Cloned Boy
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BANK ACCOUNT SELLER.
Sergey Pavlovich talked to a masked guest who sells crypto exchange accounts and European bank accounts.
How crypto exchange accounts and bank accounts are registered in Europe, how droppers are searched for, who buys accounts and accounts and for what purpose, what difficulties there are, how much you can earn on this - this and much more in this topic.
Enjoy reading!
Contents:
Introduction
Pavlovich:
Hello, friends. Today we are filming about European bank accounts. Who makes them, how, why, why and for how much they can be sold or how they can be used in another way. Hello. Hello. The mask looks like a sheet. How did you even end up like this?
Fraudster:
Well, how did you end up like this is putting it bluntly. I am generally happy that I ended up like this. A year ago, I was working at a construction site. I had an industrial injury. I had no arm or leg, roughly speaking, I walked with a crutch.
Pavlovich:
Now I have them, they have grown back.
Fraudster:
Yes, they have all grown back. I returned to my provincial town. And by a lucky chance they offered me a job. They said it like this. Register European banks using drawn documents. They put me in an office. I sat there for a month or two. Basically, I bought out the topic. The office closed. I returned home and continued to develop it.
Pavlovich:
Why did it close?
Fraudster:
It didn't work at that moment. And then over time I realized that not all banks open to drawings, which have a stronger security system that does not allow drawings. And the question arose of how to find European drops. I began to study this topic and eventually found them.
Pavlovich:
Drops?
Fraudster:
Yes. I started registering for drops.
How does a drop convince
Pavlovich:
How do you convince drops that let's open with your data, everyone will have questions, if you drive some dirty money, I will be imprisoned, etc., etc. Well, of course.
Fraudster:
Of course, yes. But the dough solves the problem. After all, we pay them. More often than not, a drop is a person who, roughly speaking, does not even have money there to live on today. Therefore, an extra 50-100 dollars for them is a significant amount to open an account of some kind.
Pavlovich:
And how much do you pay to a European drop, for example?
Fraudster:
It's always different. For example, let's take a regular verification, the SamSub verifier. Are you familiar with it?
Pavlovich:
No.
Fraudster:
Well, this is the most popular verifier in Europe. A lot of banks and crypto exchanges use it. Verification of such a SamSub costs about 40-50 dollars. It's done very quickly. That is, a friend just logs in, scans his document, scans his face, that's it. If he is not in the block, the verification is passed.
Pavlovich:
Well, what is the verification for? I've only gone through verification on crypto exchanges and in bookmakers.
Fraudster:
Well, verification is needed to get an account, get some crypto exchange, get a bank for yourself. And then I put it up for sale.
How often do drops try to steal an account
Pavlovich:
Well, let's go from simple to complex: crypto exchanges, you register an account on a crypto exchange using his data.
Fraudster:
I take my number, my email and give them to him so that he can register using my data. Then he logs into the account, logs in, writes down all his data, and completes verification. I take this account for myself. Well, and before that, I ask for a photo of his documents and a screenshot of the application deletion so that he doesn't sit there. And that's it. Everything is elementary.
Pavlovich:
But he can still restore it.
Fraudster:
Of course. That is, this is a high-margin business, and, naturally, there are big risks here.
Pavlovich:
It's simple, I recently restored an account, knocked down the factor. They say, well, like, send a bunch of documents and that's it, but in principle, this is not a problem. This is not a problem. And how often do drops then get into these accounts and try to scam, withdraw the money that is there?
Fraudster:
Quite often. And in this theory, I think I'm lucky at the moment. I still have all this ahead of me, but the maximum damage was a thousand dollars, which was restored by the drop account and stole the money. I had to place it. I heard that my colleagues in the shop had much worse situations. And there is no escape from this. That is, the drop can hijack the account in any case.
Pavlovich:
Okay. Who needs such an unreliable account on the crypto exchange then?
Fraudster:
Well, how can I say unreliable? Because if in case of any problems... If, for example, look, this is how I work. I am fully responsible for the money in the account. If they were hijacked by my drop, I reimburse them. But if a blocking from the bank arrives, it is no longer my problem. I can only help with the blocking.
Pavlovich:
But if tomorrow I buy you an account, let's say, put my money there, I don't know, honest, dishonest, of any origin, yes, and a fraction steals my, I don't know, 300 thousand dollars, what then? Where will you get 300 thousand dollars to compensate me?
Fraudster:
So, well, look, 300 thousand dollars is such an amount that will be driven directly into a legal account, into a business bank, because an ordinary...
Pavlovich:
I'm not talking about a bank, I'm still talking about a crypto exchange.
Fraudster:
Well, in that case, I don't even know what to do, but I'll have to resolve this issue, or leave this business. And there is no other way.
Pavlovich:
Exit scam, in short.
Fraudster:
Because, well, how else? There is no other way. Either you resolve the issue, or that's it.
Pavlovich:
And it is impossible to insure yourself.
Fraudster:
Yes. The only option is, for example, to make a crypto exchange on the drawing. Then it will be done completely without the participation of the drop. He will not know. Yes. It will be very safe. But the thing is that not all crypto exchanges are made on the drawing.
Pavlovich:
Well, for example, who is not made on the drawing?
Fraudster:
Binance. Binance is not made? Binance can be made now using the deepfake method. But I am not yet well-versed in this topic. We are studying it. But, for example, you will never make it on the drawing. Well, it just won’t work. It won’t pass. Why? Because there is a Samsung verifier, and it burns out the drawings.
Pavlovich:
Okay. And how much is the account, for example, you made an account on the drop, Binance, for example, give me, how much can you sell it for?
Fraudster:
It depends on the case. If it is an ordinary one, for example, a European one, its price will be around 100-150 dollars. If it's some English, UKash on Binance, then, well, 150 and up. But Binance has such a price for it because it's like the main crypto exchange. I trust it the most.
Pavlovich:
Well, there's a lot of stomping in the world now. Yes. In second place, by the way, do you know which one? Coinbase. I just read it, but it's American. Most likely, the FBI, INB and CIA have direct access to it, most likely. But, nevertheless, their shares have given plus 140% in a year. So you have Coinbase. Good. 100-150 dollars, there, let's say, 150, the rest are less, right?
Fraudster:
Yes.
Pavlovich:
And is there any demand for them at all?
Fraudster:
Specifically, there's little demand for crypto exchanges. The main demand is for banks. And cards? And cards, respectively. Well, banks have cards. Naturally, if people need cards, they buy a bank. Well, yes. I don't sell cards separately.
How to open an account on a drop now
Pavlovich:
How to open an account on a European drop now in 2025?
Fraudster:
From the very beginning. This is how the mechanics of my work happen. Then I get some virtual number, or I register it on my FIS number, on some English SIM card, and so on. But it is best for sale, so that you can then easily transfer the account and do it on a virtual number. I buy a virtual number, make my own mail, give this data to the drop, agree with him on payment, how much I will pay him for this action. Then he simply registers with a bank or a crypto exchange using my data, goes through verification.
When I see that it is successfully completed, I take photos of documents from him, a screenshot of the application deletion, so that he does not sit there and does not see anything that is happening on his account. That's it, all this is successfully completed, I pay for his account.
About working with virtual numbers
Pavlovich:
Virtual number for long-term rent or what?
Fraudster:
Yes.
Pavlovich:
It's just that there's SMS-activate, if you take, yes, the link, for example, is under the video. There you can take it for a one-time SMS reception, Or you can, like, take it for several months, for three, then extend it. Do you mean for a long-term lease?
Fraudster:
Of course. It's just that activation is not suitable, because then, in order to use the bank, you need to receive SMS for card transactions, for example, to log in to the bank itself. So only for lease. The service is there. Okay.
Pavlovich:
But SMS-activate, online, SIM, now there are two services.
Fraudster:
SIM and SMS are a good service now. Hashed. Until recently, it was one of the best services. It's just that for some reason it blocked it now, it blocked all my accounts, and many banks flew. They blocked it without explaining the reason.
Pavlovich:
Well, that means it's no longer a normal service.
Fraudster:
It's no longer a normal service, yes.
Pavlovich:
Because with the same SMS-activate, Oleg was with us once or twice, he was filmed in our episodes, in principle, they won’t block me. I can call, say that they screwed me up, which is why my account was blocked. Well, in general, it’s not very good when just the SMS-activate service blocks you, all without explaining the reasons.
Fraudster:
SMS-activate, please make it so that numbers can be taken longer than a month, because this is a problem. If they make it so that numbers can be rented longer than a month, they would be priceless. I would only work with them.
Pavlovich:
Well, maybe, I think this is not only, probably, your wish. Maybe they have some reasons for this? Because what difference does it make to them? Even on GOC, yes, a person will pay and pay, yes, apparently, maybe some technical ones. Oleg, if you watch the episode, write why you only have it for a month. Well, okay. It's clear from the technical side.
How to confuse a drop
Pavlovich:
How to confuse a person so that he goes and opens a bank account for you in Europe?
Fraudster:
Now I don't have any problems with this at all. I don't know why. I've never even had such a problem. My drop doesn't care what I'm going to do with these accounts. Do you understand? It's just that a drop is initially a person who registers an account in his own name. He has some financial difficulties in any case. He has no choice. And he really wants to get an easy 50-100 dollars.
Pavlovich:
And how much do you pay him?
Fraudster:
Well, it depends on what kind of verification.
Pavlovich:
Well, like a bank, register it in your own name, open a bank, for example.
Fraudster:
Well, look. In his country, I mean. Yes, yes, yes, that's it. If we're talking about physical banks, which I don't like to work with. So what is a physical bank? It means that in the country where the drop is located, it has a physical branch of the bank. Such banks are restored just like that, with the snap of a finger. By calling the bank or if they contact the support service there. There are very big risks here, so I try not to register such banks. Or for overpriced ones, which I'm ready to take such a risk on myself.
