Cloned Boy
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Counterintelligence officer Nikolai Alekseevich Sham, Major General, Deputy Chairman of the KGB of the USSR, talks about various things, including a laboratory within the special services that was engaged from 1988 to 2005 in work that can only be called magic - unnatural technologies. These technologies were used during military operations. Similar work was carried out in the United States under the STARGATE program. My guest confirmed that the information from the second issue of the Army Collection for 2019 about the use of parapsychology, which was met with bewilderment by the scientific community and the general public, is true. This is a sensation.
Interviewer:
Hello, dear audience. Our guest is Nikolai Alekseevich Sham. He is a Major General and he had the honor of being the last deputy or deputy of the last chairman of the State Security Committee of the USSR. Correct? This was already in the post-Soviet era. The Soviet Union was already ending, but the State Security Committee still remained. Before that, he had been involved in counterintelligence, heading a department that was in charge of counterintelligence at industrial enterprises.
That is, in particular, he also served me, so that I would not get mixed up with spies, including monitoring in your department. And it is also written on the Internet that he had some relation to the most advanced developments, to the most advanced research, to the kind that, generally speaking, how can I say, did not even come into life, yes, did not go on an open voyage, yes.
That's how things are. He said everything correctly, right? But you corrected me, he says, this, he says, was not my job, it was a hobby. I, he says, was interested in science. Let's develop this hobby of yours, if you don't mind, Comrade General.
Counterintelligence officer:
Let's try, let's try. Well, if it turned out that way, I was always inclined to innovation.
And when I started my career at the Orsk Mechanical Plant, I made several such fundamental inventions that had a qualitative impact on the production of the products that this plant made. Well, these were mainly large-caliber cartridge cases. And then steel cartridge cases came into use, remember, there were always brass cartridge cases, and then steel ones came into use, and then different ones.
Interviewer:
And what kind of large caliber is that? Well, up to two hundred. Oh, that’s for big guns.
Counterintelligence officer:
Yes, for big guns.
Interviewer:
Steel ones came into use, varnished steel ones, right?
Counterintelligence officer:
Yes, steel ones.
Interviewer:
You take the barrel out of the hot one, and it’s already white. The varnish has burned off.
Counterintelligence officer:
No, it's not just varnish, you can't say that the varnish burned out, because there is a complex surface treatment that provides protection and easy extraction of the cartridges from the barrel bore. And then I made several inventions, and, in fact, like... Just, if it's interesting, I can tell you about one of my inventions. Two inventions even. The first, naturally, when the production of steel cartridges began, the raw material for it was steel circles, which were made, as they say, at the Chelyabinsk Metallurgical Plant.
These steel circles arrived at the plant in grease, in solid oil. Naturally, before starting the chemical treatment and subsequent pressing, this grease had to be removed. And there was a team of Zhichin, about twelve people, who cleaned them all with tow, with kerosene.
Naturally, the costs, imagine what they were. I looked at this thing, I thought, why clean them like this? Let's install a bathtub. We'll put two pipes with holes in this bath and let the steam in there. And we'll just throw these steel disks onto this grinder. It'll roll until the end.
Interviewer:
And it'll wash itself off.
Counterintelligence officer:
We did. As a result, two women per shift could handle a month's worth of processing these disks. Can you imagine the savings? 12 women. Enormous. Savings. The second topic that also interested me, is that when the cartridges are made, there's the first, verification, first stage, second stage, third, fourth, fifth, and everywhere after cold processing on presses, and
the presses were American, American Bliz presses, which were delivered under Lend-Lease back in the years of the Great Patriotic War, and these presses were used to process these steel semi-finished products as such, and after each processing there had to be heat treatment. Either hardening, or annealing, or tempering. And here are the low-temperature tempering furnaces. That is, the cartridge case passed through there for about 3.5 hours.
Cycle. 3.5 hours. These cartridge cases were placed on the belt, and it slowly crawled. Subjecting the metal of the cartridge case itself to low-temperature action. I looked and looked at this thing, and what if we put it in one layer?
Interviewer:
Yes, indeed.
Counterintelligence officer:
Let's try putting it in two layers. Well, we made such delicate, of course, delicate structures, put them up and put them down, doubled the volume of passage. You can also imagine what a saving. And this hobby of mine, as they say, has remained for life. That is, wherever I was, wherever I worked, I was always kind of fascinated by this topic and there were not always interesting people who came up with some specific ideas, proposals, developments.
Well, and during this time, of course, a colossal potential has accumulated, here is the information potential, which, as they say, could allow us to radically and qualitatively change everything in the country. Literally, radically and qualitatively change everything in the country. But what was all this trouble? What was all this trouble? That is, when, for example, some genius appears with some of his own
ideas and so on and his idea, if you look at its quality and try to develop it to the final stage, it immediately calls into question what existed before it, well, well, it is clear that you can’t get away from this, well, imagine our military-industrial organizations that consisted of a research institute, a design bureau, a plant, all sorts of associations, and so on and so forth, and
when some topic was opened that was naturally financed from the budget, then naturally this entire infrastructure wanted, as they say, to offer topics that require gigantic billions for their development, and so on and so forth, and this system, it kind of existed, exists and continues to exist to this day in Russia and in this system of innovation, a different approach, a qualitatively different approach, it is unnatural to it, simply unnatural.
And therefore I have repeatedly made such attempts, informed various generals, chief designers on this topic, but have never met with understanding of support and development. That's why all these topics, they somehow kind of spun, revolved. And, generally speaking, when I left the system, I left in 1992, I left in 1992, although I simply left for health reasons.
Why? Because when this bacchanalia began in the country, of course, my body could not withstand all sorts of experiences and so on. I began to have various such serious illnesses, I barely survived in this situation. And even more so, I have consequences, I am a Chernobyl survivor, as they say. I was on the roof of the reactor four times, as such, caught this radiation, as they say, and so on. That's why I will not talk about all the twists and turns that I had to put before medicine, but in all cases I survived.
And when I finally came to my senses, I resigned and decided to take up these new technologies. We created the company "Center for Research of High-Intensity Technologies". That's its name, CINT. And with this company we launched a broad propaganda activity not only in the country, but also in the whole world in this case.
And in fact, we managed to implement some topics over several years. Successfully implement them. But they did not receive such a large-scale comprehensive character. For example, if it is interesting, we worked with Poland, and we decided to put one topic there, related to micro-grinding.
You take a mineral, any mineral, with a certain degree of hardness, why because when you go to super hard material quartz, yes, like quartz, diamond, etc., this is already a different topic that requires a different quality solution in terms of the tools that the engaged person should use for this business, but with medium hardness, low hardness, our technologies worked amazingly, and the idea was what the rotary vortex mill was, and what the rotary vortex mill represented.
Two disks with targets on the end components. Targets? Targets. These are carbide plates that, when the disk starts to rotate, have 4 rows on one disk, and 3 rows on the second disk.
And in fact, the product that entered the micro-grinding zone from the bunker was hit by one target, the product bounced off, hit the second target, and so up to 7 times it was hit by such a sharp blow and was extracted from the mill at supersonic speed, so we, as if with the help of this technology, the product with a size of 5-6 millimeters at the output we had 4-5 microns, imagine, and what it is when you provide micro-grinding of the product, its quality becomes completely different, for example, take such a simple example, as it were, A simple example.
So you take, as it were, the same chalk, yes, in the usual, 5-6, with a size of 5-6 millimeters, yes, pieces, and you grind this piece. So you have, as it were, a suitcase of this chalk, at the output you get a product with a size that occupies the volume of this room.
Wow. Can you imagine? And we decided to use this micro-grinding for the first time in Poland. We installed this complex. Well, it's practically a whole plant. Why? Because the platforms, bunkers, loading, conveyors, the equipment itself, the extraction system, the separation system, and so on. It's a whole complex. Why? Because at the output you should receive a conditioned product, in which elements with a size greater than 5 microns should be excluded.
We solved all these problems. And here is the first task that we did, we provided micro-assistance for chalk. Can you imagine how it is used in chemistry, where only it is not used in this case. And we made a super-conditioned product with such a size, and it was the most expensive on the market. Can you imagine, what costs were needed with traditional technologies to produce such a quality, as they say, product.
And we have one mill, in fact, with its productivity met the needs of ten factories in Poland that used this chalk. 10 one mill, imagine what the plant made from it, and everything that is used for various chemical elements that are used for plastics, filler, filler, and so on and so forth.
Well, so what? Everyone lined up? Nothing like that. Why? Because this is a super new technology, made unnecessary, the work of thousands of people. Today we installed one mill. Then we conducted another experiment with this mill. This is straw. Can you imagine, agricultural production, how much waste is generated from this business and so on.
And these stacks are sort of stored, something is done with them and so on and so forth. We conducted an experiment related to the fact that we ensured the micro-grinding of this straw. As a result, we got a product that burned better than gas. Well, in terms of calorific value, the heat that it gave off.
Interviewer:
The combustion surface turned out to be very large.
Counterintelligence officer:
Naturally. Absolutely right, absolutely right. Well, so this technology did not go anywhere. Why? Because, imagine, if you were to, like, install these complexes at a straw producer, imagine what kind of transportation costs arise.
Interviewer:
You understood from the very beginning what kind of transport, therefore, the technology went, but on the other hand, the producer of straw itself can turn it into good fuel and not use gas, but here you see, these are whole as producers of straw, here there can be a livestock complex that needs heat.
Counterintelligence officer:
Machines that are needed for this, imagine, this is not just there, on the other hand, of course, you are leading the bastard to yourself, but because of him you have to pay, and so on and so forth, and similarly, on the other hand, but you know, this is not the sphere, these technologies are not for modern civilization, not for modern civilization, the only direction that has received market use is micro-grinding of waste
. Well, a food product, seeds, peels of all kinds, here and there, and so on, and so forth. That is, in fact, when we tried all this and received this product, it became an ideal additive to dietary products. Ideal, can you imagine? That is, digestibility, vitamins, here and there, everything was preserved. And in Poland for many years now, the production of these dietary products has been based on the work of our mill, which will provide such micro-pomo.
Well, I have given you several such examples from the point of view of the so-called, I even came up with the term "closing technologies". Yes, yes. Closing technologies. Here is another technology that I am still working on. This is friction thermology. It is present everywhere.
And humanity, fighting this friction, this is ideal processing, grinding, a bunch of technological regulations are used in order to provide a smooth surface, to reduce this friction coefficient. And we found one product, which consists of particularly hard components, silicon, silicon-2.
This is a solid product. But if you provide its size of 2-3 microns, then this product, when introduced into a mask, removes friction from the oil. And so we still produce and sell a product called Polivit.
