CASHING OUT 2025: What dangers are posed by bank card fraud

[Cloned Boy]

Sergey Pavlovich talks to an experienced casher who has revealed all the secrets of debit card fraud.

Enjoy reading!

Contents:

• Is there a danger for the drop?
• Two components of the debit card market
• Where to get a large number of cards?
• Is Obnal still alive?
• Where do they get drops?
• How do you tighten up the drops?
• How much does a drop earn?
• About banking service
• Which banks are in demand on the market?
• How are banks different?
• Is it easy to issue a card?
• What does the drop get?
• What to do if the card is blocked?
• A major scam in the history of cashing out
• What volume of cards are drained per month?
• Who earns the most in the drop chain?
• Stealing money from cards
• How to put cards into overdraft
• How and why do they open cards for non-existent people?
• Stealing from cash-out operators
• Security measures
• "Drop will never get anything"
• How much do droppers steal from cards?
• How are cards registered on scans?
• Three categories of maps made from scans
• What is the current cashing percentage?
• Call centers and their volumes
• Is it possible to return blocked money?
• What does sending cards look like?
• About the cigarette business
• "Drug money is white money"
• Supplement about maps on scans
• What will happen to the cash market?
• How to protect yourself with a drop card in your hands?
• Write your comments and questions about cashing out in the comments.

Is there a danger for a drop?
Pavlovich:
Friends, hello. New interview. Glad to see you. And today we have a hero in a mask, and we talk about different topics, and the first of them is the market for cashing out all sorts of gray debit cards, cards for drops.
That is, something that has not yet existed, and now we will learn about all this in detail, you will understand from both sides. Either you need it, or just do not open a card in your name, you will not become a drop and will not get at least a fine, probably, right?

Reference:
A drop is, initially, a person under a scam: purchasing stolen goods in his name, using him as a scapegoat. Or simply using his passport data, card data to withdraw money.
This is the "lowest" link of the criminal network, which law enforcement agencies go to first.

Two components of the debit card market
Casher:
No, there are no problems there. To be honest, with the right position, there are no problems in principle. At all. But you ruin your banking biography. So, I would divide the debit card market into two components. The first is long-term work. That is, when you organize the supply of cards for different purposes, work for a long time, control the drops, pull out blocked money, solve problems, change the material, etc.
And secondly, there is the same market when a person opens a service for selling cards in order to steal the money that comes to these cards. In general, these are two such parallel markets - the debit card market.

Where to get a large number of cards?
Pavlovich:
Initially, where do the cards come from, for example, I need, I have about 6 cards myself and my wife and so on, well, we have about 20 cards from my inner circle. But if I need, for example, hundreds of cards, where can I get them? The optimal way is if I want to organize 100 cards for myself.

Casher:
The question is slightly different. Cards are taken, firstly, for white activity, which is now practically dead, for example, for white cashing. That is, white cashing in the eyes of the state is a crime. But in general, drops here, at least, did not threaten anything before, this is when there is simply tax optimization. Accordingly, such cards were relatively inexpensive 2-3, maximum 5 thousand rubles, including for Sberbank, which is in short supply.
There is a market for cards under the gray theme, this is for fraud. Why is it gray, because the consequences do not come immediately.
That is, a person has cheated on Avito, while the statement is being processed, while all this administrative fuss is going on, that is, it can take a month, six months, a year or two, when there will be consequences for some operations on this card, which, for example, are either blocking the card, or in extreme cases, even the arrival of police officers to the Drop's apartment. And there are cards for dirt, black, this is when, for example, some commercial company was opened and they are withdrawing money, for example, today on Friday evening they are withdrawing money, and they clearly know that the company will now be in a panic, that they will make efforts to return it, and literally to withdraw the money there is an hour, two, half a day or time until Monday.
And, accordingly, police officers will arrive almost immediately, some other SBS officers from banks, that is, it will take a short time, this is dirt, that's why 100 cards are 100 cards, but again, depending on the project and therefore, if I had such a problem, where to buy all this,
I would still start from what, for which there is a conditionally white market, the market of electronic exchangers, they have a wild need for cards, well, just wild, that's it, but the point is that dirt is constantly driven through exchangers, exchangers fight this, but still stolen money often enters exchangers, and therefore very often electronic exchangers throw out these cards every two months,
change them, that is, the work seems to be white, but it is not possible to avoid the entry of dirt, in 99% of cases, at most, this blocking occurs, as an empty card or a card with a balance. Well, in general, something like that.

Is cashing out alive?
Pavlovich:
Well, how to take them, how to wrap up these drops? For example, at one time, when we needed to accept parcels in the USA and Europe, we simply found job postings, for example, on headhunting sites of all sorts, and explained that you would be receiving parcels, and did not say, naturally, that stolen credit cards were bought, and these parcels were simply so that we would not have to pay customs clearance, the crazy taxes in our post-Soviet countries, you simply
unpack and throw away the invoice or print a new one there with a price tag of up to $100, but so that there would be no customs clearance for up to $100, and that's it, and you repack it all and send it to Eastern Europe, like that, into the dark.

Casher:
There are a lot of drops. The market was formed back when everything in Russia was very much tied to white cashing, that is, when almost every person knew some casher. When working with cashing out, a large number of LLCs and PEs were required, and, in short, all the movements of droppers and drop-makers, whoever controls them, grew, in general, from there. That is, an LLC was registered for a person, and in order to cash out money, two or three cards were required.
That is, it all grew out of the 2000s, and just smoothly flowed into now, when the white cashing market has been cleared of pioneers. Cashing is considered not only dead, but all outsiders have been sucked out of it, it has narrowed a lot, it is expensive, it has really gone into the private sector now. Few people know a familiar casher, that is not the case.
And a huge number of people who were hanging around this sphere, all sorts of drop-off operators and other shady characters, they are now busy trying to somehow spin, spin, and organize the supply of cards. Now if you throw out a call to some small criminal authority in the area, he will literally shower you with applications and people just in time.
Another thing is that all these people are already disgraced. With debts, under Article 115 of the Federal Code, for example, already on blacklists everywhere, already took cards, that is, repeatedly, they are blocked in these banks, because, in principle, no more than a dozen banks are required for work, and often drops are already exposed in all these banks, and we will still move on to thefts in the process of conversation, that is, the question is not even finding a drop.
You need to find a person who will not steal this money or do some other trick. That is, this is a separate market of droppers. They are forced to communicate with shit constantly. This is their job. Casher: Usually it turns out as a standard start for everyone, just believe me, it means that first the card is issued in your name, in your comrades, in your relatives, not always the relatives know what the person does, well, yes, that is, in general, the circle for which you can issue cards is quite large, friends of friends, and it is already formed, but after six months or a year of work, you've raked everything in, respectively, you or you contact some kind of drop-dealer, and those who we'll call
And I would also make such a division, that is, this is my subjective experience of observation for about 10 years: the eastern part beyond Yekaterinburg and further honest European to Yekaterinburg, Moscow and so on, this is the probability of theft due to some force majeure is much higher, that is, all this conditional lad stuff, this is the criminal hierarchy. That is, in the East, where everyone seems to know each other in these small hundred-thousand cities, in general, the cards are from there, they are less, or something, subject to theft.
Unless, of course, a person initially installed the service in order to steal, but there are also some peculiarities there, this is a job, stealing money from cards, it has its own nuances.

