a debit card. It is a very common phenomenon, in fact, every citizen of the country has one. And as if a salary comes to it, you can pay with it in the store, pay for purchases on the Internet.
And this card, what is it essentially? It is the key to your safe deposit box. That is, when you initially come to the bank, you open an account in the bank. And to access this account, later, when you have money on it, you are given a credit or debit card, it doesn’t matter, depending on your account in the bank. And with the help of this key card, so to speak, you can use your money, be hospitalized in any direction. And just like that, as you know, yes, there are locks, there are keys. And, in principle, it is very easy to make a duplicate of any key.
That is, we go to any studio where they are made, yes, and they make a mold of this key for us, and then make a copy. In principle, the same can be done with this key, because it... Its properties, like, have access to some, yes, let's say, very interesting things in the form of money, yes, or a key to an apartment, where we can steal a TV or take something else from the apartment, and we can also duplicate it and use it to get the money we need from the card. Carder:
And, probably, it is worth telling, what does it consist of in general, this key, right?
What does a bank card consist of, what is it?
Pavlovich:
Well, it seems to me, first of all it is necessary to say that there is no money on a credit card, on a bank card in general. That is, this is a common misconception, as our hero of today said, a bank card is only access to your account, a kind of key, yes. That is, it is not a chest where money is, but simply a key to this chest, so to speak.
The structure of a bank card.
Carder:
As they say, the money is in the bank, and the bank is in a can, so to speak.
In principle, any bank card consists of a chip, which is located on the front side of the bank card. There is also a bank logo, a payment system logo and some other information, that is, the bank account number, the expiration date and the initials of the user of this card. On the other hand, we have a magnetic strip.
We have a magnetic strip, which also contains some information that is used to access a bank account.
Pavlovich:
In essence, the magnetic strip duplicates the chip, the same information is recorded on the chip and the magnetic strip, the so-called dump, just in slightly different ways. Roughly speaking, yes, that is, in general, initially credit or debit cards, they were without a chip, well, you don’t even have to pick it up, they were just without this chip. Now they all come with three payment methods, so to speak, yes, either by chip, or by, so to speak, the PayWave or PayPass system, different payment systems have it arranged differently. Contactless payment. By-Fi, yes, contactless payment, RFID. And it is also possible, yes, in some rare cases to swipe coin colossuses through terminals, yes, and, in general, initially Previously, starting in the 90s, until 2008-2006, everyone paid by magnetic strip, i.e. The card consisted simply of a piece of plastic on which the account number, its expiration date and the card owner were written, well, and the CVV code, of course, and there was a regular magnetic strip on it. Well, and with the help of a magnetic strip, you could simply go to a POS terminal, there was a reader for this magnetic strip, you could simply swipe and not some PIN codes and other some confirming, say, data of the owner of this card. That is, the PIN code, what is it for? To confirm that the card is yours. Only you know the PIN code, no one else knows it, not a single bank owner, not a single bank employee, no one else except you. And when you enter a PIN code, you confirm that it is you who is making the transaction, and no one else. And cards previously had no security functions, except that they were just an ordinary key.
In general, it is very easy to counterfeit such a key, that is, there is a special device for it, the so-called encoders. Now they are contactless, that is, it is a contactless device that you can connect to your phone via Bluetooth and swipe the magnetic strip of the card. Swipe this device and you will be able to see the information that is on the magnetic strip.
And by simple manipulations, take your, say, card, that is, you take a scaly card, swipe it on the encoder, read the information and with the help of a phone, an application on the phone, also with the help of an encoder, you can once again swipe your card on this encoder and write the information from one card to your own and, roughly speaking, go somewhere there to perform some operations on it, purchases and so on. And it is not even necessary to have a bank card, for example, I have a discount card to Perekrestok, it also has a magnetic strip, in my time, for example, we wrote down on such cards, that is, you go to an ATM, no matter what name is on it, etc., it only counts the magnetic strip, but for this you only needed an encoder, in my time they cost about a thousand dollars, 900-1100. And how much do encoders cost now? Carder: Now it is a device for reading a magnetic strip. That's right, Sergey, it is an Albanian card, it is either a discount card or some other pass to some place. They are now on AliExpress, you can buy them on eBay. They arrive literally in a week, you can buy them for about 10-12 thousand rubles, if you are in rubles. That is, in dollars it is approximately 200 dollars, let's say. Basically, anyone, roughly speaking, a schoolchild can now take, buy this device and start counterfeiting bank or other cards. That's it. It's very simple. No special knowledge is needed to take and write off all this, just swipe the cards, download an application from some Play Market. Anyone can do this very easily? How to bypass the PIN code, chip? Pavlovich: Okay, two questions at once. First, before, a PIN code was almost always required for debit cards, for credit cards it was not required and you could, well, except for an ATM of course, I mean when shopping in a store with debit cards quite often, almost always knocked out a PIN code in the West, including especially in the West. This was not the case with credit cards and you could quite easily make a purchase simply by swiping through the terminal, but it was not you who swiped through the POS terminal. When making expensive purchases, they constantly asked for an identity card, driver's license, driver's license or passport and looked to see if your last name on the card matches the last name in the presented document. And especially meticulous cashiers back then also looked at checks, the check that appears after a transaction is approved or rejected, it is called a Slip.
Pavlovich:
Let me add. An encoder, in essence, yes, it is like in a tape recorder. Now, if anyone in the audience remembers cassette tape recorders, that is, you copied from one cassette. And in an audio cassette or video cassette, that is just ordinary magnetic film. The same thing, that on the back of the card there is a magnetic strip, yes, that is, it is an ordinary film that can be magnetized. And accordingly, just as you copied from one cassette to another using a two-cassette tape recorder, you can also read a dunk from a card's magnetic strip and rewrite it to any other disc.
They looked and saw if the last name matched. If you are clumsy and did not rewrite the card well, you can, for example, in the first track, and the dump on the magnetic strip consists of two tracks, track 1 and track 2, you could write any last name, or you could forget it, not write anything at all.
But now, firstly, transactions are mainly done by chip, and secondly, for all purchases that you make, in Russia now over a thousand rubles, by the way, they raised it to three thousand, but Visa allowed it, but it does not work everywhere yet, that is, only at the implementation stage. All purchases with mandatory entry of a PIN code. And how is this problem solved now? Firstly, a chip, secondly, entering a PIN code. Well, look, in general, initially these bank cards, they appeared a long time ago, back in the 1947s. It was all in America, it was founded in America. It came to Russia somewhere in the 90s, 2000s. And, strictly speaking, of course, the system has only just come to us. Of course, the payment systems are also foreign, visa and master card have only just entered our country, and, of course, whenever something new appears, everything is done clearly and according to the rules. Everything is controlled, all the cashiers have been trained, all the retailers have been told everything about how it all works, and really, what needs to be done, checked, not checked, and in general, how it all should work. Well, roughly speaking, if we return to our reality, when 2012-2013-2014, that's about the time I started working in real life, then cashiers had already gotten used to the fact that everyone pays with cards, especially in big cities like Moscow and St. Petersburg, if we're talking about Russia, everyone there had already gotten used to the fact that everyone pays, in principle, everyone always pays with their cards, especially since by that time a chip had already appeared, and when a person pays with a chip, there will definitely be a PIN code, 100% his card, his last name and first name, in general, everything is good. And cashiers, of course, began to lose their vigilance. And now, let's say, we have a lot of different payment methods. Chip, contactless payment, if an old card, without a chip, then by a coin strip. And you can, like, the cashier won't ask, yes, why are you crying like that, why like that, yes, of course, they are used to the fact that now a person uses a chip, and a chip is, that this is chip and PIN technology, that is, when you insert a chip, a card with a chip, you are required to enter a PIN code, yes, because such a technology, it appeared precisely in order to protect banks and in general, well, in principle, to protect this entire system from fraud, because, probably, it is worth telling what the difference is between chipped cards and cards with only a magnetic strip. Pavlovich:
Carder:
Yes, let's do it with a magnetic strip. This is the so-called card, yes, it has a chip and a magnet, it's called hybrid. Yes, yes. Now, I haven't seen one with just a magnetic strip and I haven't seen one with just a chip. That is, all the cards that exist now are hybrid - a magnet and a chip in front. What is a chip? A chip is essentially a microprocessor, a microcomputer, it has, roughly speaking, its own operating system, it has its own applications that are on it. And with the help of these applications, in general, there is information there that cannot be read from the chip, it is in some closed sections and it is impossible to copy this information, accordingly, it is impossible to counterfeit the chip. But, of course, you will think, why is it necessary to counterfeit a chip if there is a magnetic strip, you can also swipe it through the terminal, yes, and this design will work without a PIN code. In fact, when you swipe a magnetic stripe across a terminal just like that, there is information stored on that magnetic stripe that there is a chip on the card, and you need to insert the card with the chip and enter the PIN code, because why do you swipe the stripe if you have a chip. And, accordingly, you insert the chip and enter the PIN code to perform the transaction. It is difficult to deceive this system, almost impossible without special knowledge. Pavlovich: You can scratch it, and it will simply perceive that the chip is there, but it is faulty. And then, a priori, in theory, they are knocked out. I just haven't done it for a long time. The last time I stole money from bank cards was probably in 2003 or 2004. More precisely, no, in 2008. And then they simply withdrew money using the magnetic stripe without any problems. But if we scratch the chip, what will happen? Carder: Well, let's put it this way, yes, of course, a chip is a microcircuit, a microcircuit can, yes, roughly speaking, be stunned, yes. Pavlovich: Yes, it can be taped. Carder: Yes, it can be taped, damaged, somehow, yes, made to stop it functioning, yes. And many terminals support, of course, such a function, yes, that is, a person wants to make a purchase, yes, roughly speaking, quite a large one. That is, a person came to buy a watch there, yes, roughly speaking, for a million rubles. And then there is such a situation. He has the funds, people are ready to sell him this watch, to make a good profit, but the situation is that his chip does not work. It is clear that if a person does not pay for such an expensive watch, then what will happen? The outlet will not receive this money, will not make a profit. The money will not make a profit, that is, roughly speaking, this terminal will not receive any. It is installed by some bank or some system that carries out these transactions by cards. And for each transaction this system receives a percentage. Pavlovich:
Carder:
Yes, initially, as I said, the cards only had a magnetic strip. You could just swipe them, without having to figure out PIN codes, and the transaction would be successful. Then everyone started cloning all the cards, making duplicates, paying with cards that weren't theirs. The level of fraud increased greatly in all directions, because the technology was new and unbridled. And somewhere around 2005-2008, payment systems decided to introduce chip and pin technology, that is, they started, so to speak, to insert a chip into the card, into this regular plastic.