I mainly work with neobanks. Neobanks are banks that do not have land-based offices, they work on the Internet.
Pavlovich:
Well, Vice, Revolut, something else.
Fraudster:
That's exactly what we try to work with. If, for example, Revolut is a good bank, many drops have already reregistered it, so the price for it will be higher. You can pay $100 for a revolution, a drop. He will make it for himself. It also depends on the country. For example, the sweetest place to find yourself drops is the Baltic countries. It just happened that way, I don't know why. Most likely, their standard of living is not that high. The drops just write to you there.
Give me a job, give me a job, let's do something, and so on. If we go closer...
Pavlovich:
In Lithuanian?
Fraudster:
Yes, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia. These are the main countries I work with.
The further west, the more expensive the drops are and the harder it is to find them. Take Telegram, there is 90% air from Kama. The market is alive, in general, a lot of deals are concluded. It doesn't matter how much money you have, it will still be little. With legal entities, it's just sex. It's a very marginal business.
The further west, the more difficult
Fraudster:
If you go further west, the further west, the more expensive the drops are, the harder it is to find them.
Conventionally, in the entire history of my work in the UK, I have not had a single drop from there. Either Latvians who live there, or Estonians who moved there to live. Or you open a bank there on some English drawing. But if it’s some kind of business account, then I just take a drop from the Baltics, open a company in England and open English business banks there.
Pavlovich:
But how much does it cost to open a company in England?
Fraudster:
I know how to open one for free.
Pavlovich:
But in general, there are overhead costs anyway?
Fraudster:
No. To open a company in England, you don’t need any money at all. It’s done online through the website.
Pavlovich:
Is this Company House something like that?
Fraudster:
I’ve never opened a “House” company there, even through it. There are many other services that allow you to open a company without any problems.
Pavlovich:
Well, I just opened it, my cost price was about 300 dollars. If you open it through a company somewhere, they charge a grand, plus they charge about a thousand or maybe even more than a dollar a year for its maintenance, for giving you the denomination drops and for all that accounting crap.
Fraudster:
Of course, they push their services.
Pavlovich:
Yes, this whole thing costs several thousand dollars a year. And I opened it myself, it cost me 300 dollars. But the problem, as far as I remember, was this, the address. That is, the address at which it will be registered. That is, the residence address, so to speak.
Fraudster:
After the interview, I can show you where you can open it for free.
Pavlovich:
Well, okay. You open it, let's say, to the same Latysh, right? That is, what is the legal address in this case?
Fraudster:
It will be an address in England. It can be made directly to the address of the receiver in England. A receiver is a person in England who earns his living by accepting envelopes, accepting cards to his addresses. For example, some business banks are opened under the card acceptance mechanism, and then, when you enter the bank, you have to enter all the card data or some code from the envelope. That is, you can just take the address from the receiver right away, agree with him on the terms that you will pay them so much for the envelope, plus throw in some money for the fact that you are, roughly speaking, opening a company to his address.
And that's it. You just write this address later during the process of opening the company. There are no problems.
Pavlovich:
It is better to open a company in England. It's just, well, I have opened there in other European countries now. Well, there are certain difficulties. You still have to pay for the drop. One company there provided me with a drop, opened it. Well, it doesn't cost as much money as in England, there, a few thousand dollars a year, but cheaper.
But still, probably dollars for a drop, for an address and for such minimal accounting services, probably six hundred euros, probably, at least a year I pay.
Fraudster:
Well, in England I open a company for free and do not pay anything for it. I have never opened a company in Europe, so I am not competent in this matter.
Pavlovich:
Well, okay, we opened a company in England, and we open a business Revolute, for example, yes, or a business Vice.
Fraudster:
We open the process of creating a business bank in general, for example, using Vice as an example. Vice is the simplest bank for us that can be opened for your company. It opens in no time. They do not have any questions. The only thing is that they ask to pay a commission of 45 pounds for opening your account. Well, the chance that you, even for your company, which you just opened, the chance that this Vice will be opened for you, is almost 90%.
No documents need to be forged. Nothing needs to be drawn. Just upload the company, upload the director's documents. You don't even need a selfie. Even the director will never know that this Vice was made in his name.
About questions from
Pavlovich Bank:
Well, I have this Vice, I have two Vice. You see, one business profile, one personal. And I had a problem with my business, in general, they blocked one of them, well, they didn't block it, but they suspended it a little, they started sending me letters that you, please, provide where you got the money for the company and so
on, and in general your income, expenses, but this was resolved by me asking in ChatGPT, I say generate me a loan agreement and that's it, and it turns out that it generated a loan agreement and we wrote to Vice that this money that comes here, this is the founder of the company contributing his personal funds to the company for all sorts of current operational needs. And it may be not only the founder's personal money, but also third parties'.
But this all goes according to loan agreement number one, let's say. Here. And they left you alone after that, yes. Very clever. It just happened.
Fraudster:
For example, if questions arise on legal accounts, where the money came from, you can provide them with an invoice. An invoice is like...
Pavlovich:
Well, you sold, I don't know, 10 phones or the best electronic product, like some antivirus software, or made a website for them.
Fraudster:
Yes. This is a document, it's very easy to make. Well, literally in 10 minutes. You make it and send it to them. Like, here, I report to you on this money. Elementary.
Pavlovich:
And that's it, right?
Fraudster:
Yes. It may not always work out that way. Depending on where the money came from.
Pavlovich:
Binance just asked me, he said, explain your income to the exchange in general. Something like we'll give you a month. I have a couple of days left there, I need to explain, sit down. I don’t know, crypto exchanges, what difference does it make to them, the money coming in there is clean, not sanctioned at all, not from Dark, nothing at all, not from Dragstore, especially. Well, I don’t know, they’ve picked on something. European account. Okay, that’s clear. Company, Vice, Revolute.
How long does the whole process take
? Pavlovich:
And how long does the whole process take? If tomorrow I asked you, for example, to open an office in England for me and a Vice business, for example.
Fraudster:
If it’s an office and a Vice business, it will take a week maximum. Because the process of creating a company needs to be set aside another four days, because it will be opened and so on. The Vice business itself can be done in about three hours.
Pavlovich:
Okay, that means we’ll do it in a week. Sure. And Revolute?
Fraudster:
Here I can’t even give a specific deadline, because it may be that I’ll set up a company, draw a website, and everyone will do it. And why do I need a website? Well, a website so that your company is more confident. So that when they check it, they’ll see that the company has a website.
Pavlovich:
Will Revolute check it or who?
Fraudster:
Of course. Well, if you have a website, the company, then it looks more serious, you must admit. Again, I can’t give an exact deadline, because everything will look beautiful, but they simply won’t approve of me. Because, for example, the company “Svezhak”. They didn’t like the company, maybe they didn’t like its activity. A good activity for opening accounts is resale here, some architects, some charitable foundations. All this is good for opening business accounts.
Pavlovich:
But do you indicate these OKVD areas of the company’s activity in England?
Fraudster:
Yes, of course.
Pavlovich:
I just don’t remember anymore.
Fraudster:
Of course, you need to specify. I mainly open for retail, like, resale.
Pavlovich:
So, Revolute checks everything like that, right?
Fraudster:
Yes, they have a good system.
Pavlovich:
Vice just opens it without any problems.
Fraudster:
Yes, Vice just opens it. Revolute, a more serious security system. There are banks that are really hard to open. For example, AirValex or Vamo Business, they will ask you for photos of your goods, invoices, and again these checks, Statements from business banks that you already have as proof of a business address, that the company is engaged in some kind of activity.
They ask a lot of questions, and these questions need to be improvised, somehow answered, documents forged. So you need to draw? Yes, that's the kind of work. And again, you asked a question about the time frame for Revolute, I can't give them. Maybe you'll have to open three companies before it goes through. Can I tell you the cost?
Pavlovich:
Go ahead.
Fraudster:
The Revolute business for an English company is currently worth about a thousand dollars on the market. That is, if there is also an open merchant, then you can sell 100 coins for 1,300. What is a merchant? You mean... Well, an internal seller's account. That is, cards are already entered there and so on.
Pavlovich:
So that the guys can enter, sit, right? As one of the directions. And how long does such an account last if they start entering fake cards? Until charges fly. Well, that's a week maximum. Well, yes. Even a few days.
Fraudster:
Well, that's really dirty use. An account there won't last long.
Pavlovich:
No Stripe? We have demand.
Fraudster:
Stripe has a very good demand, a very good demand, well, because it is the basis, roughly speaking, through Stripe they withdraw via 2D, well, 2DS cards and a lot of people work through it to accept payments from clients via cards.
Pavlovich:
We just recently opened Stripe for ourselves in a European office, well, without any questions at all, without a hitch, without a hitch.
Fraudster:
After you ran the equal amount of 100 euros, you were asked to trust the director, right?
Pavlovich:
No, we haven’t run anything yet. We are just setting everything up in test mode, polishing the mappi. We haven’t run any money through it yet.
Fraudster:
Is the director in touch with you? Yes, it’s my wife. If you run a small amount, you will need to go through verification.
Pavlovich:
So it will ask for a strike?
Fraudster:
Yes. So the drop needs to be alive and in touch. The only nuance in the strike is that the market price is about 400-500 dollars, depending on who you buy from. Well, a little. Well, a little, yes. And registration is not difficult. They take a lot of time. The only thing is that you need to have the director in touch - go through additional certification, which the strike will request. I have a business in accounts, I do them for commercial purposes, for the purpose of further sale.
Pavlovich:
Well, that is, you earn on resale, you just have overhead costs, some for drops, for opening, for rendering, and then you need to sell them.