And so you need it, if you want, in the engine, 30 milligrams of this product per liter of oil, so you have 5 liters of oil, so you put 150 milligrams into this oil and after 300-400 kilometers of running, your engine becomes different, that is, its power increases by 20 percent, its
fuel economy is ensured by 20 percent, noise, vibration and other things disappear, that is, it, so to speak, grinds the unevenness, it does not just grind the unevenness, it creates the force of its fine dispersion, it creates a kind of field with the oil on the surface of the rubbing and the bodies no longer interact with each other, but with this
Interviewer:
oil and it spins in this, I understand, I understand, that is, they are also like balls there.
Counterintelligence:
The microsphere is absolutely a microsphere, but unfortunately, again you imagine how you would take that sort of closing technology, you would come to gas stations and offer them to sell it together with fuel, we tried several times a categorical refusal, but what, why, and because the
fuel consumer will start saving 15-20 percent of oil, the oil resource increases in.
Interviewer:
Five times then it closes, 10-15 percent of gas stations need to close.
Counterintelligence officer:
But the average citizen who sort of turns the steering wheel in this case, I even remember him, once we had a committee on the pillowcase in the Moscow government, I gave a report and proposed, as they say, to transfer all Moscow transport to our product, well, at first they got so hot on this matter, they allocated a motor transport company, a motor transport company, within
a month, 20 units of transport began to be processed, buses and minicars, and they drove and gave a report on the average fuel economy on each vegetator was 20 percent, the official report was still Luzhkov and why did everything go, no one needs it, no one needs it, why because any motor transport company, well, it’s clear they steal
oil, steal gasoline, steal everything, and here you can imagine, you must officially register, as they say, the implementation of this technology, which is shown and so naturally, it is necessary to change quotas and so on, there will be less stealing, and as a result, it has not received such widespread distribution, although you can imagine this multi-million city in which millions of people spin every day cars, imagine millions of drivers
Interviewer:
they spend hours turning the steering wheel, well, yes, but maybe it would be suitable for the army.
Counterintelligence officer:
The army is not that, it’s like a special conversation, but it’s not that it’s such a bureaucratic, stupid, underdeveloped system, which has an operating algorithm.
Interviewer:
Well, they’ll get an algorithm from above, put it up for adoption, there is.
Counterintelligence officer:
They have to go through the whole procedure. Well, naturally. The whole procedure, checks, receiving a conclusion, and so on. And this whole procedure, this whole procedure, takes from one and a half to two years.
Interviewer:
Well, they’ll do it, one and a half to two years, and they’ll adopt it.
Counterintelligence officer:
I worked with one military institute, which was headed by an academician, he couldn’t do anything. He couldn’t do anything. Although they conducted all the tests, experiments, received a report. He couldn’t do anything. Why? Because you’re again entering a zone where there are quotas, consumption volumes. Bases, people, teams are involved in this.
Everything is involved. And here you go with your, as they say, snout into the Kalashnikov row and try, as they say, to change everything. This system will swallow you, spit you out and then walk all over you. That's life. That's life. What is the introduction of new technologies in our country? Well, it's like that everywhere, in principle.
It's like that everywhere, but here it's in a more, you know, wild form.
Interviewer:
A clear and understandable form. And I saw your speech at the, so to speak, Siegel Readings. You said there that in general, the development of the Earth and life on it, all this is somehow not without reason. And all this is under the influence of some kind of reasonable, so to speak, beginning. And nothing is confused.
Counterintelligence officer:
Yes, well, this topic, you see, it is such a broad topic, it is such a broad topic, which, as they say, you can study your whole life and encounter various phenomena, life events, and so on and so forth, but what is natural is that we are not alone in this universe. Well, not alone, yes. That is the first thing.
Secondly, if there is a more developed civilization, a more developed civilization, a civilization, then, in principle, it is this more developed civilization that is the founder of our civilization as such. Why? Because, if, for example, we take our life today, our life today, and look at some, so to speak, innovations, know-how, some and so on and so forth, then, in principle, for example, here is the topic.
Topic. Transfer of information. It turns out that there are technologies that allow information to be transferred from one point to another. Here is an operator who forms some thought, and sends this thought somewhere, and some object, some subject perceives it.
Interviewer:
Telepathy, or what?
Counterintelligence officer:
Like telepathy, telekinesis as such. These experiments have already been conducted countless times and it has been firmly proven that this phenomenon exists. And you can’t get away from this matter. I still remember, in the committee on inventions, when Nayashkov was the chairman.
Interviewer:
What years was that approximately?
Counterintelligence officer:
It was somewhere in 1994-95-96, and one figure from Novosibirsk came to him, who was engaged in such non-traditional affairs, as such, and he tells Nayashkov, He says, how can you confirm all this? He says, for God’s sake, let’s do it right from your office. Here I am demonstrating to you now, my office is in Novosibirsk.
Here I am now entering, moving my office, remotely, and telling you what is taking place there in this society. Who is there, who is sitting where, who is doing what, the situation and so on. Well, he says, well, let’s do it. So, this is done, he describes everything. After that, they call the office on a cell phone. And he asks to say what someone is saying. A complete match.
A complete match. That is, he did not distort anything, but gave a clear picture of what was happening in the office.
Interviewer:
Well, maybe they had already agreed in advance, when he left for them?
Counterintelligence officer:
Well, this is just one experiment. I am aware of several such experiments. But were such experiments conducted in Soviet times? You understand, in this case, these things related to telekinesis, information transfer, and so on, and in the Soviet Union there were people who had such qualities, such properties.
Interviewer:
Well, these are, so to speak, amateurs, right?
Counterintelligence officer:
Yes, they are like amateurs. Well, who tried their own thing.
Interviewer:
Their science, in principle, was somehow skeptical about them.
Counterintelligence officer:
Well, the Gulyaevsky Institute, do you know the Gulyaevsky Institute? GOLIK. It's an institute of radio electronics, it's an academic institute. They were professionally involved in this topic there. That is, those people who declared themselves as people with unusual properties, they took them, checked them, conducted experiments. And even equipment was created that allowed recording what a person declares.
I have a friend, a psychic, I've known him since 1985. We first met in 1985, and our first meeting we were sitting in the Rossiya Hotel in a room, and he was demonstrating his abilities.
He sat down 5 meters away from me and said, I will now direct my energy beam at you. He raises his hand. I feel some kind of wave moving in my face. He says, I radiate. And this energy is radiated... All people radiate. Well, for some it is, as they say, from half a meter to a meter, but for me, you see, my energy spreads as such up to five meters.
But he, having discovered this property for himself, tried to use this matter from the point of view of treating people. That is, in fact, a sick person, naturally, has a broken immune system, imbalance, including energy imbalance and so on. And when a person has specific health problems, so He was engaged, as they say, in the treatment of this person in his energy field. And received...
Well, not in all cases, of course, it is impossible to say that a person is, as they say, nuclear, omnipotent. Naturally, he had a certain spectrum of diseases that were susceptible to his influence, his field as such, and so on. And so, over many years, he is 85 years old, how many years have passed, already for 40 years, of course, having practice. Naturally, he accumulated experience, became more and more of a professional in this field, and so on.
And now he is still working, he is already 70 years old. Does he treat? Yes, he continues to treat. Well, this is his, you know, private business as such, and so on. And he is in quite serious demand. He is known in certain circles and they turn to him.
And when I was interested in extrasensory perception, I encountered many people. I have a friend, Professor Zvonnikov, we agreed to create a special center that would have not only a practical treatment system, but also a scientific sector that would continue to study these things as such.
And so on. And we created this center on the basis of the first clinic of the MPS. This center existed for several years, but then with the arrival of our new team, new Russian management and so on, they found it all unnecessary. Although this center, it even did such purely practical serious things.
Why? Because the railway department developed such specialized laboratories, that is, each railway department had a point consisting of two laboratories. The first laboratory was engaged in diagnostics, and the second laboratory was engaged in treatment. And so dozens of such laboratories were created in the railway system. The effect was amazing, that is, literally in three months, the incidence of diseases was reduced by 300 percent.
Can you imagine? 300 percent. Four times. Constant monitoring, constant tracking was carried out. Moreover, a person, he was kind of digitized, processed, all information about him was stored, as they say, and so on. Therefore, he was constantly monitored, all his dynamics, all changes, and so on.
And when you set this matter up professionally, then, naturally, you always do what needs to be done for this person in time, so as not to let any develop.
Interviewer:
There is illness and so on in the MPS, yes, well-established health protection.
Counterintelligence officer:
Then, as it were, such surges, as they say, even some kind of success occur in Russia, such serious interest occurs, that is, and so on.
Interviewer:
Then the wave of disillusionment went down, and recently in a magazine, such a magazine, as it is called, like a military herald, there is such a thing, there was an article about all sorts of unconventional, so to speak, means in case of defeat of intelligence there, and there, it means, he wrote that we have such specialists
who can, by force of will, so to speak, telepathically, actually read a document that is in a closed safe, or so to speak, question a person, read his thoughts, yes, let's say, this has always been perceived by the general public, let's say, very critically.
Counterintelligence officer:
And what in fact do I know these things to encounter such things as such and with people who carried out these things, but you understand this is seriously in the sense of how exotic it is, such a serious exoticism when a person has such phenomena, they exist, but in order for you to imagine in order to make a normal technology out of this phenomenon
so that everyone could work, yes, so that everyone could work, master this technology, work and so on, how much time and effort is needed to spend on all this business, well, who in our country, but such phenomena exist.
Interviewer:
There were such phenomena that can read what is in closed power and how it looks like this, like this.
Counterintelligence officer:
We remember even in Germany they did a television show, our operators conducted a demonstration experiment for them, the essence of which was that they brought hundreds of photographs in envelopes, in envelopes, and then they put them on 100, and our operators had to determine who was alive in this photograph and who was dead. There were no mistakes. Directly in the envelopes without opening.
This was in Germany, they showed it all over Germany.
Interviewer:
When was that?
Counterintelligence officer:
Oh, it was a long time ago, it was somewhere around 1993-1994-1995.
Interviewer:
And what do our operators mean?
Counterintelligence officer:
These are the guys who were specially trained. Who worked in your system, right? No, no, these are mainly young people, why, because it is the young people who have, as it were...
Interviewer:
And counterintelligence did not use such methods?
Counterintelligence officer:
No, they did not.
Interviewer:
Well, this is a powerful method, you must admit, and in general it is very suitable for such exotic tasks of yours. To determine whether a person is alive or not in a sealed envelope.
Counterintelligence officer:
Ah, I remember that, that is exactly it, I managed to do it somehow back when Pavlov became prime minister, remember, it was a short episode. I knew him well in this case, and I suggested to him, not even at the beginning to him, but at the beginning, when Moiseyev was the chief of the general staff, and my friend was his assistant.