But the bank, together with the payment system, with Visa, MasterCard, American Express, also receive a percentage for the transaction and divide it among themselves.
Carder:
Yes, yes. That is, no one will get any money. Everyone will be unhappy. The client, the point of sale, and other systems that process card transactions. Of course, it is a shame if the chip does not work, but the terminal has provided such a payment system function as fallback. The so-called fallback function, that is, if the chip does not work, yes, it depends on how many times you insert the card into the terminal, that is, different banks have different terminal settings, and so on, that is, there are terminals in which it is enough to insert the card once either the other way around, or with a really faulty chip, yes, and the terminal will ask you to swipe the magnetic strip, and, accordingly, when you swipe the magnetic strip, the terminal does not require a PIN code, or any other data, in principle, except that the cashier will ask you to sign the check after the transaction.
Pavlovich:
Well, according to the rules, he should also compare your signature on the card with the signature you put on the check. But I don't have a signature on one card at all, and it's already worn off on the others. Well, I have three cards and I don't have a signature on any of them. This is no longer relevant, you know.
Carder:
Yes, in fact, cashiers forget to do a lot of things. And, probably, this topic of real carding continues to exist only because of the negligence of cashiers. Because they are, roughly speaking, the first link in this chain that should protect the entire system from fraud. But the first link, as they say, gave in, and, accordingly, that's it, the fraud went in a circle, just like that. Well, that's it.
Pavlovich:
So you're saying that despite all the security of chip cards, that is, you can damage the chip, or tape it over, or disable it in some other way, or simply, as you say, insert the card the wrong way several times, and so on, and that the terminal will knock out a transaction request on the magnetic strip? Yes. Well, how many times do I need to, say, insert it into the terminal there so that it doesn't knock out on the magnetic strip?
Carder:
It all depends, as I said earlier, on the terminal settings, that is, you can insert it once, twice, three times, or all five times, such settings also exist. And the terminal will ask to swipe the coin strip. It's already 2019, it all started in the 2000s. This whole system of fraud on credit cards, on plastic. And, of course, many payment systems have noticed that they have learned to bypass these systems.
And, let's say, the MasterCard payment system, it allowed banks to disable this function on terminals. That is, you can shove it there as many times as you want, but the terminal will still not ask you to swipe it. It will write there that the chip is faulty, try another card.
Pavlovich:
That is, it depends, the ability to make a transaction on a magnetic strip depends solely on the bank that issued the terminal?
Carder:
Roughly speaking, yes. Well, a terminal can be issued not only by a bank, but also by a so-called processing company. Processing. What is a processing company? It simply takes the client's money from the card, transfers it to the pocket of an account in a bank, which is located... In general, an ordinary store has an account in a bank. Where they receive all the profit from customers who process the account by card.
And it simply transfers money from the client's pocket to the account in the bank of this outlet. Because of this, they also, of course, take their commission and they have their own terminals. In most cases, which, of course, are installed by banks. In Russia, these are VTB, Sberbank, Raiffeisenbank, Gazprombank and others. Banks that have their own terminals, their own settings and their own specifics of conducting transactions by cards.
Probably, it is worth mentioning Sberbank. Sberbank is one of the first. Sberbank is the leader. The market leader. It occupies, probably, 90% of all terminals in Russia. And, in general, it is a monopoly bank, I think. I just looked at a lot of statistics on this topic. And, in general, they were the first to disable this option. That is, they, in principle, now Sberbank is the most secure organization for conducting transactions, so to speak.
The most secure bank in which you can issue your cards and not be afraid of fraud on these cards.
Pavlovich:
Well, I don’t quite agree, because my Izberovskaya, Sberbank with my Izberovskaya card can pay in an Alfa terminal, for example, or Reifazen using a magnetic strip.
Carder:
Yes, they can, but, again, Sberbank can protect not only its clients, but also, of course, itself. What is the most important task of the bank? It is to protect itself, first of all, and, probably, to protect the state of its clients. And if we talk about the fact that Sberbank has 90% of the market and most people who have Sberbank cards pay at Sberbank, then the transactions are as safe as possible, let's say.
They happen inside the bank and, in general, this is good.
Pavlovich:
Okay, does Sberbank prohibit fallback transactions on its cards?
Carder:
Sberbank, honestly, they, I tried to pay with a fullback on my card a couple of times, they do not prohibit it. Well, let's say I have a Rosgosstrakhbank card, there, when I try to pay with a fullback, the terminal pops up a receipt, and it says that this type of transaction is prohibited for the card. That is, when the request came to the bank, the bank refused to write off funds, because the transaction was in the fullback mode, that is, on a coin strip without a chip, although there is a chip on the card, and the transaction should have been carried out using the chip.
That's it.
How can you withdraw money from someone else's card now?
Pavlovich:
Decline was knocked out there, 51, 57, I remember these codes by heart, yes, decline, refusal. Good. And what exactly is the opportunity to steal money in a store now, right? I'll explain, in order to steal from an ATM, we need a PIN in any case, regardless of whether the transaction goes via the magnetic strip or the chip.
Having a PIN, that is, having a PIN, it's the same as already having cash in your pocket, that is, you went to any ATM and withdrew. Why?
Carder:
Well, now, yes, roughly speaking, if we are talking…
Pavlovich:
You want to talk about the region, right?
Carder:
I want to talk about, in general, yes, what are the Guys doing, the priority of carding in Russia, what is the purpose of carding? Information is taken from the magnetic strip of the card of only foreign issuer banks, that is, only foreign citizens.
Pavlovich:
For what reasons?
Carder:
Well, probably, first of all, let's say that our own security, yes, because the territory of the Russian Federation has not caused any harm to anyone, and the special services of the Russian Federation, well, in fact, they are not interested in this.
As a rule, if a person works for Sberbank, that is, will forge cards of Russian banks, then in fact large banks have connections to the federal security services in Russia, yes, very many, and you, in principle, will be very quickly, well, you, will be closed. But most often, of course, in the security service many banks think that no one is going to catch you, in principle, yes, you yourself will get caught, because you will steal a million rubles, two million, on the third you will get caught,
that's because you relax with time, yes, and the main mistake that many fraudsters get caught is, of course, their loss of vigilance and loss of accuracy. Over time, you start to get cheeky, increase the amount of transactions there, yes, and so on, and gradually-gradually you get into Most often, because these are crimes related to cybercrime, complex technology, and you are taken into development by the special services, and then you go somewhere relaxed, withdraw money from the card, and you are already taken by the hand, and you do not expect this, and you have a fake card in your hands, and you go to the branch.
Pavlovich:
Well, okay, we have decided on ATMs, but it is difficult with an ATM, in an ATM you need a PIN in any case. Okay, that's the first thing. I still do not understand, I did not hear the answer to the question, why then can't I withdraw from an ATM if I have a PIN?
In Russia, can't you withdraw money using a magnetic strip from foreign cards?
Carder:
If you work in Russia with Russian cards - you can. If you work with a foreign mediant, you can’t, because in Russia somewhere around the thousand, probably on the 8th, 9th, 10th, I don’t remember the year exactly, they turned off cash withdrawals for foreign issuers?
Pavlovich:
No, I can withdraw, I'm not far, like I did yesterday with my British card.
Carder:
Oh, in the magnetic strip.
Pavlovich:
Okay, by magnetic strip, right?
Carder:
Yes.
Pavlovich:
So, let's clarify then, that is, in Russia the ability to withdraw money from a foreign card by magnetic strip is disabled.
Carder:
Or am I wrong?
Pavlovich:
I don't know, I don't check, that is, what it outputs the transaction for.
Carder:
If we talk about the so-called region lock, then the restriction is by region, then in Russia by strip in many ATMs, it would seem that if chip-n-pin technology has arrived, then all ATMs should be equipped with magnetic stripe withdrawal technologies, or more precisely, by chip. This is not so, because changing ATMs all over Russia is very expensive, costly.
Therefore, many ATMs now work by magnetic stripe and withdrawing funds from them over the strange Internet is difficult. We will not say that it is impossible, but difficult. More often...
There, I don't know, in Belarus. Well, roughly speaking, you say, I'm traveling, unblock my card so I can withdraw money from it. Or you say that even before the start of your trip, and the regional restriction is lifted, because it is a very, yes, now a popular trick for banks to restrict cards by region. For example, in the US, there is a restriction on cards even within the state. That is, if you leave your state for another, you are unlikely to be able to either pay or withdraw money there, you will be refused.
Because in the US there is fraud, bank cards are stolen from each other within the country and because of this there are such serious restrictions.
Pavlovich:
How can we determine from the magnetic strip dump whether the card is locked to its home region or not? It was just very simple in my time. The dump, it is generally what is recorded on the magnetic strip, what does it consist of? That is, the card number on the front side, then there is an equal sign, then the expiration date, and not 05, there is 23, like
mine, but the opposite, 2305, and then there were the numbers 101, if the card worked all over the world, yes, or 201, if it was only on your home side, here, and then a few more numbers, it was just a code that, well, to access your bank account.
