Cloned Boy
Professional
- Messages
- 1,087
- Reaction score
- 837
- Points
- 113
Sergey Pavlovich talks to a masked man who used to be involved in cashing out.
Enjoy reading!
Contents:
Introduction
Pavlovich:
Friends, hello, new interviews and today we are talking with a guest in a mask, as you can see, we are talking about white cashing out, we are talking just a little bit, because the topic is bottomless, you can invite 10 heroes for this interview, each will find some aspect of their own in this and tell, but here is a little bit today about white cashing out.
White cashing out, if you do not understand, then this is when, for example, some company, for example, opens a non-cash account from its current account, they need to receive, accordingly, cash, preferably already some kind of laundered, yes, according to the documents, as I understand it, correctly conducted, so that the tax authorities do not fool their brains and all that stuff.
Casher:
Yes, that's right.
How did you get into this field
Pavlovich:
And how did you get into this business and how long have you been involved in it?
Casher:
Yes, how it all purely by accident got into this business.
Pavlovich:
Well, I don't think that everyone gets there purely by accident, someone is 100% on purpose.
Casher:
Well, it all happened by accident, because I needed money, and I decided to open a business, and I needed money to open a business. And then it so happened that a person, some person on VKontakte or Odnoklassniki, it doesn't matter. He wrote, suggested, like, there is such a topic. And I thought about it, figured it out and decided, well, I can try. At that moment, I did not realize what the consequences could be, but I decided to try.
To do this, I needed to open an individual entrepreneur in my name and open several legal and FIS accounts. I was then a drop, again, without thinking, got there and did not know that a drop is, so to speak, the lowest link in this whole sphere. And as a result, after opening an individual entrepreneur, legal and physical accounts, after 5-6 days the first money was poured into me, there the amount of the poured was about 7-8 million, and this is the money I needed to withdraw.
My percentage of withdrawals was, I don't remember, at the time when I was a drop, it was about 0.4% of the withdrawal amount, and the average withdrawal amount for me was somewhere around 2-3 million, because, for example, when an amount of about 8-7 million is deposited into your, so to speak, legal account, this was the average
deposit amount, then it is deposited into several physical accounts.
And so, gradually, you have to withdraw this money. Then, at that time, cashing out felt quite good and allowed huge amounts of money to be withdrawn and transferred through accounts. So to speak, at that time, not like now.
Your attitude to responsibility for this type of activity, how long did
Pavlovich work:
Well, didn't you think about it? Well, first of all, you needed some papers. You had to show, let's say, that you are conducting some kind of activity and this was calculated for your services or for some goods.
And in general, have you thought about the responsibility for this? They come to you and say that you have received a huge sum of money, please pay taxes on it and so on. You are an individual entrepreneur.
Casher:
No, everything was decided for this, those people who poured money into my name, they decided all these issues, all sorts of documentation, tax reporting, where I was from and where this money was coming from. I just needed to come to the bank and withdraw some money. Naturally, I worked for quite a long time, because my accounts existed for about 2-3 weeks. During this time, I withdrew...
Pavlovich:
That's considered a long time, right?
Casher:
Yes, at that time, if we take today's realities, then according to today's realities, it's a very long time, I think, my stomach.
Pavlovich:
2-3 weeks.
Casher:
Yes, that's right. During that time, about 35 million was transferred through me. So, I withdrew all this money.
How much did you earn, promotion in the hierarchy
Pavlovich:
Well, you earned there, if 0.4%, well, there, 1150 rubles in total.
Casher:
Yes, yes, yes. That is, I don’t remember how much I counted, because depending on the bank, depending on the account, the amount was constantly jumping, and there were some like that... In general, yes, somewhere about plus or minus that’s how I earned from myself.
Pavlovich:
Well, some money, in fact, is extremely ridiculous. That is, in comparison with what they probably had, that is, your, so to speak, bosses, who poured money on you, everyone.
Casher:
Yes, but I simply did not understand it at that moment. It was like there was an awareness that, yes, indeed, they were earning a lot, but there was no awareness that I was, like, the lowest link. That’s how it happened.
Pavlovich:
And when and how did this epiphany descend upon you?
Obnalshchik:
The epiphany happened when, for example, they themselves offered me, so to speak, back and forth, somehow it happened that they themselves offered me to become, so to speak, one level higher. A dropper. A dropper, yes. That's it. But in any case, besides just bringing in droppers, I was also involved in leading from these droppers, because I had gotten a pretty good grasp of this whole topic and understood in general what was what, how to move forward.
Pavlovich:
Well, I experienced it myself.
How I looked for droppers, what kind of contingent
Obnalshchik:
That's right. And I naturally looked for droppers, these were some people, alcoholics, to be honest, and people with drug addictions. It was easiest to persuade them, to join them. A normal, adequate person had to be explained, persuaded, and so on.
Pavlovich:
Well, of course, concerns related to the tax office and so on.
Responsibilities of a dropper
Obnalshchik:
All of this. But still, it was quite easy to persuade alcoholics and drug addicts. I was, so to speak, quite honest in my work, I told people that I don’t know what the consequences might be, but there might be consequences. But I said, like, look, I’ve worked, I don’t have any consequences. Like, everything’s ok, but you, like... I’m not you, you might have some consequences. That’s it. With these people, that I not only just brought him to the company, so to speak, some kind of OOO “Obnal”. That’s it. And...
Pavlovich:
OOO “Obnal”. Yes.
Opening legal accounts in banks, the specifics of working with banks
Obnalshchik:
That’s it. My responsibilities also included opening legal accounts, individual accounts and opening individual entrepreneurs and generally maintaining all the documentation. It was quite difficult, for example, to open legal accounts in banks. Individual accounts were opened right at the snap of a finger, that is, they were opened right away. There were no problems with that. The problems were specifically with legal accounts. Because, for example, when a person comes, some alcoholic or drug addict, he needs to come up with a story, why he needs this legal account at all.
And for each person I came up with a story about their business, what they do. I thought it out down to the smallest detail, because when a bank employee from the legal department opens a legal account for you, some kind of interrogation takes place.
Pavlovich:
But he is not a fool in any case.
Casher:
Yes, yes, yes. That he more or less understands what this account can be used for. Well, I prepared people well enough and they opened them for people.
Pavlovich:
But you prepared them, and they themselves did not act stupid?
Casher:
I was in touch with them. That is, I told them, like, if there are any questions, say that I did not hear the questions well, and just write to me there, drag out time until I answer this question correctly. My people opened accounts quite often. The most popular banks for opening accounts were Sberbank, I think Binbank. And then there was, yes, also. I think it no longer exists.
Pavlovich:
Well, it was subject to rehabilitation, yes.
Casher:
Exactly. And then there was Alfa. Alfa was one of the most difficult banks for opening accounts, Yura specifically, because you could transfer a fairly large amount of money to Alfa, but Alfa did not open accounts for everyone. Because there was even such a thing when, for example, a bank employee said, everything is okay, I prepared the documentation, and then they call the person and ask very specific questions, for example, how much, approximately, is your net profit
, do you want to earn, where is your office located, your type of activity, what counterparties, maybe there are, maybe some are planned, and Alfa-Bank specifically arranged such an interrogation with such questions.
Pavlovich:
Well, I just opened one of my companies in Tinkoff, and they even came to my office, that is, they came, took pictures, walked around here, and what will you have here, and what is this, what are you doing, apparently Tinkoff just doesn’t have physical offices and I can’t go there, so they come and look themselves, but for us it went without a hitch, they see, there is a legal address, there is an office, employees are sitting, the company is operating, but I doubt that Tinkoff would open it now for a half-homeless, half-drunkard, it seems to me that the screws have been tightened even more compared to that time.
Casher:
Well, as far as I know, before, when I was doing this 4 years ago, Tinkoff Bank was quite like that, quite loyal, it didn’t give a damn at all, it doesn’t take this activity seriously at all now.
Pavlovich:
I think you’ve all heard about the God’s eye bot on Telegram. I have a whole separate issue dedicated to it, watch it at the link, which in a matter of seconds finds any information available in open Internet sources about your offender, debtor or just a girl you like. The search is conducted by phone number, email, full name or car number. Profiles on Instagram, VKontakte and other social networks and messengers.
You can also very quickly find a person by photo, check the entire set of information by his IP address or bitcoin wallet. It works for almost all countries, but the bot has the most information on citizens of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan. True, there is a problem. God's Eye is constantly being removed from Telegram, so the working link is in the description under the video. Yes, and you can also submit a request to remove information about you from the bot's results, which will be satisfied as quickly as possible. Link in the description.
Number of refusals to open accounts
Pavlovich:
What percentage of refusals were there? For example, there are 100 people, let's take it as 100 percent, 100 people went to the banks, yes, and all the banks refused? How many people? Or were there none? At least one bank will open it anyway.
Casher:
There were such people, what's the joke, when, for example, it happens that, for example, they opened an account for a person, I had such a person who was extremely stupid, his speech was extremely incoherent, he could hardly speak, they somehow opened an account for him, and then a decision was made with him that they cannot interact with him at all, because it happens that, for example, they pour money into an account, into a legal account, and it happens that the account is immediately blocked under 115.
For unexplained reasons. And this person must come to the bank, somehow talk to the administrator or manager there.
Pavlovich:
Explain the sources of the funds and so on.
Casher:
Yes, yes, yes, that's how to explain all this. And in general it was unrealistic to simply explain that, like and so on, because he stuttered as much as possible. And that's how it was. That is, we decided not to use it.
How much did you pay the droppers, your income
Pavlovich:
How much did you pay them? The same as you did at the time, there 0.4%?
Casher:
No, I paid them somewhere around 0.2%. 0.2 in general. Yes.
Pavlovich:
And your marginality and your activity amounted to how much did you receive, already now, organizing companies there and e-mailers for your higher-up bosses?
Casher:
My income was approximately, when I worked, when I was a dropper, that is, it had already grown 1-1.2 depending on the cases and simply, so to speak, on the exchange rate, that's it.
Pavlovich:
Well, you gave them 0.2, and you had up to 1% left there, you basically didn't have any.
Casher:
Yes, I had it somewhere. Well, as I had already calculated at that time, I have 1% quite well, because there were several people in the share. Because if, for example, the average cashing rate in Moscow at that time was somewhere around 8-9%, then, for example, there were several people, for example, about 3-4%. Pavlovich
:
Well, give everyone a percentage, it turns out that from the very top, taking into account overhead costs and so on, 3 percent can remain.
Casher:
Yes, yes, yes. That is, my income was quite good, what I do, as it were, I get practically quite well.
Your problems with the tax office
Pavlovich:
And the cases when these mules of yours were held accountable, well, for you, you say, everything went smoothly and until now no one has bothered you for taxes or anything, right?
Casher:
No, unfortunately, they pulled me in, because it turned out that one drop that worked, well, such a situation happened to him that….
Pavlovich:
I'm specifically talking about your situation now, the money that was there, plus or minus 35 million, was driven to you at the time. That is, no one bothered you about this issue, right?
Casher:
No, they did. That's why too. That is, they specifically bothered me about this issue. At first, they bothered me, so to speak, only two or three months later. They bothered me. The tax authorities? Yes, the tax authorities bothered me. That's it. How did the situation happen there? About the fact that there are such people there, on whom they simply drop the VAT. That's it.