Where do they get the drops?
Pavlovich:
But the cards are mostly muddy, that is, these drops are wrapped up offline or online in some way? they are so lazy and modern but that is modern youth who consider themselves cool but for example on the street look like nerds then they can not approach a person and offer hay but purely he does not look like a dropper in such a case they post ads there on Avito there is a job requirement for example as a courier you are accepted in order to work with us you need to issue cards but in general such petty deception also occurs but basically we are talking about more or less professional work when drops do not deceive do not use in the dark but the card is still made for a long time so you should come to me. Pavlovich: Approached with such a request for example yes I would immediately think look at a few points first taxes. Casher: Will it go through me? Not yet, not yet. I would think, but the state is just getting closer to that, just now. Not yet. How do they tighten up the drops? Pavlovich: Okay, that is taxes. Secondly, I would think that some dirty money would be sent and, firstly, my cards would be blocked, I would ruin my, let's say, bank credit history forever.

Casher: Banking, not credit.

Pavlovich: Yes, banking. And another thing, that is, they would send some dirty money after the fraud, they would drag me to the police. And I am sure that all droppers, when they are offered to issue a card in his name, ask themselves the same questions. Taxes, dirty money and the police, and a forever ruined bank history. How do droppers solve these issues in conversations with people?

Casher:
So, they have a habit of communicating with very simple people. Habit. Habit of speaking in some, well, I don’t know, phrases that are understandable to them. That is, they themselves are from the same audience. So, the question you asked is asked only by half, the rest are indifferent, just indifferent. So, naturally, they hear that some relatives need them for some business. That is, the dropper himself, he sells these cards, and then resells those whom he sold.
And this person, the next one, also does not know where the cards will go. Because now we have smoothly moved on to discussing online purchase of cards. Not when a white casher cashes out, when people pass it from hand to hand and everyone basically knows if a drop has stolen money from there, just Dagestanis with beards come and it would be bad, that is, this is a white market, the card is cheap there, it really happened, I observed it, all these Pavlovich: Well, in short, you want to say that half of the people don’t even ask such questions, right? Casher: So they are indifferent or dumb? I don’t know a single person who practically refused, who received some more or less clear answers that everything would be fine, and this is really so. How much does a drop earn? Pavlovich: And how much does a person get, let’s say, for opening a card in his name, and then I hand it over to unknown people, and it will be sold 10 times, resold, and I won’t even know how much money came in there. So it turns out that I open a SIM card for myself, yes, online banking, and I give the card plus SIM card further down the chain. Casher: What's included? A debit card, so basically it's either a visa or a master card. Until recently, people categorically shied away from the world card. There was no need, just no need. So, a SIM card, not necessarily issued for a drop, but it could be a corporate SIM card. Then, by agreement, either an Internet bank is opened or not. A code word, a questionnaire from the bank. I guess that's all. I'll say this, I'll digress a little now, the market is so stupid that probably a third of the cards sent don't even have this set and are generally unsuitable for use, when a person comes, in short, it's disorganized, there is no such thing as a bag to a bag, a PIN to a PIN, a person receives a parcel, goes to an ATM to check the card, the PIN does not match, that is, he bought it. He waited there for a week until it came to him with DEK or something else. He puts it in the ATM, the PIN does not match, and he, let's say, has a project already burning. Well, that is, there are a lot of such upheavals.

Pavlovich:
You can assign a Dross PIN code through the NOVA application. Fortunately, in Russia, this exists. In Belarus, for example, you are forced to use the PIN code that they give you in an envelope.

Casher:
Stories, everyone knows each other here and in case of any problems, the dropper knows that he can contact the dropper, the dropper will run to this casher, the casher will send some money to the ABEP and all this will be normalized. Still, we are now discussing the market of debit cards for all sorts of grey, semi-grey, semi-white and dirty operations, which are for the Internet.
Each bank is different. Each bank is different. So, the most popular, of course, is SBIR. Why? And each person has it, it is for salary, for pension, for everything, that is, in short, it is really possible to get Sber, but this is the most popular bank and it is the most expensive, I would indicate the average prices for Sber on the market, on the market I think that 12-15 thousand is cheap for Sber Gold, now I am
talking about gold category cards 25 thousand is the price from a seller who inspires more or less some kind of trust and in general the price from a normal seller will be 1035 and higher Sber Gold on scans, that is, without the presence of a person, both on scans of a living person and on a drawn one, I think it will cost from 35 to 50 thousand, and on the shadow market, if
people making a deal through the forum, there are certain established rules, the rules are such that the card lives for a month, well, that is, a guarantee for it for any jambs, that is, an incorrect PIN, some other re-tubation for a month, what does this mean, theoretically, a person having bought Sber, having checked and having signaled that everything is fine in a month can get blocked, everything was used for a month, the drop goes, it is reissued and the cards are sold and
in principle this does not violate the rules of the forum and therefore it is also important to have personal agreements, that is, you need to discuss how long the card will work for a month or it is generally irrevocable, this is what I gave the example of Sber next, right now, cards from T-bank are in great demand, this is connected with what with the development of near-criminal businesses, Well, for example, cigarette sales.
How to pay for giant batches of this product, which, for example, go from the south of Russia to some eastern cities? On all Telegram channels that sell cigarettes, there is even a reminder, a video, that is, how to pay through Tinkoff, without a card. Well, Tinkoff knows this, now it has started to fight it.
In general, the Tinkoff card is in great demand, it costs roughly from 16 to 20 thousand, Tinkoff is distinguished by the simplicity of registration, you call today, tomorrow a courier will bring it to you.

About the service of banks
Pavlovich:
They have been working very terribly lately, I opened a wonderful one two years ago ...

Casher:
This is Moscow, in the regions.

Pavlovich:
Look, in St. Petersburg, I have a partner there, he moved from Kazakhstan to St. Petersburg and says what card to open? I say, open Tinkoff, everything is cool, yes, he will also open it using my referral links, I will get five hundred or a thousand rubles there. And he spat, for two weeks they still hadn't delivered the card, either tomorrow, or wait, or they set up a meeting and didn't deliver it. My second companion from Belarus, also lives in Moscow, ordered tenki, they took a week and a half to deliver.
Then, we arrived in Sochi just the other day, and they said, well, we'll finally bring you the card tomorrow. He said, well, fine, bring it to Sochi. He said, well, we'll bring it to Sochi. We specified the address, but they still didn't deliver it. These are two cases, twice I advised, yes, and I felt damn inferior that they just let me down, and I remember that they were a good bank, but in.

Casher:
In my eyes, T-Bank is still very, very good for me for white activities and for some other things, that is, in my case there were no problems, it is also good for me, I use it with pleasure.

Pavlovich:
I advise everyone, but recently they have been sending interns and there are always some problems with delivery, namely with the registration of cards. Perhaps this is a problem of Moscow or St. Petersburg, not the regions. So, before that, the second most important card was the Alfa-Bank card. But still, what was good about it? A good limit on some tariffs. The fact that it is included, I do not remember what it is called correctly, when you can withdraw money from different ATMs. There in Promsvyazbank, in VTB, in the partnership union. Yes, it means that it was quoted very well for cash, but still there are now many more blocks and in general, Alfa is quietly moving away, Alfa is of course, if you remind the guys. Pavlovich: Now they sent me I had a row with one person there, well, with the cashers, I got on their nerves with a rude word, and specifically with those who run the call center, and they sent me to my alpha card from the drop card, they sent 1000 or 2000 rubles there, well, some pittance, 3000 I think or 2000, and they write, the drop is written in the application, and my money was stolen, it went to this card, I did nothing there, and that's it, and alpha blocks everything for me, I call there, write, drive, in general, the third time I wrote a statement there, they ask me to provide, they say, provide a statement from the card of the person who sent you the money, I don’t know who sent me, you know who, I don’t know at all, I didn’t expect this money, this is generally someone else’s money. Take this money away from me, unlock the cards. But in the end it didn't end there, my subscriber from inside Alfa-Bank helped me, that is, he unblocked me, I withdrew the money and that's it, I wrote a statement and disappeared. And they wrote to me on Bankira instead of getting into the situation at all. Did you catch the replies? They wrote to me on the same day, I had already withdrawn the money, they don't know about it yet and they write to me on Bankira, they know that they asked instead of helping me, they say, so now you provide us with the sources of origin of the funds, etc. Casher: Well, they don't read carefully, I understood the complaint, if you slightly distract yourself from the situation about the story about debit cards and go straight to Bankira, a very effective source, anyone who works with debit cards should know this, many know, if problems arise, they really complain there and help to pull out. Moreover, I know this for sure, because at the request of friends. I wrote positive reviews on Bankira, and I know for sure that the branch was awarded after my review.