How can you determine now, that is, a dump of a credit card that you buy, steal somewhere, find there, I don’t know, well, it will be locked to a certain country, or it will work without problems all over the world?
Carder:
Okay, now we will conduct such a small tutorial for all subscribers who have encoders, yes, and some bank cards. If you now, right now, enter your card, yes, a bank card, it doesn't matter which one, yes, swipe it on the encoder, you will indeed see such information there, And, Sergey said correctly, there is a service code, the so-called. It consists of three digits, and, it would seem, yes, there are three simple digits, but each of these three digits has its own meaning. And there is a special reference there, yes, it says the meaning of each digit, what it means.
Yes, there are two main service codes, these are 101 and 201, and, if we talk about our time, there is 101, yes, 121, 126 service code. All service codes that start with either a one or a five imply that the card, originally a plastic card from which the imprint was taken, that is, this information, is chipless. Chipless, that is, it can be used to pay in a store, for example, only using a magnetic strip. There is no chip on it
Pavlovich:
basically, it never existed a priori. And the 101st and 501st cards are there, right? Well, with a one, starting with a five.
Carder:
Yes, only if they start with a five or a one. It doesn’t matter what numbers come after. And if we talk about chipped cards, their service code starts with a two, but most often with a two. That is, 226, 206, 256, 201, it doesn’t matter. This means that the card has a chip. Initially, the bank put a chip on it so that card transactions were made only by the chip, not by the magnetic strip, or by contactless payment, right? That is, contactless payment and a chip are, roughly speaking, synonyms, they are interconnected.
The same thing, yes. The same thing.
What do you do with the cards?
Pavlovich:
Having a PIN, let's say, we have no problems, in principle, with them at an ATM, well, or somewhere with minor problems, but with them more. But the majority of cybercriminals, both in my time and now, they do not have a PIN code, because with a PIN code any fool can get money from the card, so to speak. You have a cloned card of some American Rockefeller, an American rich Pinocchio, but there is no PIN code.
What do you do with it in today's reality?
Carder:
Well, you know, I remember a chapter, or, roughly speaking, an excerpt from your book, where you described a story about how you came across the so-called Visa Infinity card. Visa Infinity, I don’t know what kind of service it was.
Pavlovich:
It’s Infinity, infinity.
Carder:
Infinity, okay. Infinite, which means infinite in translation. It’s the highest-ranking card in the Visa system. It gives you a bunch of privileges and, of course, a certain credit limit. Yes, a very large credit limit.
Pavlovich:
High.
Carder:
Yes, high. As they say, spend as you want and where you want. Here, it’s like you never ran out. Yes, you spent, spent and couldn’t spend it. In fact, now, if you take the same Visa Infinity of an American bank, of some person, there are a lot of them, in principle, in the Darknet, so to speak. There are a lot of them, but if we take and write it down on plastic, and we don’t have a PIN, then, probably, we can only go shopping with it, go to stores.
Shopping implies the same payment by bank cards only in POS terminals, in terminals that are now located at almost every retail outlet. Accordingly, if you have a Visa Infinity, the ideal option, it is without a chip.
With this card you can make almost unlimited transactions using the magnetic strip. But, of course, many banks understand that Visa Infinity is a card that is really very popular, like, say, really rich and very powerful people. And the bank, firstly, will be upset to lose the money that is on it, no matter whether it is credit money or the card owner's money, and, of course, it will also be very upsetting to lose such a client.
And initially, probably, I don't know, I can just guess from experience and statistics that I checked, initially restrictions are imposed on this card. That is, most often you cannot spend money on it outside your region. Region log, first of all, is imposed. Let's say if it has region lock, I will try to pay and there will be a refusal, or the so-called code 0.5, a refusal without explanation, just a refusal from the bank that issued the card.
If, for example, there is no region lock, yes, let's say, if you decide to go buy a TV, yes, or a bunch of MacBooks for half a million rubles, yes, or a million rubles, most likely you will get a response from the bank in the form of, well, or 0.5, yes, that is, a refusal without explanation, because, most likely, a person with such a card in some other region, well, without warning the bank in advance will not spend huge amounts.
This is stupid, because the person has just arrived in Russia, let's say, and immediately the first transaction will be for millions of rubles. This is very stupid. Most likely, the bank will consider such a transaction suspicious and will temporarily block the card and call the owner, ask if you are really in Russia or not. Or, if, sometimes banks have such a trick, if a person made a transaction, say, at a certain time, at 2 pm American time, to fly from America to Russia, there are about 12-13 hours by plane, the fastest way.
If less than this time has passed since the last transaction, less than 12 hours, and there will be a transaction in Russia for half a million rubles. Yes, for any amount. Yes, for any amount. Look, you physically cannot change the standard one. Yes, that's right. You will most likely receive three possible codes, either 04, or 41, or 43.
Both of these codes mean that the card is stolen and the cashier will often display it in large print on the screen, or the terminal will start beeping, making sounds, and take the card. That is, if you get such a code, it means that the cashier sees it, he is not a fool, it is written on the check, and take the card. This means that according to the instructions of the payment system, the cashier must confiscate your card, take it away, take it away, no matter what the methods are, and call the police, draw up a report on the confiscation of the card and, accordingly, send you along with the police to the department for proceedings, where did you get this card, yes, and in general whether it is yours or not.
Or just confiscate the card, and you can, in principle, she may not call the police, but she will call them later, she will still hand over the card to the police, yes, and she receives a reward for this, in many cases, 100 or 200 bucks for each card handed over, but still, as soon as the cashier receives the card, as a rule, a criminal case is opened.
That is, she took your card, you went about your business, it doesn’t matter, she swiped you, well, she took the cashier’s card, it’s not needed anyway, it’s not mine, especially since I didn’t get any money with it, but they’ll open a criminal case and they’ll look for you after that. And if, let’s say, everything is fine and there are no restrictions on this Visa Infinity, let’s say, this only happens if it’s some rare bank, and there haven’t been any fraudulent transactions on it before.
But it just opened, happily, and allows its clients to spend any amount, then, of course, it won’t run out. It simply won’t run out, you’ll spend it, and sooner or later the person will notice that money has disappeared from the card.
Pavlovich:
Or the bank will notice.
Carder:
The bank’s security service will notice, and that’s it, after that the spending will end.
Pavlovich:
And what about the daily limits?
Carder:
Honestly, I don't know, because the foreign issuer in Russia used to work well, now it works very poorly and often it turns out at best to withdraw, if the card is a credit card, say, 15% of the credit limit.
Pavlovich:
I had on the card, I don't know how much money, because in most cases you don't know it and you can't check the balance either, I had cases when the cards were American, they give 500 dollars a day, not a cent more, not a cent less. You can get 500 dollars a day, but sometimes the cards lasted 72 days. Imagine, you issue 500 dollars a day from one card. 72 days. And there were cases when there was a lot of money on the card, but you come the next day, when the daily limit should have been reached, you come, but it was already blocked.
That is, it varies, but on most American cards, I remember very well that in 2004 there was a daily limit of about $500 per day, most often on most cards.
Carder:
Well, I'll tell you more, I have American Express in my pocket now, which has been working for about 4 months, and I successfully go and buy buns at McDonald's every day for 1,500 rubles. Of course, it's not 500 bucks, but it has a limit of about 3,000 rubles, I don't remember exactly, and I spend 50 bucks a day with it. And, in principle, transactions are very different now in terms of their volume.
In general, now you can spend several times less on a card, a bank card, an American one, a Chinese one, it doesn't matter, a European one, than before. That is, before, how it was, yes, before, I don’t know, only I have a friend, yes, he’s been working there for almost 10 years, he’s been doing this, and he told me that, yes, there, you go to a store, some Yusa, yes, there, well, America, yes, you take it, write down about 20 pieces, yes, that’s called, a pack, why a pack, because it fits, well, 20 cards, a pack of 20 cards, that is, it fits in a cigarette pack, exactly 20 cards, so, you take a pack of Yusa, that is, America, and go to a store, roughly speaking, to buy yourself a TV for 100 thousand rubles, and one of these 20 cards will definitely give you a TV.
That is, in a day you could get approximately 5-6 thousand bucks, that’s your daily earnings. Now these figures vary per day, one, one and a half, maybe in rare cases you can get 2 thousand bucks. That is if, yes, you work there every day.
Pavlovich:
That's the ceiling, yes.
Carder:
That's, well, in my case, yes, that's the ceiling. In my case. I don't know how others do it, but if you work alone, yes, roughly speaking, and quite carefully, then yes, that's your ceiling.
Pavlovich:
With the card you're talking about now, do you withdraw money by chip or by magnet?
Carder:
I withdraw money by magnetic strip. This card has a 201 service code, that is, initially it, that is, it still exists with a chip, yes, That is, this American Express Corporate card, that is, it is a corporate card. And why does it work? Simply because this card is corporate, that is, it belongs to some enterprise, clearly no one has used it for a long time, it just lies around, exists, like many people have. Banks simply issue some credit cards, they just lie around.
And he doesn't notice the expenses on it, that is, no SMS messages come to anyone, it's a corporate card and the company, in general, it doesn't matter, some 50 bucks go from it every day, well, insignificant expenses.
Pavlovich:
In general, an unnoticeable flow of company expenses.
Carder:
Yes, yes, yes. I pay with it by strip, that is, I use the fallback mode by the chip, roughly speaking, I insert it three times and swipe it along the coin strip.
Pavlovich:
Two points. First. Do cashiers now pay attention, especially after your chip transaction fails, to the appearance of the card, because in my time, I see now there are no holograms, in my time there were holograms, there were globes on the master card, or a dove on the banknote.
Carder:
It seems to me that it has one on the back, no?