And it so happened that the person, they dropped the VAT on him, he refused all of this, and, accordingly, according to some schemes, somehow it all happened like this, it all transferred to me along the chain, because I had some kind of transactions with him according to the documents.
Pavlovich:
And what called you to the tax office?
Cash-out:
How did it start? I just got regular letters. Letters of happiness. Yes, letters of happiness. They came and said that you are coming for questioning, we will just talk to you. But I, naturally, ignored them, I thought that it was okay, they were like telling me, don’t worry, just don’t go, and that’s it, nothing will happen. Then it turned out that the tax authorities came to see me with a summons. I was quite surprised because the tax authorities invite me for questioning, and the police arrive.
Naturally, I was hiding, I didn’t open the door, and at some point they just called me. I think I didn’t show up for questioning three times. If you don’t show up for questioning three or two times, then you are summoned with a summons. They came to see me with a summons several times, but I still kept hiding, I didn’t open the door for them. Like, I wasn’t home. They couldn’t catch me. And at some point they found my phone number, called and said, like, so and so, come, we'll sort everything out amicably.
If you want this to end amicably.
Pavlovich:
It was the tax office, right?
Casher:
Yes, it was the tax office that called me. It's quite surprising that they approached this issue. Because, as far as I know, many people there had specific problems. That's it.
Pavlovich:
And you came there?
Casher:
Yes, I came there. I had some kind of interrogation. Were you worried? Not that I was worried. Actually, not even that. Because I had one, they gave me a form, an interrogation report and some forms. There were about 60-70 questions that I had to answer about my activities.
What I was doing, where the money was coming from, like, did I have any settlements with these companies and so on, it turned out that I was a smart drop and figured out this whole topic and like asked these guys for documentation on me, and so, during the interrogation, I simply relied on this documentation and answered. The tax authorities just couldn’t... Get close to me. Yes, get close. And they just left me in the office somewhere on duty and that’s it, and that is, they went off somewhere to a meeting.
In the end, they then took me up to some other office, there were probably about 15 people at some kind of round table. And there were already police officers there with me, what ranks, I don’t know. They just told me that they were in civilian clothes. Maybe they scared me, maybe not. And in the end, they started talking to me seriously. That is, they were a little stuck on me, they tried to put some pressure on me somehow. But it was quite, so to speak, a light interrogation.
That is, they didn't threaten me there, they didn't try to beat me up, break me, and so on. Everything was pretty light.
Pavlovich:
Well, and you repeated there what, in principle, yes, and the same thing.
Casher:
Yes, that is, I repeated the same thing, the same thing. They tried to ask me a question, the same question from different angles, that's it, every time. Each time I answer the same question several times. And in the end, I just, I probably spent about two hours fending off these questions from them. And at some point, one of these people, who was just sitting quietly on the sidelines, asks me, he just says, well, you now have a debt of 2.8 million on DSVS.
As you say, that you were engaged in your business activities, I think that's what it's called, then be so kind as to pay these 2.8 million. And that's it, a minute of silence, I'm so out of it, I don't know what to do. And in the end I say, no, it wasn't me who was doing all this. Naturally, they all laughed at this.
Pavlovich:
But they already understood.
Casher:
Yes, they are wonderful, but they are stupid. People are not stupid, they understand all this perfectly well. They laughed at the fact that I immediately took my words back. And they gave me some kind of paper about writing from the heart, so to speak.
Pavlovich:
I am a drop. I don't know whose money was.
Casher:
That's right. I don't know if I can tell you this or not, but the employees simply acted extremely loyally towards me, because Because they gave me a paper and said to write from the heart. Not even from the heart, but simply explanatory, so that we could pass your documents on to higher authorities. And in the end, under their guidance, I wrote the papers. Naturally, I didn't rat anyone out, didn't tell anyone anything, because I gave it.
Pavlovich:
But unknown people approached me and said, do this and you'll get so much money.
Casher:
Yes, that's right, because I didn't tell them that I had already started working. But they had doubts about me continuing to work. Because the way I answered the questions, the way my knowledge base didn't match, so to speak, the drop, because they already understood that I was answering all of this quite well and understood this whole thing perfectly. And, so to speak, I operated with some terms that are used here, the tax police and the cashers. Some words like that.
Pavlovich:
Finari. Somehow in Belarus, the living were called finari.
Casher:
Yes, that's right.
Pavlovich:
And the Tifinki company.
Casher:
We seem to have shops called them.
Pavlovich:
Maybe.
Casher:
So, they gave me a piece of paper, I started writing. Under their dictation, what and how. And basically, I didn’t rat anyone out, because I understand perfectly well that if I started, for example, to rat someone out, they would start to drag me there, they would drag me there, they would drag me there, and so on. They would send me around the house, so to speak, like a locomotive. If I started to rat someone out, but I didn’t rat anyone out, I would just say that I don’t know anyone. I communicated with these people on Telegram. Some unknown person would just come with the money, just take it there, they would meet me somewhere around the corner, and that’s it.
Basically, I had no contact with these guys, there are no numbers. I don’t remember their names or faces.
How many drops did you have, working with bank accounts
? Pavlovich:
And what were the cases with your drops? How many of them, plus or minus, have passed through you in all this time?
Casher:
About 15-20 drops passed through me. I don’t remember the exact number. But my drops lived for a long time, because when, for example, I opened accounts with them, I immediately opened legal accounts in 5-7 banks. And our main banks were Sberbank, Alfa-Bank, Binbank, Raiffeisenbank, VTB-bank, Rostelkhozbank, and there are some other, inconspicuous banks.
Well, we opened these accounts as a backup, because when, for example, an account is frozen under Article 115, then, for example, money is simply sent from one account to another account to close the account. That’s it. And there were cases when, for example, all legal entities were blocked and the money, it’s just hanging on one legal entity, there, for example, 3 million, and that’s it, they can’t send it anywhere.
Pavlovich:
And these reserve accounts were opened simply so that, if the money there, for example, is blocked, yes, as in the above case, just, well, try to transfer it to this account?
Casher:
Yes, yes, yes, because, for example, when accounts are already being blocked under Article 115, then new legal. accounts are unlikely to be opened for a person, because some kind of stigma is put on it, a bank, and simply a bank already ....
Pavlovich:
This is some kind of general base, figuratively the Central Bank put some kind of stigma on top.
Casher:
Yes, what I did not have, there were a lot of cases when, for example, that's it, they blocked the accounts, and there was simply no opportunity to open any more other accounts. There was a complete refusal to open accounts everywhere.
Bank awareness
Pavlovich:
And don't the banks know that you have open, in addition to their structure, accounts in 10 more banks?
Casher:
I tried to open the largest possible number of accounts in one day. The largest possible number, so to speak, was when I first opened legal accounts in one day, and then I opened physical accounts. And it turned out that I immediately opened a huge number of...
Cashing out funds
Pavlovich:
How was the money cashed out? Was it cards or how was it converted into cash?
Casher:
Converted into cash? No, they didn't cash out through cards, because it was a white cashing out. And everything was cashed out through physical accounts. That is, for example, when some amount is transferred to drops... Without cash, yes, with some company, right? That is, they first transfer it to a legal account, then to a firm. they are transferred somehow. Naturally, all this is supported by some documentation and so on and so forth. And all that's left for the drop to do is come to the bank and withdraw this amount of money.
It happens that a bank, for example, refuses to withdraw funds. Well, it's just like, they see that some person is dressed so poorly, but he doesn't look like the amount he is trying to withdraw. And the bank simply refuses in every possible way. For example, even when there were cases when a certain amount of money was ordered, the bank, what's the big deal? You can't just come and say, I want to withdraw 2-3 million.
They'll tell you, well, order the money. And in advance, yes. Yes, you need to order the amount of money in advance and then come at a certain time, on a certain day, and withdraw this money. But there were cases when the person was not given this money. Well, that's all. They didn't want to give it.
Solving problems with refusals to cash out
Pavlovich:
And for what reason did the banks not want to give it to them? You say there were cases when the banks simply did not want to give it to them.
Well, how was it ultimately resolved?
Casher:
It was pretty easy, they just went to another bank branch and withdrew it there. And that's it.
Pavlovich:
That is, from some higher-up holding that we are not giving it to him, this is the general position of the bank, this did not happen?
Casher:
This did not happen. It was just some specific branch that did not want to give him the money. And that's it. This did happen. And that's it. For example, there were still problems with opening accounts, when, for example, I come to the bank, naturally, I go with drops. For example, I immediately take 2-3 drops there, come to the bank and try to open an account with them. Naturally, they already remember my face and know me. And, for example, in some cases they refused, but I went to agreements with these admins and cashiers, with operators.
That's it. And I opened an account, for example, Yurschita already, when, for example, who had already met this operator who opens accounts, we did, as we generally agreed that we open an account and buy insurance in this bank.
Pavlovich:
Well, yes-yes-yes.
Casher:
That's it. And, so to speak, there was such an unspoken bribe, which is beneficial for the bank and beneficial for us.
Pavlovich:
Well, because the manager who opens, he gets a percentage for selling insurance, it is tied to his KPI, to the sales plan, and so on.
Obnalshchik:
Yes, yes, yes. That is, they were already willing to open it. That is, they helped with the preparation of the documentation, well, when, for example, opening the Yuzha-Yuzhaccount.
Pavlovich:
How much did the insurance cost?
Obnalshchik:
Oh, it just depends on, for example, what a person wants.
Pavlovich:
Well, plus or minus.
Obnalshchik:
Probably somewhere around 5-10 thousand for insurance.
Pavlovich:
Well, that greatly increased, yes, the chances of opening a current account?
Obnalshchik:
Yes, it increased quite a lot. And it happened that, for example, you come, for example, the same thing, withdraw money from the entire account, that is, for example, when you block an account under Article 115 in some banks, as far as I remember, Binbank had it written in the agreement that, for example, if you try to withdraw money from a legal entity, you can’t withdraw money from the account. accounts blocked under Article 115 without explanation, without providing any documents, then a sum of 10% of the total amount in the account is charged there.
And it was necessary to bypass it somehow, to solve it with the administrator, the bank manager. Simply, for example, some kind of large insurance was already purchased. And something like that.
Loss of funds due to blocking of accounts
Pavlovich:
But in general it was still less than 10%. And such cases, so that they completely blocked and that's it and this money got stuck and you couldn't get it out at all later.
Casher:
But it was already beyond my power. That is, I didn't go to these issues in any way, I didn't solve them with people, other people who were there already solved it because they already had some connections because naturally there were other money, other bribes needed to be given to the bank managers in order to, for example, drive out such a sum of money. There were, yes, decrees, when, for example, 3 million were simply frozen, and that's it, there was no way to kick them out, there was no way.
How much passed through one drop during all this time
Pavlovich:
But in general, how much passed through one drop, you say, 15-20, how much passed through one drop during his life, let's say?
Casher:
It passed somewhere, probably, about... Everything happened, it depended on the drop, it happened that 5 would pass through him, and it happened that 15-20 would pass through him. It's just, well, pure chance. It was a kind of roulette, so to speak. There was no specific one. If they knew how much was passed through each drop, then life would be much easier, and everyone would know. It happened that a sum was simply poured into a drop, and he was immediately blocked. That's it, it's no longer fit for further use.