Well, I say to Misha, Misha Bazhanov, talk to the marshal about opening a special laboratory in the Yanshtab system, which would deal with, as it were, dual technologies. They report here. Well? That's the problem. Prepare an order. And the next day this laboratory was created, and it existed from 1988 until 2005.
And there, it seems, very serious work was carried out there, including in terms of training such operators. And this Misha Bazhanov was once at a reception with the head of the Main Intelligence Directorate, I don’t remember his last name.
Well, he talks, tells what he does back, and suggested to him, for example, you have an illegal agent and so on, so we can easily determine whether he is a crony, whether he works for another intelligence agency or not, from a photograph, this is no problem for us. He did not comment on this matter in any way, but immediately ran to Yazov, reported everything to him, and Yazov immediately calls Nizhebozhanov to him, well, like to report what you are doing here.
And he reported to him for 40 minutes. During this period of the report, Yazov did not say a single word, only his last phrase was when he jumped up from his chair and walked out. Misha says, I don’t remember how I ended up from the fourth floor on the first floor, the next day I was on the street. But the lab was not dispersed, so she just stood up on the chair.
And they did a lot of interesting things there and so on. That is, all these technologies, they are unnatural for the existing system, unnatural. Yes, even for existing science, they are unnatural. Yes, yes, that's absolutely right. They are unnatural.
So, like, in life, sometimes some movements were given, but...
Interviewer:
That is, the materialist Yazov can even be understood somehow.
Counterintelligence officer:
Yes, yes, yes.
Interviewer:
That is, he simply did not perceive it allergically, right?
Speaker 4:
Yes, yes, yes.
Interviewer:
But, on the other hand, there was an effective application, like, let's check your agents?
Counterintelligence officer:
Even during military actions, for example, also in Chechnya. I will not tell, because these are already special topics. Closed topics. But all this took place. That is, it was possible to check the presence of dual hydropower. Yes. No problem. And so, you see, by developing these things, you can imagine what results and what technologies can be achieved. But, on the other hand, you understand, when everything is in front of you like in a mirror, and in fact, well, imagine
Interviewer:
the current state of Russia, well, for the special services, everything should be like in a mirror for this, this is their job for the special services, then they must see everything.
Counterintelligence officer:
Whether it is or not, it is better not to see, there is a structure, numerous thousand-strong structures that begin with an adjutant of colonels, end with some junior lieutenant, and so on. Shoulder straps, careers, positions, ranks, here and there, and so on. This thing, it is what constitutes the essence of this system as such.
But in fact, when you start thinking rationally, competently building, as it were, work, identifying specific target tasks and solving these tasks professionally clearly and so on, firstly, with such an organization of work, many things immediately
become clear whether a person is capable or not capable of doing this, all this is open.
Interviewer:
For example, when a war begins, it immediately becomes clear whether a commander is capable or not of commanding, here is the great fatherland, many things like that.
Counterintelligence officer:
To say left because of this how much was lost naturally this can you imagine this is as if life it dictates a tough necessary yes but even with a tough dictate of necessity what they did not do yet only was not done as they say there was no mess and so on until in the end and again this is not an ideal system was created why because millions of people are still lost even after
away therefore all this but something must be strived for naturally there is but it is a civilization as if no one wanted it anyway as if it takes place optimization it is going optimization is going but here even on the other hand then remember here as if the second side of this whole matter After all you take any population and this population is divided as if into two groups, a low-elite group and a large elite group. And this is not an elite group. And this is a large group. Who is this? These are mainly morons, semi-morons, illiterate people for whom as if...
Take the situation, sometimes mass riots occur. Here is the same Novocherkassk or the same America with its New Orleans when and so on, because as soon as qualitative changes occur related
with the fact that the security forces stop working, who comes to replace them, who is a marauder, this is such a trifle, such a trifle, who has nothing to lose, who sees that there is no control and it is possible and the collapse, theft, plundering here and there and so on and so forth, and how many such examples of civilization, therefore here on the one hand, as it were, the process is underway, and on the other hand, the other side of this whole process.
Take megacities, here is the development of megacities, this is the delirium of a madman. Megalopolis is the delirium of a madman.
Can you imagine, megalopolises are being created, millions of people between these boxes, so what do they do most of the time, what do they turn the steering wheel and ride the subway, there is a subway, they turn the car and so on and so forth, that is, the content of a megalopolis is many times higher than what you have created, for example, some micro settlement is culturally civilized, normally close to nature, and this micro settlement is engaged in some specific business, breeding sheep, cows, geese, and at least some kind of well, in the city, after all, not cows.
Interviewer:
They are engaged in geese there, and some kind of industrial production, not me.
Counterintelligence officer:
I'm just saying what kind of intellectual, you understand, you take the Soviet Union, these giants, giants of industry, and so on, and now everything is compact, mobile, back and forth, when you talk about modern technologies, communication, again, now there is the Internet, yes, yes, imagine what a source of information.
Interviewer:
You can now work out any information, you can do it remotely in many.
Counterintelligence officer:
It is absolutely right that any intellectual should turn the steering wheel, this can be done by organizing, and whoever does this, well, little by little.
Interviewer:
People start working from home and all sorts of programmers and then something like that appears, here of course you need discipline, self-discipline, you are at home, but you work.
Counterintelligence officer:
No, but here you see right there the point about no order, that is, when you take the existing infrastructure, the existing infrastructure, and you take, for example, the tax system in the country, the tax system in the country, imagine what kind of infrastructure is engaged in monitoring and collecting taxes, a huge, huge hundreds of thousands of people,
hundreds of thousands of people, and they are looking for those who are trying, as they say, to evade paying taxes and so on, a bunch of people are sitting in prison, as they say, and so on, I and the whole army are engaged in this matter, but can you, for example, put the question this way, let's do it in such a way that when a person starts working, he receives some kind of reward in the form of a salary, salaries, here and there, and so on.
Now, in modern digital technologies, everyone can be given a card that they will have for life until they retire. And all their earnings, legal earnings, go to this card. Only to this card.
Understandable, right? That is, the state can actually roll it up at any time and find out if it is taken into account.
Interviewer:
It can automatically collect taxes.
Counterintelligence officer:
Taxes, all types of social taxes, whatever they are or a bunch of these taxes are eliminated, there is only one income tax that automatically goes to the state budget from this card, depending on the income of this person. Can you imagine how many armies of people become unnecessary, how
much resources are freed up, and where these people will go when they become unnecessary?
Interviewer:
It is not those 12 women who launder the blanks that are unnecessary, you understand.
Counterintelligence officer:
Other work, there is a process, this process, it goes anyway, civilization is developing and more and more types of work are becoming unnecessary, they are the same.
Interviewer:
The bosses, they are the controllers, do you feel it? It is not that they were freed from dirty work, but they were freed from a good occupation.
Counterintelligence officer:
If, for example, the task of creating new jobs is set, this is a big problem. But for them, a job,
Interviewer:
This is not for a woman who has been rubbing herself or for a long time, they will find her a job, but these bosses have to be. You answered my question. The bosses.
Counterintelligence officer:
They decided to fire, they aimed at cutting such positions, yes, when we leave for this zone, then this is something I somehow did not think about, our well, you steal oligarchs, and so they build palaces for themselves, and I don’t even know where the logic is, common sense and so on, here in the Moscow region, these cottages have been built, hundreds of thousands of cottages, can you imagine, cottages are not some 50 square meters, they are luxurious.
Well, yes, that is, yes. And 80 percent of these cottages are now empty. Yes. You know about it. The cottage villages are empty. Yes, they are empty in this case. But can you imagine how many resources, how much money. Was spent on this.
On the other hand, this oligarch, he built for himself and lives there. That is, imagine how many jobs he creates, how many people he attracts, how much construction materials need to be produced, and how much more is needed to service all this business, and so on and so forth.
That is, these oligarchs, having taken possession of these billions in this case, these billions, they will not swallow them up right away, first of all.
Interviewer:
They create jobs.
Counterintelligence officer:
But this is local, this is not a very large scale, how many of us anti-leagues there are, hundreds of others, as such, this is not large scale, this is on the one hand, but on the other hand, if you educate a person, and first of all the spiritual component, if you start educating people from this perspective, then educating a person, if they have brains, perception, then if he is not an idiot, not from the category and so on, then for him these values, material values, become burdensome, worthless, unnecessary.
He will be completely engaged in another sphere, he will be engaged in another sphere. The sphere of the spirit, right? Including, including.
Interviewer:
But that laboratory that existed until 2005, why was it closed? After all, as you say, it had successes and it was used during the war in Chechnya when the government changed.
Counterintelligence officer:
In the fifth year, I had one episode, several years ago, I kind of tried to interest the military in super technologies. I spent several months on this matter because working contacts and meetings, checks here and there began. I looked at this whole matter, that is, imagine the intellectual level, excuse me, of our military today, it is below the baseboard.
Well, below the baseboard. Therefore, there are, like, such strategic nuances that the country possesses. Submarines, ships, strategic missiles, space, and so on and so forth.
And this infrastructure that Russia has, to some extent ensures its security and creates a kind of barrier that does not allow the same United States of America or the same Western Europe to somehow encroach on our territory and so on. And glory to you, Lord, and glory to you, Lord, that this is happening.
On the other hand, if you look at it from the other side, and look at it from the position of, like, the introduction of new technologies, the quality of new technologies, and this area of quality of new technologies allows us to create the most unique systems, and protection, and defeat of the enemy, and so on, and so forth, at a completely different quality level, with completely different costs, as such, and so on. And in our country, unfortunately, you understand, the armed forces, the security forces and all this, we maintain it.
We pay taxes and at the expense of these taxes. And does society itself somehow control the activity of these systems. Do we somehow control all this?
Interviewer:
No way.
Counterintelligence officer:
Secrecy everywhere, a regime, back and forth and so on and so forth. And God forbid, you climb, immediately, as they say, the spies will record you, and right there, and so on, and that is wrong, very wrong. Why? Because professional expert control of society must exist, it must exist.
Interviewer:
Well, how can that be? Well, you yourself, a counterintelligence officer, already understand that this is becoming an expert control of society, and the secret is leaking, the secret is leaking. It is not known what developments are being carried out. Counterintelligence
officer:
Expert control does not mean that you take a person off the street and so on. You must take a professional in a certain field. He must sign an agreement, receive access, and so on. It's all elementary. But such professionals, experts from our society, they must be there without fail. Well, remember that it was the People's Control Committee?
Interviewer:
Well, did he drop out of work with DOPSKOM, did he check?