Pavlovich:
Yes, now on the back, and naturally, yes, you see, in my time it was on the front, but that's not the point. That is, do they pay attention to the hologram, to the clarity of the inscriptions, to the quality of the embossing, to the appearance of the card in general now?
Carder:
Listen, well, I'll tell you more, yes, in your free time, when, you know, you earned cash today, yes, during the day, and in the evening you just have nothing to do. You can joke around, take some salary card, say, JP Morgan of the American bank, yes, and write it down to some, I have a Cosmic there. There is an entertainment center called Cosmik, yes, and they have their own cards, yes, internal ones, which you pass through the machines.
You play Cosmik disco cards. And you take one, you write a dub on the magnetic strip. And on the back of the card it says that the Cosmik is a means of payment in the shopping center. Cosmik. Sounds cool. And you go to pay. You go to pay somewhere, I don’t know, a store, equipment, to get new headphones for yourself. Well, that’s it. And you give it to the cashier, or you take it yourself, just swipe it, and that’s it.
It’s somewhere like Cosmik. Well, not a brittle one, just a Cosmik card, right? That is, cashiers now absolutely don’t care what kind of card it is, because there are many banks now, and cashiers have forgotten what it means to check there, yes, by appearance, how to pick at something, some kind of security elements, microtexts, and so on. They don't care now, especially in big cities, where they often care whether you're paying for a purchase or not? Do you have money or not? Everyone is only interested in the money and the transaction went through - yeah, great.
If it didn't go through, let's say, yeah, a refusal. Well, maybe, yeah, she'll look, like, are you paying correctly, did you attach it? Why the refusal? They often don't understand why the refusal, yeah, and it's easier for them to restart the account, try again, than to check, yeah, what if it's not your card. No one really has the thought in their head that it's not your card, well, you really came in proper form, yeah, there, well, I mean, no way, I don't know, a ragamuffin, yeah, what's with that look, oh, there, they're going to spend money now, yeah.
Well, you came for headphones, for yours, with your card, yeah. In general, I think, well, you have some stolen credit cards in your pocket now, right?
Pavlovich:
No, I don't.
Carder:
Well, I don't have it either, when, when the cashier asks me such a question, yes, do you have your card there, I ask her, do you have stolen cards in your pocket? She says, no, of course not. I say, why should I have stolen cards in my pocket? Only my cards are in my pocket. Right? Right. That's why I always pay with my cards and the cashiers don't ask any questions. It happens that you take a pack, write down 20 different American cards and go to swipe them.
It happens that they are bad, old, pretty old, from an old database, let's say. Someone stole them a long time ago, took the information from the card, from a small strip, and they all give out the code "Remove stolen". And you swipe the first card, the cashier looks at "Remove stolen", try again, maybe there's some kind of glitch. You push it onto another card again, hoping that everything will be fine, but it says "Remove Stolen" again.
And you stand there, looking quite cheerful, and say, "What do you mean, "Remove Stolen"? My card, right? Let's run it again." The third time, bam - stolen from Yaid again. The card has already been lost from Yaid. The cashier gets nervous. "Don't be nervous, you stand there and continue to roll them in like this." Well, of course, it happens that the cashiers are really smart and understand that the card has indeed been stolen, and they may ask you to show them some passport or something else.
But, of course, they often stand there, smile, and don't understand what's going on. Of course, you understand everything too, but you pretend not to understand, and sooner or later you'll swing by some 20th card, and everything is approved. Everyone's happy, everyone leaves. The cashier sold the goods there, you received your purchase and left satisfied.
Pavlovich:
So you want to say that the quality of blanks is generally not high now?
Carder:
Yeah, well imagine, right? How did it all rise there before, right? I read in your book that you had a partner there, Bo, right? He had his own store there, where they, they had their own factory there. Well, Bo and Flint.
Pavlovich:
They had their own factories, yes, they produced cards. Then I bought very high quality ones from the Chinese.
Carder:
Well, and I often read that when they checked the card, someone was worried, but the Chinese made good quality, everything was fine. Imagine that they looked into a situation where they really caught you. They caught you, your card is counterfeit, the examination revealed that it is counterfeit, they come to search your home. And you have an embosser there, a big machine on which you print, squeeze out your initials, there, and the card number, there, some kind of paint
hotel, if you paint the cards there in different colors, put logos, all that, this is not only counterfeiting of bank cards, it is also there, I don’t know, vospityvat, khraniv. In general, all the articles that are on bank cards, they will attribute to you that you have a factory for the production of, damn, credit cards. I don’t know, but it’s very scary, right? And so, if you pay there with some cosmic, yes, it is not a means of payment at all. That is, what are you doing in fact? You are deceiving the cashier.
Pavlovich:
You will have fraud.
Carder:
Yes, fraud. You deceived, deceived the cashier, forced her to punch your headphones into you and release them to you as goods. That is, you deceived the cashier. You did not counterfeit the plastic, but you deceived the cashier.
Pavlovich:
But in general, according to the law, you counterfeited, because you put payment data from another bank card on the discount card.
Carder:
That's right, yes. If the examination really reveals, yes, what's there, well, they also have their own encoder, special services do the same, they look, compare, that if the information on the credit card does not match the information on the eject strip, accordingly, the card is counterfeit. But if, let's say, how do you do it? Imagine, of course, you swiped the card on the terminal, everything is fine with you, well, and you start doing this.
You see, the card works, yes, what do you start doing, you say, give me more, yes, give me more, and you can also, well, well, and, basically, you gradually buy there, yes, for some amount, well, a thousand, let's say, 60 rubles, yes, you bought, yes, there, and the last operation, when you last, something there, carried out some operation, you got, yes, there, 0.5, refusal, let's say, yes, or stolen seizure, of course, the cashier gets nervous, yes, calls someone, some services, well, what can you do, you have a counterfeit card, what to do with it, yes, if you and I have drugs, yes, and someone called the police, what does he do? He throws away the drugs, gets rid of the evidence.
You need to do the same. You take the card, I don't know, break it, eat it, gobble it up, cut it up, whatever. Well, accordingly, what happens? Cards, well, that's it, it's broken.
Pavlovich:
And if it's in the cashier's hands?
Carder:
That's a different situation. That's a different situation. That is, if we talk about, yes, cashiers and security guards, it doesn't matter, well, the first rule that you should remember for the rest of your life is that you never give, it doesn't matter whether it's your card, not your card, yes, it's counterfeit, not counterfeit, you never give your card to the cashier. Why? Previously, transactions were conducted using the magnetic strip of the card, and in order to conduct a transaction, you had to give your card to the cashier.
For what? So that he can carry out the transactions himself. The card is a bank card, it is not yours. It is not yours, it is, it is written on the back that it is the property of the bank. And when replacing this card, you are obliged to give your card to the bank, because it is the property of the bank. That is, you are obliged to give your card to the cashier, it is not yours. The cashier carries out transactions on it, carries it out, yes, and that's it.
And then he gives it to you, and you continue to use it. Now, when they introduced chip-on-pin technology, to exclude the possibility that the cashier is a fake or cooperates with a criminal group, and there, for example, as they most often do in America, they plant their people at gas stations, fake cashiers at gas stations, they swipe the reader, the encoder, take information from the magnetic strip of the card and spy on your PIN code.
And in fact, a cashier in Russia can do the same thing. He can look at his PIN code, then come up to you, rob you in the evening, take his card and go and withdraw money from it, right? And to eliminate this possibility, they started to put terminals next to you. That is, you go to the checkout and you have a terminal. Yes, to make the payment yourself. And, accordingly, you never give the card to the cashier.
Because it is your card, yes, your money is on it. Well, roughly speaking, let's give an example, yes, to pay for goods in cash. You do not give the cashier your wallet, you take out 100 rubles and give it to the cashier. It is the same here, it is your wallet on the card, your entire salary is there. And to pay, you should not give it to the cashier, you must make, well, the transaction yourself. It is your wallet. That's it. And that's the whole simplicity. That is, you never give the card to the cashier, accordingly, the cashier cannot have the card, well, and the security guard as well, it is only with you.
That is, not under any pretext, there, let me see, there, let me see, there, I'll see, I'll check, something else, you never know what she can do. She can stand there and have sex with you, there, well, for 10 minutes, yeah, there. Press the button. Everything is fine, yeah. Either press the button, or she'll take your card, let me see, yeah, just curious, cool card, yeah. She'll throw it to herself, there, somewhere, there, yeah, in the glove compartment and then talk to you, continue, and she'll call security. That's all. The main thing is to never give your card to cashiers.
Pavlovich:
Accordingly, what do you shop with? With discount cards, that is, do you record the dump of someone else's card on discount cards or on what?
Carder:
Look, in fact, of course, when you shop, roughly speaking, you work every day, that is, you get up every day, go to the store every day and buy something every day. It's all a very, so to speak, really difficult process. That is, I heard in many interviews, I said that carding and generally fraud in the sphere of high chinologies, crusades, this is an occupation, of course, earning money, it is quite fast, but not easy.
And so that cashiers are not especially scared, not especially surprised that you, I don't know, in Washington pay with a card from a gas station, roughly speaking, a fuel card, you must correspond as much as possible to the fact that you really have a bank card.
Prepaid cards, working with them.
Carder:
The so-called prepaid cards are best suited for this. Visa cards or prepaid master cards. They can be easily obtained at any bank branch. They are most often hanging right on the counter.
You can come up to them, take any number, any design, some gifts.
Pavlovich:
They don't have a last name.
Carder:
They don't have a last name. So what's good about prepaid cards? You don't open a bank account. So you can take, say, this card, put money on it at an ATM and give it to someone as a gift. These are gift cards, roughly speaking. And a person can pay with them anywhere. This is a gift, yes, there are gift cards for stores, there's Rendezvous, it doesn't matter, there's NVIDIA, but you can also give a universal gift card, where you can pay for everything, for all services, where regular bank cards are accepted.