Pavlovich:
Well, I read that they also withdrew. A popular scheme was through cards. That is, they would take a busload of students, and open cards on them, and then they, well, you know, like when you paid your employees' salaries to cards, they would cash them out through an ATM. Well, the cards of these students were naturally taken away right away, well, and supposedly according to the documents it looked like they were receiving a salary, so they were cashing out their salary funds.
Casher:
Well, in the company where I worked, they didn't practice using cards alone, I don't know why, but probably using accounts, because it was more profitable to withdraw, because if you could withdraw a maximum of 400 thousand from a card, then, for example, you could withdraw 3 million from your account at once, and that's it, and not worry about it. Drop
remuneration percentages
Pavlovich:
The percentage at which it was done back then was 8, you say, on average, percent, right?
Obnalshchik:
8-9, that's how it was.
Pavlovich:
But I read, I didn't read, but I know, and from my acquaintance with people in this sphere, that 15, 20, 17 and a half happened, that is, there especially around New Year's.
Obnalshchik:
But around New Year's there is a huge rush, a very huge demand for the services of obnalshchiks, a really huge demand, because, apparently, everyone is closing the year and trying to somehow withdraw money into cash.
Pavlovich:
Well, you see, here, in principle, it is understandable, yes, the reason is even because the same organizations, it doesn't matter whether it is state or private, there, I don't know, the marketing department, for example, advertising on YouTube in December costs almost one and a half to two times more, that's why. Because everyone is draining budgets, if, for example, they had marketing, Phillips had a million dollars for this year, and they did not work it out, next year they can be given much less. They'll see that you only used 900 thousand, why should we give you another million next year? Let's give you 900 thousand, you haven't used it all anyway.
And that's why everyone is trying to get rid of the money in their accounts as much as possible, and that's probably why I think that this is precisely the excitement, and accordingly, the prices for cashing services are growing.
Did you get any bonuses, being a drop
? Casher:
Yes, probably because that's how it is. I didn't go into all these details. Why does the percentage increase? I was worried about my income.
Pavlovich:
But yours didn't increase, right?
Casher:
No, mine didn't increase. Well, of course, there were some simple bonuses. There were some just naut, for example, you got 20 thousand, and that's it. It happened. Just like that, on top.
Your relationship with drops
? Pavlovich:
But all these people, your drops, they are, you could say, the majority, yes, some kind of social individuals, did you have any difficulties with them, some kind of rams, that there were questions, generally friction, that someone underpaid someone, or did not want more, or something else, or maybe they tried to blackmail you with this, something else, or not?
Casher:
Unfortunately, I did not have this. Unfortunately, fortunately. Well, or fortunately, yes. I communicated with the Drop quite well. I did not have any such terrible attitude towards them. I got along very well with them and explained everything normally. It happened that, for example, a certain amount was deposited to the drop, and they simply blocked the account. And, for example, on Friday the amount was deposited, the account was blocked, and that's it.
That is, Saturday and Sunday, not working days, and the drop cannot be allowed to go home, because he knows that his amount was deposited. And it happened that I stayed with him, we rented an apartment, for example, for 2-3 days, and I lived with this drop, so that he would not run away or disappear anywhere.
Pavlovich:
But did he feel like a prisoner, or what? For example, I would have felt the same way if I were in his place.
Casher:
Well, I don’t know if he felt like a prisoner or not, but because, so to speak, I lured him with all sorts of sweets. There were all sorts of deliveries, alcohol, all that stuff without any problems at all.
Pavlovich:
You can’t really lure a drug addict with sweets.
Casher:
Yes, that’s right. Well, that is, I gave them everything they needed, so that they wouldn’t think about anything, wouldn’t think that something was going wrong. And they didn’t try to blackmail me, because I had a pretty good relationship with them. Do
your drops have problems with the law?
Pavlovich:
Did all of them later encounter problems similar to yours, with the tax authorities being called, law enforcement, and so on?
Obnalshchik:
Half of them, yes, half were lucky.
Pavlovich:
Half were simply not bothered and forgotten, right?
Obnalshchik:
Yes, half, so to speak, for some reason the VAT did not fall on them. The VAT fell on half.
Pavlovich:
So what, and they bothered everyone, and they...
Obnalshchik:
So for this half, you could say, on which the VAT fell, some were written off, and some were simply told no, that's it.
Pavlovich:
And now they owe the state a huge amount, right? Yes.
Obnalshchik:
I don't know how things are with this now, but at the time when I was doing this, this VAT was written off quite well. Maybe I was lucky that the VAT was written off, but as far as I know now, VAT is not written off for people, it's just that, for example, a court order comes that that's it, now you have to give there 50% of your salary. And there is VAT, there, they hang 3 to 4 million on people.
Pavlovich:
But they are still social, they usually don't work anywhere. In principle, they don't care about this piece of paper, yes, judging by the contingent with whom you communicated and pulled up the quality of their drops, it seems to me that they don't give a damn.
Casher:
Well, part of it worked out, yes. So, the VAT, on whom they didn't write off, these were just such people who didn't give a damn at all, didn't have any work, led the most social lifestyle.
Pavlovich:
Well, and they were harassed and there was something, maybe they were also threatened with some kind of interrogations, like you, did they publish this whole chain or not?
Casher:
I don't know anymore, I can't answer this question, because I simply, when the work ended, I stopped communicating with them. Well, if they...
Pavlovich:
Changed the phone or what?
Casher:
No. My phone was working, naturally, the main one. They just bothered me, that's all. There were cases when I was called in for questioning. I tell them, behave like this during the interrogation. I told them how I behaved. And, in principle, I had no problems with them. And those who are the most social, they just didn't even come for questioning.
How much money did you earn, how did you spend it
Pavlovich:
How much did you earn on all this activity?
Casher:
About 600-700.
Pavlovich:
That is, not that much at all.
Casher:
In general, pennies, actually. Because there were cases when I had some fines for the fact that, so to speak, I had some screw-ups. There, too, well, somewhere around 600-700 thousand worked. Well, naturally, I quickly lost this money, because I earned it in about 3-4 months, that's it. And right away, for example, when I started having such an income, the attributes of an expensive life, a good life, I immediately rented myself...
Pavlovich:
What kind?
Casher:
I immediately rented myself an apartment at the Universitet metro station with a view of Moscow State University, a two-room apartment, somewhere around 60 or 70 square meters with European-style renovation, really cool, immediately an expensive business taxi, deliveries, I stopped only in good Moscow restaurants, hung out and woke up when he asked to hang out, woke up with the thought that "oh well, whatever, I lost all my money today, tomorrow they will have it again or in a week they will transfer it again, or I will borrow, for example, fifty thousand.
They will give me my salary there soon anyway, well, interest from these people.
Pavlovich:
But at the beginning of the conversation you said that you wanted to earn money for some kind of business.
Casher:
It feels like when I got into it, I changed my mind about it, because I realized that this is a more profitable business.
You were saving up for a rainy day,
Pavlovich:
And there were thoughts, like, for example, in my criminal activity I was constantly, there, earning, there, it doesn’t matter, five, ten, a hundred, I always spent plus or minus five thousand dollars, the rest I put away, well, like for a rainy day, as is customary among Russians, suspecting that sooner or later it would all end. So you didn’t put anything aside?
Casher:
No, I didn’t try to put anything aside. Only later, probably about two weeks ago, did this thought come to me, because I hadn’t been working for long, 3-4 months, and it so happened that I had been partying and having fun all this time, and the thought that it could end sooner or later didn’t cross my mind. Only later, when I had already partied plus or minus, eaten my fill and, so to speak, was already full and already understood that I needed to put money aside, and it wouldn’t last forever.
That’s it. And I put aside some small amount, saved up, tried to open a business, but failed.
Methods for extending the viability of a drop
Pavlovich:
What should have been done to extend as much as possible, that is, the life of a legal entity, well, and the drop as a whole?
Casher:
To extend their life, it was necessary to open a lot of accounts in order to have the ability to transfer this money, but...
Pavlovich:
If they start to block them.
Casher:
Yes, if they start. But these guys who were engaged in this activity had this trick that they simply poured the maximum into the account before blocking, and immediately transferred this money. That is, they did not care how long this given drop, this account, would live, they simply poured it in at the maximum, that's it, it is blocked on another account, it is blocked in another. That is, they really illegally, you could say, poured in at the maximum.
Pavlovich:
That is, the first transaction there is the largest.
Casher:
Yes, yes, yes. They drained a lot, immediately poured it into the accounts.
Pavlovich:
That is, well, in principle, maybe this is right, yes, because, well, they will block you there not on the first try, but on the third, fourth, and you for these small attempts, you pour a little, once, well, it was probably easier to pour once.
Casher:
I asked them why they do this, why they provide me with some documentation, I say, well, you have documentation, for example, where this money came from, and so on, and so forth, they said, no, it is much easier to pour a huge amount, because in any case this account is blocked, and then, when you provide documentation, it can be constantly blocked, blocked, blocked for smaller amounts, and each time it is simply unprofitable to do this, it takes a lot of time.
The attitude of those close to you to your type of activity
Pavlovich:
Yes, that kind of peculiar sex. Did anyone close to you know that you were involved in this kind of activity?
Casher:
Yes, yes.
Pavlovich:
And how did they evaluate it?
Casher:
Quite negatively, so to speak, because they didn’t understand why. And I explained to them, oh well, the guys are good, they won’t screw me over, everything’s fine, and so on and so forth.
Pavlovich:
Well, they won’t screw me over, but what about your girlfriend, for example, your mother, and so on, so were you afraid that you’d get jailed, was that the case?
Casher:
Yes, there were such concerns, naturally, but thank God.
Pavlovich:
And what did you explain?
Casher:
Well, damn, the most basic explanation was that at the level I was doing it, they couldn’t put you in jail for it. That is, the maximum for it would be a suspended sentence or some kind of fine, even from the point of view of the law. And that’s what I operated on. Maybe, probably, such a response to them was stupid, but... But everyone was happy. Yes, everyone was happy. And, probably, he calmed himself down with this.
Maybe, like, they could have put me in jail if, for example, good people had not been caught, so to speak.
Extracting additional profit from money in accounts, cashing out periods
Pavlovich:
But look, for example, during the time, money came into your account, yes, well, someone else's, like, cashed out on your drops, and you have some time there, you can turn them over, say, to some kind of urgent deposit, there, for a few days in the bank and so on, that is, you didn't do it like that?
Casher:
In order to get interest?
Pavlovich:
Yes, well, how to extract some additional profit from this other people's money, while it's lying there in your accounts.
Casher:
They had a trick about cashing out from the table.
Pavlovich:
What does that mean?
Casher:
This is when, for example, you meet, like we met, you say that you need to cash out 5 million. You transfer me these 5 million, and I give them to you right away.
Pavlovich:
Well, how long does it take in total? How many days does the whole process take?
Casher:
Right away. That is, you, say, transferred money to me, I gave it to you right away. That's it. Well, for that, of course, the percentage was much higher.
Pavlovich:
And if the cashing out wasn't that urgent, then how long does the whole procedure take in total? From the moment, say, the money entered my current account today, I mean the drop account, until you already...
Casher:
It was about three to ten days.
Pavlovich:
Three to ten days. Yes.
Casher:
Because it happened that this money would be immediately poured in. How did this even happen? For example, there was a line of people, those who wanted to have money. And how they would pour their money in, and it would turn out that, for example, the first person who poured it into a new drop, all the money was poured in from him, everything was withdrawn well, withdrawn well, and was immediately given to him. And there were cases when, for example, an account fell under 115, and while they were waiting for this account to be unfrozen, until the money left it, it would happen that another account would be frozen too, it was necessary to transfer it to another account.