Casher:
It was checked, that is, they call me from the bank, I confirm that it was there, yes, everything is cool, this and that. After some time, my friends call me, the branch, they wrote out a bonus. This really is. Come, we'll drink it up. Well, close people. That is, I understand that if a person wrote a review for the first time and immediately positively, it's all bullshit. If you have a normal account, you write sensibly and your text is human, the branch, you, in general, will write out a bonus.
At least, there will be a bonus-plus, that's for sure.

Which banks are in demand on the market?
Cash-out:
So, which banks are mostly in demand on the market? Home Credit, I don't know why, I was constantly blocked, that is, when I used it for some of my own purposes, but people like it. Promsvyazbank, Zhivuchiy Bank, VTB are very popular. Rosbank and Raiffeisenbank.
Rosbank used to be in great demand among cashers, because it allowed them to withdraw almost 3 million per month, the limit. The card had a very huge limit. And now, when working with debit cards, the so-called abuse resistance is very important.
That is, how quickly will they block cards in case of any, not even complaints, but incorrect work, because, having encountered, for example, when working with exchangers, you often get, well, you look at the statements, how the same exchangers work, you see, 40 thousand was deposited into an ATM, 40 thousand was withdrawn, 40 thousand was deposited, 40 thousand was withdrawn, the limit was chosen, 300 per month, not a single purchase in the store, no spending, the bank simply does not understand what we are talking about, and stupidly, if it does not understand, then it blocks the card.
In my case, this is a burden on stability not even when someone complains, but when in principle the person does not work correctly. That is, how long will the card last if the person does not work correctly. Well, the same exchangers. Usually you instruct the buyer, if there is an agreement about long-term work, then at least 1, 2, 3, 4 purchases per month in the store.

Pavlovich:
To create the illusion of ownership of a real person.

Casher:
The bank, issuing cards, still gets a small commission from the store on purchases, right, this is taking. And, accordingly, if it issued a card, and 300 thousand go through it, and the bank's income is zero, all the same, these smart systems are everywhere that will block all this.

How are banks different?
Pavlovich:
Well, that's it in a nutshell. And what about Sovcombank? There is simply a people's rating on banki.ru, yes, Tinkov is in second place, and for some reason Sovcombank is in first place, but I have never
used it, I know that among its co-owners there is a good person, this is what Mikhail Kuchment, who founded Hoff now, you know.

Casher:
If I roughly listed 10 banks, let's roughly add Sovcombank there, say, the difference is that there are banks where it is easy to get a card, there is a bank where it is difficult to get a card, Sovcombank is where you can't get it. Accordingly, it is easy to get. So-so.
That is, I have not seen any demand, usually it goes like this, they list cards, you need these, these, these, these, and can you use OFCOM bank? Go ahead. That's the way it is. It's hard to get alpha. That is, if a standard drop without two teeth, with a hangover, comes and wants to get...
Standard drop. Well, in general, yes, then in a large city with a population of over a million, a specialist is not a fool, and in conditional Achinsk in the Krasnoyarsk Territory, naturally, this will work for him, that is, questions may arise when receiving Sbergold, Alfa, VTB may definitely arise now, in other banks most likely they will not arise, but it happens that they impose insurance, that is, they do not give a person a card if he does not buy insurance for 4 thousand.
And I repeat, he is not one-eyed, but toothless, unshaven, well, what kind of insurance for 4, and it often makes no sense for a specialist to issue a card just like that, because it is not included in his work plan, he does not get a bonus or a salary from this, it is easier for him to check the box "indecent appearance, arrived drunk" in order to refuse immediately. That is, they refuse not because the person is suspicious, but because they do not want to bother, he does not take insurance, in general, it is clear that he is dubious.

Is it easy to issue a card?
Pavlovich:
Alfa, I opened cards with my cousin. He was 25 years old, well, I have gold, naturally, everything, yes. But they did not open gold for him, they told him, well, only classic. In general, they gave him classic, and imposed insurance on us. I say, we refuse insurance, we do not need it. There are some inexpensive ones, 700 rubles a year, something like that. But what do you think, I, at least you, at least you, next time come to them with a dictaphone, I come and the next day I withdraw money, although I clearly refused
all this, I had to call and cancel it, but Alpha is pushing it, yes even.

Casher:
I once bought insurance using such dubious methods, I needed a card, and on the third day, let's say, having fought, I broke my arm, I was glad about the insurance, but I They told me that it is valid from the 8th day, so in my case, even that didn't work.

Pavlovich:
I'm not talking about life and health insurance, but specifically insurance against fraud, that your money will be stolen from your card, and not like that.

Casher:
Maybe. But I want to say that again, I would divide the regions into two parts, if we take large cities in the European part, then there the banking regulations for receiving cards, for issuing statements and in general for any operations are observed more strictly, that is, your passport is examined by at least two specialists, they check and with the same card, again, being in a conditional other region west of Yekaterinburg, the regulations are practically not observed and everything goes to hell.
I have encountered this many times while traveling around the country.

Pavlovich:
I come to Sberbank to exchange currency, I have a passport, they leaf through my passport for three minutes under ultraviolet light, can you imagine? They look at each page, I think, my God, give me currency, I just came to exchange just well, when I brought fake legs, they won't let me leave the bank, why do they leaf through my passport for an hour is still a mystery to me, maybe you can explain this phenomenon in general.

Casher:
There is no regulation, the phenomenon of collect stop, if I re-glue the passport, I don’t remember whether you had a person who does this or not, it costs a minimum re-glue of 25 thousand, respectively, if I If I come with a passport re-glue, I can get access to almost everything that a person is, and there are millionaires. That is, I can get his money, reissue a card.
I can do a lot.

Pavlovich:
Well, in these cases, maybe yes, but when buying a sheepskin ...

Casher:
The minimum re-glue is 25, a normal re-glue costs more. But something, almost a book, which from scratch, in my opinion, from 250 thousand, but if a person’s contribution is 2-3-5-10 million, it’s worth the candle. Well, up to 250, of course, the passport turns out to be, in principle, new. But with re-glue, many people take risks. People are fools.

What does a drop get?
Pavlovich:
What does the drop get, who got a Sberbank Gold card, for example, and gave it away?