Fraudster:
Yes. Everything is in a legitimate business. Bought cheaper, sold more expensive. Here I wanted to say that what I like about business banks is that Drop is practically unable to restore it. That's the whole point. That's why I'm moving more in this direction now. Drop will not be able to restore it, even if he is the director, he will need documents, some companies, and so on. And that's why business accounts are much more reliable. That is, there are simply blockages here, perhaps.
That is why I really like the business banking theme now. And we continue to work on it.
The most popular banks for work
Pavlovich:
And what neobanks do you know?
Fraudster:
The most popular ones are Revolut, Vice, Aikart. Some kind of Bankera is a good bank. There are a lot of very virtual cards there. But there are a lot of them, in general, it doesn’t even immediately come to mind now.
Pavlovich:
Are these tens or hundreds around the world?
Fraudster:
Tens and only relevant ones that buy well. And there are hundreds of them. There are a lot of them. It's just that there is no demand for most of them. That's why banks are bought. There is such a client, a very good one, I love them very much, these are betters, those who are engaged in betting, forks. B365. Yes, exactly, and others. Bonus hunters, those who play off bonuses on these forks, they need withdrawals from these forks to the bookmaker's office to the banks.
These are just the sweetest such clients, they have enough money, I like their approach to work, and the bulk of clients come from there. That is, you need to find a bank that would somehow make a deposit on the bet, or withdraw it. If you found such a bank, register it and sell it, catch a coin. Or there are such guys as arbitrageurs.
They need cards, so that there are many cards, or many accounts, so that they link them to personal accounts, there, to some advertising ones, and then work off your bank. There are such clients as carders. That is, it has not gone away. They mainly buy some crypto exchanges where there is a card top-up. If you found such a crypto exchange that easily eats cards through 3DS, put it on stream and sell it.
Pavlovich:
But you need an SMS through 3DS.
Fraudster:
Well, yes, so there are systems there that allow you to get them. Or you made some kind of business bank, there is an internal merchant or something like that that allows you to write off a large number of cards through 2D.
Pavlovich:
That is, to scan other people's cards, like buyers.
Fraudster:
Well, yes, of course, these guys also have a lot of money, and they are also my clients.
Pavlovich:
So, in a year of construction, it turns out that you have built your own small drop service, figuratively speaking.
Fraudster:
Well, yes, a small drop service.
How to look for drops
Pavlovich:
You could say so. Search for drops. That's how I understand it, these chains, okay, there are companies and stuff, but you need to look for drops. When we were looking for clothing carding, we needed to send from the States, we ordered there, let's say, to a local address. We looked for them through ads, usually about finding a job. And usually they weren't even privy to the details. That is, you'll receive a parcel, you'll just get an invoice there or put in an invoice with a smaller amount and send it there, I don't know, to Ukraine, for example.
We searched the way you search.
Fraudster:
Thank you, Pasha Durov, Telegram. It's just that when I had such a question, where to find drops, I went to Telegram. I spent a lot of time there, found chats, some places where they could hang out.
Pavlovich:
With workers, essentially?
Fraudster:
No, not with workers, that's a separate market. There are people who sit in chats and do verifications on themselves. I just came across such chats.
Pavlovich:
So, they themselves directly offer me to become a drop? Yes. So, you don’t even have to look, there, confuse with all sorts of job offers, something else?
Fraudster:
Well, at the moment you don’t have to at all, because I already have my own chat with drops and so on, and, like, there are already permanent drops, where I... Ah, droppers. Well, the most important thing is to contact them. Found yourself a dropper, this person will bring you fifty people.
Pavlovich:
Well, how to find, if here, of course, we even filmed a dropper in the Russian Federation, there is no problem finding in the CIS. But I just can’t imagine how to look for a Western dropper. In Telegram chats.
Fraudster:
I just sat, spent time in these chats, looked for something new, looked for people who can do verifications. I went, so to speak, to my, roughly speaking, colleagues who are engaged in similar activities with me. Somehow, through them, I looked at what they were doing, looked at their chat, looked at what people were doing verifications there. I took these people for myself. These are the methods. Simply through the Internet, through Telegram, through communication.
How would you assess the market?
Pavlovich:
How would you assess the volume of the market for sold accounts of the same Vice, Revolute, all neobanks.
Fraudster:
Well, I would assess it as a very good market now.
Pavlovich:
No, I understand, but in terms of sold accounts, the count is in the thousands, there, sold per month, in the tens of thousands, in the hundreds of thousands.
Fraudster:
Look, I can explain it to you how. There is one grant, it is called Gross, and it already has somewhere around 30 thousand transactions. And it turns out that when I started this topic, it had 13 thousand transactions a year ago. That is, it is not difficult to calculate how many transactions took place in a year. This is only through it. A very stifling amount. This is only through one grant, and there are many grants. Therefore, the market is alive.
In general, a lot of transactions are concluded. These banks are needed by many people.
Where to look for clients?
Pavlovich:
Sales methods. Okay, how to do it? There you need to fiddle with it a little. There you did everything, found the drop and opened it. Now you have an act ready for sale. Where to look for clients?
Fraudster:
Interesting question. For example, there are chats specifically tailored for people to go there and want to find some kind of account. That is, you post ads in these chats. There are betters' chats.
Pavlovich:
But how effective is it?
Fraudster:
Quite effective. At first I only did it there, I still post ads there, and people write. It's just not that you know many people. But they still write, there are those who are interested. There are also some betters' chats. That's a huge community, you can advertise there. That is, they always need banks that will work somehow with bookmakers. Just advertising, like in any other business, you need to do advertising. I created my own channel. And already like... I created a kind of theme, I have my own store, I post the banks in stock there, which I have.
And this, I think, also helped at the initial stages.
Pavlovich:
But this was probably not the initial stage for you, but already such later ones.
Fraudster:
Well, yes, this is halfway there. That is, so that you have a client, he bought you, he stayed with you, he subscribed and sees that you have some new bank. If he was interested in it, he wrote to you. But still, the main method is advertising. And, of course, we shouldn't forget about forums. It's a huge area where... Are they still alive? Well, of course, they are alive. I can even tell you why they are alive. When a person goes to a forum, he sees that people already have some kind of deposit.
That's why most of the people who are there already have cash. There is little scam there. Because, well, how can you scam if you have a deposit. It's already some kind of responsibility.
Pavlovich:
But they still scam for an amount tens of times greater than the deposit. You have a deposit of a million, and you scam for ten. That's all.
Fraudster:
Of course, there's no escape from it. That is, such situations also happen, of course. Well, if you take Telegram, there is 90% air from the scam. That is, these 10% you need to find real clients, those people who are really doing business, and they will work with you. On the forums, if you go there, there are practically... That is, 90% will be guys who really work, and 10% there, who are trying to somehow deceive, to do something like that.
Pavlovich:
That is, on the contrary, there are 90% scams on Telegram, and 10% on forums.
Scammer:
Something like that. It's just that Telegram has a huge traffic, and on forums the traffic is not so strong. But still, you shouldn't forget about them. For example, we have a thread on the VVH forum. It's called "Bank Bro Service". Here in the bank accounts tab, you can find us on such pies.
Pavlovich:
So what can you say about the reputation of VLH itself?
Scammer:
It has a very good forum. It suits me completely. The forum has been operating for a long time. The forum is good. It has a reputation. If you take, for example, the Drakmoney forum, I no longer advertise there, because it seems to me that the focus there is more focused on working in the CIS. We don't touch the CIS at all, we don't work in the CIS. That is, there are more foreign clients on VVH and so on.
Pavlovich:
If you needed to find droppers tomorrow, I don’t know, for the opening of Tinkoff, where would you look for them?
Fraudster:
If I needed to find them, I would probably look for them through some of my acquaintances, first of all, and not on the Internet. But, again, I repeat, we do not work in the CIS.
Pavlovich:
You would find 10 through your acquaintances, figuratively speaking, but tomorrow you received an order from me, for example, you need 100 Tinkoffs. Now, if there is a large order, a large quantity, you physically will not be able to cover this through the sex of your acquaintances.
Fraudster:
In principle, we have good droppers in our city. So you can find them that way. But if we are talking specifically about the situation, if you take a person who does not have connections, where you can get droppers, you can also, again, take an advertisement on Telegram, but you will collect very bad traffic there. These will be people who... I would not sell such cards from people on Telegram. Because, well, there's a good chance you'll just get scammed.
Pavlovich:
There will be a lot of problems with them, right?
Fraudster:
Of course. If you can already, have access and know about forums like Dark Money, you can, like, post ads there, the traffic will be better there, maybe you'll get in touch with some dropshipper. It's best to get in touch with some dropshipper so that you work with one person, and in case of problems you contact him, and he solves them. I'd rather look for dropshippers on Dark Money.
About the legality of the activity
Pavlovich:
And what do you think in general about the legality of this activity?
Fraudster:
I think there's nothing good about it, of course, but following the rules, not working where I live, I think they'll only be interested in me when there, if such a moment comes, when the amount has already gone beyond reasonable limits, well, so far this hasn't happened and it's working quietly.
About the marginality of the business
Pavlovich:
The marginality of the business?
Fraudster:
The marginality is very high.
Pavlovich:
On crypto exchanges, let's talk about crypto exchanges separately, on bank accounts, on FZs and on legal entities.
Fraudster:
On crypto exchanges, the marginality is 50 percent. That is, you gave a drop 50 dollars, sold for 100. But still, you must admit, it's not bad. 50 dollars, 5 thousand rubles.
Pavlovich:
They only corrupted on volume.
Fraudster:
Yes, of course, if only on the volume. If we talk about banks, then this is more of a marginal topic, because, for example, I inserted a bank into the Samsung verification system. I pay 35-50 dollars for Samsung in a drop. Samsung passes... There you go into it, and you have a whole list of European countries, citizens of which can pass verification. For example, there is some neobank, they inserted the Samsung verifier into it, and it connected with BETka.