And, in general, so that you don’t have to counterfeit the plastic at home, and not sit there with such huge machines, yes, you can, in principle, take real plastic from the bank’s surprise, which was made by the bank, as if it were official, everything is fine with it, yes, and then rewrite it, use it for your own, there, machinations, yes, there, use it, pay them and so on.
Pavlovich:
But you, okay, the last name is not on the track, but your numbers on the card will not match if you rewrote the numbers on the check that comes out.
Carder:
Yes, I also wanted to say about this, that the information on the magnetic strip of the card is included in the first, second and third tracks. The first line contains information about the card, name, last name. And the second line is the same, only in a more compressed form and without the first and last name. For a transaction in Russia, only the second track is needed.
On the second track, that is, the second track, the first and last name are not included, the bank equivalencies are simply indicated there. Accordingly, when you write down the plastic and when you pay with it, neither the first nor the last name appears on the check, nothing appears.
Pavlovich:
It used to appear.
Carder:
Now? That is, you just erase the first track and that's it. That is, you just don't record it, you record only the second track and that's it. That is, you record only the second track and everything works fine. That is, you want...
Pavlovich:
To say that I remember specifically that for ATMs only the second track is enough, but for stores for some reason we always, I don't know, maybe by the way we also did it in vain, that is, for stores we always recorded track one, where I have the last name.
Carder:
Yes, I know that they did it before, they used to do it themselves, for example, if you found it somewhere on the dorognet, yes, only the second track, yes, without the first, you wrote it yourself, you came up with it yourself, there, first name, last name, there, added the missing zeros there, so to speak, yes, so that everything corresponds to the standards of payment systems, that's it. But in America, I will say this, there is a lot of fraud in America, and therefore in America the first track is required on the card. And without the first track, no transactions will be carried out there.
In Russia, the first track is not needed. You don’t need to bother with coming up with a first and last name, you can simply erase them, and nothing will be displayed on the receipt at all. That’s it, it’s very simple.
Pavlovich:
But the card number will be displayed.
Carder:
The card number is all correct, but the expiration date will not be displayed. The last 4 digits will be displayed on the receipt. The last 4 digits of the card are displayed on the receipt after the purchase.
Pavlovich:
In rare cases.
Carder:
In the first 6 digits. This is the so-called BIN. Therefore, the BIN can be found in the first 6 digits of the card number, you can find out the bank that issued this card. And the last 4 digits on the card, in general, have never been anything specific for cashiers, they just don’t check them. They don’t know what needs to be checked, they don’t know what signatures need to be checked. Most often, a person asks to sign and that’s it. Or, you know, in rare cases, if they think you're suspicious, they'll say, excuse me, but can we check your signature, you just signed the check, your signature with the signature in your passport? Like, well, of course you can, there.
They'll be the same. I signed my signature, check it with the signature in my passport. In fact, they have to check the signature on the card with the signature on the check.
Pavlovich:
Well, that's if it's there, you see.
Carder:
Yes, but it happens that... No, in general, when I received a Sberbank card in person, yes, a bank employee checked it all. That is, he directly said, sign the card in front of me. Here are three cards.
Pavlovich:
I received this one a month ago. They're all unsigned, right? My old one, according to Exparte, well, it expired, no signature. But in general... Alfa, nine cards from Alfa, no signature. They brought a fresh Tinkoff to my home, no signature either.
Carder:
I can tell you briefly what a signature is for. I mean, imagine you hide someone's card, yes, a real card, plastic, right? And it will have that person's signature on it, right? Accordingly, if you are asked to sign the receipt after a purchase, you sign with your signature, right? And the cashier compares your signature and the signature on the card. And the signature on the card is not yours, i.e. the card is not yours either. That's all. Well, i.e. you will use a stolen card.
Pavlovich:
Well, it's been a security measure since ancient times.
Carder:
Instead of a PIN code. Instead of a PIN code. And now a PIN code. I mean, it's very difficult to steal a PIN code.
Pavlovich:
Good. I mean, you write down, it turns out, dumps of other people's cards on these prepaid cards, on gift cards, yes, on prepaid ones.
Carder:
And I go shopping with them.
Pavlovich:
Okay, I get it. Dumps. Where are you now, your gang or you alone, where do you get card dumps?
Carder:
In general, for a person to start some of his own actions in real carding, everything is quite simple. You need to find some forum that is on the topic of real carding or on carding in general. And on these forums there are...
Pavlovich:
There are 30 of these forums.
Carder:
Yes, a lot. Now there are a lot of them. And often many of them are a scam, but there are a couple of good forums that have advertisements of stores that sell information from bank cards. It does not matter whether this information is just a card number with an ECV code, or it is, in my opinion, a valuable dump from the magnetic strip of the card. And, in fact, you can just go to this store, deposit 100 bucks there using bitcoins and buy about 10 American cards, 10 dumps, 10 tracks, write them to prepaid, as I do, and go shopping in any store in your country.
But the likelihood that an American dump will work in your country is now very low, because, as you yourself said in your book, and in general at that time America was very much hammered about this particular fraud.
That is, in America, everyone used bank cards in America, because this system appeared in America first, there were the most of them, accordingly, the most money. And everyone withdrew money in different countries from American cards. Therefore, now the Americans have greatly limited this function in other countries. That is, it is often almost impossible to withdraw money from an American card now, or in rare cases it is possible and in good volumes.
What is the percentage of valid cards, how much can you withdraw from one, how much do dumps cost?
Pavlovich:
Well, how many cards out of 20, I’ll take at least one, Americans….
Carder:
Well, if we talk about a region of Russia, then you will withdraw 16 cards here, God willing, you will get working 5 cards, but then you will be able to withdraw from them a maximum of about 20-30 thousand rubles.
Pavlovich:
From all of them?
Carder:
No, from one.
Pavlovich:
Well, the same 500 dollars.
Carder:
If, let's say, there is a lawyer's debit of 10 thousand dollars on it, you will be able to withdraw only 500, let's say.
Pavlovich:
Okay, then how much does an American dump cost now?
Carder:
The average cost of an American dump, a good dump, and not some kind of dump that has already been used by someone or something like that. A fresh dump that has just arrived in the store costs about 10-40-50 bucks, if we are talking about America. If we are talking about Europe, then it is 30-60 bucks.
If we are talking about Asian countries and exotic countries, exotic countries, there are up to 150 bucks in some stores.
Pavlovich:
Does the dump price depend on the type of Gold card, for example, Classic, Infinite, Signature?
Carder:
Most often, the classics are the cheapest, including the classics, Visa, for example, Electron, also the simplest card, which stores very little money, this card is issued to people who have just started using the bank's services.
Pavlovich:
But you can only pay with Electron on the Internet?
Carder:
In real life, you can't? No, you can. Electron, yes, it allows you to pay on the Internet. In real life, I have, for example, a card "Collecting Electron", Visa "Electron". Yes, it has a daily limit of 30 thousand rubles, 500 bucks.
Pavlovich:
Well, I have 30 thousand rubles on the classic. I do not have a daily limit, I have a limit for one transaction, that is, if I transfer you from Sber through a mobile application, then 30 thousand for one transaction.
Carder:
Well, let's say so, yes.
Pavlovich:
But how can I make so many of them, I don’t even know how many, but for one transaction 30 thousand.
Carder:
Yes, then there are Gold Premier, then Platinum, Infinity, MasterCard World, World Elite, Amex Centurion.
Pavlovich:
By the way, I have a Centurion tattooed on my shoulder, few people know. Can you see it?
Carder:
Interesting fact, yes.
Pavlovich:
This is exactly the American Express Centurion, this is the most expensive American Express card. And it says American Express at the bottom. You know, right? You are such a mouse. So this is, you know, like a reminder of youth. Someone has it tattooed for the Airborne Forces, someone has a thief, I have this American Express, so it’s easier to see.
Dumps of which cards work best now?
Pavlovich:
Dumps of which countries work best then?
Carder:
In Russia? Yes, it varies greatly around the world, but in Russia the best performing countries now are exotic countries like Puerto Rico, Costa Rico, Guatemala has such a country, Krenedat and China, Japan, Turkey occasionally.
Pavlovich:
Australia, New Zealand?
Carder:
Australia works with small transactions, gives a very long time, and in New Zealand, honestly, it is rare. It happens that Europe, England, France also have several banks. But, as a rule, Europe, it is all already, also a trend, it gets there very quickly. In Europe, all 201, that is, all cards with chips, they are very limited by region, so it is difficult there. In America, they have half, less than half of the 101 cards without a chip and more than half of the 201 with a chip.
And in America they are not trying very hard to switch to a chip, they have a lot of ATMs there that do not yet accept chips, a lot of terminals that are not related to chip readers, in many states almost all are like that. And they are in no hurry to change their technologies. In all exotic countries, most of them are 201. Well, in China, yes, in China, in Japan, there are still 101 cards and, as a rule, you can withdraw about 100-200 thousand per check, that is, per transaction.
One transaction can basically make 3-4 thousand bucks there.
Pavlovich:
Does a Japanese card work several times?
Carder:
Yes, as a rule, Japanese and Chinese cards work from one to four times, maybe up to five. It happens that up to forty thousand rubles work there, but not until it runs out. Until the daily limit runs out. It can work. It worked for me there, sometimes, for three, four days during that time. Japanese? Yes, Japanese. It costs about 500 thousand rubles with it.
Pavlovich:
And Israel?
Carder:
Israel? There are few of them. Often the service code there is 521 or 506, honestly I don’t remember, I think 506 even happens, they roll along the strip, but they are rare, and the Israeli price is low, they monitor this very closely there, and literally in 5 minutes your card gets into the stolen Z.
Pavlovich:
And Switzerland?