Casher:
For Gold, I'm looking at a price of about 5 thousand. For other cards, they get from a thousand to three. If there is an agreement that the card will last a long time, he gets some more pennies during the card's service life. Why is this done? Money periodically appears on the cards, so the drop needs to go to the bank, write an application to close the account, they give him this money, that is, he must be under control.
But this, of course, is a double-edged sword. The drop, the dropper, and the seller who sold these cards for use do not know what they were used for. And if the bank blocked the money, it could be either some really scary money or some triviality. Nobody knows. And so, going to the bank, he does not understand this, but he is taking a risk.
True, what is the risk? They will accept him at the bank, take him, if these are, say, computer crimes, to Department K, if something is theft, then to the ABEP, he will write an explanatory note, naturally, give up the dropper, the dropper will also write an explanatory note, well, as testimony, he will give an explanation. In principle, that will be the end of it, the dropper and the dropper will walk proudly around the area, we were taken to the police station, blah-blah-blah, but in fact, nothing terrible.
The cops will attach all this to the case and send it to the department from which the request was made that something went through the card. But since when you are accepted at the bank, no one knows how it will end. Outwardly it looks scary. In fact, it is one or two interrogations at the police.

What to do if the card is blocked?
Pavlovich:
And this Federal Law 115, my friends and business partners also have these cards constantly blocked, I have to write all sorts of receipts, a foreigner writes that yes, I lent this person or this woman money, they unblock it after that, but still. That's why even completely clean money is blocked by 115.

Casher:
It's easier to start using another bank. They don't have a common database, this is 100% information, no. That is, they blocked your VTB, you use another. I still have, I started too, having issued cards in my name at one time, I still have a large sum hanging on VTB from one hacker attack, for more than 5 years. Well, you know them, this is Lurg. That is, they sit, the trial is going on, and until there is a court verdict, there will be no ruling from the investigator, who constantly extends the blocking of the card to release the money.

A major scam in the history of cashing out.
Casher:
It was an attack on Garant Invest Bank in March 2016, they withdrew 1 billion 700 million, the attack was successful, but everything stopped for them, in the end, it was on the cards that they were accepted, as far as I remember,
either on May 31 or June 1, that is, two and a half months after the attack in Yekaterinburg. Now the investigation and trial have been going on for five years, well, just estimate the volume. In order to withdraw a billion seven hundred, how much needed to be prepared, to buy companies, that is, first they withdrew money to companies, and from the companies they fanned out on the card, and how many cards needed to be bought.
They raked out the market then. Well, if we calculate three hundred thousand on average per card, right? Calculate. One billion seven hundred, how much cards needed to be bought, even at 10 thousand, although back then they bought them at a much higher price.

Pavlovich:
Let's calculate now, I don't have such numbers on my calculator. Okay, let's calculate.

Casher:
For a million, three cards, in a billion, respectively, three thousand, well, that is, it turns out that about five thousand cards needed to be bought. I had about five thousand six hundred cards. For example, ten thousand per card. Well, five thousand six hundred is ten thousand, then almost sixty million. This was the cost part only for the cards for the attack, and what does it mean to buy cards, you must not only buy them, you must receive them, check them. Accordingly, you won't be able to check all of this from one device.
That is, it was a gigantic preparatory work, it was, in principle, successful, but it didn't work out. But it's just economics. Those who steal say that they also have certain costs. Often a person buys material, and his topic is dead. Well, the material, in general, is garbage. Well, or you can resell it further, on the same forums. He takes live cards on forums for a month, he will resell for a long time, because a person who sells cards on a forum must have a promoted account, a deposit. A person who Pavlovich:
A person who made a buck on a forum and came out with a bunch of cards, no one will buy anything from him. Everyone will think that he is a scammer, and this is really true. Either the cards will not be supplied, or the money will be stolen from them. No, this is impossible. You will not sell them. They are garbage.

What volume of cards are drained per month?
Pavlovich:
What volumes of cards do you sell, these debit cards for drops, on forums per month, let's say, how many thousands of pieces are sold?

Casher:
If you take the Darkmoney forum, there on average, in the section, There is a certain thread, the debit card section hangs about 20-30 so-called verified sellers with deposits.

Pavlovich:
Average deposits, like, so that they don't screw anyone there, right?

Casher:
Showing seriousness of intent and in case of any perturbations this deposit is sawed off by arbitration. The average deposit there is 300-500 thousand specifically for selling cards. Well, 300 thousand. I think, of course, no one gives these figures, but I talked on forums for a long time, including with sellers and buyers, I have this picture in my head. I think I'm right. I think that on the forum, the average sales of one seller are from 50 to 100 cards per month, and there was a serious seller, I don’t know for what reason, he died a year or two ago, his nickname was bankman, I think that his sales were from 500 to 1000 cards.
But what is selling cards on the forum? When you sell and sell, you get some customers who don’t need the forum. That is, sales are somewhere on the left, that is, they can be in a much larger volume. Let's imagine a situation, the same lurk contacts me, but I don’t know that it’s lurk.
And he names this volume. Will I be able to provide 5000 cards? How, it’s impossible. I’ll have to buy from all the other services. But they are not fools either, they communicate with each other, it will be clear that something is being prepared. Yes, I am basically saying, I am also sure that on the forum, if not the forum itself, I don’t know about this, but there must be special services. But they are present in any case, it’s no secret. I mean, to what extent are they smart enough to understand that some kind of action has started, and to what extent do they pass it on.
That is, understanding where, from where, what, how. Of course, I understand that a drop-off guy who ends up in the police becomes a freelance employee. Of course, he gives this information to the operative, but a conventional lieutenant or captain is unlikely to pass it on. That is, again, depending on where the drop-off guy ended up at the time, so that his current information that some kind of action has started would go somewhere further, so that it would be clear.
Well, I think that the police are still following the tracks, and not forward.

Pavlovich: So,
a drop-off guy becomes a walrus if he pays a drop-off guy five thousand rubles there and sells it for 25-30 rubles?

Casher:
No, no, no, I would say so. Theoretically, he can say, look, today we're issuing 8 bundle cards, I'll pay you 15 thousand for everything. For one drop? Yes, because we go one day, hand over 8 banks, apply, and in a few days we go, it turns out, you'll get 15 thousand for everything.
He will resell these cards for 40 thousand, but he will resell either directly, if he has a buyer, but often droppers are not present on forums, these are people, let's call them atsakhs, for them the Internet is not a swear word, but this is watching TikTok, they can only hear about forums somewhere. Accordingly, he goes to a further buyer and maybe even to a further buyer, something like that.

Who earns the most in the chain of drops?
Pavlovich:
Who earns the most in this link? The one who sells on the forums?

Casher:
A seller on forums, he registered it in his own name at the beginning of his career, in the name of his acquaintances, he raked in the closest circle. After some time, he got customers, but he raked in the circle and he is often forced to buy from strangers, focusing on such an indicator. I bought it there from Vasya from Norilsk, it wasn’t stolen , I will work with Vasya from Norilsk.
They will never see each other, but he already buys and resells cards, not knowing personally the people to whom it is registered, but that is, if he registered it in his own name earlier, he understood whether they would steal the money or not. It’s always a roulette here, something like that.

Stealing money from cards.
Pavlovich:
When buying such cards, there is a great risk, I had to take such cards, and I always asked myself the question, won’t they take my money from this card, because the owner of the card will come or open the application just like me, will see, there is money, and will drink it away, let’s say. What to do then, and how often do such situations occur?

Casher:
I'll start answering from a slightly different angle. What risks, besides the police, are there for a Drop? These risks were very dangerous. 2-3-5 years ago, now I've stopped specifically monitoring this, cards were taken into the minus, into overdraft. That is, somewhere in England, they would fill up cards at gas stations, for example, put 50 euros on it, and they would manage to fill up several times with 500 euros.
After some time, the card would have a minus of 40, 50, 500 thousand, 800 thousand, and that would be a disaster. That is, when demands came to the Drop to return such money, respectively, this included bailiffs and all-all-all, then he would run to the Dropman, and, in general, the Dropman's business could often end there.