There are many virtual cards, and they, for example, deposit BET-365. That is, there is a demand for this account. You can sell such a bank for about 200 dollars. Having paid about forty bucks. The marginality is excellent. Well, there, let's say, 200 percent. 200-300. The drop, when SAP itself passes, he is unlikely to go there to restore anything. You can even just send him a link to verification, he won’t know where he’s going through verification and why.
Pavlovich:
Ah, that is, he won’t know.
Fraudster:
Yes, there are times when you can send him a link directly. It’s just not possible to do this everywhere. In some situations, he’ll have to log into his personal account himself and go through verification there.
Pavlovich:
And with legal entities?
Fraudster:
With legal entities, it’s just sex. It’s a very marginal business. For example, you spend $0 to open a company. You pay a drop there, say, $100. Ah, $100 for verification. That is, I’ll get $100 for verification. For example, if you also pay the card acceptor. If you go to a bank where you need to accept a card. That is, your costs will be, for example, $200. You can create a bank that will cost $1,000.
Just great. That is, up to 400%.
Pavlovich:
But it’s all dirty. And if we throw out the costs of advertising, the team, and so on, how much does it eat up from the budget?
Fraudster:
Not much at all. It doesn't eat up anything for me at all. I don't really buy advertising anywhere now. That's it, I've built up my own client base. I have clients with whom I work constantly. So nothing goes on advertising at all. These expenses for drops, well, they're mediocre, roughly speaking. You get a lot more money than you spend.
Pavlovich:
Well, I thought you simply paid them a lot more.
Fraudster:
Many people think so. I just found people who are ready to even open companies for themselves for a small amount.
Pavlovich:
And how do you communicate with them?
Fraudster:
You can even communicate with Latvians directly in Russian. Many of them understand Russian. If you go to other countries, then they have some basic English, and that's enough. I've always had problems with English, but it's enough for me to explain what I need. There, it's more about the language of money. You just say how much you'll pay and everything needs to be done.
Pavlovich:
And when you talk to the same Balts in Russian, do they have any negativity now? No. Maybe they block you right away? Absolutely not.
Fraudster:
It doesn't. By the way, I haven't encountered that. Even some Ukrainians for some reason don't have any negativity. But this is just the kind of sphere you know, you won't encounter much negativity on political grounds here.
About funny cases
Pavlovich:
Have there been any funny cases during your work? Tell me an interesting story.
Fraudster:
A funny case. I've only had sad cases, when you wake up, you have... Something happened here somewhere, something happened there, and you need to solve these problems. Well, this is just working with people, you can't get away from it. Something was restored somewhere, money was stolen here, something happened to the bank there, and so on. You just need to resolve these issues in time. That's all. But I almost remembered some funny cases.
Well, of course, there were cases when I simply send the drop to verification via a link, and he simply can't pass it on the sixth try. Of course, it burns him out, but all the same, it's like I'm more interested in this than he is. I have to make a link and send it to him again.
Pavlovich:
So why can't he pass?
Fraudster:
First of all, when passing verification, you need to be in the room at least alone. So that there is no one in the background, and so on. You need at least a clean document. There are drops, who just, it's like they caught them off the street, and they have an incomprehensible document all torn up, and they take pictures of themselves there, I don't know what they're talking about, that they don't understand shit. I just don't understand how you can just take a photo of a document and a photo of your face, and a person can't do it on the sixth try. Well, that's how things happen.
Pavlovich:
I recently had a funny case. I make a transfer on one crypto exchange, well, not a big one, but a big one, like, seven thousand dollars. I do it, and they knock me out for verification. Your account is not verified, go through. Well, I go through, I go through once, twice, three times, well, I seem to go through, that's it, yes, but then a refusal comes. Go through, go through. I'm already tired of going through. Only then did I remember that the account is in my wife's name.
And they, in general, see that, well, the face is male, that something is wrong here. And I, well, accidentally remembered, yes, well, I just couldn’t make a transfer. Well, in short, I tried something for a couple of days. Well, and then my wife, of course, quickly went through the first time, well, that’s how it is for me.
Fraudster:
Okay, they didn’t block the account.
Pavlovich:
But could they? Well, of course. Probably. Of course, well, could they. Oh, well, like some guy got access to a woman’s account, right?
Fraudster:
Exactly.
Pavlovich:
Well, you can see a robot there, it doesn’t signal it, but the robot simply doesn’t signal that a person of the opposite sex is there. There, it’s probably just passed, didn’t pass, they have two triggers. I don’t think there are ten of them. And what do you say about this? Maybe you’ve encountered them? But now you’re doing these verifications, that is, you’re earning some money on them, yes, by the way, how much?
Fraudster:
I am happy with how much I earn.
How much does
Pavlovich earn:
Well, plus or minus, 3, 5, 10 thousand dollars. That is, what kind of figures, a range, what orders of magnitude?
Fraudster:
I can simply say that if a person without legal accounts works well, every day simply registering banks for drops, we will not take business banks, because the income there already increases very strongly, then any person can absolutely earn 100 thousand a week. That is, yes, well, a thousand bucks.
Pavlovich:
Well, in short, four thousand a month.
Fraudster:
Yes, you can do it. But you have to work for it. This is if you only take into account registrations for drops. If you connect such tools as drawings, firms, your income can already, well, reach millions a month. Well, it just depends on what the person will do.
Pavlovich:
And the drawings, we shot two of these, two issues with Kolya in Photoshop, I remember, once even a long time ago, at the start of the channel. You are doing this now, but probably, when you were in school, you imagined your life a little differently, what you dreamed of doing, to build some kind of career. What was that?
Fraudster:
In principle, I never dreamed of working a regular job. In general, I am grateful to God that I was somehow so lucky that I got into this field. And I really enjoy this work. And God forbid that I ever go back to work for hire. I just can’t anymore. You yourself understand, Sergey, that you worked in this field, and how can you go back to a regular job? It’s impossible.
Pavlovich:
Well, if the income level is normal, then why not? Or in your own business? I didn’t even mean working for hire. That is, maybe you wanted, I don’t know, to found your own startup, a company, a bank, for example.
Fraudster:
Or have you never dreamed about it? No, I haven't. But now the thoughts, of course, smoothly go away, yes, to buy a cutlet, and nothing in this world lasts forever. And the moment will come when everything will collapse. And now the goal is just to buy a cutlet, so that later I can do something with my life. Something else. Not in the darksphere.
What is
Pavlovich interested in?
What are you interested in?
Fraudster:
Well, for example, I like to travel. I really like to go somewhere. I just don't have much opportunity now. I like my job. I love it. I do mostly work. There is no sport in my life now, of course. Yes, in principle, even so. I like to eat. Delicious food. I like to smoke. Well, such interests, you know, simple ones.
Pavlovich:
To drink. I love women.
Fraudster:
Well, yes, simple, human interests. I wouldn't say that I just have some kind of very interesting hobby. My hobby is my work. Well, that's what I do in my free time.
How much money do you need to be happy?
Pavlovich:
Have you ever thought about how much money you need to be happy? As you remember, in "The Golden Calf" I asked Ostap Shura, and he said, figuratively 6466.
Fraudster:
Sergey thought about it, well, and Literally before the beginning, before I started doing this, any amount would suit me. I thought there, oh, how great it would be if I had 50 thousand rubles now, I would be the happiest in the world. On New Year's Eve this year I thought there, oh, I wish I had a million now. That's just a dream. I set myself such a goal. Now I understand that it simply doesn't matter how much money you have, it will still not be enough. That is, they even... You shouldn't think about money as achieving some goal.
It's better to focus on developing your business or product. And there will always be little money anyway. That's why I wouldn't even name a specific amount now. Maybe I want to say 10 million. But what, will I ever get these 10 million, God willing? And they will not be enough. Dollars? 10 million rubles. And if there are also dollars, Sergey, well, God willing, God willing, I would not refuse.
Pavlovich:
10 million rubles, that’s nothing now, right? He’ll count one to one, that’s 100 thousand dollars. Okay.
Blitz
Pavlovich:
Blitz.
Pavlovich:
Work in the Russian or bourgeois world?
Fraudster:
Of course, abroad. Why work where you live?
Pavlovich:
Dark or legal business?
Fraudster:
Legal business after all. Well, if there’s an opportunity to go there.
Pavlovich:
Money or power?
Fraudster:
Power.
Pavlovich:
Work in a team or alone?
Fraudster:
In a team, definitely. In a team, yes. Right now, I literally worked alone until recently. And now we have two partners. And you simply increase your capabilities proportionally very strongly. That is, they learned something, you shared information. In this market, information is the most expensive, the most valuable. When you find out that now, for example, where many virtual cards can be issued, because of registration, there, drawing conditionally, this information can bring you a lot of money, that you will start registering this bank and selling quintas to your clients.
Working in a team, you need to develop faster and much more. This, of course, is a certain work in a team.
Pavlovich:
Live in Russia or abroad?
Fraudster:
Listen, well, since I have not lived abroad, I would like to try it, but I am sure that after living there for a year, I will still want to return to Russia. Because, well, and the mentality, it's already embedded in the head, how we communicate with people, how we live, relatives here, friends, and therefore in Russia.
Results
Pavlovich:
Well, here's such an interview, friends, write questions, what you encountered, what normal services, activations, SIM cards, maybe tried in the comments and in general everything that is connected with this market of opening accounts, betting. And write a comment and put a like. As always, hugs, bye.
Sergey Pavlovich talked to a masked guest who sells crypto exchange accounts and European bank accounts.
How crypto exchange accounts and bank accounts are registered in Europe, how droppers are searched for, who buys accounts and accounts and for what purpose, what difficulties there are, how much you can earn on this - this and much more in this topic.