And all sorts of difficulties occurred, and it would happen that it would drag on for up to 10 days.
How they fight against cashing out
Pavlovich:
Well, you could very well get a job in a bank, knowing how it all works, yes, get a job in a bank and fight scammers, that cashing out. By the way, do you know how they fight against cashing-out methods now?
Casher:
I know that now, at the slightest suspicion, the account is immediately blocked, and not without any discussions. That is, for example, when I was already leaving this activity, a law was passed in some banking sector that accounts were simply frozen as quickly as possible, not even some amount, just a small amount was deposited there and the account was immediately blocked.
Pavlovich:
Well, now, for example, it is quite simple for a computer system, where there are all these huge arrays of data and numbers, because now they want to make even for individuals, for example, a suspicion that you are engaged in cashing out or are conducting some kind of commercial activity that is not registered in the established manner, well, illegal entrepreneurial, let's say, this is one of the criteria. You received money and then it quickly went to another card, for example, and everything is clear that you are just an intermediary and simply accepted, gave and, maybe, kept some amount for yourself.
That is, this is already for individuals, for example, when Mishustin headed the government, that is, this is being introduced, and with legal entities, well, this can be tracked in principle using the same principle, yes, they came and went, they came and went, that is, for example, in my legal companies, I don’t have any others, but in general, yes, my company always has money in its account.
That is, they came, we paid something to the office, we rent the employees’ salaries with the account, for example, but the bulk of the money is there. We almost never have such a thing that they came and left an hour later. And if something did go there within an hour, then these were some small household needs, maybe one tenth of what was entered into the account. And, in principle, our company cannot be blocked for anything, yes.
When they came and immediately left, the entire amount, then this is, of course, some kind of cashing out.
Casher:
Well, naturally, because you work legally. And there, as you said, money was poured in. For example, a notification would come that money had been received into the account, into the final account. Then we would immediately be standing at the bank branch.
Pavlovich:
An hour later, yes.
Casher:
Yes, and that is, even there it was, look, it came, look, we already knew, that is, we transferred the money to this account. We would already be on our way to the bank branch where, say, our tellers sit, who can give us this amount. And a notification would simply come, we would go into the bank and immediately withdraw the money.
Pavlovich:
But banks, look, those same protsinists and others, if they wanted, yes, they understood what you were doing, they could just call the tax office and so on, and you would come for this money, if someone needed it, and a capture group would already be waiting for you there.
Casher:
As far as I know, they closed one bank in Moscow because of this, namely a branch of the bank, precisely because the bank, namely this branch, was engaged in this activity.
How can you cheat a drop?
Pavlovich:
Look, my friends who were engaged in cashing out, yes, there was a situation when a person says, I transferred to your account, shows a payment order that the money was supposedly sent, but the money did not reach their account, and there were such showdowns, they even brought in bandits to understand who was right or not. Is it possible to cheat a casher somehow?
Casher:
Yes, there are good ways, but what you told me is a pretty stupid way, in my opinion, because you can just ask the bank whether there really was such a payment order, and, in principle, that's it. Here the whole solution to the problem is like that, in my opinion, again. They cheated cashers quite cleverly, and it was precisely from the side of law enforcement agencies. For example, they somehow accidentally found out, for example, that, for example, some drop exists here, money is somehow deposited to it, for example, they turned these drops in at the bank.
There were those who, in cooperation with this, for example, with some police, reported that some, some drop, was withdrawing money, there were suspicions that he was engaged in cashing out. The police officers caught this drop, and that was it, and at first they pressed him really hard, like bandits. And they said, well, that's it, in short, when, for example, you receive a sum of money, you tell some bank branch, we'll come by, you'll tell us when you withdraw the money, we'll just quickly detain you with this money.
And that's how it was, the police took and threw the cashers like that.
Pavlovich:
That's not enough, right?
Casher:
Oh, yeah.
Pavlovich:
Well, was there any demand for the drop afterwards or not?
Casher:
It was, so to speak, in partners, those who were cashers, all these stories happened, because fortunately in our environment, where all this happened, there were these moments, so to speak, there was honest cashing and honest relations between employees and colleagues. But these were enough, so to speak, not from third parties, not from third parties, but right here in the story, when, for example, a person who was screwed like that told about it.
Pavlovich:
And do you know of any other schemes?
Casher:
Actually, it doesn’t come to my mind right now, but there are quite a lot of schemes like this... Well, the most primitive thing, as you said, is that everyone just stupidly translated and said, no, nothing, goodbye, we don’t care. There are such, yes, frostbitten people.
Pavlovich:
There I just now remembered in more detail this story of mine, and there it was that the person says, yes, the money came, I am responsible for it, but they froze all my accounts and so on, and such a delay, you know, I, maybe, will return it someday, and you end up in a situation where you can’t do anything, like, those people to whom you offered to cash out, they transferred, and you did
n’t cash it yourself, but I, for example, turned out to be an intermediary, I, it turns out, accepted money from some, they actually transferred it, I transferred it to you, and you say that you have some problems, I will give it back someday, but you are in collusion with the one who, you know, that is, I am the scapegoat, and you are in collusion with that guy, that is, he transferred, the money came to you, you sawed it up there, settled accounts with each other, and I kind of owe, because my
drop, let's say, the money was deposited, but he can't give it back for some reason, but demands it from me. Now I remembered in more detail the scheme that was, yes. And it's just that the drop and the one who took the money, threw it, they're just in cahoots, you know?
Casher:
For example, it happens, yes, I told you once, from the drop, these are the people who just catch, so to speak, the drop, they ask him and understand that, well, there's no point in catching anything from him at all. It happens that the drop, more often than not, doesn't even know that this happened. He sort of withdrew the money, worked it off, and then he shouldn't care what happens to this money.
Reasons for stopping this business
Pavlovich:
What was the reason that you got involved in this business?
Casher:
The reason was that VAT fell on me. When I, for example, had already worked for 2-3 weeks, it fell somewhere after 2-3 months. Only then did it fall on me sometime. And it turned out that I told these guys so and so that I had VAT, they called me in for questioning, they came to me with arrests. And somehow it turned out that they began to communicate less. And at first we hung out there, constantly relaxed, stopped inviting to parties, stopped somehow getting in touch.
They said something like, okay, we will solve this problem for you, don't worry. Well, basically, so that I just didn't ask them unnecessary questions. And the communication simply came to naught. And I was left to solve this problem with my debt myself.
Pavlovich:
Well, in the end it ended successfully. Thanks, probably, yes, to the same employees, that is, the tax.
Casher:
Probably, per day, yes.
Pavlovich:
They just met you halfway.
Casher:
This is actually surprising, by the way. The way I hear from everyone about how terrible our government is, how terribly it works. Damn, well, I was purely by chance, relatively lucky, with the kind of employees I got from these agencies, because they treated me quite well. As good as possible.
Pavlovich:
Well, imagine how they laughed inside, yes, when they understand who you are, what you are, you tell them such fairy tales. There for three hours, they are adults, everyone is sitting, well, well, well, well. And then you hop, such a sharp shot from the side. So we hang 2.8 million on you. And you are like, ahh, no, stop, stop, guys.
Casher:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. They laughed right at that moment. It was enough. It was not funny at that moment. But such an atmosphere was there, the atmosphere was extremely relaxed. Relaxed. This is when everyone is having fun, everything is good, everything is already wonderful, everyone understood what is going on. And so it is.
What lessons did you learn for yourself
? Pavlovich:
What did this incident teach you? It didn't give you much money, yes, but you lived a little of this dolcevita, this sweet life.
Obnalshchik:
You know, they look for whom a little. For example, if for some ordinary provincial, for example, from somewhere in the Novgorod region, Novosibirsk, such provincial small towns, then for them,
Pavlovich:
Navosibirsk is not small.
Obnalshchik:
Well, there, Omsk, Perm, those are the cities. For them, these are amounts of money, well, quite huge. You can, oh my God, buy an apartment there. For example, when I heard that I spent that money there, there, in 4 months, they would say, okay, I would buy an apartment for that money, something like that, a three-room apartment. I don’t know what the prices are there, roughly. But for Moscow, for example, these 600-700 thousand, well, that’s ridiculous money, you can even, well, how much? Well, you can’t live on that for six months.
Pavlovich:
Yes, a month.
Cash-out:
Well, it seems to me that you can live on that for exactly 2-3 months. That is, roughly, how much an apartment costs in Moscow, you can’t rent an apartment now, you can rent an apartment in Moscow for at least 40 thousand now. And that money was gone so quickly. This story also taught me that it is better to earn money legally and honestly, because the consequences that may occur are not equivalent to the money you earned. And in this case, this is what happened to me.
The money that I, so to speak, earn now, requires much less effort, so to speak, and risks, but it earns enough. Well, more or less normally.
Pavlovich:
And at the same time, you are not worried about your freedom?
Casher:
Yes, I am not worried at all. That's it. I was afraid that I would have consequences, that they would put some kind of stamp on me in some database that I would no longer be able to work in some agencies, normal companies, large ones, that I would not be able to pass the security service. But I worked as a programmer, I work as a programmer now, I worked as a programmer in one bank, in the fintech department and in the lending department.
And I was surprised that the security service let me in there. And gave me all the access and so on and so forth.
Pavlovich:
Well, in general, I guess you can say that you were really lucky given the situation itself, that the tax authorities met you halfway, and the universe itself probably shows you that everything is fine now, that it hasn't affected you in any way. It probably just shows that you and other young people who could be in your place, and maybe will be, shouldn't get involved in crime, especially now.
Casher:
Now it's generally pointless to get involved in this stage, in crime at all, because there are just a ton of ways to do practically nothing and earn normal money. And even Yandex.Courier. How much do they earn, 60-70, in Moscow?
Pavlovich:
Yes, during the pandemic, yes, salaries went up.
Casher:
Well, that is, well, 60-70 thousand, oh my god, doctors don't earn that much. And here's some Yandex.Courier, like, here, earn money. And, in principle, 60-70 thousand in Moscow should be enough for you to live, I think. That's a normal amount.
What is the most important thing in life for you
Pavlovich:
And the last question. What, in your opinion, is the most important thing in life?
Casher:
Happiness and peace and freedom.
Results
Pavlovich:
Thank you for coming. A big thanks for the instructive story, right? I think for everyone. Friends, thank you for reading. Write any questions or wishes under the topic, and don't get into crime, because for our guest today everything ended well, and for me it once didn't end very well. And in whose place you will end up, that is, whether you will be able to get out of the water dry, like our hero today, or not, like me, well, this basically does not even depend on you, but on luck and on the will, so to speak, of the Universe.
Therefore, now we have many more opportunities to earn money legally. Hugs, bye.
Enjoy reading!
Contents:
- Introduction
- How did you get into this field?
- Your attitude to responsibility for this type of activity, how long have you worked
- How much did you earn, promotion in the hierarchy
- How did you look for drops, what kind of contingent
- Responsibilities of a dropper
- Opening legal accounts in banks, features of working with banks
- Number of refusals to open accounts
- How much did you pay the drops, your income
- Your problems with the tax office
- How many drops did you have, working with bank accounts
- Bank awareness
- Cashing out funds
- Solving problems with cash-out refusals
- Loss of funds due to account blocking
- How many have passed through one drop in all time?