How do they take cards into overdraft?
Pavlovich:
How do they take me into overdraft if I have a debit card, for example, at Sberbank, without overdraft?

Casher:
I would like to say that I would do it if I knew for sure and knew how, but I would not do it, it is very dangerous. I have studied this topic a lot, I do not know the technical details, I know people who have stolen, I only know in general terms, this is on buying cigarettes, this is on buying gasoline, Lithuanians did this, who traveled to England without a visa, buying cards in Russia, that's it.

Pavlovich: Casher: Yes, this is a separate market and often on the same Dark Money there is an advert I will pay a million rubles for information on how to take into overdraft, that is, someone will lay it all out on their fingers, that is, roughly speaking, it costs a lot of money. If you know how, you will definitely buy these cards and do it. Pavlovich: Overdraft, friends, if you don't know, it's when the card is sort of a debit card, that is, a credit card, of course, you can spend the money that you put on it yourself and the money that you can borrow from the bank, a debit card is when you spend only what you put on it before, but there are debit cards with overdraft, which allow you to spend your own money, and also get into a certain, most often small minus with the bank. Now we are not talking about debit cards with overdraft, but about debit cards without overdraft, which somehow manage to still get into the minus. Casher: Yes. In general, everything is very simple here. You need to buy expensively from a reliable seller. This is the first option. I know the criteria for a reliable seller, normal people know too. And the second, after all, issue a card on a scan, for an existing person who does not know that the card is issued to him or for a non-existent person who does not exist in principle, but the card is there. How and why do they open cards for non-existent people. Pavlovich: So you mean that in the case of drops it is unreliable, because they are toothless drunks, right? And they can... Casher: Toothless drunks will not steal, the dropper and the next seller are always in charge. Pavlovich: Okay, the dropper stole, let's say, we are not insured against this in any way. In no way. And the card that is obtained on the scan, that is, a real person does not come to the bank, just an employee of a corrupt bank opens a card using his documents, right? Casher: Yes, I will tell you about them separately now, there are some nuances there. As for thefts, let's consider a person who decided to start making easy money, stealing money from a card, organizing this business. So, he registers on duplicate, punch, darkman, flashing, on forums where he can, any nickname or in a Telegram channel.
But they put a card in the minus, which theoretically has no overdraft, by its type.
On forums, it is obvious that a person has just registered. If he is a newbie, he is visible. But if he has just registered, and operates with some terms, concepts, the question arises, where was he before? Where is your previous nickname? This is the first thing. Accordingly, I am leading to the fact that it is wildly difficult for a newbie to sell cards on the forum, that is, there must be some account with history.
Let's assume that an active newbie is promoting an account, getting into all the topics, discussing everything you want, he has a lot of messages, he acquires some kind of status, that he seems to be a reliable person, for example, for the sake of reliability he even makes a deposit of 10, 20, 50 thousand, that's how much he could collect because usually all these people are poor and so he managed to sell cards
, well, for example, he sold a bundle of issued ones, let's even take it for himself, for a friend, for example, 10 cards and earned on this, for example, 100 thousand rubles well, true, the friend needs to be paid, but so he sent the cards, issued them, he doesn't know what kind of money will be there, and most importantly, he doesn't know when the money will be there, that is, his life now turns into continuous monitoring of card buyers, they are, of course, slobs, but they do some basic things, disabling the application, that is, accordingly, basic security measures, of course, are taken, so what can a drop, a drop-maker or whoever decided to do this do, he begins call the bank he can get statements from the bank but, for example, on the second or third day he may get tired of it because the card can lie in storage for even a month, so they bought it - it lies there further, the person does not know how much money will be there, what if they bought it to spend 10 thousand every day? 10 thousand every day, it just does not accumulate there.
Further. There are unspoken rules that you can't keep money on such cards. They do. There are a lot of suckers, but you can't keep it. That is, the money came in, run to the ATM. Well, 15 minutes. That's it. Further. The card can work in another region, where there is a different time zone.
For example, cashers withdraw stolen money there, dirty, for example, at night, at two o'clock in the morning, respectively, you are sleeping, you receive a text message that on the card there, well, not a text message, but some kind of information from you that money has arrived there, you simply will not have time, that is, this is a separate such red tape, and the most important thing is that money has arrived somewhere, 40 thousand you sold 10 cards, on one of them 40 thousand you must understand that having stolen 40 thousand, the remaining 9 cards will most likely not be used. Accordingly, you must again register an account, download.
Accordingly, there are multi-catchers on all forums. In the sense that if you were blocked for theft once, you will most likely be caught a second time. That is, you must have a different device. You must write in a different language.

Pavlovich:
Well, IP, naturally, a different device.

Casher:
A lot of things. Because of the fingerprint browser. Yes, further. Send the cards to the same SDEC. If you send like Ivan Ivanov, you need to somehow arrange it differently next time - this is a separate hemorrhoidal work, but some people are just lucky, and there really are hits of 400 and 1800, they are very easy to disperse. I can tell you how to catch this money, well, how to steal it is not very difficult, if the task is to steal money - it will be done, but strategically it is not profitable.
Well, that is, strategically, of course, it is profitable to work honestly. But if you decide to do it, you can steal once, twice, ten times. I managed to do it many times. And we came to the most interesting part unnoticed. Well, what was my starting point? All these people are strangers to me. Well, that is, I understood perfectly well that there is a criminal element on the other side.
That is, if I had set the business to work honestly, I would have worked honestly, in my understanding. If I initially set up a business to take money, this is my job, that is, I somehow treated it lightly, I rudely do not take from an old lady and do not worry.

Theft from cash-out operators.
Cash-out operator:
Typical mistakes, well, for example, a person bought up Binbank cards, which was still alive.
Having received a statement, it was clear that approximately once every two weeks, once every 10 days, sums equivalent to 100 thousand rubles, 98-99, come there. Two Binbank cards were sold, unfortunately, there were only two, because there were more, they would have taken more. But it was clear that the person does not use SMS. That is, when you work competently, you go to the Tele2 operator, arrange a corporate event.
Why Tele2? Explain a little further. You arrange a corporate event, respectively, when you put money on one SIM card, they are distributed to all, you can receive details online of all SIM cards, you can also receive in call mode, very convenient, Tele2 is very convenient in this, and most importantly, Tele2 and Beeline, maybe something has changed in the last month or two or three, but Tele2 and Beeline, unlike MTS and Megafon, do not have a delay of a day after reissuing a SIM card.
That is, when you go to the operator and reissue SMS from the bank from short numbers do not reach Megafon and MTS, there is protection, and Beeline and Tele2 always reached, that is, if you steal by reissuing a SIM card, then Tele2 and Beeline approached this.
Well, when you receive the Tele2 details, you see that the person does not receive an SMS about the money being credited to him, but you see from the bank statement that the money was received, and you understand that he does not turn on the SIM card. After that, you, having sold the card, you rewrite all the card data, you turn on the computer, or you do not turn on the computer, you just put two phones with reissued SIM cards next to each other, wait for the money to come in, an SMS about the receipt,
You call the bank right away, block it, since the card is issued to a close person, after some time you go and pick it up.

Pavlovich:
Well, or you can transfer it to another card, make a purchase on the Internet, buy yourself a refrigerator there. You have a phone here.