Enjoy reading!
Contents:
- Introduction
- How to convince a drop
- How often do droppers try to steal an account?
- How to open an account for drop now
- About working with virtual numbers
- How to confuse a drop
- The further west you go, the more difficult it is
- About questions from the bank
- How long does the whole process take?
- The most popular banks for work
- How to search for drops
- How would the market rate it?
- Where to look for clients?
- About the legality of activities
- About business marginality
- About curious cases
- How much does he earn?
- What are your hobbies?
- How much money do you need to be happy?
- Blitz
- Results
Introduction
Pavlovich:
Hello, friends. Today we are filming about European bank accounts. Who makes them, how, why, why and for how much they can be sold or how they can be used in another way. Hello. Hello. The mask looks like a sheet. How did you even end up like this?
Fraudster:
Well, how did you end up like this is putting it bluntly. I am generally happy that I ended up like this. A year ago, I was working at a construction site. I had an industrial injury. I had no arm or leg, roughly speaking, I walked with a crutch.
Pavlovich:
Now I have them, they have grown back.
Fraudster:
Yes, they have all grown back. I returned to my provincial town. And by a lucky chance they offered me a job. They said it like this. Register European banks using drawn documents. They put me in an office. I sat there for a month or two. Basically, I bought out the topic. The office closed. I returned home and continued to develop it.
Pavlovich:
Why did it close?
Fraudster:
It didn't work at that moment. And then over time I realized that not all banks open to drawings, which have a stronger security system that does not allow drawings. And the question arose of how to find European drops. I began to study this topic and eventually found them.
Pavlovich:
Drops?
Fraudster:
Yes. I started registering for drops.
How does a drop convince
Pavlovich:
How do you convince drops that let's open with your data, everyone will have questions, if you drive some dirty money, I will be imprisoned, etc., etc. Well, of course.
Fraudster:
Of course, yes. But the dough solves the problem. After all, we pay them. More often than not, a drop is a person who, roughly speaking, does not even have money there to live on today. Therefore, an extra 50-100 dollars for them is a significant amount to open an account of some kind.
Pavlovich:
And how much do you pay to a European drop, for example?
Fraudster:
It's always different. For example, let's take a regular verification, the SamSub verifier. Are you familiar with it?
Pavlovich:
No.
Fraudster:
Well, this is the most popular verifier in Europe. A lot of banks and crypto exchanges use it. Verification of such a SamSub costs about 40-50 dollars. It's done very quickly. That is, a friend just logs in, scans his document, scans his face, that's it. If he is not in the block, the verification is passed.
Pavlovich:
Well, what is the verification for? I've only gone through verification on crypto exchanges and in bookmakers.
Fraudster:
Well, verification is needed to get an account, get some crypto exchange, get a bank for yourself. And then I put it up for sale.
How often do drops try to steal an account
Pavlovich:
Well, let's go from simple to complex: crypto exchanges, you register an account on a crypto exchange using his data.
Fraudster:
I take my number, my email and give them to him so that he can register using my data. Then he logs into the account, logs in, writes down all his data, and completes verification. I take this account for myself. Well, and before that, I ask for a photo of his documents and a screenshot of the application deletion so that he doesn't sit there. And that's it. Everything is elementary.
Pavlovich:
But he can still restore it.
Fraudster:
Of course. That is, this is a high-margin business, and, naturally, there are big risks here.
Pavlovich:
It's simple, I recently restored an account, knocked down the factor. They say, well, like, send a bunch of documents and that's it, but in principle, this is not a problem. This is not a problem. And how often do drops then get into these accounts and try to scam, withdraw the money that is there?
Fraudster:
Quite often. And in this theory, I think I'm lucky at the moment. I still have all this ahead of me, but the maximum damage was a thousand dollars, which was restored by the drop account and stole the money. I had to place it. I heard that my colleagues in the shop had much worse situations. And there is no escape from this. That is, the drop can hijack the account in any case.
Pavlovich:
Okay. Who needs such an unreliable account on the crypto exchange then?
Fraudster:
Well, how can I say unreliable? Because if in case of any problems... If, for example, look, this is how I work. I am fully responsible for the money in the account. If they were hijacked by my drop, I reimburse them. But if a blocking from the bank arrives, it is no longer my problem. I can only help with the blocking.
Pavlovich:
But if tomorrow I buy you an account, let's say, put my money there, I don't know, honest, dishonest, of any origin, yes, and a fraction steals my, I don't know, 300 thousand dollars, what then? Where will you get 300 thousand dollars to compensate me?
Fraudster:
So, well, look, 300 thousand dollars is such an amount that will be driven directly into a legal account, into a business bank, because an ordinary...
Pavlovich:
I'm not talking about a bank, I'm still talking about a crypto exchange.
Fraudster:
Well, in that case, I don't even know what to do, but I'll have to resolve this issue, or leave this business. And there is no other way.
Pavlovich:
Exit scam, in short.
Fraudster:
Because, well, how else? There is no other way. Either you resolve the issue, or that's it.
Pavlovich:
And it is impossible to insure yourself.
Fraudster:
Yes. The only option is, for example, to make a crypto exchange on the drawing. Then it will be done completely without the participation of the drop. He will not know. Yes. It will be very safe. But the thing is that not all crypto exchanges are made on the drawing.
Pavlovich:
Well, for example, who is not made on the drawing?
Fraudster:
Binance. Binance is not made? Binance can be made now using the deepfake method. But I am not yet well-versed in this topic. We are studying it. But, for example, you will never make it on the drawing. Well, it just won’t work. It won’t pass. Why? Because there is a Samsung verifier, and it burns out the drawings.
Pavlovich:
Okay. And how much is the account, for example, you made an account on the drop, Binance, for example, give me, how much can you sell it for?
Fraudster:
It depends on the case. If it is an ordinary one, for example, a European one, its price will be around 100-150 dollars. If it's some English, UKash on Binance, then, well, 150 and up. But Binance has such a price for it because it's like the main crypto exchange. I trust it the most.
Pavlovich:
Well, there's a lot of stomping in the world now. Yes. In second place, by the way, do you know which one? Coinbase. I just read it, but it's American. Most likely, the FBI, INB and CIA have direct access to it, most likely. But, nevertheless, their shares have given plus 140% in a year. So you have Coinbase. Good. 100-150 dollars, there, let's say, 150, the rest are less, right?
Fraudster:
Yes.
Pavlovich:
And is there any demand for them at all?
Fraudster:
Specifically, there's little demand for crypto exchanges. The main demand is for banks. And cards? And cards, respectively. Well, banks have cards. Naturally, if people need cards, they buy a bank. Well, yes. I don't sell cards separately.
How to open an account on a drop now
Pavlovich:
How to open an account on a European drop now in 2025?
Fraudster:
From the very beginning. This is how the mechanics of my work happen. Then I get some virtual number, or I register it on my FIS number, on some English SIM card, and so on. But it is best for sale, so that you can then easily transfer the account and do it on a virtual number. I buy a virtual number, make my own mail, give this data to the drop, agree with him on payment, how much I will pay him for this action. Then he simply registers with a bank or a crypto exchange using my data, goes through verification.
When I see that it is successfully completed, I take photos of documents from him, a screenshot of the application deletion, so that he does not sit there and does not see anything that is happening on his account. That's it, all this is successfully completed, I pay for his account.
About working with virtual numbers
Pavlovich:
Virtual number for long-term rent or what?
Fraudster:
Yes.
Pavlovich:
It's just that there's SMS-activate, if you take, yes, the link, for example, is under the video. There you can take it for a one-time SMS reception, Or you can, like, take it for several months, for three, then extend it. Do you mean for a long-term lease?
Fraudster:
Of course. It's just that activation is not suitable, because then, in order to use the bank, you need to receive SMS for card transactions, for example, to log in to the bank itself. So only for lease. The service is there. Okay.
Pavlovich:
But SMS-activate, online, SIM, now there are two services.
Fraudster:
SIM and SMS are a good service now. Hashed. Until recently, it was one of the best services. It's just that for some reason it blocked it now, it blocked all my accounts, and many banks flew. They blocked it without explaining the reason.
Pavlovich:
Well, that means it's no longer a normal service.
Fraudster:
It's no longer a normal service, yes.
Pavlovich:
Because with the same SMS-activate, Oleg was with us once or twice, he was filmed in our episodes, in principle, they won’t block me. I can call, say that they screwed me up, which is why my account was blocked. Well, in general, it’s not very good when just the SMS-activate service blocks you, all without explaining the reasons.
Fraudster:
SMS-activate, please make it so that numbers can be taken longer than a month, because this is a problem. If they make it so that numbers can be rented longer than a month, they would be priceless. I would only work with them.
Pavlovich:
Well, maybe, I think this is not only, probably, your wish. Maybe they have some reasons for this? Because what difference does it make to them? Even on GOC, yes, a person will pay and pay, yes, apparently, maybe some technical ones. Oleg, if you watch the episode, write why you only have it for a month. Well, okay. It's clear from the technical side.
How to confuse a drop
Pavlovich:
How to confuse a person so that he goes and opens a bank account for you in Europe?
Fraudster:
Now I don't have any problems with this at all. I don't know why. I've never even had such a problem. My drop doesn't care what I'm going to do with these accounts. Do you understand? It's just that a drop is initially a person who registers an account in his own name. He has some financial difficulties in any case. He has no choice. And he really wants to get an easy 50-100 dollars.
Pavlovich:
And how much do you pay him?
Fraudster:
Well, it depends on what kind of verification.
Pavlovich:
Well, like a bank, register it in your own name, open a bank, for example.