- Drop reward percentages
- Did you get any bonuses as a drop?
- Your relationship with drops
- Your drops have problems with the law
- How much money did you earn, how did you spend it?
- You were saving for a rainy day.
- Ways to extend the life of a drop
- The attitude of those close to you towards your type of activity
- Extracting additional profit from money in accounts, cashing out terms
- How to combat cashing out
- How can I throw a drop?
- Reasons for stopping this business
- What lessons have you learned for yourself?
- What is the most important thing in life for you?
- Results
Introduction
Pavlovich:
Friends, hello, new interviews and today we are talking with a guest in a mask, as you can see, we are talking about white cashing out, we are talking just a little bit, because the topic is bottomless, you can invite 10 heroes for this interview, each will find some aspect of their own in this and tell, but here is a little bit today about white cashing out.
White cashing out, if you do not understand, then this is when, for example, some company, for example, opens a non-cash account from its current account, they need to receive, accordingly, cash, preferably already some kind of laundered, yes, according to the documents, as I understand it, correctly conducted, so that the tax authorities do not fool their brains and all that stuff.
Casher:
Yes, that's right.
How did you get into this field
Pavlovich:
And how did you get into this business and how long have you been involved in it?
Casher:
Yes, how it all purely by accident got into this business.
Pavlovich:
Well, I don't think that everyone gets there purely by accident, someone is 100% on purpose.
Casher:
Well, it all happened by accident, because I needed money, and I decided to open a business, and I needed money to open a business. And then it so happened that a person, some person on VKontakte or Odnoklassniki, it doesn't matter. He wrote, suggested, like, there is such a topic. And I thought about it, figured it out and decided, well, I can try. At that moment, I did not realize what the consequences could be, but I decided to try.
To do this, I needed to open an individual entrepreneur in my name and open several legal and FIS accounts. I was then a drop, again, without thinking, got there and did not know that a drop is, so to speak, the lowest link in this whole sphere. And as a result, after opening an individual entrepreneur, legal and physical accounts, after 5-6 days the first money was poured into me, there the amount of the poured was about 7-8 million, and this is the money I needed to withdraw.
My percentage of withdrawals was, I don't remember, at the time when I was a drop, it was about 0.4% of the withdrawal amount, and the average withdrawal amount for me was somewhere around 2-3 million, because, for example, when an amount of about 8-7 million is deposited into your, so to speak, legal account, this was the average
deposit amount, then it is deposited into several physical accounts.
And so, gradually, you have to withdraw this money. Then, at that time, cashing out felt quite good and allowed huge amounts of money to be withdrawn and transferred through accounts. So to speak, at that time, not like now.
Your attitude to responsibility for this type of activity, how long did
Pavlovich work:
Well, didn't you think about it? Well, first of all, you needed some papers. You had to show, let's say, that you are conducting some kind of activity and this was calculated for your services or for some goods.
And in general, have you thought about the responsibility for this? They come to you and say that you have received a huge sum of money, please pay taxes on it and so on. You are an individual entrepreneur.
Casher:
No, everything was decided for this, those people who poured money into my name, they decided all these issues, all sorts of documentation, tax reporting, where I was from and where this money was coming from. I just needed to come to the bank and withdraw some money. Naturally, I worked for quite a long time, because my accounts existed for about 2-3 weeks. During this time, I withdrew...
Pavlovich:
That's considered a long time, right?
Casher:
Yes, at that time, if we take today's realities, then according to today's realities, it's a very long time, I think, my stomach.
Pavlovich:
2-3 weeks.
Casher:
Yes, that's right. During that time, about 35 million was transferred through me. So, I withdrew all this money.
How much did you earn, promotion in the hierarchy
Pavlovich:
Well, you earned there, if 0.4%, well, there, 1150 rubles in total.
Casher:
Yes, yes, yes. That is, I don’t remember how much I counted, because depending on the bank, depending on the account, the amount was constantly jumping, and there were some like that... In general, yes, somewhere about plus or minus that’s how I earned from myself.
Pavlovich:
Well, some money, in fact, is extremely ridiculous. That is, in comparison with what they probably had, that is, your, so to speak, bosses, who poured money on you, everyone.
Casher:
Yes, but I simply did not understand it at that moment. It was like there was an awareness that, yes, indeed, they were earning a lot, but there was no awareness that I was, like, the lowest link. That’s how it happened.
Pavlovich:
And when and how did this epiphany descend upon you?
Obnalshchik:
The epiphany happened when, for example, they themselves offered me, so to speak, back and forth, somehow it happened that they themselves offered me to become, so to speak, one level higher. A dropper. A dropper, yes. That's it. But in any case, besides just bringing in droppers, I was also involved in leading from these droppers, because I had gotten a pretty good grasp of this whole topic and understood in general what was what, how to move forward.
Pavlovich:
Well, I experienced it myself.
How I looked for droppers, what kind of contingent
Obnalshchik:
That's right. And I naturally looked for droppers, these were some people, alcoholics, to be honest, and people with drug addictions. It was easiest to persuade them, to join them. A normal, adequate person had to be explained, persuaded, and so on.
Pavlovich:
Well, of course, concerns related to the tax office and so on.
Responsibilities of a dropper
Obnalshchik:
All of this. But still, it was quite easy to persuade alcoholics and drug addicts. I was, so to speak, quite honest in my work, I told people that I don’t know what the consequences might be, but there might be consequences. But I said, like, look, I’ve worked, I don’t have any consequences. Like, everything’s ok, but you, like... I’m not you, you might have some consequences. That’s it. With these people, that I not only just brought him to the company, so to speak, some kind of OOO “Obnal”. That’s it. And...
Pavlovich:
OOO “Obnal”. Yes.
Opening legal accounts in banks, the specifics of working with banks
Obnalshchik:
That’s it. My responsibilities also included opening legal accounts, individual accounts and opening individual entrepreneurs and generally maintaining all the documentation. It was quite difficult, for example, to open legal accounts in banks. Individual accounts were opened right at the snap of a finger, that is, they were opened right away. There were no problems with that. The problems were specifically with legal accounts. Because, for example, when a person comes, some alcoholic or drug addict, he needs to come up with a story, why he needs this legal account at all.
And for each person I came up with a story about their business, what they do. I thought it out down to the smallest detail, because when a bank employee from the legal department opens a legal account for you, some kind of interrogation takes place.
Pavlovich:
But he is not a fool in any case.
Casher:
Yes, yes, yes. That he more or less understands what this account can be used for. Well, I prepared people well enough and they opened them for people.
Pavlovich:
But you prepared them, and they themselves did not act stupid?
Casher:
I was in touch with them. That is, I told them, like, if there are any questions, say that I did not hear the questions well, and just write to me there, drag out time until I answer this question correctly. My people opened accounts quite often. The most popular banks for opening accounts were Sberbank, I think Binbank. And then there was, yes, also. I think it no longer exists.
Pavlovich:
Well, it was subject to rehabilitation, yes.
Casher:
Exactly. And then there was Alfa. Alfa was one of the most difficult banks for opening accounts, Yura specifically, because you could transfer a fairly large amount of money to Alfa, but Alfa did not open accounts for everyone. Because there was even such a thing when, for example, a bank employee said, everything is okay, I prepared the documentation, and then they call the person and ask very specific questions, for example, how much, approximately, is your net profit
, do you want to earn, where is your office located, your type of activity, what counterparties, maybe there are, maybe some are planned, and Alfa-Bank specifically arranged such an interrogation with such questions.
Pavlovich:
Well, I just opened one of my companies in Tinkoff, and they even came to my office, that is, they came, took pictures, walked around here, and what will you have here, and what is this, what are you doing, apparently Tinkoff just doesn’t have physical offices and I can’t go there, so they come and look themselves, but for us it went without a hitch, they see, there is a legal address, there is an office, employees are sitting, the company is operating, but I doubt that Tinkoff would open it now for a half-homeless, half-drunkard, it seems to me that the screws have been tightened even more compared to that time.
Casher:
Well, as far as I know, before, when I was doing this 4 years ago, Tinkoff Bank was quite like that, quite loyal, it didn’t give a damn at all, it doesn’t take this activity seriously at all now.
Pavlovich:
I think you’ve all heard about the God’s eye bot on Telegram. I have a whole separate issue dedicated to it, watch it at the link, which in a matter of seconds finds any information available in open Internet sources about your offender, debtor or just a girl you like. The search is conducted by phone number, email, full name or car number. Profiles on Instagram, VKontakte and other social networks and messengers.
You can also very quickly find a person by photo, check the entire set of information by his IP address or bitcoin wallet. It works for almost all countries, but the bot has the most information on citizens of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan. True, there is a problem. God's Eye is constantly being removed from Telegram, so the working link is in the description under the video. Yes, and you can also submit a request to remove information about you from the bot's results, which will be satisfied as quickly as possible. Link in the description.
Number of refusals to open accounts
Pavlovich:
What percentage of refusals were there? For example, there are 100 people, let's take it as 100 percent, 100 people went to the banks, yes, and all the banks refused? How many people? Or were there none? At least one bank will open it anyway.
Casher:
There were such people, what's the joke, when, for example, it happens that, for example, they opened an account for a person, I had such a person who was extremely stupid, his speech was extremely incoherent, he could hardly speak, they somehow opened an account for him, and then a decision was made with him that they cannot interact with him at all, because it happens that, for example, they pour money into an account, into a legal account, and it happens that the account is immediately blocked under 115.
For unexplained reasons. And this person must come to the bank, somehow talk to the administrator or manager there.
Pavlovich:
Explain the sources of the funds and so on.
Casher:
Yes, yes, yes, that's how to explain all this. And in general it was unrealistic to simply explain that, like and so on, because he stuttered as much as possible. And that's how it was. That is, we decided not to use it.
How much did you pay the droppers, your income
Pavlovich:
How much did you pay them? The same as you did at the time, there 0.4%?
Casher:
No, I paid them somewhere around 0.2%. 0.2 in general. Yes.
Pavlovich:
And your marginality and your activity amounted to how much did you receive, already now, organizing companies there and e-mailers for your higher-up bosses?
Casher:
My income was approximately, when I worked, when I was a dropper, that is, it had already grown 1-1.2 depending on the cases and simply, so to speak, on the exchange rate, that's it.
Pavlovich:
Well, you gave them 0.2, and you had up to 1% left there, you basically didn't have any.
Casher:
Yes, I had it somewhere. Well, as I had already calculated at that time, I have 1% quite well, because there were several people in the share. Because if, for example, the average cashing rate in Moscow at that time was somewhere around 8-9%, then, for example, there were several people, for example, about 3-4%. Pavlovich
:
Well, give everyone a percentage, it turns out that from the very top, taking into account overhead costs and so on, 3 percent can remain.
Casher:
Yes, yes, yes. That is, my income was quite good, what I do, as it were, I get practically quite well.
Your problems with the tax office
Pavlovich:
And the cases when these mules of yours were held accountable, well, for you, you say, everything went smoothly and until now no one has bothered you for taxes or anything, right?
Casher:
No, unfortunately, they pulled me in, because it turned out that one drop that worked, well, such a situation happened to him that….