Casher:
Yes! But you don’t know how quickly he’ll run to the ATM. I had such a hunting case. I can’t say that I’m proud, I’m not proud, but I was very pleased. The amount was ridiculous – 27, 29, 27 seconds and 37 thousand. I hunted for a month and a half, it was just hunting. The man withdrew money in America, and judging by how the SMS came, he also did not use the SIM card, that is, it was reissued, but it was clear how everything was happening.
That he approaches the ATM, I can already imagine how it all looked, and pressing the transfer from the electronic wallet to the card, This is him standing at the ATM. As soon as the money arrived within a minute, he withdrew it. I saw that this happens once every two weeks. I had the details of all these cards.
Naturally, I reissued the SIM cards. Accordingly, I had my laptop turned on. The card details were entered, that is, our digit card number, CVC, everything was entered. Moreover, 10 identical tabs were open, because it was unclear what amount would arrive.
It was just 20 thousand for the first transfer, so I knew that I had only half a minute to press, that is, withdraw to another card, I managed, well, that is, there was a hunt, that is, one time I was distracted for 15 minutes, at that moment 48 thousand came, I realized that I had to wait another two weeks, not that I needed this money, but it was the same thing that you sit on a hunt and wait, it was a lot of fun, I will say so, my maximum check was 442 thousand, but I was still more pleased when I caught these 37 in a month and a half of hunting.
Well, of course, there were other episodes during all this time. I will repeat once again, knowing the card number completely before the sale, you hammer it in, go in ... Well, like some kind of paysend, transfer go there. No, just card-card, transfer from card to card. All the data is open on your computer, you reissued the SIM card because the person does not use it. And as soon as he transferred money from the e-wallet to the bank card, an SMS arrived, I immediately transferred the leftover amount from Balda to the card, and in the SMS I immediately see the balance, how much is left.
I make a repeat transfer, take it. Well, this is one of the ways.

Security measures.
Casher:
That is, if you are the buyer of the card, insist that it be Megafon, MTS, and preferably a registered individual.
Security measures. Well, what other security measures do not store money, do not store money, immediately came, immediately withdrew or transferred to another card, in principle, do not store money, just not all businesses allow you to do this, for example, if a person is engaged in withdrawing money from electronic wallets, for example, stolen ones, not Qiwi, Yandex, took, blocked your money on Qiwi, on Yandex, nothing can be done, but there are craftsmen who, with the help of drawings and long correspondence, in general, prove to Qiwi and Yandex that give me my money, and this takes from a month to six months, and in general, they give it back, for this a card is made for a specific person, but the point is that when Kiev and Yandex give it back, you do not see, you cannot constantly monitor it, and often such money can be stored for a month. The person has done the work, he knows that it will be a plus, but just when it will be done - he does not know.
And in this case, the money lies. Further, exchangers. They can only work with those who have a good reputation. That is, the third and most important thing is to buy a card from someone with a good reputation.
This helps to avoid a crash by 99%, because the seller's reputation allows him to earn, well, I'm exaggerating, half a million a month for sure on such a well-established, fairly simple scheme, and it is clear that he will not steal a hundred, because he will get blocked on the forums, it is clear that everything will be strict with him, even if his money is stolen, he will reimburse it.

"Nothing will ever happen to a drop."
Casher:
And as if I were to digress a little, I will say my IMHO, nothing will ever happen to a drop. It is absolutely safe, I mean that there is no crime, cops stealing money is safe, usually a criminal who buys a card for some of his dark deeds is terribly afraid of everything, he sits in deep private and in general, these are his expenses, or something, 10, 20, 30 percent of his money is stolen anyway, this is 100%, or he buys from a person who has a reputation, he buys, say, Sberbank or Alfa for 30-35 thousand, and sometimes a person says that he sells cards with a guarantee, if they steal, I will reimburse you for everything, this card costs 50, you can keep money on these cards and do whatever you want, but you initially overpay, and this does not fit in your head, how can a card cost 50, I'll go and buy it on the forum for 5. Well, this is not even a card anymore, it's more of a service. Well, yes, yes. That is, a person with a reputation, who is a seller with three to five years of experience, with a good deposit, there is an understanding that he earns a lot.
It is clear that he will not steal. He can register another account and steal from it, as a side income. But in this case, he will not steal.

How much do droppers steal from cards?
Pavlovich:
But in general, on the market, let's say, a thousand cards were sold by these different droppers with a reputation, from average and expensive cards and cheap ones. So I bought myself a thousand cards from different sellers for my various needs. From how many cards will drops or droppers steal from me in total? Plus or minus.

Casher:
From reliable cards, I think one 10% again from the reliability of the buyer. Seller. Seller, pardon. And if you bought from the first comers or from those who have been registered there for less than a year, no less than 50, or even 90 percent. So what's the point of such unverified ones and so on in general? Well, a stingy person pays twice, a stupid person pays three times, a sucker pays always, this is standard. That is, many live for today, and there really is a hunting interest in this.
Why I did it, I can't even explain now. I understand perfectly well that working honestly is better. But for some reason I entered the market with this setup, I will say, I liked it. But still, in any case, it is a road to nowhere. I do not recommend it, although it is completely unpunished.

How are cards registered on scans?
Pavlovich:
Cards that open on scans, that is, if with a drop, of course, he went, albeit without a tooth, and anyone there opened, albeit not Gold, but Classic, yes, okay, he opened, there is an individual. How is it somehow decided on scans, that is, you need some corrupt employee of yours, Tinkov, for example, who brings them to your home. Tinkov is difficult. But you just need to take pictures there.

Casher:
T-Bank is difficult. There is a great demand for Tinkov, I don’t even know if the problem has been solved now or not. And by the way, I am sure that even if they find someone with Tinkov, the person will quickly get caught. I have a clear understanding that Tinkov will not let this work for long. But this is again my opinion. Cards for scans are possible. Sberbank and Alfa are very expensive.
The reason is that such cards are issued by two employees, that is, when issuing cards, there are two employees, one is a teller, the second is older, accordingly, we are talking about corruption not of one person, but of several, that is, stricter regulations. So, mainly cards for scans are used.
These are Halva, HomeCreditBank, Rosselkhozbank, they offer Raiffeisen, they offer Vostochny, there was Promsvyaz, and in general, up to 10 banks periodically appear at sellers, but usually this stable work does not last long. I will explain why. If the seller of cards on the forum does not filter buyers, then in the end some bad operation takes place on the card, and accordingly, when the police arrive to the person, he will see that either there is no address at all, or the person is not in the know, everything is twisted.
And theoretically, I mean purely theoretically, all cards issued in this branch should be blocked. Of course, this does not happen, usually the employee is quietly fired, well, with an internal black mark, but fired. So, on average, there are such cards, well, there, Bank, again, Zenit, then Dom RF, I bought it myself, I will not say the cities, but I kind of know where who is corrupt.
Of course, the employees get caught, often due to the stupidity of the seller-reseller, a questionnaire comes, where there is even a signature of this employee. Well, that is, I found them on social networks, I saw her there pregnant with children, well ... You can look in the eye of God.
Yes. Link in the description. Yes, I am basically saying that, in general.

Three categories of cards issued on scans.
Casher:
Cards on scans are divided into two categories. The first - for a person who does not suspect that the card is issued to him. What is good about this method? It is good in every way. The main thing is that there is no such bank branch in the city where this person lives. The second option is cards on drawn scans. That is, you receive copies of passports, which, if you enter them on the Internet, check the passport for validity, shows that it is scanned, that it is valid.
But in fact, they rearrange the series and number. That is, in short, the last name is a little, the passport is basically scanned as valid, but this person does not exist, he is fictitious, so the minus of cards on a scan is generally one big one in case the money is blocked there, then they write
on forums that it is impossible to get it out, in fact, it is possible but difficult, just when selling cards, they are sold, you usually say you will not get such money out, then he can contact, say, me, this money can be got out, not right away, but it is possible. But cards that are on scans for a living existing person, well, you most likely will not even get them out, because if an employee or someone goes to this in order to get it out, this, in general, is theft.
Someday a person will get wind of this, find out and say, 300, 400 or however many thousand rubles were stolen from my account. This means that these cards are sold mainly under white schemes. That is, it is clear that these people do not know each other on the Internet, we are still talking about some minimal reputation, the adequacy of which is checked in an elementary correspondence in a conversation.
These cards are quite tenacious, especially if you still dilute them with some store payments. Here is an instruction that is sure to come.