Fraudster:
Well, look. In his country, I mean. Yes, yes, yes, that's it. If we're talking about physical banks, which I don't like to work with. So what is a physical bank? It means that in the country where the drop is located, it has a physical branch of the bank. Such banks are restored just like that, with the snap of a finger. By calling the bank or if they contact the support service there. There are very big risks here, so I try not to register such banks. Or for overpriced ones, which I'm ready to take such a risk on myself.
I mainly work with neobanks. Neobanks are banks that do not have land-based offices, they work on the Internet.
Pavlovich:
Well, Vice, Revolut, something else.
Fraudster:
That's exactly what we try to work with. If, for example, Revolut is a good bank, many drops have already reregistered it, so the price for it will be higher. You can pay $100 for a revolution, a drop. He will make it for himself. It also depends on the country. For example, the sweetest place to find yourself drops is the Baltic countries. It just happened that way, I don't know why. Most likely, their standard of living is not that high. The drops just write to you there.
Give me a job, give me a job, let's do something, and so on. If we go closer...
Pavlovich:
In Lithuanian?
Fraudster:
Yes, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia. These are the main countries I work with.
The further west, the more expensive the drops are and the harder it is to find them. Take Telegram, there is 90% air from Kama. The market is alive, in general, a lot of deals are concluded. It doesn't matter how much money you have, it will still be little. With legal entities, it's just sex. It's a very marginal business.
The further west, the more difficult
Fraudster:
If you go further west, the further west, the more expensive the drops are, the harder it is to find them.
Conventionally, in the entire history of my work in the UK, I have not had a single drop from there. Either Latvians who live there, or Estonians who moved there to live. Or you open a bank there on some English drawing. But if it’s some kind of business account, then I just take a drop from the Baltics, open a company in England and open English business banks there.
Pavlovich:
But how much does it cost to open a company in England?
Fraudster:
I know how to open one for free.
Pavlovich:
But in general, there are overhead costs anyway?
Fraudster:
No. To open a company in England, you don’t need any money at all. It’s done online through the website.
Pavlovich:
Is this Company House something like that?
Fraudster:
I’ve never opened a “House” company there, even through it. There are many other services that allow you to open a company without any problems.
Pavlovich:
Well, I just opened it, my cost price was about 300 dollars. If you open it through a company somewhere, they charge a grand, plus they charge about a thousand or maybe even more than a dollar a year for its maintenance, for giving you the denomination drops and for all that accounting crap.
Fraudster:
Of course, they push their services.
Pavlovich:
Yes, this whole thing costs several thousand dollars a year. And I opened it myself, it cost me 300 dollars. But the problem, as far as I remember, was this, the address. That is, the address at which it will be registered. That is, the residence address, so to speak.
Fraudster:
After the interview, I can show you where you can open it for free.
Pavlovich:
Well, okay. You open it, let's say, to the same Latysh, right? That is, what is the legal address in this case?
Fraudster:
It will be an address in England. It can be made directly to the address of the receiver in England. A receiver is a person in England who earns his living by accepting envelopes, accepting cards to his addresses. For example, some business banks are opened under the card acceptance mechanism, and then, when you enter the bank, you have to enter all the card data or some code from the envelope. That is, you can just take the address from the receiver right away, agree with him on the terms that you will pay them so much for the envelope, plus throw in some money for the fact that you are, roughly speaking, opening a company to his address.
And that's it. You just write this address later during the process of opening the company. There are no problems.
Pavlovich:
It is better to open a company in England. It's just, well, I have opened there in other European countries now. Well, there are certain difficulties. You still have to pay for the drop. One company there provided me with a drop, opened it. Well, it doesn't cost as much money as in England, there, a few thousand dollars a year, but cheaper.
But still, probably dollars for a drop, for an address and for such minimal accounting services, probably six hundred euros, probably, at least a year I pay.
Fraudster:
Well, in England I open a company for free and do not pay anything for it. I have never opened a company in Europe, so I am not competent in this matter.
Pavlovich:
Well, okay, we opened a company in England, and we open a business Revolute, for example, yes, or a business Vice.
Fraudster:
We open the process of creating a business bank in general, for example, using Vice as an example. Vice is the simplest bank for us that can be opened for your company. It opens in no time. They do not have any questions. The only thing is that they ask to pay a commission of 45 pounds for opening your account. Well, the chance that you, even for your company, which you just opened, the chance that this Vice will be opened for you, is almost 90%.
No documents need to be forged. Nothing needs to be drawn. Just upload the company, upload the director's documents. You don't even need a selfie. Even the director will never know that this Vice was made in his name.
About questions from
Pavlovich Bank:
Well, I have this Vice, I have two Vice. You see, one business profile, one personal. And I had a problem with my business, in general, they blocked one of them, well, they didn't block it, but they suspended it a little, they started sending me letters that you, please, provide where you got the money for the company and so
on, and in general your income, expenses, but this was resolved by me asking in ChatGPT, I say generate me a loan agreement and that's it, and it turns out that it generated a loan agreement and we wrote to Vice that this money that comes here, this is the founder of the company contributing his personal funds to the company for all sorts of current operational needs. And it may be not only the founder's personal money, but also third parties'.
But this all goes according to loan agreement number one, let's say. Here. And they left you alone after that, yes. Very clever. It just happened.
Fraudster:
For example, if questions arise on legal accounts, where the money came from, you can provide them with an invoice. An invoice is like...
Pavlovich:
Well, you sold, I don't know, 10 phones or the best electronic product, like some antivirus software, or made a website for them.
Fraudster:
Yes. This is a document, it's very easy to make. Well, literally in 10 minutes. You make it and send it to them. Like, here, I report to you on this money. Elementary.
Pavlovich:
And that's it, right?
Fraudster:
Yes. It may not always work out that way. Depending on where the money came from.
Pavlovich:
Binance just asked me, he said, explain your income to the exchange in general. Something like we'll give you a month. I have a couple of days left there, I need to explain, sit down. I don’t know, crypto exchanges, what difference does it make to them, the money coming in there is clean, not sanctioned at all, not from Dark, nothing at all, not from Dragstore, especially. Well, I don’t know, they’ve picked on something. European account. Okay, that’s clear. Company, Vice, Revolute.
How long does the whole process take
? Pavlovich:
And how long does the whole process take? If tomorrow I asked you, for example, to open an office in England for me and a Vice business, for example.
Fraudster:
If it’s an office and a Vice business, it will take a week maximum. Because the process of creating a company needs to be set aside another four days, because it will be opened and so on. The Vice business itself can be done in about three hours.
Pavlovich:
Okay, that means we’ll do it in a week. Sure. And Revolute?
Fraudster:
Here I can’t even give a specific deadline, because it may be that I’ll set up a company, draw a website, and everyone will do it. And why do I need a website? Well, a website so that your company is more confident. So that when they check it, they’ll see that the company has a website.
Pavlovich:
Will Revolute check it or who?
Fraudster:
Of course. Well, if you have a website, the company, then it looks more serious, you must admit. Again, I can’t give an exact deadline, because everything will look beautiful, but they simply won’t approve of me. Because, for example, the company “Svezhak”. They didn’t like the company, maybe they didn’t like its activity. A good activity for opening accounts is resale here, some architects, some charitable foundations. All this is good for opening business accounts.
Pavlovich:
But do you indicate these OKVD areas of the company’s activity in England?
Fraudster:
Yes, of course.
Pavlovich:
I just don’t remember anymore.
Fraudster:
Of course, you need to specify. I mainly open for retail, like, resale.
Pavlovich:
So, Revolute checks everything like that, right?
Fraudster:
Yes, they have a good system.
Pavlovich:
Vice just opens it without any problems.
Fraudster:
Yes, Vice just opens it. Revolute, a more serious security system. There are banks that are really hard to open. For example, AirValex or Vamo Business, they will ask you for photos of your goods, invoices, and again these checks, Statements from business banks that you already have as proof of a business address, that the company is engaged in some kind of activity.
They ask a lot of questions, and these questions need to be improvised, somehow answered, documents forged. So you need to draw? Yes, that's the kind of work. And again, you asked a question about the time frame for Revolute, I can't give them. Maybe you'll have to open three companies before it goes through. Can I tell you the cost?
Pavlovich:
Go ahead.
Fraudster:
The Revolute business for an English company is currently worth about a thousand dollars on the market. That is, if there is also an open merchant, then you can sell 100 coins for 1,300. What is a merchant? You mean... Well, an internal seller's account. That is, cards are already entered there and so on.
Pavlovich:
So that the guys can enter, sit, right? As one of the directions. And how long does such an account last if they start entering fake cards? Until charges fly. Well, that's a week maximum. Well, yes. Even a few days.
Fraudster:
Well, that's really dirty use. An account there won't last long.
Pavlovich:
No Stripe? We have demand.
Fraudster:
Stripe has a very good demand, a very good demand, well, because it is the basis, roughly speaking, through Stripe they withdraw via 2D, well, 2DS cards and a lot of people work through it to accept payments from clients via cards.
Pavlovich:
We just recently opened Stripe for ourselves in a European office, well, without any questions at all, without a hitch, without a hitch.
Fraudster:
After you ran the equal amount of 100 euros, you were asked to trust the director, right?
Pavlovich:
No, we haven’t run anything yet. We are just setting everything up in test mode, polishing the mappi. We haven’t run any money through it yet.
Fraudster:
Is the director in touch with you? Yes, it’s my wife. If you run a small amount, you will need to go through verification.
Pavlovich:
So it will ask for a strike?
Fraudster:
Yes. So the drop needs to be alive and in touch. The only nuance in the strike is that the market price is about 400-500 dollars, depending on who you buy from. Well, a little. Well, a little, yes. And registration is not difficult. They take a lot of time. The only thing is that you need to have the director in touch - go through additional certification, which the strike will request. I have a business in accounts, I do them for commercial purposes, for the purpose of further sale.