Carder:
Switzerland does not work, well, it works very well, maybe one bank works, out of 100 banks in Switzerland, one works, but it is difficult to find such cards. Austria recently worked, I tried. Austrian bank. Visa Austria works. Rare banks work, which rarely came across in these stores where you can buy information from bank cards. They have not had time to wear them out yet.
Pavlovich:
Which have not been jerked off, frankly speaking, a little roughly, which have not been jerked off. Look, the price of dumps, I see, has not changed much since my time. What volumes get, what volumes of dumps get into stores? So tomorrow I need, let's say, thousands of pieces, there, the first hundred, for example, from different countries.
Carder:
I don’t know why you need the first hundred thousand pieces, really, but I don’t know, maybe you’ll resell them, right? Well, you’re unlikely to roll over thousands of pieces, and, generally speaking, that’s it, and you don’t make purchases, but yes, there really are large volumes there, in some stores there are updates every day and they upload about 400, well, 400-500 cards a day. That’s how it is. They steal 450 cards regularly in the world, just imagine, in one store.
Around the world, about a million cards are stolen per day, roughly speaking, information, about a million cards.
Pavlovich:
I find it hard to believe a million, that’s a very large number.
Carder:
Well, yes, I don’t know about the world, I just assumed that. Quite large numbers.
Pavlovich:
These stores, they are on the Darknet, right?
Carder:
Yes, I’ll say this, on forums. On thematic forums, I said, they are, yes. And not only that, well, what is the Darknet, right? It's just the Internet dedicated to thematic ones. On the dark side. Yes, on the dark side. These are regular sites, with domains, roughly speaking, .Com, .Cc, .Pv, various domains belonging to non-Russian countries, so that these sites don't block them.
Or there are some in the tor, also having domains in the tor, .Onion.
About hackers: who gets dumps and how?
Pavlovich:
Where do dumps of stolen bank cards get to these stores?
Carder:
Most often, this happens by infecting a POS terminal with a virus. That is, in general, in Russia and other countries, how do terminals work? They are connected to a computer. If the terminal is connected via a computer wire, it encrypts. That is, all the information that is read from the card is encrypted and transmitted to the POS terminal.
To a computer, to such a monoblock, for example, it is encrypted. If the reader is a magnetic strip or a chip, it is already built into the terminal itself, there are such terminals, built-in, then the information is not encrypted there, it just gets into the computer's RAM, and these viruses, they are, in general, configured for Windows, and they simply scan the processes in the RAM and pull out dumps from there.
And transfers them over the Internet to the owner of this virus. And then all this is parsed, sorted, and a selection of countries is obtained. China, Japan. If, for example, this is some cafe located on the coast of America, it is clear that there are a lot of tourists there. And there, as they say, is the fattest material. That is, tourists, they most often have the region-log removed, restrictions by region.
And you can safely use their cards in Russia. In general, this is one of the main methods, because it is the most large-scale, because it is a virus, no physical interaction with terminals or with the bank is required. A very large volume of data goes to you. Or, if you, roughly speaking, work in Russia and put your man at a Gazprom gas station, he reads the cards using a reader, remembers the PIN code and this will also be material, say, for work.
Dump and PIN code, let's say. Or you can use skimmers, a skimmer on an ATM. You will again receive a PIN code and you will be able to see it using the camera on the ATM.
Using the camera on the ATM, the PIN code and using the skimmer built into the leader ATM, you will be able to get a dump from my thick card.
Pavlovich:
I had more than 200 million cards in my case and all of them were obtained mainly in this way. Which one? Hackers hacked hotel chains, restaurant chains, hacked store chains, very large retail chain stores in the US, and that was only 200 million cards.
It is clear that it was impossible to process such a quantity yourself, and they were sold, because every day from your database with dumps a large part dies, well, not a large part, but a certain part dies by the expiration date, accordingly we sold them at bargain prices simply so that you would rather sell there for 2 dollars or 5 than tomorrow it dies by the expiration date.
But this was done by top hackers, one of them is Vladimir Drinkman, nicknamed Scorpio, he is serving a 12-year sentence in the US, the other is Psycho Seleznev, his father is a deputy from the LDPR, he is serving a 27-year sentence in the US, because he did not have enough brains to somehow agree with the investigation to go on the spot, he thought his dad would get him out here through political channels, but it is impossible to get a cybercriminal out in the US, no matter who you are. Probably, if only he was Putin's son, yes, they probably already discussed it among themselves and came to an agreement.
But these are top-level hackers, that is, they know what to hack. How do today's hackers even find where the cards are, how to infect.
Carder:
Listen, but top hackers back then, perhaps, hacked huge databases, local networks of different banks and organizations. But now there is such a site as Shodan, such a system as Shodan.
Pavlovich:
I know, it's the Internet of Things.
Carder:
Yes, yes, yes. It basically concentrates the IP addresses of computers that have open ports.
Pavlovich:
Well, there are cash registers connected, factories.
Carder:
Open access ports so that you can use this computer, connect to it remotely.
Pavlovich:
Do you connect via VNC?
Carder:
Either via VNC protocol, or via RDP protocol, or via SSH protocol, you can use a tunnel. You can use different protocols, which, let's say, are open, which have different vulnerabilities. Yes, Windows, let's say, yes, and somehow bypass, let's say, because most often you connect via protocol, yes, and what do you encounter? You encounter authorization, logins and passwords. Yes, just login, login to Windows.
But no, of course, they set stronger passwords there, and you have to bypass this authorization system somehow, by detecting Windows, there, XP, let's say, or Windows Vista, well, and this, in general, is all easily bypassed.
Pavlovich:
What Windows is installed in POS terminals?
Carder:
Most often, like on ATMs, Windows XP is installed, or Windows Vista, or some Windows XP Professional. Well, some service packs are installed, most often, which are configured specifically for the activities of financial systems.
Pavlovich:
Well, that is, not the last one, not the 8th, not the 10th, right?
Carder:
No, no, of course not. Because POS terminals have rather weak hardware. And weak hardware requires an old platform system. Well, an old one, to support it.
Pavlovich:
That is, you find it through Shodan, yes, and then you break the technology there.
Carder:
Yes, yes, yes. It's all done very conveniently now. Yes, there may not have been such services before, but now it's one of those where you can search for open access to computers, and with this help infect them and get payment card data from there.
Pavlovich:
By what signs, from the many devices that Shodan finds with an open, say, VNC port, do you determine that it is a POS terminal?
Carder:
In fact, you can simply enter some default names in the search, standard terminal names, computer name, MAC addresses, include the word POST terminal, or quickly run through the sites that produce such POS terminals, hybrid ones, to which a direct
leader is connected, which is inserted with a card, and try with a key, say, the so-called gross, just pick a suitable name and find a suitable computer.
Pavlovich:
When was the last time you bought something with a counterfeit credit card?
Carder:
Probably something big, right?
Pavlovich:
It doesn't matter, any.
Carder:
The last time I bought, I think, was an Apple Watch. Apple Watch, something new, I literally got it a week ago, well, it's one of those cool purchases, it's just a trend for me, I get a new Watch every year, and specifically with a credit card, well, an American one, it doesn't matter, it's, you know, a sign that, yes, it still works, it still works, well, they cost an average transaction, yeah, there, about 800 bucks, there, 40 thousand rubles, well, they cost 34 thousand now, yeah, but it's a nice little thing, just waved and took it, went.
Pavlovich:
And what was the most expensive purchase you made with a fake credit card?
Carder:
The most expensive was... I bought myself a jacket. An Armani jacket. True, I couldn't stuff it... Then I kind of made two different receipts. One was for 40 thousand rubles, the other 30. Well, it came out to only 70 thousand rubles.
Pavlovich:
So in two loans, right?
Carder:
Yes, yes. Well, or... Wait, I'll remember now. It was there, like, two months ago. I think it was with one. There were just two transactions. Two transactions.
Pavlovich:
And the transaction limit?
Carder:
No, I was just afraid that, as a rule, if you exceed the permissible withdrawal limit in another country, in another region, then it gets into the podcast, well, just 0.5, and calls the person, the owner of the card. But I was afraid, I made a low transaction to make sure I bought it. I really wanted to.
How do you check dumps?
Pavlovich:
How do you check dumps now before shopping, so that there is no surprise in the store that you come and they knock out some code for a four, confiscate there, detain?
Carder:
Yes, yes, yes. Previously, yes, they checked, the so-called check, they carried out, yes, there, I don’t know, or there is simply a special service, a checker, a checker, yes, the so-called, on the Internet, you just enter the card details, there, the number, the CV code and the expiration date and that’s it. And you check, is there 1 buck, let’s say 2 bucks, it doesn’t matter. You simply withdraw a small amount. You test, is it working or not. Now there are such checkers, very, so to speak, advanced, you can withdraw 0 bucks. That is, 0.0 bucks authorization.
Well, that is, zero authorization. It is not displayed in your personal account, anywhere. That is, indeed, I simply tried zero authorization on my card, no SMS, nothing comes. That is, it simply checks whether the card is working or not, it is very convenient.
Pavlovich:
But it’s like all sorts of Ubers, when you link the application.
Carder:
Yes, roughly speaking, yes. But there are now special services for this. For example, some kind of checker. You go to the site, enter the data and that's it. It is already engaged in some other services, where it tries all this. But most often, of course, cards are not checked for one reason. Because we talked with you that it happens that the bank checks whether it is physically possible to fly, say, from America to Russia.
Have you checked the card somewhere in some service?
Pavlovich:
But the service will be electronic,
Carder:
This is not a physical transaction. As a rule, it happens in the service that they carry out authorization on the territory of America, for example. Most often this happens, but for some reason it happens that the cards die because you check them. Why does this happen? Maybe these services just use real POS terminals of hotels, just try some manual input, I don't know, honestly, but it happens, it happens very often.