Counterintelligence officer:
And did the People's Control Committee allow him to do these things? No, of course not. No, of course not. So that the store would check. And this is the paradox of our system, which leads to the fact that society spends gigantic resources on God knows what.
Interviewer:
Well, these are probably paradoxes of Western society too.
Counterintelligence officer:
Well, in Western society it is a little different, although I would not say that in the United States of America, yes, the Ministry of Defense regularly reports to congressmen, senators. Special commissions have been created there, which listen, make their own conclusions, comments, and so on. This takes place and is present, as such. But this is also not an ideal thing, this is also not an ideal thing, because everywhere, when money rules the world, lobbyists are everywhere, ways will be found, and so on.
And the ideal system, it should be professional, strict professional control.
Interviewer:
I don’t know, maybe I understand incorrectly, but, in my opinion, in some areas, in particular, the aerospace area, where NASA rules, and the military developments of DARPA. They have it built a little differently than we had in the Soviet Union. In the USSR, at all levels of development, there was competition between enterprises. Even during the war, Shavyrin and Grabin were simultaneously developing a 160-mm mortar.
Two parallel developments were adopted into service as one. Well, because, generally speaking, that's how it is. Well, and, accordingly, all these ATGMs were developed in parallel, yes, and the same Shavyrin Design Bureau, and Shaponov did...
Counterintelligence officer:
This took place, but at the same time, at the same time it was such a...
Interviewer:
And we also did not fly to the Moon, because there was also competition between our different missile boxes. And they still had NASA, it clearly decided what developments to conduct, understand that this is what the industry was doing, but they said that there was no competition, the choice was made on this one.
Counterintelligence officer:
At the scientific level, from above, this is the concentration of resources of competition, etc. In fact, this is the visibility of a powerful visibility and visibility.
Interviewer:
But there were parallel developments, no, and they were even put in parallel.
Counterintelligence officer:
In developments, they should be carried out not until serial production, but until some maximum prototype of the weapon was accepted, and as a result, we came to the conclusion that we have 15 types of strategic missiles for land-based use, 15 types of sea-based strategic missiles, the delirium of a madman, and how do they differ from each other?
Speaker?:
Developer.
Counterintelligence officer:
But in fact, in these systems, sometimes the only components were created and used in all these systems. We had about thirty-nine aircraft engines in operation. And forty-one aircraft engines were in operation. And the Americans had only three engines. Light, medium, heavy.
That's all.
Interviewer:
This is the work of DARP.
Counterintelligence officer:
That's why here, as it were, and then you understand, here's an example from the Soviet Union, here's an example of photo reconnaissance satellites, well, you've heard of them, of course, photo reconnaissance satellites, the American Kikhov satellite, which carried out optoelectronic reconnaissance and transmitted information in real time,
existed on the rabito for more than 700 days, and we had capsule satellites, Zenit, remember? They launched a satellite, the first satellites dropped more than one capsule, then the number of capsules increased, and so on, but we launched a gigantic number of photo reconnaissance satellites a year, which were engaged in dropping.
The capsule fell to the ground, it had to be found, taken to Baikonur, to the plane, to Moscow, and only on the fifth day did the decoder receive images of the territory.
Interviewer:
And optoelectronic reconnaissance immediately came from there, right?
Counterintelligence officer:
Then we got that too, but you understand...
Interviewer:
That's why we had so many launches, many times more than the US.
Counterintelligence officer:
I can give you examples, I once had a conversation with the head of the Main Directorate of the Ministry of General Industrial Development, one system, a satellite could exist in orbit for three years. And some satellites existed in orbit for three years, fulfilled their task.
And some failed after a couple of months. Well, the task. Well, why can't we improve it so that all the satellites functioned in orbit for three years? And in technical service for three months. The enterprise produced two devices for these satellites, which were of such quality.
Well, take two devices, modify them so that they function for three years. And so I come to the head of the department and say finally. Well, can't we solve such a simple problem? What does the head of the department answer me? I will not deal with this issue.
Why? Because as soon as we solve this problem, increasing the lifespan of the satellite, in fact it turns out 12 times, can you imagine how many people I have to free.
Interviewer:
I'll answer now. Hello. Yes yes yes yes better by five yes good five so let's continue, I'm not stopping
Counterintelligence officer:
Well, I gave you an example, that is, he categorically refused to deal with this matter, why because in fact, in other words, 12 times should be reduced and all these civilian launches are reduced, which means no rockets.
Interviewer:
That much is needed. The entire Ministry of General Engineering, then they can make rockets for flights to Venus or Mars, and so just throw them into orbit every three months.
Counterintelligence officer:
You understand, Venus, Mars are for countries at the level of development, the same Americans, they can afford it. The Americans allow themselves to do this for some reason, because they rob the whole world, well, yes, that's why they can afford it, like we are poorer, we are much poorer for this reason.
Interviewer:
For these developments, like you said about the bureau that existed until 2005, it was probably the Americans who were involved in them, one thing is obvious.
Counterintelligence officer:
They even had a time when some kind of openness went with the Americans, even some kind of working contacts began, meetings just in this zone as such, that is, it continued for several more years, such close ties with the Americans were formed. They also had such a program called Stargate.
Speaker 3:
So.
Counterintelligence officer:
Similar to what our laboratory was doing, they were doing the same thing. Well, there were some certain fundamental differences, why, because we had more, as they say, going into the area of creating technical means. And they have more of that area, less technology, more of these people, possessing such unique capabilities. We even had one book published a few years ago called Psi Wars.
We wrote this book together with the Americans. It is still on sale, you can find it.
Interviewer:
Psychological wars Psi wars Psi wars Well, now they also continue to work on it, they closed it, no, they also closed this business, why is it ineffective, well, they close it when or when it has already become a practice, there is nothing to research, or when it is sometimes to me to find it, they sent me once alone
comrade at least here is a very interesting comrade, be sure to talk to him, he was blind, or half blind, he already had poor vision, and his reasoning was so, well, strange, he perceived all this in a strange way, there are all sorts of black holes, stars about them, he had his own idea, well, but nevertheless, he was sent by such honored people who
used his services, his advice, well, well, here he is, well, he told here that he gave some unusual advice, remotely something there, found some faults, something else. Well, judging by the fact that he was sent to me, then this is confirmed. Well, the public does not believe. The public that watched it, it does not believe it anyway. And here too, look how. You spoke clearly about all sorts of experiments, right? About work in the laboratory.
Well, the lab was closed, so it's not just the public that doesn't believe it, the public, God bless them. They just don't know everything. And why was the lab closed? They killed the topic, they closed the subject.
Counterintelligence officer:
When such a system was formed in the country, many millions of armies of officials, hypostasis, infrastructure, and so on. These technologies, which I Concealing technologies, they give their assessment to everyone, and everything becomes clear to everyone, as such. And for the current civilization this is not necessary, it is simply not necessary.
Therefore, as it were, life exists, the process is going on, everyone is happy with it, as such. It is simply not necessary. Sometimes some outbursts can occur, explosive, as such, which are usually associated, perhaps, with the departure of the first person or something else. Well, yes.
And so on, and so all this exists evolutionarily, develops, figuratively speaking in quotation marks, therefore all these closing technologies, they are not needed by anyone, they become necessary only when a person has nowhere to go, simply nowhere to go, as such, and they are forced to try to implement all these things, as they say, this is a very rare edge at all, but now everyone is talking about us.
Interviewer:
Global warming is also some kind of edge, soon everything will be really bad, everything where there used to be bread will grow will be a desert where the glaciers will melt, everything will be flooded now, probably, just such an edge or not, this creates the impression of an edge.
Counterintelligence officer:
You understand, here it is always necessary, making some conclusions, deductions and so on, it is always necessary to base oneself on very serious materials, factual materials. And when you start making some conclusions and deductions, based on serious materials, then one can talk about some conclusions, some deductions. But in fact, this is a frenzied situation, because now the entire press, television, and so on, they are all in a frenzy.
Well, it's clear, sensation, you say it right, and all the nouns in this perspective. And when you start, naturally, some trends with the climate, they take place. Today we have the Arctic covered with ice, trends, as it were, and so on, and tomorrow there will be a friend, etc.
Therefore, these conclusions must be made when you analyze the information and make tough, specific conclusions based on factual material. That is, the translation into.
Interviewer:
The public plane, it is too ... This is a hype from the point of view of advertising. It interferes with understanding the reality.
Counterintelligence officer:
Professionals, they own all this.
Interviewer:
All the same, when all this is hype, and professionals have a different opinion.
Counterintelligence officer:
I remember many years ago in the Ministry of Agriculture there was such an institute of cybernetics, there was such an institute, and Minzhinsky's grandson worked there, and his topic was long-term weather forecasting, and he brought his methodology to perfection.
That is, in fact, his technology allowed him to make a forecast for 12 years ahead.
Interviewer:
Oh, come on.
Counterintelligence officer:
Yes, for 12 years. But he practically did it for 5 years, because 12 years is too much, and 5 years is somehow perceived even more on the ground. And so on. And so I had these materials, and I was amazed at the coincidences of imagery and weight. But in fact, he had a serious program that allowed him to take into account a lot of factors that allowed him to make certain conclusions from the point of view of forecasting.
That was the kind of program he had. But again, it didn’t go anywhere. Nobody needed it. In principle. Why? Because, you understand, such an approach requires intellectual work from leaders.
Interviewer:
But the weather didn’t mean that it would rain tomorrow or that it would rain on June 5th.
Counterintelligence officer:
No.
Interviewer:
Warm summer or cold summer.
Counterintelligence officer:
These are the weekly cycles. In fact, this is.
Interviewer:
Like a climate one.
Counterintelligence officer:
Which is tough. So you take a region. I mean, there is this forecast, when you are engaged in agricultural work, you need to determine when to start planting, when to start processing, when to start harvesting, and so on. This technology provided super optimal options for making decisions as such and also no one needs it why because it even requires managers,
you know, to give you a forecast for 5 years, you can imagine what needs to be done in one region, you need to plant one another, another in a third region, the same thing.
Interviewer:
Intellectual work, you need to understand everything, yes, this is necessary.
Counterintelligence officer:
Would it be professional to put this thing into service, well, who cares?
Interviewer:
Imagine, I understand, but then the director waved to me, sent a sign that he was running out of our film, we need to finish soon and do you want to say something in conclusion, well, I don’t know, maybe you wanted to convey an idea, but there was no place for it in the conversation.
Counterintelligence officer:
You see, I’ve already spoken several times in today’s speech about closing technologies. I’m simply calling on people who somehow have some kind of power and the ability to organize some projects and so on to show interest in these innovations. Why, because there are fewer and fewer of these people who have such technologies,
especially in Russia, and so let such people suddenly have a spark in their souls that will make them move in the direction of changing our life, switching to something completely different. But this is more for the big ones.