Pavlovich:
Well, that is, you earn on resale, you just have overhead costs, some for drops, for opening, for rendering, and then you need to sell them.
Fraudster:
Yes. Everything is in a legitimate business. Bought cheaper, sold more expensive. Here I wanted to say that what I like about business banks is that Drop is practically unable to restore it. That's the whole point. That's why I'm moving more in this direction now. Drop will not be able to restore it, even if he is the director, he will need documents, some companies, and so on. And that's why business accounts are much more reliable. That is, there are simply blockages here, perhaps.
That is why I really like the business banking theme now. And we continue to work on it.
The most popular banks for work
Pavlovich:
And what neobanks do you know?
Fraudster:
The most popular ones are Revolut, Vice, Aikart. Some kind of Bankera is a good bank. There are a lot of very virtual cards there. But there are a lot of them, in general, it doesn’t even immediately come to mind now.
Pavlovich:
Are these tens or hundreds around the world?
Fraudster:
Tens and only relevant ones that buy well. And there are hundreds of them. There are a lot of them. It's just that there is no demand for most of them. That's why banks are bought. There is such a client, a very good one, I love them very much, these are betters, those who are engaged in betting, forks. B365. Yes, exactly, and others. Bonus hunters, those who play off bonuses on these forks, they need withdrawals from these forks to the bookmaker's office to the banks.
These are just the sweetest such clients, they have enough money, I like their approach to work, and the bulk of clients come from there. That is, you need to find a bank that would somehow make a deposit on the bet, or withdraw it. If you found such a bank, register it and sell it, catch a coin. Or there are such guys as arbitrageurs.
They need cards, so that there are many cards, or many accounts, so that they link them to personal accounts, there, to some advertising ones, and then work off your bank. There are such clients as carders. That is, it has not gone away. They mainly buy some crypto exchanges where there is a card top-up. If you found such a crypto exchange that easily eats cards through 3DS, put it on stream and sell it.
Pavlovich:
But you need an SMS through 3DS.
Fraudster:
Well, yes, so there are systems there that allow you to get them. Or you made some kind of business bank, there is an internal merchant or something like that that allows you to write off a large number of cards through 2D.
Pavlovich:
That is, to scan other people's cards, like buyers.
Fraudster:
Well, yes, of course, these guys also have a lot of money, and they are also my clients.
Pavlovich:
So, in a year of construction, it turns out that you have built your own small drop service, figuratively speaking.
Fraudster:
Well, yes, a small drop service.
How to look for drops
Pavlovich:
You could say so. Search for drops. That's how I understand it, these chains, okay, there are companies and stuff, but you need to look for drops. When we were looking for clothing carding, we needed to send from the States, we ordered there, let's say, to a local address. We looked for them through ads, usually about finding a job. And usually they weren't even privy to the details. That is, you'll receive a parcel, you'll just get an invoice there or put in an invoice with a smaller amount and send it there, I don't know, to Ukraine, for example.
We searched the way you search.
Fraudster:
Thank you, Pasha Durov, Telegram. It's just that when I had such a question, where to find drops, I went to Telegram. I spent a lot of time there, found chats, some places where they could hang out.
Pavlovich:
With workers, essentially?
Fraudster:
No, not with workers, that's a separate market. There are people who sit in chats and do verifications on themselves. I just came across such chats.
Pavlovich:
So, they themselves directly offer me to become a drop? Yes. So, you don’t even have to look, there, confuse with all sorts of job offers, something else?
Fraudster:
Well, at the moment you don’t have to at all, because I already have my own chat with drops and so on, and, like, there are already permanent drops, where I... Ah, droppers. Well, the most important thing is to contact them. Found yourself a dropper, this person will bring you fifty people.
Pavlovich:
Well, how to find, if here, of course, we even filmed a dropper in the Russian Federation, there is no problem finding in the CIS. But I just can’t imagine how to look for a Western dropper. In Telegram chats.
Fraudster:
I just sat, spent time in these chats, looked for something new, looked for people who can do verifications. I went, so to speak, to my, roughly speaking, colleagues who are engaged in similar activities with me. Somehow, through them, I looked at what they were doing, looked at their chat, looked at what people were doing verifications there. I took these people for myself. These are the methods. Simply through the Internet, through Telegram, through communication.
How would you assess the market?
Pavlovich:
How would you assess the volume of the market for sold accounts of the same Vice, Revolute, all neobanks.
Fraudster:
Well, I would assess it as a very good market now.
Pavlovich:
No, I understand, but in terms of sold accounts, the count is in the thousands, there, sold per month, in the tens of thousands, in the hundreds of thousands.
Fraudster:
Look, I can explain it to you how. There is one grant, it is called Gross, and it already has somewhere around 30 thousand transactions. And it turns out that when I started this topic, it had 13 thousand transactions a year ago. That is, it is not difficult to calculate how many transactions took place in a year. This is only through it. A very stifling amount. This is only through one grant, and there are many grants. Therefore, the market is alive.
In general, a lot of transactions are concluded. These banks are needed by many people.
Where to look for clients?
Pavlovich:
Sales methods. Okay, how to do it? There you need to fiddle with it a little. There you did everything, found the drop and opened it. Now you have an act ready for sale. Where to look for clients?
Fraudster:
Interesting question. For example, there are chats specifically tailored for people to go there and want to find some kind of account. That is, you post ads in these chats. There are betters' chats.
Pavlovich:
But how effective is it?
Fraudster:
Quite effective. At first I only did it there, I still post ads there, and people write. It's just not that you know many people. But they still write, there are those who are interested. There are also some betters' chats. That's a huge community, you can advertise there. That is, they always need banks that will work somehow with bookmakers. Just advertising, like in any other business, you need to do advertising. I created my own channel. And already like... I created a kind of theme, I have my own store, I post the banks in stock there, which I have.
And this, I think, also helped at the initial stages.
Pavlovich:
But this was probably not the initial stage for you, but already such later ones.
Fraudster:
Well, yes, this is halfway there. That is, so that you have a client, he bought you, he stayed with you, he subscribed and sees that you have some new bank. If he was interested in it, he wrote to you. But still, the main method is advertising. And, of course, we shouldn't forget about forums. It's a huge area where... Are they still alive? Well, of course, they are alive. I can even tell you why they are alive. When a person goes to a forum, he sees that people already have some kind of deposit.
That's why most of the people who are there already have cash. There is little scam there. Because, well, how can you scam if you have a deposit. It's already some kind of responsibility.
Pavlovich:
But they still scam for an amount tens of times greater than the deposit. You have a deposit of a million, and you scam for ten. That's all.
Fraudster:
Of course, there's no escape from it. That is, such situations also happen, of course. Well, if you take Telegram, there is 90% air from the scam. That is, these 10% you need to find real clients, those people who are really doing business, and they will work with you. On the forums, if you go there, there are practically... That is, 90% will be guys who really work, and 10% there, who are trying to somehow deceive, to do something like that.
Pavlovich:
That is, on the contrary, there are 90% scams on Telegram, and 10% on forums.
Scammer:
Something like that. It's just that Telegram has a huge traffic, and on forums the traffic is not so strong. But still, you shouldn't forget about them. For example, we have a thread on the VVH forum. It's called "Bank Bro Service". Here in the bank accounts tab, you can find us on such pies.
Pavlovich:
So what can you say about the reputation of VLH itself?
Scammer:
It has a very good forum. It suits me completely. The forum has been operating for a long time. The forum is good. It has a reputation. If you take, for example, the Drakmoney forum, I no longer advertise there, because it seems to me that the focus there is more focused on working in the CIS. We don't touch the CIS at all, we don't work in the CIS. That is, there are more foreign clients on VVH and so on.
Pavlovich:
If you needed to find droppers tomorrow, I don’t know, for the opening of Tinkoff, where would you look for them?
Fraudster:
If I needed to find them, I would probably look for them through some of my acquaintances, first of all, and not on the Internet. But, again, I repeat, we do not work in the CIS.
Pavlovich:
You would find 10 through your acquaintances, figuratively speaking, but tomorrow you received an order from me, for example, you need 100 Tinkoffs. Now, if there is a large order, a large quantity, you physically will not be able to cover this through the sex of your acquaintances.
Fraudster:
In principle, we have good droppers in our city. So you can find them that way. But if we are talking specifically about the situation, if you take a person who does not have connections, where you can get droppers, you can also, again, take an advertisement on Telegram, but you will collect very bad traffic there. These will be people who... I would not sell such cards from people on Telegram. Because, well, there's a good chance you'll just get scammed.
Pavlovich:
There will be a lot of problems with them, right?
Fraudster:
Of course. If you can already, have access and know about forums like Dark Money, you can, like, post ads there, the traffic will be better there, maybe you'll get in touch with some dropshipper. It's best to get in touch with some dropshipper so that you work with one person, and in case of problems you contact him, and he solves them. I'd rather look for dropshippers on Dark Money.
About the legality of the activity
Pavlovich:
And what do you think in general about the legality of this activity?
Fraudster:
I think there's nothing good about it, of course, but following the rules, not working where I live, I think they'll only be interested in me when there, if such a moment comes, when the amount has already gone beyond reasonable limits, well, so far this hasn't happened and it's working quietly.
About the marginality of the business
Pavlovich:
The marginality of the business?
Fraudster:
The marginality is very high.
Pavlovich:
On crypto exchanges, let's talk about crypto exchanges separately, on bank accounts, on FZs and on legal entities.
Fraudster:
On crypto exchanges, the marginality is 50 percent. That is, you gave a drop 50 dollars, sold for 100. But still, you must admit, it's not bad. 50 dollars, 5 thousand rubles.
Pavlovich:
They only corrupted on volume.