Pavlovich:
I'm specifically talking about your situation now, the money that was there, plus or minus 35 million, was driven to you at the time. That is, no one bothered you about this issue, right?
Casher:
No, they did. That's why too. That is, they specifically bothered me about this issue. At first, they bothered me, so to speak, only two or three months later. They bothered me. The tax authorities? Yes, the tax authorities bothered me. That's it. How did the situation happen there? About the fact that there are such people there, on whom they simply drop the VAT. That's it.
And it so happened that the person, they dropped the VAT on him, he refused all of this, and, accordingly, according to some schemes, somehow it all happened like this, it all transferred to me along the chain, because I had some kind of transactions with him according to the documents.
Pavlovich:
And what called you to the tax office?
Cash-out:
How did it start? I just got regular letters. Letters of happiness. Yes, letters of happiness. They came and said that you are coming for questioning, we will just talk to you. But I, naturally, ignored them, I thought that it was okay, they were like telling me, don’t worry, just don’t go, and that’s it, nothing will happen. Then it turned out that the tax authorities came to see me with a summons. I was quite surprised because the tax authorities invite me for questioning, and the police arrive.
Naturally, I was hiding, I didn’t open the door, and at some point they just called me. I think I didn’t show up for questioning three times. If you don’t show up for questioning three or two times, then you are summoned with a summons. They came to see me with a summons several times, but I still kept hiding, I didn’t open the door for them. Like, I wasn’t home. They couldn’t catch me. And at some point they found my phone number, called and said, like, so and so, come, we'll sort everything out amicably.
If you want this to end amicably.
Pavlovich:
It was the tax office, right?
Casher:
Yes, it was the tax office that called me. It's quite surprising that they approached this issue. Because, as far as I know, many people there had specific problems. That's it.
Pavlovich:
And you came there?
Casher:
Yes, I came there. I had some kind of interrogation. Were you worried? Not that I was worried. Actually, not even that. Because I had one, they gave me a form, an interrogation report and some forms. There were about 60-70 questions that I had to answer about my activities.
What I was doing, where the money was coming from, like, did I have any settlements with these companies and so on, it turned out that I was a smart drop and figured out this whole topic and like asked these guys for documentation on me, and so, during the interrogation, I simply relied on this documentation and answered. The tax authorities just couldn’t... Get close to me. Yes, get close. And they just left me in the office somewhere on duty and that’s it, and that is, they went off somewhere to a meeting.
In the end, they then took me up to some other office, there were probably about 15 people at some kind of round table. And there were already police officers there with me, what ranks, I don’t know. They just told me that they were in civilian clothes. Maybe they scared me, maybe not. And in the end, they started talking to me seriously. That is, they were a little stuck on me, they tried to put some pressure on me somehow. But it was quite, so to speak, a light interrogation.
That is, they didn't threaten me there, they didn't try to beat me up, break me, and so on. Everything was pretty light.
Pavlovich:
Well, and you repeated there what, in principle, yes, and the same thing.
Casher:
Yes, that is, I repeated the same thing, the same thing. They tried to ask me a question, the same question from different angles, that's it, every time. Each time I answer the same question several times. And in the end, I just, I probably spent about two hours fending off these questions from them. And at some point, one of these people, who was just sitting quietly on the sidelines, asks me, he just says, well, you now have a debt of 2.8 million on DSVS.
As you say, that you were engaged in your business activities, I think that's what it's called, then be so kind as to pay these 2.8 million. And that's it, a minute of silence, I'm so out of it, I don't know what to do. And in the end I say, no, it wasn't me who was doing all this. Naturally, they all laughed at this.
Pavlovich:
But they already understood.
Casher:
Yes, they are wonderful, but they are stupid. People are not stupid, they understand all this perfectly well. They laughed at the fact that I immediately took my words back. And they gave me some kind of paper about writing from the heart, so to speak.
Pavlovich:
I am a drop. I don't know whose money was.
Casher:
That's right. I don't know if I can tell you this or not, but the employees simply acted extremely loyally towards me, because Because they gave me a paper and said to write from the heart. Not even from the heart, but simply explanatory, so that we could pass your documents on to higher authorities. And in the end, under their guidance, I wrote the papers. Naturally, I didn't rat anyone out, didn't tell anyone anything, because I gave it.
Pavlovich:
But unknown people approached me and said, do this and you'll get so much money.
Casher:
Yes, that's right, because I didn't tell them that I had already started working. But they had doubts about me continuing to work. Because the way I answered the questions, the way my knowledge base didn't match, so to speak, the drop, because they already understood that I was answering all of this quite well and understood this whole thing perfectly. And, so to speak, I operated with some terms that are used here, the tax police and the cashers. Some words like that.
Pavlovich:
Finari. Somehow in Belarus, the living were called finari.
Casher:
Yes, that's right.
Pavlovich:
And the Tifinki company.
Casher:
We seem to have shops called them.
Pavlovich:
Maybe.
Casher:
So, they gave me a piece of paper, I started writing. Under their dictation, what and how. And basically, I didn’t rat anyone out, because I understand perfectly well that if I started, for example, to rat someone out, they would start to drag me there, they would drag me there, they would drag me there, and so on. They would send me around the house, so to speak, like a locomotive. If I started to rat someone out, but I didn’t rat anyone out, I would just say that I don’t know anyone. I communicated with these people on Telegram. Some unknown person would just come with the money, just take it there, they would meet me somewhere around the corner, and that’s it.
Basically, I had no contact with these guys, there are no numbers. I don’t remember their names or faces.
How many drops did you have, working with bank accounts
? Pavlovich:
And what were the cases with your drops? How many of them, plus or minus, have passed through you in all this time?
Casher:
About 15-20 drops passed through me. I don’t remember the exact number. But my drops lived for a long time, because when, for example, I opened accounts with them, I immediately opened legal accounts in 5-7 banks. And our main banks were Sberbank, Alfa-Bank, Binbank, Raiffeisenbank, VTB-bank, Rostelkhozbank, and there are some other, inconspicuous banks.
Well, we opened these accounts as a backup, because when, for example, an account is frozen under Article 115, then, for example, money is simply sent from one account to another account to close the account. That’s it. And there were cases when, for example, all legal entities were blocked and the money, it’s just hanging on one legal entity, there, for example, 3 million, and that’s it, they can’t send it anywhere.
Pavlovich:
And these reserve accounts were opened simply so that, if the money there, for example, is blocked, yes, as in the above case, just, well, try to transfer it to this account?
Casher:
Yes, yes, yes, because, for example, when accounts are already being blocked under Article 115, then new legal. accounts are unlikely to be opened for a person, because some kind of stigma is put on it, a bank, and simply a bank already ....
Pavlovich:
This is some kind of general base, figuratively the Central Bank put some kind of stigma on top.
Casher:
Yes, what I did not have, there were a lot of cases when, for example, that's it, they blocked the accounts, and there was simply no opportunity to open any more other accounts. There was a complete refusal to open accounts everywhere.
Bank awareness
Pavlovich:
And don't the banks know that you have open, in addition to their structure, accounts in 10 more banks?
Casher:
I tried to open the largest possible number of accounts in one day. The largest possible number, so to speak, was when I first opened legal accounts in one day, and then I opened physical accounts. And it turned out that I immediately opened a huge number of...
Cashing out funds
Pavlovich:
How was the money cashed out? Was it cards or how was it converted into cash?
Casher:
Converted into cash? No, they didn't cash out through cards, because it was a white cashing out. And everything was cashed out through physical accounts. That is, for example, when some amount is transferred to drops... Without cash, yes, with some company, right? That is, they first transfer it to a legal account, then to a firm. they are transferred somehow. Naturally, all this is supported by some documentation and so on and so forth. And all that's left for the drop to do is come to the bank and withdraw this amount of money.
It happens that a bank, for example, refuses to withdraw funds. Well, it's just like, they see that some person is dressed so poorly, but he doesn't look like the amount he is trying to withdraw. And the bank simply refuses in every possible way. For example, even when there were cases when a certain amount of money was ordered, the bank, what's the big deal? You can't just come and say, I want to withdraw 2-3 million.
They'll tell you, well, order the money. And in advance, yes. Yes, you need to order the amount of money in advance and then come at a certain time, on a certain day, and withdraw this money. But there were cases when the person was not given this money. Well, that's all. They didn't want to give it.
Solving problems with refusals to cash out
Pavlovich:
And for what reason did the banks not want to give it to them? You say there were cases when the banks simply did not want to give it to them.
Well, how was it ultimately resolved?
Casher:
It was pretty easy, they just went to another bank branch and withdrew it there. And that's it.
Pavlovich:
That is, from some higher-up holding that we are not giving it to him, this is the general position of the bank, this did not happen?
Casher:
This did not happen. It was just some specific branch that did not want to give him the money. And that's it. This did happen. And that's it. For example, there were still problems with opening accounts, when, for example, I come to the bank, naturally, I go with drops. For example, I immediately take 2-3 drops there, come to the bank and try to open an account with them. Naturally, they already remember my face and know me. And, for example, in some cases they refused, but I went to agreements with these admins and cashiers, with operators.
That's it. And I opened an account, for example, Yurschita already, when, for example, who had already met this operator who opens accounts, we did, as we generally agreed that we open an account and buy insurance in this bank.
Pavlovich:
Well, yes-yes-yes.
Casher:
That's it. And, so to speak, there was such an unspoken bribe, which is beneficial for the bank and beneficial for us.
Pavlovich:
Well, because the manager who opens, he gets a percentage for selling insurance, it is tied to his KPI, to the sales plan, and so on.
Obnalshchik:
Yes, yes, yes. That is, they were already willing to open it. That is, they helped with the preparation of the documentation, well, when, for example, opening the Yuzha-Yuzhaccount.
Pavlovich:
How much did the insurance cost?
Obnalshchik:
Oh, it just depends on, for example, what a person wants.
Pavlovich:
Well, plus or minus.
Obnalshchik:
Probably somewhere around 5-10 thousand for insurance.
Pavlovich:
Well, that greatly increased, yes, the chances of opening a current account?
Obnalshchik:
Yes, it increased quite a lot. And it happened that, for example, you come, for example, the same thing, withdraw money from the entire account, that is, for example, when you block an account under Article 115 in some banks, as far as I remember, Binbank had it written in the agreement that, for example, if you try to withdraw money from a legal entity, you can’t withdraw money from the account. accounts blocked under Article 115 without explanation, without providing any documents, then a sum of 10% of the total amount in the account is charged there.
And it was necessary to bypass it somehow, to solve it with the administrator, the bank manager. Simply, for example, some kind of large insurance was already purchased. And something like that.
Loss of funds due to blocking of accounts
Pavlovich:
But in general it was still less than 10%. And such cases, so that they completely blocked and that's it and this money got stuck and you couldn't get it out at all later.
Casher:
But it was already beyond my power. That is, I didn't go to these issues in any way, I didn't solve them with people, other people who were there already solved it because they already had some connections because naturally there were other money, other bribes needed to be given to the bank managers in order to, for example, drive out such a sum of money. There were, yes, decrees, when, for example, 3 million were simply frozen, and that's it, there was no way to kick them out, there was no way.
How much passed through one drop during all this time
Pavlovich:
But in general, how much passed through one drop, you say, 15-20, how much passed through one drop during his life, let's say?