Interviewer:
To the bosses who don’t want to change anything. That’s the kind of appeal I have. Yes, well, that’s a good appeal. Thank you very much. Thank you. And thank you to the audience for your attention.
Interviewer:
Hello, dear audience. Our guest is Nikolai Alekseevich Sham. He is a Major General and he had the honor of being the last deputy or deputy of the last chairman of the State Security Committee of the USSR. Correct? This was already in the post-Soviet era. The Soviet Union was already ending, but the State Security Committee still remained. Before that, he had been involved in counterintelligence, heading a department that was in charge of counterintelligence at industrial enterprises.
That is, in particular, he also served me, so that I would not get mixed up with spies, including monitoring in your department. And it is also written on the Internet that he had some relation to the most advanced developments, to the most advanced research, to the kind that, generally speaking, how can I say, did not even come into life, yes, did not go on an open voyage, yes.
That's how things are. He said everything correctly, right? But you corrected me, he says, this, he says, was not my job, it was a hobby. I, he says, was interested in science. Let's develop this hobby of yours, if you don't mind, Comrade General.
Counterintelligence officer:
Let's try, let's try. Well, if it turned out that way, I was always inclined to innovation.
And when I started my career at the Orsk Mechanical Plant, I made several such fundamental inventions that had a qualitative impact on the production of the products that this plant made. Well, these were mainly large-caliber cartridge cases. And then steel cartridge cases came into use, remember, there were always brass cartridge cases, and then steel ones came into use, and then different ones.
Interviewer:
And what kind of large caliber is that? Well, up to two hundred. Oh, that’s for big guns.
Counterintelligence officer:
Yes, for big guns.
Interviewer:
Steel ones came into use, varnished steel ones, right?
Counterintelligence officer:
Yes, steel ones.
Interviewer:
You take the barrel out of the hot one, and it’s already white. The varnish has burned off.
Counterintelligence officer:
No, it's not just varnish, you can't say that the varnish burned out, because there is a complex surface treatment that provides protection and easy extraction of the cartridges from the barrel bore. And then I made several inventions, and, in fact, like... Just, if it's interesting, I can tell you about one of my inventions. Two inventions even. The first, naturally, when the production of steel cartridges began, the raw material for it was steel circles, which were made, as they say, at the Chelyabinsk Metallurgical Plant.
These steel circles arrived at the plant in grease, in solid oil. Naturally, before starting the chemical treatment and subsequent pressing, this grease had to be removed. And there was a team of Zhichin, about twelve people, who cleaned them all with tow, with kerosene.
Naturally, the costs, imagine what they were. I looked at this thing, I thought, why clean them like this? Let's install a bathtub. We'll put two pipes with holes in this bath and let the steam in there. And we'll just throw these steel disks onto this grinder. It'll roll until the end.
Interviewer:
And it'll wash itself off.
Counterintelligence officer:
We did. As a result, two women per shift could handle a month's worth of processing these disks. Can you imagine the savings? 12 women. Enormous. Savings. The second topic that also interested me, is that when the cartridges are made, there's the first, verification, first stage, second stage, third, fourth, fifth, and everywhere after cold processing on presses, and
the presses were American, American Bliz presses, which were delivered under Lend-Lease back in the years of the Great Patriotic War, and these presses were used to process these steel semi-finished products as such, and after each processing there had to be heat treatment. Either hardening, or annealing, or tempering. And here are the low-temperature tempering furnaces. That is, the cartridge case passed through there for about 3.5 hours.
Cycle. 3.5 hours. These cartridge cases were placed on the belt, and it slowly crawled. Subjecting the metal of the cartridge case itself to low-temperature action. I looked and looked at this thing, and what if we put it in one layer?
Interviewer:
Yes, indeed.
Counterintelligence officer:
Let's try putting it in two layers. Well, we made such delicate, of course, delicate structures, put them up and put them down, doubled the volume of passage. You can also imagine what a saving. And this hobby of mine, as they say, has remained for life. That is, wherever I was, wherever I worked, I was always kind of fascinated by this topic and there were not always interesting people who came up with some specific ideas, proposals, developments.
Well, and during this time, of course, a colossal potential has accumulated, here is the information potential, which, as they say, could allow us to radically and qualitatively change everything in the country. Literally, radically and qualitatively change everything in the country. But what was all this trouble? What was all this trouble? That is, when, for example, some genius appears with some of his own
ideas and so on and his idea, if you look at its quality and try to develop it to the final stage, it immediately calls into question what existed before it, well, well, it is clear that you can’t get away from this, well, imagine our military-industrial organizations that consisted of a research institute, a design bureau, a plant, all sorts of associations, and so on and so forth, and
when some topic was opened that was naturally financed from the budget, then naturally this entire infrastructure wanted, as they say, to offer topics that require gigantic billions for their development, and so on and so forth, and this system, it kind of existed, exists and continues to exist to this day in Russia and in this system of innovation, a different approach, a qualitatively different approach, it is unnatural to it, simply unnatural.
And therefore I have repeatedly made such attempts, informed various generals, chief designers on this topic, but have never met with understanding of support and development. That's why all these topics, they somehow kind of spun, revolved. And, generally speaking, when I left the system, I left in 1992, I left in 1992, although I simply left for health reasons.
Why? Because when this bacchanalia began in the country, of course, my body could not withstand all sorts of experiences and so on. I began to have various such serious illnesses, I barely survived in this situation. And even more so, I have consequences, I am a Chernobyl survivor, as they say. I was on the roof of the reactor four times, as such, caught this radiation, as they say, and so on. That's why I will not talk about all the twists and turns that I had to put before medicine, but in all cases I survived.
And when I finally came to my senses, I resigned and decided to take up these new technologies. We created the company "Center for Research of High-Intensity Technologies". That's its name, CINT. And with this company we launched a broad propaganda activity not only in the country, but also in the whole world in this case.
And in fact, we managed to implement some topics over several years. Successfully implement them. But they did not receive such a large-scale comprehensive character. For example, if it is interesting, we worked with Poland, and we decided to put one topic there, related to micro-grinding.
You take a mineral, any mineral, with a certain degree of hardness, why because when you go to super hard material quartz, yes, like quartz, diamond, etc., this is already a different topic that requires a different quality solution in terms of the tools that the engaged person should use for this business, but with medium hardness, low hardness, our technologies worked amazingly, and the idea was what the rotary vortex mill was, and what the rotary vortex mill represented.
Two disks with targets on the end components. Targets? Targets. These are carbide plates that, when the disk starts to rotate, have 4 rows on one disk, and 3 rows on the second disk.
And in fact, the product that entered the micro-grinding zone from the bunker was hit by one target, the product bounced off, hit the second target, and so up to 7 times it was hit by such a sharp blow and was extracted from the mill at supersonic speed, so we, as if with the help of this technology, the product with a size of 5-6 millimeters at the output we had 4-5 microns, imagine, and what it is when you provide micro-grinding of the product, its quality becomes completely different, for example, take such a simple example, as it were, A simple example.
So you take, as it were, the same chalk, yes, in the usual, 5-6, with a size of 5-6 millimeters, yes, pieces, and you grind this piece. So you have, as it were, a suitcase of this chalk, at the output you get a product with a size that occupies the volume of this room.
Wow. Can you imagine? And we decided to use this micro-grinding for the first time in Poland. We installed this complex. Well, it's practically a whole plant. Why? Because the platforms, bunkers, loading, conveyors, the equipment itself, the extraction system, the separation system, and so on. It's a whole complex. Why? Because at the output you should receive a conditioned product, in which elements with a size greater than 5 microns should be excluded.
We solved all these problems. And here is the first task that we did, we provided micro-assistance for chalk. Can you imagine how it is used in chemistry, where only it is not used in this case. And we made a super-conditioned product with such a size, and it was the most expensive on the market. Can you imagine, what costs were needed with traditional technologies to produce such a quality, as they say, product.
And we have one mill, in fact, with its productivity met the needs of ten factories in Poland that used this chalk. 10 one mill, imagine what the plant made from it, and everything that is used for various chemical elements that are used for plastics, filler, filler, and so on and so forth.
Well, so what? Everyone lined up? Nothing like that. Why? Because this is a super new technology, made unnecessary, the work of thousands of people. Today we installed one mill. Then we conducted another experiment with this mill. This is straw. Can you imagine, agricultural production, how much waste is generated from this business and so on.
And these stacks are sort of stored, something is done with them and so on and so forth. We conducted an experiment related to the fact that we ensured the micro-grinding of this straw. As a result, we got a product that burned better than gas. Well, in terms of calorific value, the heat that it gave off.
Interviewer:
The combustion surface turned out to be very large.
Counterintelligence officer:
Naturally. Absolutely right, absolutely right. Well, so this technology did not go anywhere. Why? Because, imagine, if you were to, like, install these complexes at a straw producer, imagine what kind of transportation costs arise.
Interviewer:
You understood from the very beginning what kind of transport, therefore, the technology went, but on the other hand, the producer of straw itself can turn it into good fuel and not use gas, but here you see, these are whole as producers of straw, here there can be a livestock complex that needs heat.
Counterintelligence officer:
Machines that are needed for this, imagine, this is not just there, on the other hand, of course, you are leading the bastard to yourself, but because of him you have to pay, and so on and so forth, and similarly, on the other hand, but you know, this is not the sphere, these technologies are not for modern civilization, not for modern civilization, the only direction that has received market use is micro-grinding of waste
. Well, a food product, seeds, peels of all kinds, here and there, and so on, and so forth. That is, in fact, when we tried all this and received this product, it became an ideal additive to dietary products. Ideal, can you imagine? That is, digestibility, vitamins, here and there, everything was preserved. And in Poland for many years now, the production of these dietary products has been based on the work of our mill, which will provide such micro-pomo.
Well, I have given you several such examples from the point of view of the so-called, I even came up with the term "closing technologies". Yes, yes. Closing technologies. Here is another technology that I am still working on. This is friction thermology. It is present everywhere.
And humanity, fighting this friction, this is ideal processing, grinding, a bunch of technological regulations are used in order to provide a smooth surface, to reduce this friction coefficient. And we found one product, which consists of particularly hard components, silicon, silicon-2.
This is a solid product. But if you provide its size of 2-3 microns, then this product, when introduced into a mask, removes friction from the oil. And so we still produce and sell a product called Polivit.