Or you can check before going, for example, at McDonald's. You go, buy a bun for 50 rubles, it works great, go further, spend there to buy yourself an iPhone or a TV, roughly speaking. And in principle, it is not difficult, just check its magic and abilities. That is, yes, again, so that you do not have to stand 20 pieces in America and not roll them at the checkout, choose 5 working ones, it is easier to go to McDonald's, roll this pack, buy yourself 5 buns, 5 working cards and go further, having found working cards in the store.
Do you card via Apple Pay, Google Pay?
Pavlovich:
And what prevents you from linking the card to your phone and paying via Apple Pay or Google Pay, for example?
Carder:
As soon as Google Pay technology appeared, Apple Pay, contactless payment by third-party payment methods, phone, watch, it does not matter, all this, of course, was done, but very quickly they got the trick and began to block.
Or verify by entering data into your cards, the service authorizes you for 28 rubles, and a window opens, asking you to write, write for what amount we have authorized you now.
Pavlovich:
When you link your card to Apple Pay, for example?
Carder:
Yes, or to some other service, this is one of the verification systems, or it will ask for some authorization code that they sent you to the phone that the card is linked to, well, something like that. They will use any verification systems that will prove whether you really use this card or not. There are, I read articles where they tried to link and successfully linked foreign cards to Apple Pay, but then it blocks your iPhone, if you pay with an iPhone, Apple blocks your iPhone by Apple ID and that's it, it doesn't work anymore.
Either there, well, in general, it is either difficult to do or completely up to now honestly I have not tried it myself so that the system would receive a CIC on workers, yes, but I very often came across such additional checks from apple pay and either google pay it does not matter any payment instruments they are most often.
Pavlovich:
They arrange checks. And do you need a PIN code when paying via phone, via Apple Pay?
Carder:
Look, Samsung, they made a very interesting system. They thought through the fact that not all terminals support contactless payment now, especially in America. They added the MST system, in fact, as Magnetic Stripe Transmission, that is, in a small phone in Samsung, a magnetic stripe simulator is built in, that is, a small antenna that imitates a magnetic strip on a real card.
And if, for example, the signal does not support the contactless payment method, you can put your phone to the reader on the signal, and you can successfully make a payment. This all happens because the Samsung Pay system uses its own card that it issued, without a chip. It's as if you just swipe your regular card without a chip on the card reader.
And everything goes smoothly without a PIN code. Or if you use the usual method, that is, contactless payment Apple Pay. I very often heard such a concept as at the checkout, there, for example, they say, like, I have an operation by finger, you know, by finger, that is, to scan a fingerprint instead of a PIN code. A PIN code is not needed, a fingerprint is needed. You either enter the PIN code, which is there Google Pay, enter 4 digits on the phone, or a fingerprint on Apple Pay, or on Samsung Pay.
Or by Face ID. Yes, or Face ID confirms that you are the one paying, the cardholder, its owner.
How many carders do you know who are engaged in real carding?
Pavlovich:
How many other real carders like you do you know now, who work in the CIS countries?
Carder:
If in the CIS countries, not personally, but in forms, there can be 3-4 people. In general, on average, it seems to me, if we talk about large cities, about Moscow, then there can be 2 carders for every million people. True, this is a very rare phenomenon now, because even when we discussed the topic, you said, well, the topic seems to have died, kicked the bucket, it is impossible to do anything with it now and cash it out.
But this is not so, because many people, when they enter this topic now in our time, nothing works out for them, because there are very big restrictions, they just leave there, they do not have enough persistence. If you try many different cards, then you will obviously find some working one, a working bank, a working country and you will, in principle, have money in it. And, as they say, you do not need to think here, you just need to go and try, and that's it.
You take 20 different cards, go and try them, one of them will definitely work.
What are the risks?
Pavlovich:
Like arbitrageurs, yes, find a working combination, also a combination, bank, country, well, yes. That kind of thing. The risks for this whole thing, that is, I sat for more than 10 years for this.
Carder:
So, well, if we talk about Russia, yes, as I said before, now in principle, yes, cashiers do not pay due attention to this, and often due to their negligence, very large-scale fraud occurs in this area. These are quite difficult to prove, yes, crimes according to statistics, there, 80% of these crimes, yes, they, well, either are not proven, or are proven, but a sincere confession.
That is, well, how is it, a policeman comes up to you, yeah, well, you, roughly speaking, just started doing these first week, he comes up, they tell you, well, well, guy, yeah, there, well, like you were detained at the checkout, the cashier detained you, he comes up, they say, you didn’t pay with anything, you write with your card. They say, your card? Well, yeah, mine. They say, well, yours was stolen from the network. It’s not your card. Well, like, it’s clear that it’s not your card, right? You’d better confess to everything now. And we’ll, in principle, write you a suspended sentence, right? Well, it’s an economic crime, right? The sentences there aren’t particularly long, yeah, and so on. Well, we’ll write you a suspended sentence, you’ll just write cordially on the plus sign too, yeah, there, plus a star on your shoulder straps, and you’ll get a plus there, I don’t know, that you’ll just have a suspended sentence.
Well, that’s how it all gets revealed most often. Or, yes, as it is now, well, they used to do it before, yes, they used drops, yes, the so-called ones. There is one in your book too, you said that he did badly there, yes, he could have been burned because of this. Well, as a rule, a drop too. They will catch him, yes, and it is very easy to make the drop turn you in and based on the testimony of your drop they will come to your home, yes, God forbid they find counterfeit cards there, yes, credit cards.
Well, that's it, you are the organizer. He will say, yes, he forced me, I didn't know that they were counterfeit, he forced me to go to the store with them to pay. I paid with them, yes, and because of this I was caught. I am not guilty of anything, I didn't know that they were counterfeit, I didn't want to deceive anyone and so on.
Pavlovich:
So it is safer to work on your own?
Carder:
It is safer, of course, in any system, in any scheme. Nobody knows anything, only you know and only you give all the testimony. And, basically, to make it so that... Well, it's like poker, you know. Like poker, right? You won't... Well, I mean, a policeman is your opponent. You won't show him all your cards, you'll play fair with him. I mean, policemen have their own job, you can use Article 51 of the Constitution there, that is, not testify against yourself and your loved ones.
And, basically, you don’t say anything, well, you were caught with this card, let’s say, a counterfeit one, right? You, well, I don’t know, broke it, ate it, yeah, and that’s it. I mean, what are they going to do with it, right? You don’t have a counterfeit card. The transaction went through, roughly speaking, you bought something, showed the cashier that it wasn’t yours, he detained you, you went to the department, you broke the card or threw it away, I don’t know, somewhere unnoticed. You’re at the department, the card is gone, they think, how are we going to open a criminal case?
I mean, some numbers, some foreign bank, some money went to someone, nothing is clear. They ask, what did you pay with? I’ll say, well, I paid with something. They say, well, what did you pay with? Well, what did you pay with, yeah. Well, we can talk like that for a long time, they’ll never understand, there, yeah, what went where. Making a request to a foreign bank is also very difficult, especially since no one will make money there from some, roughly speaking, 15 thousand rubles, yes.
Pavlovich:
They will make a request to your kidneys a couple of times.
Carder:
Yes, a couple of times to your kidneys, if you confess, it will be good, if not, then they will let you go. If you confess, it will be good and in general, if everything will be bad in the worst case, then Article 187 is counterfeiting of means of payment and now they have slightly expanded even for counterfeiting Apple Pay, here the article of the decision of freedom follows up to 60 years here
A, let's say, if they did not prove that you counterfeited the card, in the case of one cosmic card, they did not consider it a counterfeit, all this was not considered significant evidence, they will say that you fraudulently took possession of some goods, stole it from the store. Well, 159 is the first or the 2nd, 3rd, it depends on the amount of damage. They can, if you, I don’t know, someone else knew about it, it doesn’t matter, your friend, let’s say, was nearby, they can easily make a group of people.
The friend will say, yes, I didn’t know. They will say, yes, you will prove that you didn’t know. Well, and there will already be a group of people. That is, in principle, if they want to close you down, they will close you down.
How many times have you been caught?
Pavlovich:
How many times have you been caught?
Carder:
Caught? So, to end up in the police station? Pavlovich: In all sorts of ways. Carder: Zero. Pavlovich: And not to end up in some kind of awkward situations in your career at all? Carder: Not to end up in? In the sense? Pavlovich: Well, I mean, have you ever ended up in some kind of awkward situations, situations when it was just one step away from calling the police and your failure? Carder: Yes, it was, you know, I was standing at the checkout, I was standing at the checkout, buying something in an electronics store, and basically I was buying, I think I was buying, what were they called, gift cards from Sony Playstation, these games that, yes, gift certificates from Sony Playstation.
I bought, I think, for the amount of small transactions, 5 thousand rubles for 40 and 50 thousand rubles and in general I am standing there in my briefcase next to me there is an encoder, I did not have a car then, there is an encoder, I have about 10 fake plastic cards there that I have not yet rolled over, about 10 fake plastic cards, I am standing there, the cashier makes a call on the phone, she says there, well, something there, she looks at me like that, then says something into the receiver, I do not hear, yes, but I understand that something is wrong, that something is wrong And she says there, yes, do not count it there anymore, yes, I hear these words, my heart starts beating wildly, I do not understand what to do, yes, if I leave now, yes, well, just there, leave for no reason, it will be, well, somehow very strange to look, yes, and that is a shopping center there, well, you never know, there, they'll call security, they'll hold me down, something else, I'm just standing there, yeah, well, with this look, I say, well, you have some problems, maybe I should give you some cash, yeah, or something else, and she says, well, security just called me, why are you there, well, I paid with a fullback, why are you tripling the cards three times?
She says, well, I know what you're doing. You know, I can call security right now, yeah, and that's it. Well, I look at her, smile, I say, I don't understand what you're talking about, everything seems to be working for me. Well, I take what I bought and just leave. Well, for me then it was probably something very, very shocking, yes, that could only happen to me because, well, then, indeed, they could accept me, and specifically, and, in general, yes,
I had an encoder, with the help of which they could even take me for examination right in the department, just conduct it, understand that they are fake, and, in principle, that's it.