Casher:
It passed somewhere, probably, about... Everything happened, it depended on the drop, it happened that 5 would pass through him, and it happened that 15-20 would pass through him. It's just, well, pure chance. It was a kind of roulette, so to speak. There was no specific one. If they knew how much was passed through each drop, then life would be much easier, and everyone would know. It happened that a sum was simply poured into a drop, and he was immediately blocked. That's it, it's no longer fit for further use.
Pavlovich:
Well, I read that they also withdrew. A popular scheme was through cards. That is, they would take a busload of students, and open cards on them, and then they, well, you know, like when you paid your employees' salaries to cards, they would cash them out through an ATM. Well, the cards of these students were naturally taken away right away, well, and supposedly according to the documents it looked like they were receiving a salary, so they were cashing out their salary funds.
Casher:
Well, in the company where I worked, they didn't practice using cards alone, I don't know why, but probably using accounts, because it was more profitable to withdraw, because if you could withdraw a maximum of 400 thousand from a card, then, for example, you could withdraw 3 million from your account at once, and that's it, and not worry about it. Drop
remuneration percentages
Pavlovich:
The percentage at which it was done back then was 8, you say, on average, percent, right?
Obnalshchik:
8-9, that's how it was.
Pavlovich:
But I read, I didn't read, but I know, and from my acquaintance with people in this sphere, that 15, 20, 17 and a half happened, that is, there especially around New Year's.
Obnalshchik:
But around New Year's there is a huge rush, a very huge demand for the services of obnalshchiks, a really huge demand, because, apparently, everyone is closing the year and trying to somehow withdraw money into cash.
Pavlovich:
Well, you see, here, in principle, it is understandable, yes, the reason is even because the same organizations, it doesn't matter whether it is state or private, there, I don't know, the marketing department, for example, advertising on YouTube in December costs almost one and a half to two times more, that's why. Because everyone is draining budgets, if, for example, they had marketing, Phillips had a million dollars for this year, and they did not work it out, next year they can be given much less. They'll see that you only used 900 thousand, why should we give you another million next year? Let's give you 900 thousand, you haven't used it all anyway.
And that's why everyone is trying to get rid of the money in their accounts as much as possible, and that's probably why I think that this is precisely the excitement, and accordingly, the prices for cashing services are growing.
Did you get any bonuses, being a drop
? Casher:
Yes, probably because that's how it is. I didn't go into all these details. Why does the percentage increase? I was worried about my income.
Pavlovich:
But yours didn't increase, right?
Casher:
No, mine didn't increase. Well, of course, there were some simple bonuses. There were some just naut, for example, you got 20 thousand, and that's it. It happened. Just like that, on top.
Your relationship with drops
? Pavlovich:
But all these people, your drops, they are, you could say, the majority, yes, some kind of social individuals, did you have any difficulties with them, some kind of rams, that there were questions, generally friction, that someone underpaid someone, or did not want more, or something else, or maybe they tried to blackmail you with this, something else, or not?
Casher:
Unfortunately, I did not have this. Unfortunately, fortunately. Well, or fortunately, yes. I communicated with the Drop quite well. I did not have any such terrible attitude towards them. I got along very well with them and explained everything normally. It happened that, for example, a certain amount was deposited to the drop, and they simply blocked the account. And, for example, on Friday the amount was deposited, the account was blocked, and that's it.
That is, Saturday and Sunday, not working days, and the drop cannot be allowed to go home, because he knows that his amount was deposited. And it happened that I stayed with him, we rented an apartment, for example, for 2-3 days, and I lived with this drop, so that he would not run away or disappear anywhere.
Pavlovich:
But did he feel like a prisoner, or what? For example, I would have felt the same way if I were in his place.
Casher:
Well, I don’t know if he felt like a prisoner or not, but because, so to speak, I lured him with all sorts of sweets. There were all sorts of deliveries, alcohol, all that stuff without any problems at all.
Pavlovich:
You can’t really lure a drug addict with sweets.
Casher:
Yes, that’s right. Well, that is, I gave them everything they needed, so that they wouldn’t think about anything, wouldn’t think that something was going wrong. And they didn’t try to blackmail me, because I had a pretty good relationship with them. Do
your drops have problems with the law?
Pavlovich:
Did all of them later encounter problems similar to yours, with the tax authorities being called, law enforcement, and so on?
Obnalshchik:
Half of them, yes, half were lucky.
Pavlovich:
Half were simply not bothered and forgotten, right?
Obnalshchik:
Yes, half, so to speak, for some reason the VAT did not fall on them. The VAT fell on half.
Pavlovich:
So what, and they bothered everyone, and they...
Obnalshchik:
So for this half, you could say, on which the VAT fell, some were written off, and some were simply told no, that's it.
Pavlovich:
And now they owe the state a huge amount, right? Yes.
Obnalshchik:
I don't know how things are with this now, but at the time when I was doing this, this VAT was written off quite well. Maybe I was lucky that the VAT was written off, but as far as I know now, VAT is not written off for people, it's just that, for example, a court order comes that that's it, now you have to give there 50% of your salary. And there is VAT, there, they hang 3 to 4 million on people.
Pavlovich:
But they are still social, they usually don't work anywhere. In principle, they don't care about this piece of paper, yes, judging by the contingent with whom you communicated and pulled up the quality of their drops, it seems to me that they don't give a damn.
Casher:
Well, part of it worked out, yes. So, the VAT, on whom they didn't write off, these were just such people who didn't give a damn at all, didn't have any work, led the most social lifestyle.
Pavlovich:
Well, and they were harassed and there was something, maybe they were also threatened with some kind of interrogations, like you, did they publish this whole chain or not?
Casher:
I don't know anymore, I can't answer this question, because I simply, when the work ended, I stopped communicating with them. Well, if they...
Pavlovich:
Changed the phone or what?
Casher:
No. My phone was working, naturally, the main one. They just bothered me, that's all. There were cases when I was called in for questioning. I tell them, behave like this during the interrogation. I told them how I behaved. And, in principle, I had no problems with them. And those who are the most social, they just didn't even come for questioning.
How much money did you earn, how did you spend it
Pavlovich:
How much did you earn on all this activity?
Casher:
About 600-700.
Pavlovich:
That is, not that much at all.
Casher:
In general, pennies, actually. Because there were cases when I had some fines for the fact that, so to speak, I had some screw-ups. There, too, well, somewhere around 600-700 thousand worked. Well, naturally, I quickly lost this money, because I earned it in about 3-4 months, that's it. And right away, for example, when I started having such an income, the attributes of an expensive life, a good life, I immediately rented myself...
Pavlovich:
What kind?
Casher:
I immediately rented myself an apartment at the Universitet metro station with a view of Moscow State University, a two-room apartment, somewhere around 60 or 70 square meters with European-style renovation, really cool, immediately an expensive business taxi, deliveries, I stopped only in good Moscow restaurants, hung out and woke up when he asked to hang out, woke up with the thought that "oh well, whatever, I lost all my money today, tomorrow they will have it again or in a week they will transfer it again, or I will borrow, for example, fifty thousand.
They will give me my salary there soon anyway, well, interest from these people.
Pavlovich:
But at the beginning of the conversation you said that you wanted to earn money for some kind of business.
Casher:
It feels like when I got into it, I changed my mind about it, because I realized that this is a more profitable business.
You were saving up for a rainy day,
Pavlovich:
And there were thoughts, like, for example, in my criminal activity I was constantly, there, earning, there, it doesn’t matter, five, ten, a hundred, I always spent plus or minus five thousand dollars, the rest I put away, well, like for a rainy day, as is customary among Russians, suspecting that sooner or later it would all end. So you didn’t put anything aside?
Casher:
No, I didn’t try to put anything aside. Only later, probably about two weeks ago, did this thought come to me, because I hadn’t been working for long, 3-4 months, and it so happened that I had been partying and having fun all this time, and the thought that it could end sooner or later didn’t cross my mind. Only later, when I had already partied plus or minus, eaten my fill and, so to speak, was already full and already understood that I needed to put money aside, and it wouldn’t last forever.
That’s it. And I put aside some small amount, saved up, tried to open a business, but failed.
Methods for extending the viability of a drop
Pavlovich:
What should have been done to extend as much as possible, that is, the life of a legal entity, well, and the drop as a whole?
Casher:
To extend their life, it was necessary to open a lot of accounts in order to have the ability to transfer this money, but...
Pavlovich:
If they start to block them.
Casher:
Yes, if they start. But these guys who were engaged in this activity had this trick that they simply poured the maximum into the account before blocking, and immediately transferred this money. That is, they did not care how long this given drop, this account, would live, they simply poured it in at the maximum, that's it, it is blocked on another account, it is blocked in another. That is, they really illegally, you could say, poured in at the maximum.
Pavlovich:
That is, the first transaction there is the largest.
Casher:
Yes, yes, yes. They drained a lot, immediately poured it into the accounts.
Pavlovich:
That is, well, in principle, maybe this is right, yes, because, well, they will block you there not on the first try, but on the third, fourth, and you for these small attempts, you pour a little, once, well, it was probably easier to pour once.
Casher:
I asked them why they do this, why they provide me with some documentation, I say, well, you have documentation, for example, where this money came from, and so on, and so forth, they said, no, it is much easier to pour a huge amount, because in any case this account is blocked, and then, when you provide documentation, it can be constantly blocked, blocked, blocked for smaller amounts, and each time it is simply unprofitable to do this, it takes a lot of time.
The attitude of those close to you to your type of activity
Pavlovich:
Yes, that kind of peculiar sex. Did anyone close to you know that you were involved in this kind of activity?
Casher:
Yes, yes.
Pavlovich:
And how did they evaluate it?
Casher:
Quite negatively, so to speak, because they didn’t understand why. And I explained to them, oh well, the guys are good, they won’t screw me over, everything’s fine, and so on and so forth.
Pavlovich:
Well, they won’t screw me over, but what about your girlfriend, for example, your mother, and so on, so were you afraid that you’d get jailed, was that the case?
Casher:
Yes, there were such concerns, naturally, but thank God.
Pavlovich:
And what did you explain?
Casher:
Well, damn, the most basic explanation was that at the level I was doing it, they couldn’t put you in jail for it. That is, the maximum for it would be a suspended sentence or some kind of fine, even from the point of view of the law. And that’s what I operated on. Maybe, probably, such a response to them was stupid, but... But everyone was happy. Yes, everyone was happy. And, probably, he calmed himself down with this.
Maybe, like, they could have put me in jail if, for example, good people had not been caught, so to speak.
Extracting additional profit from money in accounts, cashing out periods
Pavlovich:
But look, for example, during the time, money came into your account, yes, well, someone else's, like, cashed out on your drops, and you have some time there, you can turn them over, say, to some kind of urgent deposit, there, for a few days in the bank and so on, that is, you didn't do it like that?
Casher:
In order to get interest?
Pavlovich:
Yes, well, how to extract some additional profit from this other people's money, while it's lying there in your accounts.
Casher:
They had a trick about cashing out from the table.
Pavlovich:
What does that mean?
Casher:
This is when, for example, you meet, like we met, you say that you need to cash out 5 million. You transfer me these 5 million, and I give them to you right away.
Pavlovich:
Well, how long does it take in total? How many days does the whole process take?
Casher:
Right away. That is, you, say, transferred money to me, I gave it to you right away. That's it. Well, for that, of course, the percentage was much higher.