And so you need it, if you want, in the engine, 30 milligrams of this product per liter of oil, so you have 5 liters of oil, so you put 150 milligrams into this oil and after 300-400 kilometers of running, your engine becomes different, that is, its power increases by 20 percent, its
fuel economy is ensured by 20 percent, noise, vibration and other things disappear, that is, it, so to speak, grinds the unevenness, it does not just grind the unevenness, it creates the force of its fine dispersion, it creates a kind of field with the oil on the surface of the rubbing and the bodies no longer interact with each other, but with this
Interviewer:
oil and it spins in this, I understand, I understand, that is, they are also like balls there.
Counterintelligence:
The microsphere is absolutely a microsphere, but unfortunately, again you imagine how you would take that sort of closing technology, you would come to gas stations and offer them to sell it together with fuel, we tried several times a categorical refusal, but what, why, and because the
fuel consumer will start saving 15-20 percent of oil, the oil resource increases in.
Interviewer:
Five times then it closes, 10-15 percent of gas stations need to close.
Counterintelligence officer:
But the average citizen who sort of turns the steering wheel in this case, I even remember him, once we had a committee on the pillowcase in the Moscow government, I gave a report and proposed, as they say, to transfer all Moscow transport to our product, well, at first they got so hot on this matter, they allocated a motor transport company, a motor transport company, within
a month, 20 units of transport began to be processed, buses and minicars, and they drove and gave a report on the average fuel economy on each vegetator was 20 percent, the official report was still Luzhkov and why did everything go, no one needs it, no one needs it, why because any motor transport company, well, it’s clear they steal
oil, steal gasoline, steal everything, and here you can imagine, you must officially register, as they say, the implementation of this technology, which is shown and so naturally, it is necessary to change quotas and so on, there will be less stealing, and as a result, it has not received such widespread distribution, although you can imagine this multi-million city in which millions of people spin every day cars, imagine millions of drivers
Interviewer:
they spend hours turning the steering wheel, well, yes, but maybe it would be suitable for the army.
Counterintelligence officer:
The army is not that, it’s like a special conversation, but it’s not that it’s such a bureaucratic, stupid, underdeveloped system, which has an operating algorithm.
Interviewer:
Well, they’ll get an algorithm from above, put it up for adoption, there is.
Counterintelligence officer:
They have to go through the whole procedure. Well, naturally. The whole procedure, checks, receiving a conclusion, and so on. And this whole procedure, this whole procedure, takes from one and a half to two years.
Interviewer:
Well, they’ll do it, one and a half to two years, and they’ll adopt it.
Counterintelligence officer:
I worked with one military institute, which was headed by an academician, he couldn’t do anything. He couldn’t do anything. Although they conducted all the tests, experiments, received a report. He couldn’t do anything. Why? Because you’re again entering a zone where there are quotas, consumption volumes. Bases, people, teams are involved in this.
Everything is involved. And here you go with your, as they say, snout into the Kalashnikov row and try, as they say, to change everything. This system will swallow you, spit you out and then walk all over you. That's life. That's life. What is the introduction of new technologies in our country? Well, it's like that everywhere, in principle.
It's like that everywhere, but here it's in a more, you know, wild form.
Interviewer:
A clear and understandable form. And I saw your speech at the, so to speak, Siegel Readings. You said there that in general, the development of the Earth and life on it, all this is somehow not without reason. And all this is under the influence of some kind of reasonable, so to speak, beginning. And nothing is confused.
Counterintelligence officer:
Yes, well, this topic, you see, it is such a broad topic, it is such a broad topic, which, as they say, you can study your whole life and encounter various phenomena, life events, and so on and so forth, but what is natural is that we are not alone in this universe. Well, not alone, yes. That is the first thing.
Secondly, if there is a more developed civilization, a more developed civilization, a civilization, then, in principle, it is this more developed civilization that is the founder of our civilization as such. Why? Because, if, for example, we take our life today, our life today, and look at some, so to speak, innovations, know-how, some and so on and so forth, then, in principle, for example, here is the topic.
Topic. Transfer of information. It turns out that there are technologies that allow information to be transferred from one point to another. Here is an operator who forms some thought, and sends this thought somewhere, and some object, some subject perceives it.
Interviewer:
Telepathy, or what?
Counterintelligence officer:
Like telepathy, telekinesis as such. These experiments have already been conducted countless times and it has been firmly proven that this phenomenon exists. And you can’t get away from this matter. I still remember, in the committee on inventions, when Nayashkov was the chairman.
Interviewer:
What years was that approximately?
Counterintelligence officer:
It was somewhere in 1994-95-96, and one figure from Novosibirsk came to him, who was engaged in such non-traditional affairs, as such, and he tells Nayashkov, He says, how can you confirm all this? He says, for God’s sake, let’s do it right from your office. Here I am demonstrating to you now, my office is in Novosibirsk.
Here I am now entering, moving my office, remotely, and telling you what is taking place there in this society. Who is there, who is sitting where, who is doing what, the situation and so on. Well, he says, well, let’s do it. So, this is done, he describes everything. After that, they call the office on a cell phone. And he asks to say what someone is saying. A complete match.
A complete match. That is, he did not distort anything, but gave a clear picture of what was happening in the office.
Interviewer:
Well, maybe they had already agreed in advance, when he left for them?
Counterintelligence officer:
Well, this is just one experiment. I am aware of several such experiments. But were such experiments conducted in Soviet times? You understand, in this case, these things related to telekinesis, information transfer, and so on, and in the Soviet Union there were people who had such qualities, such properties.
Interviewer:
Well, these are, so to speak, amateurs, right?
Counterintelligence officer:
Yes, they are like amateurs. Well, who tried their own thing.
Interviewer:
Their science, in principle, was somehow skeptical about them.
Counterintelligence officer:
Well, the Gulyaevsky Institute, do you know the Gulyaevsky Institute? GOLIK. It's an institute of radio electronics, it's an academic institute. They were professionally involved in this topic there. That is, those people who declared themselves as people with unusual properties, they took them, checked them, conducted experiments. And even equipment was created that allowed recording what a person declares.
I have a friend, a psychic, I've known him since 1985. We first met in 1985, and our first meeting we were sitting in the Rossiya Hotel in a room, and he was demonstrating his abilities.
He sat down 5 meters away from me and said, I will now direct my energy beam at you. He raises his hand. I feel some kind of wave moving in my face. He says, I radiate. And this energy is radiated... All people radiate. Well, for some it is, as they say, from half a meter to a meter, but for me, you see, my energy spreads as such up to five meters.
But he, having discovered this property for himself, tried to use this matter from the point of view of treating people. That is, in fact, a sick person, naturally, has a broken immune system, imbalance, including energy imbalance and so on. And when a person has specific health problems, so He was engaged, as they say, in the treatment of this person in his energy field. And received...
Well, not in all cases, of course, it is impossible to say that a person is, as they say, nuclear, omnipotent. Naturally, he had a certain spectrum of diseases that were susceptible to his influence, his field as such, and so on. And so, over many years, he is 85 years old, how many years have passed, already for 40 years, of course, having practice. Naturally, he accumulated experience, became more and more of a professional in this field, and so on.
And now he is still working, he is already 70 years old. Does he treat? Yes, he continues to treat. Well, this is his, you know, private business as such, and so on. And he is in quite serious demand. He is known in certain circles and they turn to him.
And when I was interested in extrasensory perception, I encountered many people. I have a friend, Professor Zvonnikov, we agreed to create a special center that would have not only a practical treatment system, but also a scientific sector that would continue to study these things as such.
And so on. And we created this center on the basis of the first clinic of the MPS. This center existed for several years, but then with the arrival of our new team, new Russian management and so on, they found it all unnecessary. Although this center, it even did such purely practical serious things.
Why? Because the railway department developed such specialized laboratories, that is, each railway department had a point consisting of two laboratories. The first laboratory was engaged in diagnostics, and the second laboratory was engaged in treatment. And so dozens of such laboratories were created in the railway system. The effect was amazing, that is, literally in three months, the incidence of diseases was reduced by 300 percent.
Can you imagine? 300 percent. Four times. Constant monitoring, constant tracking was carried out. Moreover, a person, he was kind of digitized, processed, all information about him was stored, as they say, and so on. Therefore, he was constantly monitored, all his dynamics, all changes, and so on.
And when you set this matter up professionally, then, naturally, you always do what needs to be done for this person in time, so as not to let any develop.
Interviewer:
There is illness and so on in the MPS, yes, well-established health protection.
Counterintelligence officer:
Then, as it were, such surges, as they say, even some kind of success occur in Russia, such serious interest occurs, that is, and so on.
Interviewer:
Then the wave of disillusionment went down, and recently in a magazine, such a magazine, as it is called, like a military herald, there is such a thing, there was an article about all sorts of unconventional, so to speak, means in case of defeat of intelligence there, and there, it means, he wrote that we have such specialists
who can, by force of will, so to speak, telepathically, actually read a document that is in a closed safe, or so to speak, question a person, read his thoughts, yes, let's say, this has always been perceived by the general public, let's say, very critically.
Counterintelligence officer:
And what in fact do I know these things to encounter such things as such and with people who carried out these things, but you understand this is seriously in the sense of how exotic it is, such a serious exoticism when a person has such phenomena, they exist, but in order for you to imagine in order to make a normal technology out of this phenomenon
so that everyone could work, yes, so that everyone could work, master this technology, work and so on, how much time and effort is needed to spend on all this business, well, who in our country, but such phenomena exist.
Interviewer:
There were such phenomena that can read what is in closed power and how it looks like this, like this.
Counterintelligence officer:
We remember even in Germany they did a television show, our operators conducted a demonstration experiment for them, the essence of which was that they brought hundreds of photographs in envelopes, in envelopes, and then they put them on 100, and our operators had to determine who was alive in this photograph and who was dead. There were no mistakes. Directly in the envelopes without opening.
This was in Germany, they showed it all over Germany.
Interviewer:
When was that?
Counterintelligence officer:
Oh, it was a long time ago, it was somewhere around 1993-1994-1995.
Interviewer:
And what do our operators mean?
Counterintelligence officer:
These are the guys who were specially trained. Who worked in your system, right? No, no, these are mainly young people, why, because it is the young people who have, as it were...
Interviewer:
And counterintelligence did not use such methods?
Counterintelligence officer:
No, they did not.
Interviewer:
Well, this is a powerful method, you must admit, and in general it is very suitable for such exotic tasks of yours. To determine whether a person is alive or not in a sealed envelope.
Counterintelligence officer:
Ah, I remember that, that is exactly it, I managed to do it somehow back when Pavlov became prime minister, remember, it was a short episode. I knew him well in this case, and I suggested to him, not even at the beginning to him, but at the beginning, when Moiseyev was the chief of the general staff, and my friend was his assistant.
Well, I say to Misha, Misha Bazhanov, talk to the marshal about opening a special laboratory in the Yanshtab system, which would deal with, as it were, dual technologies. They report here. Well? That's the problem. Prepare an order. And the next day this laboratory was created, and it existed from 1988 until 2005.