Pavlovich:
And does it matter whether I buy on the Internet or in real life.

Casher:
It doesn't matter in the store, any card should be spent somewhere in the store, but let's say there are cash-out services, which are present on the Internet in quite a large number of them, there are about 50 with deposits, they need this card for one operation, that is, they gave him this stolen money, and at night the cash-out team withdrew this money and, in principle, this card can no longer be used.
There is an Abuza complaint on it. That is, it is simply thrown away. Cash-out services? No need for such cards. They are disposable. Cards for scans are more likely for stable, white work. Something like that. Who needs this for the long term? You can also steal money from them. I can do it, I did it. I love it. All that remains is to add.

Speaker?:
Well...

Casher:
I did it, so if you expand the question somehow, I will answer.

What is the current cash-out percentage?
Pavlovich:
And what is the current cash-out percentage? It's just that when I encountered all this white cashing out, well, and did it for my friends, there was an opportunity, I made some reasonable sums for free for companies, it was not difficult for me. But at that time the percentage of cashing out was 10, naturally it went up on New Year's Eve, there it could be 12, there up to 15. Even now, guys from the forums tell me from the outside that generally some crazy percentages for white cashing out and 20 and 30 can be achieved.
Has it really increased?

Casher:
I am not connected with white cashing out, but communicating with different people in this topic, I still operate with 12-15% for white cashing out. But my topic is still not white, it's different there. Well, okay, in other topics. Dirty 20-30. 20-30. 20-30. But, for example, let's just calculate the mathematics, the amount of theft of a million. So, the cashing service takes 25% for the work, that is, the cashing service's earnings are 250 thousand.
There are consumables. For this amount, he must spend several cards to buy and pay for the work of people who must quickly withdraw money from an ATM at a low start. And he must also pay for advertising on the forum, he must also constantly update the material, this million does not always come in, that is, he came in, and it was blocked.
And here there are already personal agreements, who pays whom, because the filler says, sorry, I sent a million, and you say that he got on you. That is, and here too, somehow you want to maintain a relationship with someone, a constant relationship with the filler, he also bears some losses. I think that the net profit of a cash-out service is 10-15 percent, but if you are being poured 2-3 million every day, and all this smoothly transfers to the cash-out service, when the thief stole from a commercial company, that is, broke into the chief accountant's computer and scattered the money.
Let's move on to discussing, for example, call centers that call pensioners and other people. And they simply transfer money. It so happened that there is not enough capacity for cash-out services, plus there is not enough constant online presence, and call centers, in general, switched to the fact that they themselves began to buy up these cards.
And on the forums in 2019, in 2018, such a trend appeared, deposits increased very sharply, well, that is, a person comes in, just registers and suddenly puts 500 thousand rubles into his account and immediately places an ad to buy cards, and he begins to
transfer buy cards of such and such banks, some posted 25 banks at once and wrote that any amount can be for one drop, you start counting and you understand that a person wants to buy, for example, 500 cards, there are conditionally 5, 10, 15 thousand, it doesn't matter, but you understand the volume and think where, for what.

Call centers and their volumes.
Casher:
You understand that there are no significant crashes now, I mean hacker thefts, and purely logically you understand that this is the market of these call centers that are called names, and you understand their volume.
The volume of work of call centers can be understood even by the number of cards bought. That is, how much was bought, multiply by 100, 150 thousand, the average withdrawal, the average fraud check on the card, and you understand, they do not know, having got to the pensioner, how much there will be. And there is another nuance - a huge amount of this money stands, not reaching anyone.
Unfortunately, our suckers do not know this. I had this living example before my eyes, i.e. when they contacted me about one of my side activities, they showed me this so-and-so thousand on a so-and-so bank, by the way, and this so-and-so thousand, is it possible to withdraw, well, that is, some sucker got scammed for 950 thousand,
the money went to a card for withdrawal to a so-and-so bank, but it so happened that the call center, simply not knowing what the transfer would be, gave a so-and-so bank, there is a withdrawal limit of maybe 100, 200, 300, I don’t know exactly what card it was. But 950 went there and an instant log was caught. That is, now a blocked card for drops for 950 thousand is lying in a so-and-so bank. The sucker contacted the police, there is some kind of case somewhere there.
The police don’t tell him that there is blocked money there. The bank doesn’t say this either. And if the so-called drop goes to receive this money, But, in general, it turns out that he admits that he stole it. He also doesn’t know that it is there. Well, that's a small hodgepodge. They just hang and that's it. Yes, that is, the call center... Ultimately, they will go to Sovcombank through passwords. I can't say that.

Is it possible to return the blocked money?
Casher:
I don't know the fate of this blocked money. I know that it won't be possible to get it back in a conditionally legal way, for example, by a left-wing court order. Where there is a criminal case, banks don't give back such money. Simply blocked money, yes, is given back by court orders, by commission, by labor disputes, what can be obtained in magistrates' courts, it's not easy, but it is possible, that is, you just need to know how. That is, the huge amount of money that call centers stole, in principle, does not reach the swindlers, it remains in the blocked accounts.

Pavlovich:
And how much percent?

Casher:
I don't know. If you look at the history of the 40th century, a huge number of soldiers of the Soviet army died during the Great Patriotic War, but they received a salary every month. And this salary is still in Sberbank, in their accounts. Sberbank is not obliged to notify and look for relatives.
That is, a person died, some salary in our money is still lying there, hanging, and these accounts exist, they are not in demand.

What does sending cards look like?
Pavlovich:
There is such a thing. What does sending cards look like? At one time, they sent me fake cards, Visa Master for my carding activities from Hong Kong and Shenzhen simply to a DVD player. They buy a DVD player for about 70 dollars, stuff it with cards, or it was convenient to find small computer music speakers.
But now for cashing we do not buy in such large batches, that is, it turns out like in envelopes by mail, with DEK, couriers, how is this done?

Casher:
The most common courier with DEK, the most common. True, now they have tightened the sending of cards, that is, if you come to the branch with DEK, you open the package, she looks. That is, put some kind of magazine and that's it, or in a book. Yes, that's what I meant, that now you can't send an unprepared parcel. Theoretically, you can call a courier, and a courier from SDEK has a plan of 30-40 parcels a day, and if he came to meet you, and suddenly something went wrong, he understands that he will have to come back to you again for free.
And often, he, in general, turns a blind eye, i.e. sending cards means calling a courier somewhere. But, accordingly, you still need to do some basic packaging that these are not cards. SDEK says that theoretically you can send cards without a balance, but for this you need a certificate from the bank that they are without a balance.
Therefore, it is easier to disguise them as something else and send them. There were experiments with sending Russian Post - it did not arrive. Russian Post does not deliver either cards or SIM cards. It did not arrive, including like sunflower seeds, when you send SIM cards - it does not arrive. In general, now in this, let's call it, gray, near-criminal business, where something is tied to sending, to remote receipt, things are becoming more and more stringent.
Because I am interested in many things, I monitor how the cigarette market is doing. And I know that only now one transport company allows sending these fake cigarettes. And frankly speaking, I don’t know what will happen when this loophole is closed.