How long have you been doing this?
Pavlovich:
And how many years in total have you been doing this?
Carder:
In total, yes, well, about 2000 years. If so, so that, yes, something was already working out, yes, then let's take 2016. 2016, because then I knew a lot of theories, I still hadn't gotten around to practice. It turns out that now it's 2019, three years have passed and now I'm 18 years old, then I was 15.5. And, well, imagine, a 15.5-year-old boy, a teenager, walks around, buys something.
It’s clear that it looks very stupid, and if you go there to buy yourself some large purchase, well, I don’t know, if in big cities it’s normal, then in my city, where I live and was born, it will look pretty strange. Firstly, it’s scary, you don’t know how to do anything, it was the first time you did all this, but gradually, you know, the friendly hands syndrome, when you approach, your heart beats, you understand that you will now pay with the wrong card,
God forbid the cashier catches you doing this somehow and you can go to jail for it, it's really scary, but you know, if you've gotten over this "squeezing backpack" syndrome and things have started to work out for you, then you've become a carder, if not, then you'll go to jail.
Pavlovich:
But I want to say that I've always felt scary when I paid with someone else's credit card, I've always had situations where my card was confiscated, but I managed to get away with it. Well, right by the code it was stolen, you know, confiscate the card, detain the owner, that is, I managed to get away with it. Yes, I don't know if my dad's card is still there, but it was kept by the cashier, of course. And you're also on the cameras in the store. Well, it's a bit of a scary occupation.
And, as it turns out now, it's not that profitable.
How much longer will you do this, what will make you quit?
Pavlovich:
Okay, and how much longer will you continue to do this and what will make you quit?
Carder:
Well, actually, about the last six months, maybe a little more, I think, in good cases it really comes out to about a million rubles a month, on average about 500-600 thousand rubles a month. And I wonder, is this the money for which it is then worth serving, like you, 10 years of your life.
If you calculate it like that, divide these millions a month by these never, which you will serve for nothing, then these are some sad sums. And are those emotions, the risk that you take for the sake of these sums, which in fact are not that big, worth it. Yes, for you, for a person who was born somewhere in a provincial town, who has not seen life, these are really huge sums.
A million rubles, where can you spend it, it would seem, yes, as Sergey Popov said, that's right, you seem to live like an ordinary person, you eat, well, perhaps more expensively than others, you take a taxi, there, more expensively than others, well, this money goes away very quickly. And, probably, I would think about investing what I managed to earn, some amounts, it is clear that I invested something, yes, even for the same lawyer, yes, for a rainy day, so to speak, invest somewhere in the right direction, in which the turnover will really be several times greater.
I heard that many coffee shops in Moscow, other businesses, they get monthly turnover, under 70 million rubles monthly turnover. Of which net profit is 5, 6, 7, 8 million rubles in hand. It is very interesting and understandable that with those organizational capabilities, yes, and with that effort, yes, because, in fact, what does a typical day consist of, yes, it is you wake up, yes, there, write off, there, roughly speaking, there, with Skodera, yes, who, there, helps you, there, write software, write viruses, yes, asks, there, how everything is done, check, there, who are you kicking, yes, there, well, let's say you have three people working, yes, you, there, act as an organizer, yes, you make sure that everything works, yes, really, that the material, there, goes, yes, there is a constant turnover of money, as if everyone received everything and with such a desire to make money and work, you can, in principle, have a good legal business with a good income.
In principle, and how you, as a person, inspires me very much precisely in terms of legalizing everything that is left after you. That is, yes, your entire experience, it would seem, is criminal, it has very well transferred to such a legal type of activity, and what did you realize, well, as I understand it, only in prison, that after all, in life... Life is not measured in numbers, not in numbers, but...
Well, it seems to me that life is not measured in numbers, but in relationships with people, and, yes, you need to do something truly useful for the world, for yourself and for your loved ones.
What else can you do?
Pavlovich:
And what else can you do in life?
Carder:
Probably, before I took up the cardinal and in the process of taking up the cardinal, when something didn’t work out, I tried different things, tried video filming, tried some... I remember, I was sitting at home one day, I had 5 thousand rubles in my pocket. And I thought, what can I do with 5 thousand rubles? What kind of business? I came up with something like, you know, it was called, well, I don’t remember the name exactly now, but it was like these little gifts, you know, surprise gifts.
That is, you pay a certain amount, and they put gifts for you for a certain amount.
Pavlovich:
Today, I was offered to advertise something like this, well, it seems like it’s not a scam, yes, that is, I asked them what the person gets, they say, well, what kind of gift does he expect, what is it.
Carder:
Yes, yes, based on his interests, some preferences, and so on.
Pavlovich:
But I told them that, I say, you can’t handle my advertising budget, and there, well, my budget is quite high, they say.
Carder:
I’m even interested in finding out how much.
Pavlovich:
They offered me half the amount, I say, no, well, excuse me.
Carder:
Not interested.
Pavlovich:
Not interested, yes.
Carder:
Well, I've tried a lot, I'll say I've tried a lot, but why did it happen here? I don't know why, maybe it really is my thing, yes, because at that time I started getting into card tricks, just card tricks with cards, with regular grinds. And I really liked communicating, I won't say deceiving people, just giving people emotions, by being able to do some kind of shenanigans, even with cards, to surprise them somehow.
I don't know, is it somehow connected with bank cards, probably not, but I just liked somehow communicating with people, because you still communicate with these cashiers, with someone else, with consultants in the store. It's all constant communication, and a certain image is needed, of course. It all adds up, and in the end you get an expensive paid product without any suspicions about your identity.
Yeah, well, came, bought, left, that's it. That is, an ordinary person, there, in ordinary Moscow. You don't arouse any suspicions, no one thinks anything about you. In principle, you can work for a long time, yes, there, two, three, four years. But, of course, sooner or later you start to relax, you start to come out of this image, you show that you don't count money. And after that, well, some questions arise for you. And, perhaps, right at the checkout one day, on an ordinary day, you will go to pay for some product to sell it.
And they will just grab you right at the checkout and say "that's it, you were in development there for some time, we know everything about you, in principle, there is no point in you saying anything there, making excuses, everything is there."
What product is the most liquid?
Pavlovich:
And what product is the most liquid?
Carder:
Liquid? Equipment. Of course, there has always been liquid equipment, then comes clothing, some mass markets, yes, and ending with some thematic things like dishes, Well, you know, things that everyone needs, but not everyone is ready to buy them.
Pavlovich:
At full price?
Carder:
Well, not at full price, 50 to 20% of the equipment is dropped. Equipment can be sold for 90% of the cost.
Where do you sell carved goods?
Pavlovich:
And where do you sell them?
Carder:
Buyers.
Carder:
These are often companies that are simply engaged in the sale of equipment, you just resell it to them, it is very profitable for them, they put it out as just a promotional item and that's it. And so you sell the goods. It is profitable for them, they get gigantic money in comparison. Well, you sold it for 90% of the cost, yes. They there, well, they sell some expensive goods for 95% or 98%, it doesn't matter. Well, there is still some kind of discount, if we talk about clothes, there is more, yes, a sale, so to speak, 60% of the cost.
Well, it is beneficial for everyone. That is, if we talk about who suffers in this system, anyone can suffer, from the card owner to the bank that conducted the transactions in Russia. But most often, if we talk about why, then the cashiers do not ask you a question, because the money of the store where you buy something will always receive money according to the law. In Russia, stores are protected by law.
And the bank that conducted the transaction in Russia may not receive money in one case, if it violated the rules for conducting the transaction, which were regulated by the payment system, generally speaking. Incorrectly sent data in the wrong format or used an inferior method of card authorization. That is, if the card has a chip, and the terminal was without Had to swipe along the grave strip, the bank in Russia will not receive money, that is, it will not receive for conducting the transaction.
Who suffers most often? This is either the issuing bank in the same America that issued the American card, or the insurance company, because in most cases, American bank accounts are insured and the insurance company suffers as well. If the transaction was with a PIN code, or it was somehow forged, the cardholder was unable to prove that it was not he in Russia, or there was a person in Russia at that time when money was withdrawn from his card, then he will not be able to prove that it was not he who paid the issuer.
In general, in rare cases the holder suffers, including if the transaction was with a PIN code. If he lost the PIN code, this is his personal information, which he promised the bank that it would not lose. He lost it, accordingly, no one will return the money for the transaction that he did not conduct. And most often, the organizer of this whole mess with bank cards is the payment system that issued the card.
It is an intermediary between the bank that issued the card and the store. It transfers money in fact, well, and to people as well, who pay, that is, it transfers money from the bank, yes, from a person's account to the payment account of the retail outlet, yes. And most often the payment system suffers, because, well, it often bears all the risks, yes, it always guarantees everything to everyone, but it does not always work out.
And it bears great risks in conducting fraudulent transactions, well, and most often it compensates them.
Pavlovich:
Well, okay, thank you for coming, don't forget about such things, don't relax, it's better to tie up this criminal crap as soon as possible, do something useful, thank you, viewers, but what you all saw and heard, that is, my time, it was a little different, it's up to you to draw conclusions, in general, I don't know, I'll express my opinion on this whole situation, but in any case, let it not be easy
it is criminal and it can one day lead you to jail, so write in the comments what you liked, what you didn't like and in general what questions you have about this video, I will certainly answer myself and voice them there to other market professionals and we will think about your questions together.
Carder:
I will even say at the end that it does not matter how it all began, what matters is how it all ends, sooner or later it will all.
Pavlovich:
Well, you see, in your case they haven't caught you yet, I hope it will continue like this, good luck to everyone, thank you, bye!