And there, it seems, very serious work was carried out there, including in terms of training such operators. And this Misha Bazhanov was once at a reception with the head of the Main Intelligence Directorate, I don’t remember his last name.
Well, he talks, tells what he does back, and suggested to him, for example, you have an illegal agent and so on, so we can easily determine whether he is a crony, whether he works for another intelligence agency or not, from a photograph, this is no problem for us. He did not comment on this matter in any way, but immediately ran to Yazov, reported everything to him, and Yazov immediately calls Nizhebozhanov to him, well, like to report what you are doing here.
And he reported to him for 40 minutes. During this period of the report, Yazov did not say a single word, only his last phrase was when he jumped up from his chair and walked out. Misha says, I don’t remember how I ended up from the fourth floor on the first floor, the next day I was on the street. But the lab was not dispersed, so she just stood up on the chair.
And they did a lot of interesting things there and so on. That is, all these technologies, they are unnatural for the existing system, unnatural. Yes, even for existing science, they are unnatural. Yes, yes, that's absolutely right. They are unnatural.
So, like, in life, sometimes some movements were given, but...
Interviewer:
That is, the materialist Yazov can even be understood somehow.
Counterintelligence officer:
Yes, yes, yes.
Interviewer:
That is, he simply did not perceive it allergically, right?
Speaker 4:
Yes, yes, yes.
Interviewer:
But, on the other hand, there was an effective application, like, let's check your agents?
Counterintelligence officer:
Even during military actions, for example, also in Chechnya. I will not tell, because these are already special topics. Closed topics. But all this took place. That is, it was possible to check the presence of dual hydropower. Yes. No problem. And so, you see, by developing these things, you can imagine what results and what technologies can be achieved. But, on the other hand, you understand, when everything is in front of you like in a mirror, and in fact, well, imagine
Interviewer:
the current state of Russia, well, for the special services, everything should be like in a mirror for this, this is their job for the special services, then they must see everything.
Counterintelligence officer:
Whether it is or not, it is better not to see, there is a structure, numerous thousand-strong structures that begin with an adjutant of colonels, end with some junior lieutenant, and so on. Shoulder straps, careers, positions, ranks, here and there, and so on. This thing, it is what constitutes the essence of this system as such.
But in fact, when you start thinking rationally, competently building, as it were, work, identifying specific target tasks and solving these tasks professionally clearly and so on, firstly, with such an organization of work, many things immediately
become clear whether a person is capable or not capable of doing this, all this is open.
Interviewer:
For example, when a war begins, it immediately becomes clear whether a commander is capable or not of commanding, here is the great fatherland, many things like that.
Counterintelligence officer:
To say left because of this how much was lost naturally this can you imagine this is as if life it dictates a tough necessary yes but even with a tough dictate of necessity what they did not do yet only was not done as they say there was no mess and so on until in the end and again this is not an ideal system was created why because millions of people are still lost even after
away therefore all this but something must be strived for naturally there is but it is a civilization as if no one wanted it anyway as if it takes place optimization it is going optimization is going but here even on the other hand then remember here as if the second side of this whole matter After all you take any population and this population is divided as if into two groups, a low-elite group and a large elite group. And this is not an elite group. And this is a large group. Who is this? These are mainly morons, semi-morons, illiterate people for whom as if...
Take the situation, sometimes mass riots occur. Here is the same Novocherkassk or the same America with its New Orleans when and so on, because as soon as qualitative changes occur related
with the fact that the security forces stop working, who comes to replace them, who is a marauder, this is such a trifle, such a trifle, who has nothing to lose, who sees that there is no control and it is possible and the collapse, theft, plundering here and there and so on and so forth, and how many such examples of civilization, therefore here on the one hand, as it were, the process is underway, and on the other hand, the other side of this whole process.
Take megacities, here is the development of megacities, this is the delirium of a madman. Megalopolis is the delirium of a madman.
Can you imagine, megalopolises are being created, millions of people between these boxes, so what do they do most of the time, what do they turn the steering wheel and ride the subway, there is a subway, they turn the car and so on and so forth, that is, the content of a megalopolis is many times higher than what you have created, for example, some micro settlement is culturally civilized, normally close to nature, and this micro settlement is engaged in some specific business, breeding sheep, cows, geese, and at least some kind of well, in the city, after all, not cows.
Interviewer:
They are engaged in geese there, and some kind of industrial production, not me.
Counterintelligence officer:
I'm just saying what kind of intellectual, you understand, you take the Soviet Union, these giants, giants of industry, and so on, and now everything is compact, mobile, back and forth, when you talk about modern technologies, communication, again, now there is the Internet, yes, yes, imagine what a source of information.
Interviewer:
You can now work out any information, you can do it remotely in many.
Counterintelligence officer:
It is absolutely right that any intellectual should turn the steering wheel, this can be done by organizing, and whoever does this, well, little by little.
Interviewer:
People start working from home and all sorts of programmers and then something like that appears, here of course you need discipline, self-discipline, you are at home, but you work.
Counterintelligence officer:
No, but here you see right there the point about no order, that is, when you take the existing infrastructure, the existing infrastructure, and you take, for example, the tax system in the country, the tax system in the country, imagine what kind of infrastructure is engaged in monitoring and collecting taxes, a huge, huge hundreds of thousands of people,
hundreds of thousands of people, and they are looking for those who are trying, as they say, to evade paying taxes and so on, a bunch of people are sitting in prison, as they say, and so on, I and the whole army are engaged in this matter, but can you, for example, put the question this way, let's do it in such a way that when a person starts working, he receives some kind of reward in the form of a salary, salaries, here and there, and so on.
Now, in modern digital technologies, everyone can be given a card that they will have for life until they retire. And all their earnings, legal earnings, go to this card. Only to this card.
Understandable, right? That is, the state can actually roll it up at any time and find out if it is taken into account.
Interviewer:
It can automatically collect taxes.
Counterintelligence officer:
Taxes, all types of social taxes, whatever they are or a bunch of these taxes are eliminated, there is only one income tax that automatically goes to the state budget from this card, depending on the income of this person. Can you imagine how many armies of people become unnecessary, how
much resources are freed up, and where these people will go when they become unnecessary?
Interviewer:
It is not those 12 women who launder the blanks that are unnecessary, you understand.
Counterintelligence officer:
Other work, there is a process, this process, it goes anyway, civilization is developing and more and more types of work are becoming unnecessary, they are the same.
Interviewer:
The bosses, they are the controllers, do you feel it? It is not that they were freed from dirty work, but they were freed from a good occupation.
Counterintelligence officer:
If, for example, the task of creating new jobs is set, this is a big problem. But for them, a job,
Interviewer:
This is not for a woman who has been rubbing herself or for a long time, they will find her a job, but these bosses have to be. You answered my question. The bosses.
Counterintelligence officer:
They decided to fire, they aimed at cutting such positions, yes, when we leave for this zone, then this is something I somehow did not think about, our well, you steal oligarchs, and so they build palaces for themselves, and I don’t even know where the logic is, common sense and so on, here in the Moscow region, these cottages have been built, hundreds of thousands of cottages, can you imagine, cottages are not some 50 square meters, they are luxurious.
Well, yes, that is, yes. And 80 percent of these cottages are now empty. Yes. You know about it. The cottage villages are empty. Yes, they are empty in this case. But can you imagine how many resources, how much money. Was spent on this.
On the other hand, this oligarch, he built for himself and lives there. That is, imagine how many jobs he creates, how many people he attracts, how much construction materials need to be produced, and how much more is needed to service all this business, and so on and so forth.
That is, these oligarchs, having taken possession of these billions in this case, these billions, they will not swallow them up right away, first of all.
Interviewer:
They create jobs.
Counterintelligence officer:
But this is local, this is not a very large scale, how many of us anti-leagues there are, hundreds of others, as such, this is not large scale, this is on the one hand, but on the other hand, if you educate a person, and first of all the spiritual component, if you start educating people from this perspective, then educating a person, if they have brains, perception, then if he is not an idiot, not from the category and so on, then for him these values, material values, become burdensome, worthless, unnecessary.
He will be completely engaged in another sphere, he will be engaged in another sphere. The sphere of the spirit, right? Including, including.
Interviewer:
But that laboratory that existed until 2005, why was it closed? After all, as you say, it had successes and it was used during the war in Chechnya when the government changed.
Counterintelligence officer:
In the fifth year, I had one episode, several years ago, I kind of tried to interest the military in super technologies. I spent several months on this matter because working contacts and meetings, checks here and there began. I looked at this whole matter, that is, imagine the intellectual level, excuse me, of our military today, it is below the baseboard.
Well, below the baseboard. Therefore, there are, like, such strategic nuances that the country possesses. Submarines, ships, strategic missiles, space, and so on and so forth.
And this infrastructure that Russia has, to some extent ensures its security and creates a kind of barrier that does not allow the same United States of America or the same Western Europe to somehow encroach on our territory and so on. And glory to you, Lord, and glory to you, Lord, that this is happening.
On the other hand, if you look at it from the other side, and look at it from the position of, like, the introduction of new technologies, the quality of new technologies, and this area of quality of new technologies allows us to create the most unique systems, and protection, and defeat of the enemy, and so on, and so forth, at a completely different quality level, with completely different costs, as such, and so on. And in our country, unfortunately, you understand, the armed forces, the security forces and all this, we maintain it.
We pay taxes and at the expense of these taxes. And does society itself somehow control the activity of these systems. Do we somehow control all this?
Interviewer:
No way.
Counterintelligence officer:
Secrecy everywhere, a regime, back and forth and so on and so forth. And God forbid, you climb, immediately, as they say, the spies will record you, and right there, and so on, and that is wrong, very wrong. Why? Because professional expert control of society must exist, it must exist.
Interviewer:
Well, how can that be? Well, you yourself, a counterintelligence officer, already understand that this is becoming an expert control of society, and the secret is leaking, the secret is leaking. It is not known what developments are being carried out. Counterintelligence
officer:
Expert control does not mean that you take a person off the street and so on. You must take a professional in a certain field. He must sign an agreement, receive access, and so on. It's all elementary. But such professionals, experts from our society, they must be there without fail. Well, remember that it was the People's Control Committee?
Interviewer:
Well, did he drop out of work with DOPSKOM, did he check?
Counterintelligence officer:
And did the People's Control Committee allow him to do these things? No, of course not. No, of course not. So that the store would check. And this is the paradox of our system, which leads to the fact that society spends gigantic resources on God knows what.
Interviewer:
Well, these are probably paradoxes of Western society too.