Pavlovich:
And if the cashing out wasn't that urgent, then how long does the whole procedure take in total? From the moment, say, the money entered my current account today, I mean the drop account, until you already...
Casher:
It was about three to ten days.
Pavlovich:
Three to ten days. Yes.
Casher:
Because it happened that this money would be immediately poured in. How did this even happen? For example, there was a line of people, those who wanted to have money. And how they would pour their money in, and it would turn out that, for example, the first person who poured it into a new drop, all the money was poured in from him, everything was withdrawn well, withdrawn well, and was immediately given to him. And there were cases when, for example, an account fell under 115, and while they were waiting for this account to be unfrozen, until the money left it, it would happen that another account would be frozen too, it was necessary to transfer it to another account.
And all sorts of difficulties occurred, and it would happen that it would drag on for up to 10 days.
How they fight against cashing out
Pavlovich:
Well, you could very well get a job in a bank, knowing how it all works, yes, get a job in a bank and fight scammers, that cashing out. By the way, do you know how they fight against cashing-out methods now?
Casher:
I know that now, at the slightest suspicion, the account is immediately blocked, and not without any discussions. That is, for example, when I was already leaving this activity, a law was passed in some banking sector that accounts were simply frozen as quickly as possible, not even some amount, just a small amount was deposited there and the account was immediately blocked.
Pavlovich:
Well, now, for example, it is quite simple for a computer system, where there are all these huge arrays of data and numbers, because now they want to make even for individuals, for example, a suspicion that you are engaged in cashing out or are conducting some kind of commercial activity that is not registered in the established manner, well, illegal entrepreneurial, let's say, this is one of the criteria. You received money and then it quickly went to another card, for example, and everything is clear that you are just an intermediary and simply accepted, gave and, maybe, kept some amount for yourself.
That is, this is already for individuals, for example, when Mishustin headed the government, that is, this is being introduced, and with legal entities, well, this can be tracked in principle using the same principle, yes, they came and went, they came and went, that is, for example, in my legal companies, I don’t have any others, but in general, yes, my company always has money in its account.
That is, they came, we paid something to the office, we rent the employees’ salaries with the account, for example, but the bulk of the money is there. We almost never have such a thing that they came and left an hour later. And if something did go there within an hour, then these were some small household needs, maybe one tenth of what was entered into the account. And, in principle, our company cannot be blocked for anything, yes.
When they came and immediately left, the entire amount, then this is, of course, some kind of cashing out.
Casher:
Well, naturally, because you work legally. And there, as you said, money was poured in. For example, a notification would come that money had been received into the account, into the final account. Then we would immediately be standing at the bank branch.
Pavlovich:
An hour later, yes.
Casher:
Yes, and that is, even there it was, look, it came, look, we already knew, that is, we transferred the money to this account. We would already be on our way to the bank branch where, say, our tellers sit, who can give us this amount. And a notification would simply come, we would go into the bank and immediately withdraw the money.
Pavlovich:
But banks, look, those same protsinists and others, if they wanted, yes, they understood what you were doing, they could just call the tax office and so on, and you would come for this money, if someone needed it, and a capture group would already be waiting for you there.
Casher:
As far as I know, they closed one bank in Moscow because of this, namely a branch of the bank, precisely because the bank, namely this branch, was engaged in this activity.
How can you cheat a drop?
Pavlovich:
Look, my friends who were engaged in cashing out, yes, there was a situation when a person says, I transferred to your account, shows a payment order that the money was supposedly sent, but the money did not reach their account, and there were such showdowns, they even brought in bandits to understand who was right or not. Is it possible to cheat a casher somehow?
Casher:
Yes, there are good ways, but what you told me is a pretty stupid way, in my opinion, because you can just ask the bank whether there really was such a payment order, and, in principle, that's it. Here the whole solution to the problem is like that, in my opinion, again. They cheated cashers quite cleverly, and it was precisely from the side of law enforcement agencies. For example, they somehow accidentally found out, for example, that, for example, some drop exists here, money is somehow deposited to it, for example, they turned these drops in at the bank.
There were those who, in cooperation with this, for example, with some police, reported that some, some drop, was withdrawing money, there were suspicions that he was engaged in cashing out. The police officers caught this drop, and that was it, and at first they pressed him really hard, like bandits. And they said, well, that's it, in short, when, for example, you receive a sum of money, you tell some bank branch, we'll come by, you'll tell us when you withdraw the money, we'll just quickly detain you with this money.
And that's how it was, the police took and threw the cashers like that.
Pavlovich:
That's not enough, right?
Casher:
Oh, yeah.
Pavlovich:
Well, was there any demand for the drop afterwards or not?
Casher:
It was, so to speak, in partners, those who were cashers, all these stories happened, because fortunately in our environment, where all this happened, there were these moments, so to speak, there was honest cashing and honest relations between employees and colleagues. But these were enough, so to speak, not from third parties, not from third parties, but right here in the story, when, for example, a person who was screwed like that told about it.
Pavlovich:
And do you know of any other schemes?
Casher:
Actually, it doesn’t come to my mind right now, but there are quite a lot of schemes like this... Well, the most primitive thing, as you said, is that everyone just stupidly translated and said, no, nothing, goodbye, we don’t care. There are such, yes, frostbitten people.
Pavlovich:
There I just now remembered in more detail this story of mine, and there it was that the person says, yes, the money came, I am responsible for it, but they froze all my accounts and so on, and such a delay, you know, I, maybe, will return it someday, and you end up in a situation where you can’t do anything, like, those people to whom you offered to cash out, they transferred, and you did
n’t cash it yourself, but I, for example, turned out to be an intermediary, I, it turns out, accepted money from some, they actually transferred it, I transferred it to you, and you say that you have some problems, I will give it back someday, but you are in collusion with the one who, you know, that is, I am the scapegoat, and you are in collusion with that guy, that is, he transferred, the money came to you, you sawed it up there, settled accounts with each other, and I kind of owe, because my
drop, let's say, the money was deposited, but he can't give it back for some reason, but demands it from me. Now I remembered in more detail the scheme that was, yes. And it's just that the drop and the one who took the money, threw it, they're just in cahoots, you know?
Casher:
For example, it happens, yes, I told you once, from the drop, these are the people who just catch, so to speak, the drop, they ask him and understand that, well, there's no point in catching anything from him at all. It happens that the drop, more often than not, doesn't even know that this happened. He sort of withdrew the money, worked it off, and then he shouldn't care what happens to this money.
Reasons for stopping this business
Pavlovich:
What was the reason that you got involved in this business?
Casher:
The reason was that VAT fell on me. When I, for example, had already worked for 2-3 weeks, it fell somewhere after 2-3 months. Only then did it fall on me sometime. And it turned out that I told these guys so and so that I had VAT, they called me in for questioning, they came to me with arrests. And somehow it turned out that they began to communicate less. And at first we hung out there, constantly relaxed, stopped inviting to parties, stopped somehow getting in touch.
They said something like, okay, we will solve this problem for you, don't worry. Well, basically, so that I just didn't ask them unnecessary questions. And the communication simply came to naught. And I was left to solve this problem with my debt myself.
Pavlovich:
Well, in the end it ended successfully. Thanks, probably, yes, to the same employees, that is, the tax.
Casher:
Probably, per day, yes.
Pavlovich:
They just met you halfway.
Casher:
This is actually surprising, by the way. The way I hear from everyone about how terrible our government is, how terribly it works. Damn, well, I was purely by chance, relatively lucky, with the kind of employees I got from these agencies, because they treated me quite well. As good as possible.
Pavlovich:
Well, imagine how they laughed inside, yes, when they understand who you are, what you are, you tell them such fairy tales. There for three hours, they are adults, everyone is sitting, well, well, well, well. And then you hop, such a sharp shot from the side. So we hang 2.8 million on you. And you are like, ahh, no, stop, stop, guys.
Casher:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. They laughed right at that moment. It was enough. It was not funny at that moment. But such an atmosphere was there, the atmosphere was extremely relaxed. Relaxed. This is when everyone is having fun, everything is good, everything is already wonderful, everyone understood what is going on. And so it is.
What lessons did you learn for yourself
? Pavlovich:
What did this incident teach you? It didn't give you much money, yes, but you lived a little of this dolcevita, this sweet life.
Obnalshchik:
You know, they look for whom a little. For example, if for some ordinary provincial, for example, from somewhere in the Novgorod region, Novosibirsk, such provincial small towns, then for them,
Pavlovich:
Navosibirsk is not small.
Obnalshchik:
Well, there, Omsk, Perm, those are the cities. For them, these are amounts of money, well, quite huge. You can, oh my God, buy an apartment there. For example, when I heard that I spent that money there, there, in 4 months, they would say, okay, I would buy an apartment for that money, something like that, a three-room apartment. I don’t know what the prices are there, roughly. But for Moscow, for example, these 600-700 thousand, well, that’s ridiculous money, you can even, well, how much? Well, you can’t live on that for six months.
Pavlovich:
Yes, a month.
Cash-out:
Well, it seems to me that you can live on that for exactly 2-3 months. That is, roughly, how much an apartment costs in Moscow, you can’t rent an apartment now, you can rent an apartment in Moscow for at least 40 thousand now. And that money was gone so quickly. This story also taught me that it is better to earn money legally and honestly, because the consequences that may occur are not equivalent to the money you earned. And in this case, this is what happened to me.
The money that I, so to speak, earn now, requires much less effort, so to speak, and risks, but it earns enough. Well, more or less normally.
Pavlovich:
And at the same time, you are not worried about your freedom?
Casher:
Yes, I am not worried at all. That's it. I was afraid that I would have consequences, that they would put some kind of stamp on me in some database that I would no longer be able to work in some agencies, normal companies, large ones, that I would not be able to pass the security service. But I worked as a programmer, I work as a programmer now, I worked as a programmer in one bank, in the fintech department and in the lending department.
And I was surprised that the security service let me in there. And gave me all the access and so on and so forth.
Pavlovich:
Well, in general, I guess you can say that you were really lucky given the situation itself, that the tax authorities met you halfway, and the universe itself probably shows you that everything is fine now, that it hasn't affected you in any way. It probably just shows that you and other young people who could be in your place, and maybe will be, shouldn't get involved in crime, especially now.
Casher:
Now it's generally pointless to get involved in this stage, in crime at all, because there are just a ton of ways to do practically nothing and earn normal money. And even Yandex.Courier. How much do they earn, 60-70, in Moscow?
Pavlovich:
Yes, during the pandemic, yes, salaries went up.
Casher:
Well, that is, well, 60-70 thousand, oh my god, doctors don't earn that much. And here's some Yandex.Courier, like, here, earn money. And, in principle, 60-70 thousand in Moscow should be enough for you to live, I think. That's a normal amount.
What is the most important thing in life for you
Pavlovich:
And the last question. What, in your opinion, is the most important thing in life?
Casher:
Happiness and peace and freedom.
Results
Pavlovich:
Thank you for coming. A big thanks for the instructive story, right? I think for everyone. Friends, thank you for reading. Write any questions or wishes under the topic, and don't get into crime, because for our guest today everything ended well, and for me it once didn't end very well. And in whose place you will end up, that is, whether you will be able to get out of the water dry, like our hero today, or not, like me, well, this basically does not even depend on you, but on luck and on the will, so to speak, of the Universe.
Therefore, now we have many more opportunities to earn money legally. Hugs, bye.