Fraudster:
Yes, of course, if only on the volume. If we talk about banks, then this is more of a marginal topic, because, for example, I inserted a bank into the Samsung verification system. I pay 35-50 dollars for Samsung in a drop. Samsung passes... There you go into it, and you have a whole list of European countries, citizens of which can pass verification. For example, there is some neobank, they inserted the Samsung verifier into it, and it connected with BETka.
There are many virtual cards, and they, for example, deposit BET-365. That is, there is a demand for this account. You can sell such a bank for about 200 dollars. Having paid about forty bucks. The marginality is excellent. Well, there, let's say, 200 percent. 200-300. The drop, when SAP itself passes, he is unlikely to go there to restore anything. You can even just send him a link to verification, he won’t know where he’s going through verification and why.
Pavlovich:
Ah, that is, he won’t know.
Fraudster:
Yes, there are times when you can send him a link directly. It’s just not possible to do this everywhere. In some situations, he’ll have to log into his personal account himself and go through verification there.
Pavlovich:
And with legal entities?
Fraudster:
With legal entities, it’s just sex. It’s a very marginal business. For example, you spend $0 to open a company. You pay a drop there, say, $100. Ah, $100 for verification. That is, I’ll get $100 for verification. For example, if you also pay the card acceptor. If you go to a bank where you need to accept a card. That is, your costs will be, for example, $200. You can create a bank that will cost $1,000.
Just great. That is, up to 400%.
Pavlovich:
But it’s all dirty. And if we throw out the costs of advertising, the team, and so on, how much does it eat up from the budget?
Fraudster:
Not much at all. It doesn't eat up anything for me at all. I don't really buy advertising anywhere now. That's it, I've built up my own client base. I have clients with whom I work constantly. So nothing goes on advertising at all. These expenses for drops, well, they're mediocre, roughly speaking. You get a lot more money than you spend.
Pavlovich:
Well, I thought you simply paid them a lot more.
Fraudster:
Many people think so. I just found people who are ready to even open companies for themselves for a small amount.
Pavlovich:
And how do you communicate with them?
Fraudster:
You can even communicate with Latvians directly in Russian. Many of them understand Russian. If you go to other countries, then they have some basic English, and that's enough. I've always had problems with English, but it's enough for me to explain what I need. There, it's more about the language of money. You just say how much you'll pay and everything needs to be done.
Pavlovich:
And when you talk to the same Balts in Russian, do they have any negativity now? No. Maybe they block you right away? Absolutely not.
Fraudster:
It doesn't. By the way, I haven't encountered that. Even some Ukrainians for some reason don't have any negativity. But this is just the kind of sphere you know, you won't encounter much negativity on political grounds here.
About funny cases
Pavlovich:
Have there been any funny cases during your work? Tell me an interesting story.
Fraudster:
A funny case. I've only had sad cases, when you wake up, you have... Something happened here somewhere, something happened there, and you need to solve these problems. Well, this is just working with people, you can't get away from it. Something was restored somewhere, money was stolen here, something happened to the bank there, and so on. You just need to resolve these issues in time. That's all. But I almost remembered some funny cases.
Well, of course, there were cases when I simply send the drop to verification via a link, and he simply can't pass it on the sixth try. Of course, it burns him out, but all the same, it's like I'm more interested in this than he is. I have to make a link and send it to him again.
Pavlovich:
So why can't he pass?
Fraudster:
First of all, when passing verification, you need to be in the room at least alone. So that there is no one in the background, and so on. You need at least a clean document. There are drops, who just, it's like they caught them off the street, and they have an incomprehensible document all torn up, and they take pictures of themselves there, I don't know what they're talking about, that they don't understand shit. I just don't understand how you can just take a photo of a document and a photo of your face, and a person can't do it on the sixth try. Well, that's how things happen.
Pavlovich:
I recently had a funny case. I make a transfer on one crypto exchange, well, not a big one, but a big one, like, seven thousand dollars. I do it, and they knock me out for verification. Your account is not verified, go through. Well, I go through, I go through once, twice, three times, well, I seem to go through, that's it, yes, but then a refusal comes. Go through, go through. I'm already tired of going through. Only then did I remember that the account is in my wife's name.
And they, in general, see that, well, the face is male, that something is wrong here. And I, well, accidentally remembered, yes, well, I just couldn’t make a transfer. Well, in short, I tried something for a couple of days. Well, and then my wife, of course, quickly went through the first time, well, that’s how it is for me.
Fraudster:
Okay, they didn’t block the account.
Pavlovich:
But could they? Well, of course. Probably. Of course, well, could they. Oh, well, like some guy got access to a woman’s account, right?
Fraudster:
Exactly.
Pavlovich:
Well, you can see a robot there, it doesn’t signal it, but the robot simply doesn’t signal that a person of the opposite sex is there. There, it’s probably just passed, didn’t pass, they have two triggers. I don’t think there are ten of them. And what do you say about this? Maybe you’ve encountered them? But now you’re doing these verifications, that is, you’re earning some money on them, yes, by the way, how much?
Fraudster:
I am happy with how much I earn.
How much does
Pavlovich earn:
Well, plus or minus, 3, 5, 10 thousand dollars. That is, what kind of figures, a range, what orders of magnitude?
Fraudster:
I can simply say that if a person without legal accounts works well, every day simply registering banks for drops, we will not take business banks, because the income there already increases very strongly, then any person can absolutely earn 100 thousand a week. That is, yes, well, a thousand bucks.
Pavlovich:
Well, in short, four thousand a month.
Fraudster:
Yes, you can do it. But you have to work for it. This is if you only take into account registrations for drops. If you connect such tools as drawings, firms, your income can already, well, reach millions a month. Well, it just depends on what the person will do.
Pavlovich:
And the drawings, we shot two of these, two issues with Kolya in Photoshop, I remember, once even a long time ago, at the start of the channel. You are doing this now, but probably, when you were in school, you imagined your life a little differently, what you dreamed of doing, to build some kind of career. What was that?
Fraudster:
In principle, I never dreamed of working a regular job. In general, I am grateful to God that I was somehow so lucky that I got into this field. And I really enjoy this work. And God forbid that I ever go back to work for hire. I just can’t anymore. You yourself understand, Sergey, that you worked in this field, and how can you go back to a regular job? It’s impossible.
Pavlovich:
Well, if the income level is normal, then why not? Or in your own business? I didn’t even mean working for hire. That is, maybe you wanted, I don’t know, to found your own startup, a company, a bank, for example.
Fraudster:
Or have you never dreamed about it? No, I haven't. But now the thoughts, of course, smoothly go away, yes, to buy a cutlet, and nothing in this world lasts forever. And the moment will come when everything will collapse. And now the goal is just to buy a cutlet, so that later I can do something with my life. Something else. Not in the darksphere.
What is
Pavlovich interested in?
What are you interested in?
Fraudster:
Well, for example, I like to travel. I really like to go somewhere. I just don't have much opportunity now. I like my job. I love it. I do mostly work. There is no sport in my life now, of course. Yes, in principle, even so. I like to eat. Delicious food. I like to smoke. Well, such interests, you know, simple ones.
Pavlovich:
To drink. I love women.
Fraudster:
Well, yes, simple, human interests. I wouldn't say that I just have some kind of very interesting hobby. My hobby is my work. Well, that's what I do in my free time.
How much money do you need to be happy?
Pavlovich:
Have you ever thought about how much money you need to be happy? As you remember, in "The Golden Calf" I asked Ostap Shura, and he said, figuratively 6466.
Fraudster:
Sergey thought about it, well, and Literally before the beginning, before I started doing this, any amount would suit me. I thought there, oh, how great it would be if I had 50 thousand rubles now, I would be the happiest in the world. On New Year's Eve this year I thought there, oh, I wish I had a million now. That's just a dream. I set myself such a goal. Now I understand that it simply doesn't matter how much money you have, it will still not be enough. That is, they even... You shouldn't think about money as achieving some goal.
It's better to focus on developing your business or product. And there will always be little money anyway. That's why I wouldn't even name a specific amount now. Maybe I want to say 10 million. But what, will I ever get these 10 million, God willing? And they will not be enough. Dollars? 10 million rubles. And if there are also dollars, Sergey, well, God willing, God willing, I would not refuse.
Pavlovich:
10 million rubles, that’s nothing now, right? He’ll count one to one, that’s 100 thousand dollars. Okay.
Blitz
Pavlovich:
Blitz.
Pavlovich:
Work in the Russian or bourgeois world?
Fraudster:
Of course, abroad. Why work where you live?
Pavlovich:
Dark or legal business?
Fraudster:
Legal business after all. Well, if there’s an opportunity to go there.
Pavlovich:
Money or power?
Fraudster:
Power.
Pavlovich:
Work in a team or alone?
Fraudster:
In a team, definitely. In a team, yes. Right now, I literally worked alone until recently. And now we have two partners. And you simply increase your capabilities proportionally very strongly. That is, they learned something, you shared information. In this market, information is the most expensive, the most valuable. When you find out that now, for example, where many virtual cards can be issued, because of registration, there, drawing conditionally, this information can bring you a lot of money, that you will start registering this bank and selling quintas to your clients.
Working in a team, you need to develop faster and much more. This, of course, is a certain work in a team.
Pavlovich:
Live in Russia or abroad?
Fraudster:
Listen, well, since I have not lived abroad, I would like to try it, but I am sure that after living there for a year, I will still want to return to Russia. Because, well, and the mentality, it's already embedded in the head, how we communicate with people, how we live, relatives here, friends, and therefore in Russia.
Results
Pavlovich:
Well, here's such an interview, friends, write questions, what you encountered, what normal services, activations, SIM cards, maybe tried in the comments and in general everything that is connected with this market of opening accounts, betting. And write a comment and put a like. As always, hugs, bye.