Counterintelligence officer:
Well, in Western society it is a little different, although I would not say that in the United States of America, yes, the Ministry of Defense regularly reports to congressmen, senators. Special commissions have been created there, which listen, make their own conclusions, comments, and so on. This takes place and is present, as such. But this is also not an ideal thing, this is also not an ideal thing, because everywhere, when money rules the world, lobbyists are everywhere, ways will be found, and so on.
And the ideal system, it should be professional, strict professional control.
Interviewer:
I don’t know, maybe I understand incorrectly, but, in my opinion, in some areas, in particular, the aerospace area, where NASA rules, and the military developments of DARPA. They have it built a little differently than we had in the Soviet Union. In the USSR, at all levels of development, there was competition between enterprises. Even during the war, Shavyrin and Grabin were simultaneously developing a 160-mm mortar.
Two parallel developments were adopted into service as one. Well, because, generally speaking, that's how it is. Well, and, accordingly, all these ATGMs were developed in parallel, yes, and the same Shavyrin Design Bureau, and Shaponov did...
Counterintelligence officer:
This took place, but at the same time, at the same time it was such a...
Interviewer:
And we also did not fly to the Moon, because there was also competition between our different missile boxes. And they still had NASA, it clearly decided what developments to conduct, understand that this is what the industry was doing, but they said that there was no competition, the choice was made on this one.
Counterintelligence officer:
At the scientific level, from above, this is the concentration of resources of competition, etc. In fact, this is the visibility of a powerful visibility and visibility.
Interviewer:
But there were parallel developments, no, and they were even put in parallel.
Counterintelligence officer:
In developments, they should be carried out not until serial production, but until some maximum prototype of the weapon was accepted, and as a result, we came to the conclusion that we have 15 types of strategic missiles for land-based use, 15 types of sea-based strategic missiles, the delirium of a madman, and how do they differ from each other?
Speaker?:
Developer.
Counterintelligence officer:
But in fact, in these systems, sometimes the only components were created and used in all these systems. We had about thirty-nine aircraft engines in operation. And forty-one aircraft engines were in operation. And the Americans had only three engines. Light, medium, heavy.
That's all.
Interviewer:
This is the work of DARP.
Counterintelligence officer:
That's why here, as it were, and then you understand, here's an example from the Soviet Union, here's an example of photo reconnaissance satellites, well, you've heard of them, of course, photo reconnaissance satellites, the American Kikhov satellite, which carried out optoelectronic reconnaissance and transmitted information in real time,
existed on the rabito for more than 700 days, and we had capsule satellites, Zenit, remember? They launched a satellite, the first satellites dropped more than one capsule, then the number of capsules increased, and so on, but we launched a gigantic number of photo reconnaissance satellites a year, which were engaged in dropping.
The capsule fell to the ground, it had to be found, taken to Baikonur, to the plane, to Moscow, and only on the fifth day did the decoder receive images of the territory.
Interviewer:
And optoelectronic reconnaissance immediately came from there, right?
Counterintelligence officer:
Then we got that too, but you understand...
Interviewer:
That's why we had so many launches, many times more than the US.
Counterintelligence officer:
I can give you examples, I once had a conversation with the head of the Main Directorate of the Ministry of General Industrial Development, one system, a satellite could exist in orbit for three years. And some satellites existed in orbit for three years, fulfilled their task.
And some failed after a couple of months. Well, the task. Well, why can't we improve it so that all the satellites functioned in orbit for three years? And in technical service for three months. The enterprise produced two devices for these satellites, which were of such quality.
Well, take two devices, modify them so that they function for three years. And so I come to the head of the department and say finally. Well, can't we solve such a simple problem? What does the head of the department answer me? I will not deal with this issue.
Why? Because as soon as we solve this problem, increasing the lifespan of the satellite, in fact it turns out 12 times, can you imagine how many people I have to free.
Interviewer:
I'll answer now. Hello. Yes yes yes yes better by five yes good five so let's continue, I'm not stopping
Counterintelligence officer:
Well, I gave you an example, that is, he categorically refused to deal with this matter, why because in fact, in other words, 12 times should be reduced and all these civilian launches are reduced, which means no rockets.
Interviewer:
That much is needed. The entire Ministry of General Engineering, then they can make rockets for flights to Venus or Mars, and so just throw them into orbit every three months.
Counterintelligence officer:
You understand, Venus, Mars are for countries at the level of development, the same Americans, they can afford it. The Americans allow themselves to do this for some reason, because they rob the whole world, well, yes, that's why they can afford it, like we are poorer, we are much poorer for this reason.
Interviewer:
For these developments, like you said about the bureau that existed until 2005, it was probably the Americans who were involved in them, one thing is obvious.
Counterintelligence officer:
They even had a time when some kind of openness went with the Americans, even some kind of working contacts began, meetings just in this zone as such, that is, it continued for several more years, such close ties with the Americans were formed. They also had such a program called Stargate.
Speaker 3:
So.
Counterintelligence officer:
Similar to what our laboratory was doing, they were doing the same thing. Well, there were some certain fundamental differences, why, because we had more, as they say, going into the area of creating technical means. And they have more of that area, less technology, more of these people, possessing such unique capabilities. We even had one book published a few years ago called Psi Wars.
We wrote this book together with the Americans. It is still on sale, you can find it.
Interviewer:
Psychological wars Psi wars Psi wars Well, now they also continue to work on it, they closed it, no, they also closed this business, why is it ineffective, well, they close it when or when it has already become a practice, there is nothing to research, or when it is sometimes to me to find it, they sent me once alone
comrade at least here is a very interesting comrade, be sure to talk to him, he was blind, or half blind, he already had poor vision, and his reasoning was so, well, strange, he perceived all this in a strange way, there are all sorts of black holes, stars about them, he had his own idea, well, but nevertheless, he was sent by such honored people who
used his services, his advice, well, well, here he is, well, he told here that he gave some unusual advice, remotely something there, found some faults, something else. Well, judging by the fact that he was sent to me, then this is confirmed. Well, the public does not believe. The public that watched it, it does not believe it anyway. And here too, look how. You spoke clearly about all sorts of experiments, right? About work in the laboratory.
Well, the lab was closed, so it's not just the public that doesn't believe it, the public, God bless them. They just don't know everything. And why was the lab closed? They killed the topic, they closed the subject.
Counterintelligence officer:
When such a system was formed in the country, many millions of armies of officials, hypostasis, infrastructure, and so on. These technologies, which I Concealing technologies, they give their assessment to everyone, and everything becomes clear to everyone, as such. And for the current civilization this is not necessary, it is simply not necessary.
Therefore, as it were, life exists, the process is going on, everyone is happy with it, as such. It is simply not necessary. Sometimes some outbursts can occur, explosive, as such, which are usually associated, perhaps, with the departure of the first person or something else. Well, yes.
And so on, and so all this exists evolutionarily, develops, figuratively speaking in quotation marks, therefore all these closing technologies, they are not needed by anyone, they become necessary only when a person has nowhere to go, simply nowhere to go, as such, and they are forced to try to implement all these things, as they say, this is a very rare edge at all, but now everyone is talking about us.
Interviewer:
Global warming is also some kind of edge, soon everything will be really bad, everything where there used to be bread will grow will be a desert where the glaciers will melt, everything will be flooded now, probably, just such an edge or not, this creates the impression of an edge.
Counterintelligence officer:
You understand, here it is always necessary, making some conclusions, deductions and so on, it is always necessary to base oneself on very serious materials, factual materials. And when you start making some conclusions and deductions, based on serious materials, then one can talk about some conclusions, some deductions. But in fact, this is a frenzied situation, because now the entire press, television, and so on, they are all in a frenzy.
Well, it's clear, sensation, you say it right, and all the nouns in this perspective. And when you start, naturally, some trends with the climate, they take place. Today we have the Arctic covered with ice, trends, as it were, and so on, and tomorrow there will be a friend, etc.
Therefore, these conclusions must be made when you analyze the information and make tough, specific conclusions based on factual material. That is, the translation into.
Interviewer:
The public plane, it is too ... This is a hype from the point of view of advertising. It interferes with understanding the reality.
Counterintelligence officer:
Professionals, they own all this.
Interviewer:
All the same, when all this is hype, and professionals have a different opinion.
Counterintelligence officer:
I remember many years ago in the Ministry of Agriculture there was such an institute of cybernetics, there was such an institute, and Minzhinsky's grandson worked there, and his topic was long-term weather forecasting, and he brought his methodology to perfection.
That is, in fact, his technology allowed him to make a forecast for 12 years ahead.
Interviewer:
Oh, come on.
Counterintelligence officer:
Yes, for 12 years. But he practically did it for 5 years, because 12 years is too much, and 5 years is somehow perceived even more on the ground. And so on. And so I had these materials, and I was amazed at the coincidences of imagery and weight. But in fact, he had a serious program that allowed him to take into account a lot of factors that allowed him to make certain conclusions from the point of view of forecasting.
That was the kind of program he had. But again, it didn’t go anywhere. Nobody needed it. In principle. Why? Because, you understand, such an approach requires intellectual work from leaders.
Interviewer:
But the weather didn’t mean that it would rain tomorrow or that it would rain on June 5th.
Counterintelligence officer:
No.
Interviewer:
Warm summer or cold summer.
Counterintelligence officer:
These are the weekly cycles. In fact, this is.
Interviewer:
Like a climate one.
Counterintelligence officer:
Which is tough. So you take a region. I mean, there is this forecast, when you are engaged in agricultural work, you need to determine when to start planting, when to start processing, when to start harvesting, and so on. This technology provided super optimal options for making decisions as such and also no one needs it why because it even requires managers,
you know, to give you a forecast for 5 years, you can imagine what needs to be done in one region, you need to plant one another, another in a third region, the same thing.
Interviewer:
Intellectual work, you need to understand everything, yes, this is necessary.
Counterintelligence officer:
Would it be professional to put this thing into service, well, who cares?
Interviewer:
Imagine, I understand, but then the director waved to me, sent a sign that he was running out of our film, we need to finish soon and do you want to say something in conclusion, well, I don’t know, maybe you wanted to convey an idea, but there was no place for it in the conversation.
Counterintelligence officer:
You see, I’ve already spoken several times in today’s speech about closing technologies. I’m simply calling on people who somehow have some kind of power and the ability to organize some projects and so on to show interest in these innovations. Why, because there are fewer and fewer of these people who have such technologies,
especially in Russia, and so let such people suddenly have a spark in their souls that will make them move in the direction of changing our life, switching to something completely different. But this is more for the big ones.
Interviewer:
To the bosses who don’t want to change anything. That’s the kind of appeal I have. Yes, well, that’s a good appeal. Thank you very much. Thank you. And thank you to the audience for your attention.