Pavlovich:
Well, let me guess. Look, SDEK, Delovye Linii, Zheldor-Ekspeditsiya, DPD and Vozovoz. No. No? Damn, that’s weird. I also communicate with these bigwigs of the cigarette market, I just saw what they send. Russian Post was also there and... Well, that’s it, if none of those are there, then some new one has appeared on the market.
Not very new, they are also constantly forced to test. Oh, and I missed one. It’s called JTD. The idea is correct in terms of three letters, but not that. I get it. So UPS. UPS, DHL. I’m talking about the KIT transport company now. I'm already joking, because DHL or UPS, send a letter, you'll pay $200 for a letter.

About the cigarette business.
Casher:
Well, the cigarette market, again, divides the country into east and west, these cigarettes are in the east, here you won't sell them to anyone. You just won't sell them. You won't be able to sell them, you won't have the physical opportunity, you'll just pester people, you won't sell them.
I saw the interview, and the most important thing is, I kind of know this market well, only on the outside everything is very sweet, But in fact, they even conduct training materials on how to open a cigarette business, 80% of the information, wow, I'm signing up for it, but they missed these 20, for which there will be hell, nothing good. That is, if you live outside of Yekaterinburg, yes, it makes sense to do it, if you live, well, I'm not talking about Moscow-St. Petersburg, but somewhere in the central part of Russia, I categorically do not recommend it.
You'll fly away with large sums. That is, you'll simply waste your time, this is again my opinion.

"Drug money is white money."
Pavlovich:
The most obvious such transactions with cards, are they drugs, hydras?

Casher:
No, I'll say something paradoxical now, many may disagree with me, but drug money is conditionally white money.

Pavlovich:
Because they go from one private person to another?

Casher:
They are not stolen, there are no statements from the police about them, this is white money, that is, if there is a scam on Avito, and anywhere, there will definitely be a statement, well, not necessarily, there one out of ten people will write, but this is already a statement, this is already gray money, that is, when they come for you, well, on the trail of a tail, this, say, a month and a half, well, it will be, this is gray.

Pavlovich:
A matter of time.

Casher:
Yes, and in drug trafficking there are no statements, that is, this is white money.

Pavlovich:
Well, unless someone writes, yes, he bought drugs and stashed them, and they do happen and are sure. Do you know such cases? I was just sitting in Belarus with one guy, he was essentially cashing out, WebMoney and so on, according to the law, an illegal financial transaction. And he cashed out to someone, to another friend of mine, the money was blocked, well, regardless of his reason, he was slow to return it, they hacked him, essentially they took his money, they didn’t take more.
That is, they stole from him only what he owed, he went and wrote a statement to the Belarusian police, as a result, they both went to jail, so that even without doing illegal transactions, they sometimes write a statement, I would like.

Casher:
To add a little about the Nosok cards, on one important point, addendum, look, in principle, there is a high demand for them, sometimes even huge, but the department issues a certain number of cards per month, but that’s how it turned out. Well, for example, it issues 50 per month.
Accordingly, if suddenly there is an abnormal reissue, it is obvious, that is, any department can issue roughly 10-20 cards, especially since there are a lot of specialists in the department, and if a hypothetical specialist Ivanova suddenly began to issue cards in larger volumes, it is visible. What does this mean? Well, she was bribed. Here she has a salary of forty and issued 10 cards, but she will be paid only 2-3 thousand for the card, namely the specialist. 3 thousand, I think, is even the limit.
That is, theoretically, she is always greedy to issue more, and, in general, this is where the unreliability lies. Well, that is, unreliable ones from this Noskan card do not live for a long time, that is, again, everything depends on the seller who says, you know, I have been selling this conditional Sovkom bank for a year, everything is fine, yes, you can take it, it means he is healthy, he sells normally, but then someone came up with cards, you don’t know, he issued 50 more SB banks, he is already on his way, that’s the nuance.

What will happen to the cash-out market?
Pavlovich:
But now we basically found out that the volume there is plus or minus there with those that we cannot count, let there be 5 thousand cards sold a month before the PSNG prospects of this market. It’s just that now they are increasingly blocking this 115th and the state is already turning on monitoring everywhere, it wants to see our income so that taxes do not go away from it, well, from the point of view of the state it is logical.
That is, what will happen to this market of cards for drops in the near future, in your opinion?

Casher:
My forecast is very simple enough, I may be mistaken, but in my opinion there is criminal or administrative liability for selling a card in Ukraine, in my opinion there is. So, if we introduce such liability, it will kill call centers immediately. That is, now, when TV is trumpeting everywhere that call centers have fleeced yet another poor person, the problem is solved simply - introducing criminal liability for selling a card.
People will not have such a large amount of material at once. That's it, the market will die. I think that our Prime Minister Mishustin, working in the tax service, suppressed cashing out, well, that is, he simply brought in... Well, this white cashing out... Yes, in accordance. Accordingly, he is now in power, he is now sort of busy, and, in principle, regulating the expenses of individuals and the income of individuals is a matter of the next year or two.
And as soon as some kind of drop comes into the account, pay by card, 2 million went through there, 260 thousand taxes from you, well, report what for the money, on this, in general, the story may end. I understand that we are Russians, that we will find a way out.
What it will be, I do not know, I have no idea yet. Well, whether they will somehow split the payments, there, up to 600 thousand a year, I cannot say. But the issue is squandering, yes, yes, it is happening. What the solution will be, I do not know yet. It is not me who will find a solution, that is what I am talking about. But there will be a way out, here.

How to protect yourself with a drop card in your hands?
Pavlovich:
And the last question, if you got this card from a drop, how to protect yourself as much as possible. You already said not to keep money on it and then connect it.

Casher:
The card is only for withdrawing money.

Pavlovich:
Connect from a mobile application. But then you yourself will not be able to see the balance and so on.

Casher:
I think that it is impossible to protect a card from a drop. Only if you bought a person with a reputation. You can't. No. Here the person got stuck, got into debt, got sick. I now have a partner at work. In principle, I have already moved away from card business for some time. But he really... He really needed them.
And I scooped up all the remains of mine from my friends, I needed reliable ones, sold the cards expensively, for example, I sold Alpha for 50 thousand, this is very good money, but I really knew that everything would be exactly not enough for him, and I had to turn to, let's call it that, to the criminal element who is now sitting on the suck, well, that is, they have no money at all, of course, they promised a lot of things, well, and I told my partner
that I take, in general, from people whom I do not know, but I take and from me personally for the first time in my life they stole, more precisely, they stole from my partner, he was warned, but they stole 130 thousand for him, this is not very much money, literally the next day we were already discussing other problems, but for his business he was warned how this does not work if a fraction decided to steal, he will steal the question. The question is that he really does not know how much money will be there.
And when. That is, he can steal 3 thousand. That is, this is random, he will steal, he will not steal, a lot, a little there. He will steal it. That is, either you bought it from a reliable seller, say from the Siberian region, it's one conversation, if you bought it on the Internet he will steal it. The question is, will you manage to run before him. If you have a one-time operation, then in principle you shouldn't worry.
But if you have a stable inflow of money, but I repeat, electronic exchangers, they have 2-3 thousand cards for work, that is, they found a large number of reliable people, they found, they rather periodically have money stop.

Write your comments and questions about cashing in the comments.
Pavlovich:
But this is, as they say, a completely different story, and here, guys, your questions, comments on cashing and everything else in the comments under the topic. Hugs, share the interview with your friends. That's it, bye.

 

[hackito]

Thanks